NPR

vball wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:15 am We replaced open fire with a stove when we moved into our Highland Croft 15 years ago. Some stats like an open fire 20% of heat goes into the room and 80% up the chimney. With a stove it is other way around. You really only need a small stove as they really do put out a lot of heat, especially when the cast iron gets hot. We are lucky as we have lots of trees on our land but have gone back to purely coal. Mixing logs and coal really does make the chimney dirty.

As for it being environmentally unfriendly, the oil we burn in the heating system might also be seen as not being particularly good. We get the oil wagon up here every 6 months or so.

What is the thought on burning serfs? This is surely environmentally friendly as it decreases the world's population.

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:47 pm

vball wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:15 am We replaced open fire with a stove when we moved into our Highland Croft 15 years ago. Some stats like an open fire 20% of heat goes into the room and 80% up the chimney. With a stove it is other way around. You really only need a small stove as they really do put out a lot of heat, especially when the cast iron gets hot. We are lucky as we have lots of trees on our land but have gone back to purely coal. Mixing logs and coal really does make the chimney dirty.

As for it being environmentally unfriendly, the oil we burn in the heating system might also be seen as not being particularly good. We get the oil wagon up here every 6 months or so.

What is the thought on burning serfs? This is surely environmentally friendly as it decreases the world's population.

We will easily get through a large basket of logs in a evening, in just a few hours, on our open fire.. My daughter's stove will use less than that in a whole day ! TBH, we've only, really, used the open fire as a nice cosy centrepiece on a cold winter's day - it's not a great way of heating the room.

Our new stove is a Charnwood Aire 5 - so 5KW - cost about £1.4K

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:11 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:47 pm

vball wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:15 am We replaced open fire with a stove when we moved into our Highland Croft 15 years ago. Some stats like an open fire 20% of heat goes into the room and 80% up the chimney. With a stove it is other way around. You really only need a small stove as they really do put out a lot of heat, especially when the cast iron gets hot. We are lucky as we have lots of trees on our land but have gone back to purely coal. Mixing logs and coal really does make the chimney dirty.

As for it being environmentally unfriendly, the oil we burn in the heating system might also be seen as not being particularly good. We get the oil wagon up here every 6 months or so.

What is the thought on burning serfs? This is surely environmentally friendly as it decreases the world's population.

We will easily get through a large basket of logs in a evening, in just a few hours, on our open fire.. My daughter's stove will use less than that in a whole day ! TBH, we've only, really, used the open fire as a nice cosy centrepiece on a cold winter's day - it's not a great way of heating the room.

Our new stove is a Charnwood Aire 5 - so 5KW - cost about £1.4K

Open fires are a complete disaster; as already said, 80%+ of the energy goes right up the chimney, & because they're so inefficient, they produce more pollution, because they don't consume the fuel, so they generate more particulates. You've almost zero conrol over the combustion process.

If you want to see the difference, get your chimney cleaned, & weight the soot removed; & then put in a proper modern stove, & do the same a year later, & learn how to set a proper fire.

The difference is astonishing.

I'd my chimney cleaned a couple of weeks ago, & burning just decently seasoned hardwood, produced feck all soot,& I wasn't at all surprised, because I knew I needed to re-learn how to set a fire, & what an efficient fire looked like; I'd been subconsciously trained that a smoldering, slow burning fire, was somehow best, when it's actually the worst.

The prime minister did not mention fixed deals in her statement.

Campaigners say the government should tell suppliers to allow people to switch without penalties, but it could end up being something customers have to negotiate. If you fixed within the last 14 days, you can cancel without charge.

LONDON, Aug 30 (Reuters) - Centrica's Rough gas storage site off England's east coast has received all the regulatory approvals to start storing gas again, Britain's oil and gas regulator said on Tuesday.

Countries across Europe have been building gas stocks ahead of winter to prepare for disruptions to supply of Russian gas, but Britain has had very little storage capacity since Rough's closure in 2018.

Britain's North Sea Transition Authority (NSTA) said it had granted the required approvals and consents to Centrica Offshore UK Limited for Phase 1 of the Rough gas storage site.

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Centrica's Chief Executive Chris O'Shea said last month the company was carrying out the necessary engineering work to enable the site to reopen. read more

It would be prepared to invest 2 billion pounds ($2.33 billion) in the project, he said.

The Rough site previously provided about 70% of Britain's gas storage capacity.

Had the site been open last winter, it could have saved households about 100 pounds on their annual energy bills, O'Shea said last month.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:37 pm Meanwhile for the sake of saving £75m per year in the last 5, they're now looking at spending up to £2 billion to reopen the gas storage they closed down! Great job Centrica...

LONDON, Aug 30 (Reuters) - Centrica's Rough gas storage site off England's east coast has received all the regulatory approvals to start storing gas again, Britain's oil and gas regulator said on Tuesday.

Countries across Europe have been building gas stocks ahead of winter to prepare for disruptions to supply of Russian gas, but Britain has had very little storage capacity since Rough's closure in 2018.

Britain's North Sea Transition Authority (NSTA) said it had granted the required approvals and consents to Centrica Offshore UK Limited for Phase 1 of the Rough gas storage site.

Register now for FREE unlimited access to Reuters.com
Centrica's Chief Executive Chris O'Shea said last month the company was carrying out the necessary engineering work to enable the site to reopen. read more

It would be prepared to invest 2 billion pounds ($2.33 billion) in the project, he said.

The Rough site previously provided about 70% of Britain's gas storage capacity.

Had the site been open last winter, it could have saved households about 100 pounds on their annual energy bills, O'Shea said last month.

If you’re on a standard variable tariff
The average unit price for dual fuel customers paying by direct debit will be limited to 34.0p/kWh for electricity and 10.3p/kWh for gas, inclusive of VAT, from 1 October.

These unit prices have been passed to suppliers to ensure that they are used to calculate bills on time for 1 October.

Energy suppliers will adjust standard variable tariffs automatically. Customers on standard variable tariffs do not need to take any action to get the benefits of this scheme.

If you’re on a fixed tariff
If you’re on a fixed tariff at a higher rate caused by recent energy price rises, your unit prices will be reduced by 17p/kWh for electricity and 4.2p/kWh for gas.

These unit prices have been passed to suppliers to ensure that they are used to calculate bills on time for 1 October.

Energy suppliers will adjust fixed tariffs automatically. Customers on fixed tariffs do not need to take any action to get the benefits of this scheme.

Standing charges
Average standing charges will remain in line with the levels set by Ofgem for the default tariff cap from 1 October, at 46p per day for electricity and 28p per day for gas, for a typical dual fuel customer paying by direct debit.

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:04 am

Glaston wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:35 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:37 pm Meanwhile for the sake of saving £75m per year in the last 5, they're now looking at spending up to £2 billion to reopen the gas storage they closed down! Great job Centrica...

Hindsight is wonderfull

The fossil fuel industry has been hugely volatile for years. Any prick with Internet access knew this.

“Project Discovery” was commissioned by Ofgem’s then-boss Alistair Buchanan to investigate how secure Britain’s gas supplies were. It made for startling reading.

Since the discovery of oil and gas in the North Sea in the 1960s, Britain had become increasingly dependent on the fuels, with most of its heating and a major chunk of electricity running on natural gas.

Yet with reserves getting tapped out and demand soaring, the supplies were no longer enough. In 2004, Britain became a net gas importer, a key shift that started to make officials jittery.

Calls were also growing for investment to overhaul the energy system and cut carbon emissions.

A crunch on gas supplies in 2006 when Rough was damaged by fire, and Russia’s closure of a pipeline to Ukraine in 2009 during a dispute, added to tensions.

Project Discovery warned of “unprecedented challenges, which will grow over the next two decades”, with Britain’s rising dependence on imports flagged as a key risk. More gas storage would potentially be needed by 2015, it said.
...
Being able to buy gas from Europe during a crisis wasn’t guaranteed, it added, as other member states might block exports.
...
On September 4, 2013, three months after his meeting with Stag, Fallon announced there would be no subsidies for gas storage facilities. He said the move would save bill-payers £750m over the next 10 years.

To make its case, the Government drew on analysis by the consultancy Redpoint, which ministers said had concluded that generally the “costs of intervention would far outweigh any benefit to security of supply”.

A partial finding that a new gas storage facility would have been of benefit, was glossed over. Ministers argued it would not be ready “until the 2020s”, when they expected gas supplies to be abundant.

Fallon added the UK’s storage capacity had already grown, and pointed to a further 12 projects in the pipeline. Two of them were Centrica’s proposed gas storage sites in the North Sea and East Yorkshire – Baird and Caythorpe.

Less than 10 days later, Centrica announced it was ditching the projects, blaming the Government’s decision to scrap support. Only one gas storage site now open was built after the announcement, according to Ofgem, Storengy’s Stublach in 2014.

The decision not to invest in storage infuriated heavy industrial gas users. They knew they were first in line for any cutoffs if supplies fell short, with households protected.
...
Decisions made in 2013 set the stage for what was to come. Centrica decided to shut Rough in 2017. The ageing facility was losing hundreds of millions of pounds and needed around £1bn and five years to refurbish. The Government did nothing to dissuade its owners from the closure.

Claire Perry, an energy minister from June 2017, told Labour in a letter that any state support for Rough would have “undermined” investment in other infrastructure such as LNG sites and smaller storage facilities, and risked making the market dependent on government support. Centrica had not asked for government support on upfront costs, she added.

One former senior civil servant says any support for Centrica may have required “strategic change and perhaps an admission that the earlier strategy was flawed”.
...
Sir Ed Davey, energy secretary in 2013 when the government decided not to subsidise gas storage, says Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014 should have changed the way Whitehall viewed the debate.

“It was getting clearer and clearer to me that we need to revisit the [storage] issue,” he says.

“It is an insurance policy for security of supplies. I was pretty surprised when the government didn’t work with Centrica.”

Was the decision not to invest in 2013 a mistake?

“When the facts change, I change my opinion, what do you do?”, he says.

“Unfortunately, the facts did change but the government didn’t change its mind. I can’t be responsible for those people. The underlying economics haven’t changed. What’s changed is the geopolitics.”

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:47 pm

vball wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:15 am We replaced open fire with a stove when we moved into our Highland Croft 15 years ago. Some stats like an open fire 20% of heat goes into the room and 80% up the chimney. With a stove it is other way around. You really only need a small stove as they really do put out a lot of heat, especially when the cast iron gets hot. We are lucky as we have lots of trees on our land but have gone back to purely coal. Mixing logs and coal really does make the chimney dirty.

As for it being environmentally unfriendly, the oil we burn in the heating system might also be seen as not being particularly good. We get the oil wagon up here every 6 months or so.

What is the thought on burning serfs? This is surely environmentally friendly as it decreases the world's population.

We will easily get through a large basket of logs in a evening, in just a few hours, on our open fire.. My daughter's stove will use less than that in a whole day ! TBH, we've only, really, used the open fire as a nice cosy centrepiece on a cold winter's day - it's not a great way of heating the room.

Our new stove is a Charnwood Aire 5 - so 5KW - cost about £1.4K

TB63 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:21 pm Should've gone for the Saltfire Bignut 5 ...

Check out The Tortoise channel on YouTube, reviews many stoves..

TB63 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:02 pm I guessed...

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:57 pm Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:47 pm

vball wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:15 am We replaced open fire with a stove when we moved into our Highland Croft 15 years ago. Some stats like an open fire 20% of heat goes into the room and 80% up the chimney. With a stove it is other way around. You really only need a small stove as they really do put out a lot of heat, especially when the cast iron gets hot. We are lucky as we have lots of trees on our land but have gone back to purely coal. Mixing logs and coal really does make the chimney dirty.

As for it being environmentally unfriendly, the oil we burn in the heating system might also be seen as not being particularly good. We get the oil wagon up here every 6 months or so.

What is the thought on burning serfs? This is surely environmentally friendly as it decreases the world's population.

We will easily get through a large basket of logs in a evening, in just a few hours, on our open fire.. My daughter's stove will use less than that in a whole day ! TBH, we've only, really, used the open fire as a nice cosy centrepiece on a cold winter's day - it's not a great way of heating the room.

Our new stove is a Charnwood Aire 5 - so 5KW - cost about £1.4K

petej wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:06 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:57 pm Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Strangely high. A colleague (in Hampshire) got quoted 8k for a 3kW panels and 5kW battery. Adding a few extra panels really shouldn't increase the cost by 3k.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:20 pm
I am curious why vball has gone back to coal if he has wood available. We burn logs from own wood which I can churn out pretty efficiently, but only after a decent investment in chainsaws, splitter and other equipment.

Glaston wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:21 pm Just had my Oct price rise notification from Octopus.
Estimated increase is way less than forecast. Approx £130 extra/year


They are actually reducing my DD by £67

I looked into getting solar panels but unless prices rise even further they make no economic sense to me.
They seem to add little extra value if decide to sell within the 10 years or so it takes to pay off the cost.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:57 pm Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:22 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:57 pm Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Or alternatively, 4.73% p.a. gross return on the money, which isn't bad.

But as ever, green crap has to pay for itself to be worthy, unlike boilers, bathrooms, kitchens, log burners, cars, etc.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:17 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:22 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:57 pm Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Or alternatively, 4.73% p.a. gross return on the money, which isn't bad.

But as ever, green crap has to pay for itself to be worthy, unlike boilers, bathrooms, kitchens, log burners, cars, etc.

Yeah, for some reason people are far more analytical in their costing for things like solar panels. But they’ll just go and spunk money at a new car.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:22 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:57 pm Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Or alternatively, 4.73% p.a. gross return on the money, which isn't bad.

But as ever, green crap has to pay for itself to be worthy, unlike boilers, bathrooms, kitchens, log burners, cars, etc.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:08 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:22 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:57 pm Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Or alternatively, 4.73% p.a. gross return on the money, which isn't bad.

But as ever, green crap has to pay for itself to be worthy, unlike boilers, bathrooms, kitchens, log burners, cars, etc.

How do you work that out, there's no way it adds 100% of it's value and it's also a depreciating asset that is no doubt going to have extensive maintenance and replacement costs to include as well. I can now get 3.75% sticking the money in a savings account which makes it even less attractive.

I mentioned the environmental aspect initially but I just don't feel that justifies the expense at the moment and unless they make it more financially attractive I think the take up will be poor. Interestingly a friend had a similar system installed 6 years ago for less that £6500 so I think there is a fair bit of price gauging going on as well.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:08 pm How do you work that out, there's no way it adds 100% of it's value and it's also a depreciating asset that is no doubt going to have extensive maintenance and replacement costs to include as well. I can now get 3.75% sticking the money in a savings account which makes it even less attractive.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:08 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:22 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:57 pm Just had a really detailed survey and a quote for solar panels. £11400 for a 3.8kw system and 5kw battery. Incredibly the projected savings were only £540 a year. Other than the environmental issue I just can't see the feasibility as it would take nearly 25 years to get a return, not taking into account maintenance costs and also the inevitable obsolescence of the system by then.

Or alternatively, 4.73% p.a. gross return on the money, which isn't bad.

But as ever, green crap has to pay for itself to be worthy, unlike boilers, bathrooms, kitchens, log burners, cars, etc.

How do you work that out, there's no way it adds 100% of it's value and it's also a depreciating asset that is no doubt going to have extensive maintenance and replacement costs to include as well. I can now get 3.75% sticking the money in a savings account which makes it even less attractive.

I mentioned the environmental aspect initially but I just don't feel that justifies the expense at the moment and unless they make it more financially attractive I think the take up will be poor. Interestingly a friend had a similar system installed 6 years ago for less that £6500 so I think there is a fair bit of price gauging going on as well.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:19 am

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:08 pm How do you work that out, there's no way it adds 100% of it's value and it's also a depreciating asset that is no doubt going to have extensive maintenance and replacement costs to include as well. I can now get 3.75% sticking the money in a savings account which makes it even less attractive.

The gross return ignores the costs, which is why I said the net is return including costs is what matters.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:39 am

weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:19 am

Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:08 pm How do you work that out, there's no way it adds 100% of it's value and it's also a depreciating asset that is no doubt going to have extensive maintenance and replacement costs to include as well. I can now get 3.75% sticking the money in a savings account which makes it even less attractive.

The gross return ignores the costs, which is why I said the net is return including costs is what matters.

Very much so. My mate had a system installed about 10 years ago and reckons it pretty much paid for itself within
8 years due to the amazing feed in tariff he is still getting and is guaranteed for 25 years. On a lesser note he has just had his house valued and the surveyor reckoned that systems over 10 years old don't really add anything to the value and are actually considered a bit of a liability.

Germany nationalises gas giant amid energy crisis

Germany is to nationalise gas giant Uniper in an effort to secure energy supplies amid the war in Ukraine.

The deal will see the German government take on a 98.5% stake in the firm at a cost of €8.5bn (£7.4bn).

Germany is Europe's biggest importer of Russian gas, and has been particularly squeezed as Russia has reduced supplies in recent months.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62980158