NPR

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:21 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:36 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:08 pm Cheers Slick. Seems a bit of a dumb thing to write.



Because he wanted Porter's flexibility, and Sinckler has had patchy fitness this season. Add that to England's overall woes, and, well...



He was, actually, quite a lot. Famously he missed out on quite a bit of an England career because the selectors thought he was too small.

Different times, obviously, when players were smaller in general.

I remember this, TBH. Back was capped years later than he should have been, and it was pretty much all due to his size.

The difference between Back and Watson, of course, is that in Back’s case, the criticism stopped once he started playing Tests. Watson has played against every Tier 1 team in the world and won 6N POTY, and it’s still happening.

Thats' my point! I'm not sure what else Watson needs to do to prove he is big enough to be a top class Test 7?

I take it we’re looking for a more realistic and achievable target than ‘play for a team that isn’t Scotland’?

Over 3000 season tickets sold for Embra, pretty decent number and still a fair bit out from the start of the season 2646 was the previous record.

Really looking forward to getting through for a game in the new stadium at the earliest opportunity.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:59 am Over 3000 season tickets sold for Embra, pretty decent number and still a fair bit out from the start of the season 2646 was the previous record.

Really looking forward to getting through for a game in the new stadium at the earliest opportunity.

The atmosphere at games is going to be so much better and I think it's almost guaranteed to be decently full with that many season tickets sold already.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:59 am Over 3000 season tickets sold for Embra, pretty decent number and still a fair bit out from the start of the season 2646 was the previous record.

Really looking forward to getting through for a game in the new stadium at the earliest opportunity.

Cat 1&2 sold out

I don't remember who said it, but I remember someone say that if you can find someone who is six foot four and seventeen stones and can do what Neil Back can do, then pick him. Until then pick Neil Back.

It might have been Winterbottom who said it, he was no stranger to the bottom of ruck in the good old days of flying tackets.

Putting on a Lions cap as opposed to a Scottish one, the duke-out between Curry and Watson for the seven jersey is going to be one of the most interesting battles for selection, maybe there will be a bit of a surprise and someone else will step up, but I think that is unlikely.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:20 am I don't remember who said it, but I remember someone say that if you can find someone who is six foot four and seventeen stones and can do what Neil Back can do, then pick him. Until then pick Neil Back.

It might have been Winterbottom who said it, he was no stranger to the bottom of ruck in the good old days of flying tackets.

Putting on a Lions cap as opposed to a Scottish one, the duke-out between Curry and Watson for the seven jersey is going to be one of the most interesting battles for selection, maybe there will be a bit of a surprise and someone else will step up, but I think that is unlikely.

Didn’t they have a similar discussion on the 97 Lions tour when Richard Hill was picked at 7 ahead of Back? They went for Hill then as they did in 01 until he got taken out by Nathan Grey
Edit - not that I think there’s any significant size difference between Watson and Curry

duke wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:46 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:20 am I don't remember who said it, but I remember someone say that if you can find someone who is six foot four and seventeen stones and can do what Neil Back can do, then pick him. Until then pick Neil Back.

It might have been Winterbottom who said it, he was no stranger to the bottom of ruck in the good old days of flying tackets.

Putting on a Lions cap as opposed to a Scottish one, the duke-out between Curry and Watson for the seven jersey is going to be one of the most interesting battles for selection, maybe there will be a bit of a surprise and someone else will step up, but I think that is unlikely.

Didn’t they have a similar discussion on the 97 Lions tour when Richard Hill was picked at 7 ahead of Back? They went for Hill then as they did in 01 until he got taken out by Nathan Grey
Edit - not that I think there’s any significant size difference between Watson and Curry

I had to look it up as there is no way I can remember games from twenty odd years ago, Dayglo, Rodber and Hill for first two tests, Dayglo, Wainwright and Back for the third, after the series was won.

Quinnell didn't get a test appearance, though I don't know if he was injured or what, I think he might have been.

I think Quinnell buggered his shoulder up so they had to go with Rod Timber

Tbf, until his knee blew, hill was a better 7 than back.

I agree re watson being unfairly done down for his size. He's a unit. The only bit he misses out on that curry has(and I may be wrong here) is that he's not often used as a lineout option

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:21 am Tbf, until his knee blew, hill was a better 7 than back.

I agree re watson being unfairly done down for his size. He's a unit. The only bit he misses out on that curry has(and I may be wrong here) is that he's not often used as a lineout option

Hill was probably as good as any backrow player in the world at that time at 6 or 7

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:21 am Tbf, until his knee blew, hill was a better 7 than back.

I agree re watson being unfairly done down for his size. He's a unit. The only bit he misses out on that curry has(and I may be wrong here) is that he's not often used as a lineout option

Not sure if it's more training or just the Lions shirt what but Mish was looking like a complete unit in the Lions shirt on Saturday

Confrmed Huw Jones has joined Premiership champions Harlequins.

U20's getting another battering

French Red Card could make this a little bit more interesting but only if the Scots can improve their handling and retention

westport wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:54 am Confrmed Huw Jones has joined Premiership champions Harlequins.

Fantastic bit of business by Quins, with him Marchant, Northmore and Esterhuizen, thats a helluva set to pick from.

Getting ugly now for Scotland, scrum being absolutely monstered and tackling seems to be an optional extra now.

ASMO wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:43 pm Getting ugly now for Scotland, scrum being absolutely monstered and tackling seems to be an optional extra now.

Genuine question, why were Scotland being penalised in the scrum when losing the ball against the head? The object of the scrum is to restart the game with a contest for possession, if a team commits a technical infringement to either retain or win the ball, then it should be a penalty. However, surely when a team is pushed off the ball resulting in clean possession to the opposition, then no infringement has been made that impacts the game?

Good nights work for our 6 guys on show. Sutherland looked really good, Fagerson probably the worst performer but he wasn't poor.

Mish came in and got a turnover too.

Very pleased with how the Scottish Lions are going so far.

Hogg was great the other night, IrnDu looking great, Harris looked very good.

Price tonight looked like a possible test match 9, Finn played well. Fagerson was fine and Sutherland made a big difference in the scrum.

Well done lads

Edit: and of course Mish. With his performances and Curry not great tonight I’d like to think that debate is put to bed

Whisper it, but Price might be playing himself into a starting spot.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:53 pm Whisper it, but Price might be playing himself into a starting spot.

Absolutely. Said it in the match thread. I did worry he might be slightly out of his depth but he looks incredibly assured and the way the Lions are playing suits him

Pretty sure I watched LRZ get bumped off, missing a tackle down his wing.

Commentary blamed Price for turning his hips, which probably didn't help. That said LRZ was in position to make the tackle but got bumped.

It happens, but as far as I recall it went completely unmentioned. Can't help but think that wouldn't have been the case if it were IrnDu.

C T wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:23 am Pretty sure I watched LRZ get bumped off, missing a tackle down his wing.

Commentary blamed Price for turning his hips, which probably didn't help. That said LRZ was in position to make the tackle but got bumped.

It happens, but as far as I recall it went completely unmentioned. Can't help but think that wouldn't have been the case if it were IrnDu.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. LRZ completely burned down his wing, no mention. If DVDM had done it you can be sure it would have been examined in detail.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:01 pm

ASMO wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:43 pm Getting ugly now for Scotland, scrum being absolutely monstered and tackling seems to be an optional extra now.

Genuine question, why were Scotland being penalised in the scrum when losing the ball against the head? The object of the scrum is to restart the game with a contest for possession, if a team commits a technical infringement to either retain or win the ball, then it should be a penalty. However, surely when a team is pushed off the ball resulting in clean possession to the opposition, then no infringement has been made that impacts the game?

It seems routine for a while now that a side who are getting owned at scrum time must also be penalised repeatedly for it. Makes no sense to me at all. Is it against the laws to be bad now?

Agree with all the other assessments of the only sporting event that took place last night. I think we can be slightly more generous with our praise of Fagerson given he was supported on the other side of the scrum by a guy flat on his face and still largely held his side up.

Price has looked excellent, however Murray has only had around 60 minutes so far, I expect him to make a push for that starting spot. Still, I would say he is currently at least looking at a bench spot. Lots can change between now and the first test of course.

Adams was excellent again and I think, as much as you can be at this point, is nailed on for a test wing spot. That he played this game at fullback adds another 'versatility' string to his bow too, which strengthens his case. In my mind Duhan is in a three way fight for the other spot. I think he is ahead of LRZ right now, but Watson hasn't had a chance to show his class yet.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:25 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:01 pm

ASMO wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:43 pm Getting ugly now for Scotland, scrum being absolutely monstered and tackling seems to be an optional extra now.

Genuine question, why were Scotland being penalised in the scrum when losing the ball against the head? The object of the scrum is to restart the game with a contest for possession, if a team commits a technical infringement to either retain or win the ball, then it should be a penalty. However, surely when a team is pushed off the ball resulting in clean possession to the opposition, then no infringement has been made that impacts the game?

It seems routine for a while now that a side who are getting owned at scrum time must also be penalised repeatedly for it. Makes no sense to me at all. Is it against the laws to be bad now?

Exactly what I was thinking. Surely if you are being beasted in the scrum the option you have is to 'allow' the other team possession otherwise it will just be milked until there is a yellow or more. What is the alternative? There is none.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:01 am Agree with all the other assessments of the only sporting event that took place last night. I think we can be slightly more generous with our praise of Fagerson given he was supported on the other side of the scrum by a guy flat on his face and still largely held his side up.

National bias a side there was very little praise worthy of that performance. Scrum penalty and issues aside; missing one of two tackles and very little impact in open play was disappointing (1 pass, 3 carries for 3m) and I'm not sure what part of his play we are meant to praise?

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:02 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:25 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:01 pm

Genuine question, why were Scotland being penalised in the scrum when losing the ball against the head? The object of the scrum is to restart the game with a contest for possession, if a team commits a technical infringement to either retain or win the ball, then it should be a penalty. However, surely when a team is pushed off the ball resulting in clean possession to the opposition, then no infringement has been made that impacts the game?

It seems routine for a while now that a side who are getting owned at scrum time must also be penalised repeatedly for it. Makes no sense to me at all. Is it against the laws to be bad now?

Exactly what I was thinking. Surely if you are being beasted in the scrum the option you have is to 'allow' the other team possession otherwise it will just be milked until there is a yellow or more. What is the alternative? There is none.

They were going backwards, but eventually the scrum collapsed which is where i think they were penalised and eventually lost the prop to a YC

ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:12 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:02 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:25 am

It seems routine for a while now that a side who are getting owned at scrum time must also be penalised repeatedly for it. Makes no sense to me at all. Is it against the laws to be bad now?

Exactly what I was thinking. Surely if you are being beasted in the scrum the option you have is to 'allow' the other team possession otherwise it will just be milked until there is a yellow or more. What is the alternative? There is none.

They were going backwards, but eventually the scrum collapsed which is where i think they were penalised and eventually lost the prop to a YC

That’s sort of the point though. A team that is dominant at the scrum knows that as long as they keep turning the screw, they will get a succession of penalties and probably someone binned, and there is little the weaker side can do about it.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:16 pm

ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:12 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:02 am

Exactly what I was thinking. Surely if you are being beasted in the scrum the option you have is to 'allow' the other team possession otherwise it will just be milked until there is a yellow or more. What is the alternative? There is none.

They were going backwards, but eventually the scrum collapsed which is where i think they were penalised and eventually lost the prop to a YC

That’s sort of the point though. A team that is dominant at the scrum knows that as long as they keep turning the screw, they will get a succession of penalties and probably someone binned, and there is little the weaker side can do about it.

Sure, my point was if you start going backwards so collapse the scrum and retain the ball, that’s a penalty. If you are going backwards and the opposition number 8 has the ball at his feet and available for the 9, and then the scrum collapses, it should be play on. The advantage is that you have turned a scrum against the head and taken possession. A penalty (advantage) on top seems overly harsh. The scrum at that point has been completed, there is no need for the contest to continue.

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:11 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:01 am Agree with all the other assessments of the only sporting event that took place last night. I think we can be slightly more generous with our praise of Fagerson given he was supported on the other side of the scrum by a guy flat on his face and still largely held his side up.

National bias a side there was very little praise worthy of that performance. Scrum penalty and issues aside; missing one of two tackles and very little impact in open play was disappointing (1 pass, 3 carries for 3m) and I'm not sure what part of his play we are meant to praise?

Fair enough, I hadn’t seen those stats. My impression was he showed up well in defence, made his tackles and held up his side of what was a scrum essentially in disarray due to Mako. On that basis I felt he had done pretty well. Sometimes the eyes can deceive though.

I notice Rodd hasn't been used by England. Still a chance yet he plays for us.

Georgia game is off

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:06 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:16 pm

ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:12 pm

They were going backwards, but eventually the scrum collapsed which is where i think they were penalised and eventually lost the prop to a YC

That’s sort of the point though. A team that is dominant at the scrum knows that as long as they keep turning the screw, they will get a succession of penalties and probably someone binned, and there is little the weaker side can do about it.

Sure, my point was if you start going backwards so collapse the scrum and retain the ball, that’s a penalty. If you are going backwards and the opposition number 8 has the ball at his feet and available for the 9, and then the scrum collapses, it should be play on. The advantage is that you have turned a scrum against the head and taken possession. A penalty (advantage) on top seems overly harsh. The scrum at that point has been completed, there is no need for the contest to continue.

Yup, agree.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:07 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:06 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:16 pm

That’s sort of the point though. A team that is dominant at the scrum knows that as long as they keep turning the screw, they will get a succession of penalties and probably someone binned, and there is little the weaker side can do about it.

Sure, my point was if you start going backwards so collapse the scrum and retain the ball, that’s a penalty. If you are going backwards and the opposition number 8 has the ball at his feet and available for the 9, and then the scrum collapses, it should be play on. The advantage is that you have turned a scrum against the head and taken possession. A penalty (advantage) on top seems overly harsh. The scrum at that point has been completed, there is no need for the contest to continue.

Yup, agree.

Scotland were going back but they were going back straight and got penalised for it, then the ball was released when the ref's arm was out, it wasn't how the law is written or supposed to be implemented.

Don't get me wrong, I love a dominant scrum and think they should be rewarded, but that French scrum were rewarded too much, the Scottish loosehead was binned for being bettered, rather than turning in, and that is not what is supposed to happen.


When I played we had a code that called for a quick wheel and then drive when the opposition pack was off balance, the upshot was that they would always, without exception, collapse under you and you'd merrily stamp all over the top of them as you continued the drive.
There wasn't a penalty offense for either wheeling or collapsing back then.

Finn out until 1st test. Likely his test ambitions are gone too.

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:57 pm Finn out until 1st test. Likely his test ambitions are gone too.

I reckon Biggar was nailed on to start. If he’s fit by then, Finn still in with a shout of a bench spot.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:22 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:57 pm Finn out until 1st test. Likely his test ambitions are gone too.

I reckon Biggar was nailed on to start. If he’s fit by then, Finn still in with a shout of a bench spot.

If anything it'll be more difficult. Smith will shine with the Lions too.

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:33 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:22 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:57 pm Finn out until 1st test. Likely his test ambitions are gone too.

I reckon Biggar was nailed on to start. If he’s fit by then, Finn still in with a shout of a bench spot.

If anything it'll be more difficult. Smith will shine with the Lions too.

Will Smith even get a game? Maybe next Saturday if he’s lucky

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:06 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:33 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:22 pm

I reckon Biggar was nailed on to start. If he’s fit by then, Finn still in with a shout of a bench spot.

If anything it'll be more difficult. Smith will shine with the Lions too.

Will Smith even get a game? Maybe next Saturday if he’s lucky

They'll have to give him gametime in the remaining games before the tests. He is an injury away from the test team.

I imagine they'll wrap Biggar in cotton wool.