NPR

Its a good thing Rassie was successful. Imagine how kak it would have been for Saffers if he had gone out like Straueli. A rubbish coach with questionable methods going out on a 53-3 drubbing at Twickers. His captain knocking out one of his own players. He's going out with his team at the top of the world rankings and holders of the Webb Ellis.

Blake wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:45 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:56 pm
Really, so fucking what if a player feels disrespected.

Agreed. Shouldn’t matter at all.

WR seemed so worried that Siya’s statement somehow implied racism on behalf of the officials that they felt compelled to make a statement about it in the Rassie report.

I’m sure there are lots of players that feel a referee snubbed them at some point. Siya just answered a journalist in a presser about how he felt.

Hooper show a lot of this. Ending up in the refs face. Berry is use to this in Australia now he have a big cry.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:04 am

Blake wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:45 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:56 pm
Really, so fucking what if a player feels disrespected.

Agreed. Shouldn’t matter at all.

WR seemed so worried that Siya’s statement somehow implied racism on behalf of the officials that they felt compelled to make a statement about it in the Rassie report.

I’m sure there are lots of players that feel a referee snubbed them at some point. Siya just answered a journalist in a presser about how he felt.

Hooper show a lot of this. Ending up in the refs face. Berry is use to this in Australia now he have a big cry.

Sam Whitelock also did a lot of undignified squealing in the Ireland match. Probably a good thing they're cracking down on dissent. Its all gotten a bit out of hand.

Gumboot wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:55 am

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:48 amBro, more chill pills, less anger pills.

So because I don't agree with your opion I have a fluid understanding of freedom of speech?

Pot.
Kettle
Black?

Here we go again with the patronising suggestions that my response is driven by emotion (I'm not even remotely angry) and so can be easily dismissed...

This situation doesn't really impact your life at all. It had a huge impact on Nic Berry's life.

Be quiet.

Move on.

So arrogant too.
Be quiet?
Move on?
WOW!

All of this could have been avoided if Nic Berry did a half decent job at his chosen profession. Like any job, there is going to be an investigation if there is a balls up.

But, but...I thought you were my mentor Chilli...

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:08 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:55 am

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:48 amBro, more chill pills, less anger pills.

So because I don't agree with your opion I have a fluid understanding of freedom of speech?

Pot.
Kettle
Black?

Here we go again with the patronising suggestions that my response is driven by emotion (I'm not even remotely angry) and so can be easily dismissed...

This situation doesn't really impact your life at all. It had a huge impact on Nic Berry's life.

Be quiet.

Move on.

So arrogant too.
Be quiet?
Move on?
WOW!

He's a Spiritual Guardian. You should listen to him.

FalseBayFC wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:12 amHe's a Spiritual Guardian. You should listen to him.

Couldn't agree more.

See, if we all make an effort consensus is never impossible!

A fairly soft penalty on Rassie, that rings hollow considering how late it is be handed down.

A poor reflection on World Rugby. It presented an opportunity to address a major issue, but instead they have closed ranks like the old boys club that they are.

More motivation for the Boks

assfly wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:45 am More motivation for the Boks

The Pom lot here is already bitter and aggressive.

Another loss and they will explode.

Sards wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:59 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:56 pm

Blake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:44 pm

Agree 100%

But that doesn’t invalidate his statement that him being told to go away while AWJ was given access to the referee could be interpreted as disrespect. (The referees we reviewing a try and he wanted to request they check that Mapimpi was being held back in a kick chase…which was the case…but which was also irrelevant as an infringement accursed before that.)

Nor does it support their claim that that statement in any way shape or form accused them of racism.

Ironically, the indignation that they think that is what Siya was accusing the officials of, simply because it is a black man making the accusation, kind of shows the bias among the judiciary IMO (not the officials of the match)

Really, so fucking what if a player feels disrespected.

This is not Kolisi's mess. Why even vokken involve him ffs.
None of the players should be involved with this. Nienaber should stay the vok out of it too. Let it be about Rassie but not the Springbok team.

Can see what you try here.

We all know you hate Rassie for not selecting enough Sharks players.

Blake wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:45 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:56 pm
Really, so fucking what if a player feels disrespected.

Agreed. Shouldn’t matter at all.

WR seemed so worried that Siya’s statement somehow implied racism on behalf of the officials that they felt compelled to make a statement about it in the Rassie report.

I’m sure there are lots of players that feel a referee snubbed them at some point. Siya just answered a journalist in a presser about how he felt.

Sorry, don’t agree with that. I’m a big fan of Siya’s but think he let himself down badly here, or at the very least allowed himself to be used. The whiff of racism was deliberately left hanging in the air on purpose which in itself was a disgrace from SA Rugby

Leave it to World Rugby to take 4 months to decide something as simple as this. If they think this will have an effect on the outcome of the England game, they're right but not in the way they are hoping. Nothing motivates a Saffa as much as adversity.

Anyone else wondering why the specific match day ban?

As I understand it, he was on trial for his post match day behaviour. Ie the video.

It feels like WR are trying to punish him for his water boy antics which is unrelated to this.

Is he not therefore banned from the post match analysis process (after 2 months)?? But he is from being a water boy for a year.

ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:23 pm What Erasmus did with that video was a disgraceful act and he deserves every day of his ban.

IMO the threatening of the referee has been to lightly punished.

Enzedder wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:22 am

He deserves his punishment and will take it like a pro.

He has appealed. What a pro.

What a pro!

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:21 am

Blake wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:45 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:56 pm
Really, so fucking what if a player feels disrespected.

Agreed. Shouldn’t matter at all.

WR seemed so worried that Siya’s statement somehow implied racism on behalf of the officials that they felt compelled to make a statement about it in the Rassie report.

I’m sure there are lots of players that feel a referee snubbed them at some point. Siya just answered a journalist in a presser about how he felt.

Sorry, don’t agree with that. I’m a big fan of Siya’s but think he let himself down badly here, or at the very least allowed himself to be used. The whiff of racism was deliberately left hanging in the air on purpose which in itself was a disgrace from SA Rugby

It's of course possible that Siya thought Berry was, if not a racist, at least prejudiced against him because he is a black African.

Similar to some other posters I find it hard to get worked up about this. Rassie is a slippery fellow with a Martyr complex (which might be fake), who just got given a two month holiday in the off season. World rugby are run by a bunch old, mainly anglo, farts, and Berry is a slightly kak referee who's a bit sus when it comes to how he treats black Africans. This will all blow over soon enough.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:21 am

Blake wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:45 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:56 pm
Really, so fucking what if a player feels disrespected.

Agreed. Shouldn’t matter at all.

WR seemed so worried that Siya’s statement somehow implied racism on behalf of the officials that they felt compelled to make a statement about it in the Rassie report.

I’m sure there are lots of players that feel a referee snubbed them at some point. Siya just answered a journalist in a presser about how he felt.

Sorry, don’t agree with that. I’m a big fan of Siya’s but think he let himself down badly here, or at the very least allowed himself to be used. The whiff of racism was deliberately left hanging in the air on purpose which in itself was a disgrace from SA Rugby

I disagree. Maybe it is a cultural thing; but we usually don't pussyfoot around accusations of racism in South Africa. I suspect because it is such a uncomfortable topic elsewhere, many there just assumed Siya was talking in code.

Here are the 2 questions Siya answered in the presser:


He chose his words very carefully. The journos were trying to coax a racism accusation out of him. He just complained about not getting equal access to the referee in the 1st test and the Rassie video shows 2 incidents:
1. The officials are reviewing a disallowed try with the TMO. AWJ is standing with the officials and asks them to look for a knock; which they do. Siya approaches (not aggressively) and want's to ask them to also look at Mapimpi being held back. The AR instructs him to leave.
2. The other incident was Siya questioning a knock on and with Lions player in front which should be a Bok penalty. Berry, brushes him off.

Is there anything there? I don't think so. AWJ is a seasoned campaigner and a great captain. He knows how to communicate with referees and has presence. Siya is still young and inexperienced in the role by comparison. Maybe he did feel he didn't get equal access or treatment from the officials, but that could be due to many things. Siya is shorter, younger, less imposing, less experienced and maybe AJW just had a better rapport with the officials on the day. All are equally valid, but people immediately assumed the accusation of bias was racially motivated because there was one other difference between Siya and AWJ.

I've seen many referees handling very belligerent captains much more tactfully than Siya was handled in that match and he was very calm and respectful when attempting to communicate with the referees. He usually is, and he plays "good cop" to "Duane Vermeulen's bad cop".

Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:53 am It's of course possible that Siya thought Berry was, if not a racist, at least prejudiced against him because he is a black African.

Similar to some other posters I find it hard to get worked up about this. Rassie is a slippery fellow with a Martyr complex (which might be fake), who just got given a two month holiday in the off season. World rugby are run by a bunch old, mainly anglo, farts, and Berry is a slightly kak referee who's a bit sus when it comes to how he treats black Africans. This will all blow over soon enough.

Those are quite some accusations boet. What did I miss, because I didn't get any of that vibe and I'm not aware of the second incident you are referring to. It wasn't even Berry that showed Siya away during the TMO review.

Blake wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:02 am

Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:53 am It's of course possible that Siya thought Berry was, if not a racist, at least prejudiced against him because he is a black African.

Similar to some other posters I find it hard to get worked up about this. Rassie is a slippery fellow with a Martyr complex (which might be fake), who just got given a two month holiday in the off season. World rugby are run by a bunch old, mainly anglo, farts, and Berry is a slightly kak referee who's a bit sus when it comes to how he treats black Africans. This will all blow over soon enough.

Those are quite some accusations boet. What did I miss, because I didn't get any of that vibe and I'm not aware of the second incident you are referring to. It wasn't even Berry that showed Siya away during the TMO review.

See, I don't think they are. Everybody has some prejudice and bias, obviously as a referee it helps if you are aware of them and try to minimize them. Berry apologized to Siya after the video, so maybe Berry did think he treated Siya with prejudice.

South Africans are being fed by commentators like Mark Keohane (I can't call him a journalist). In his article below he libels Nic Berry, Bill Beaumont and World Rugby as white supremacists. If this is the prevailing view held over there then South Africa will lose test rugby status purely by virtue of the fact that no referee will go there.

https://www.keo.co.za/rassie-latest-wor ... eaking-up/

You won't read a worse article purporting to be from a rugby journalist in your lifetime.

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:34 am Anyone else wondering why the specific match day ban?

As I understand it, he was on trial for his post match day behaviour. Ie the video.

It feels like WR are trying to punish him for his water boy antics which is unrelated to this.

Is he not therefore banned from the post match analysis process (after 2 months)?? But he is from being a water boy for a year.

All rugby related media engagements for 2 months was my understanding. So this will include pre-and post match comments.
The match-day ban will not only affect his waterboy duties, and any pre-match and half-time chats with players; as well as post-match celebrations.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:21 am South Africans are being fed by commentators like Mark Keohane (I can't call him a journalist). In his article below he libels Nic Berry, Bill Beaumont and World Rugby as white supremacists. If this is the prevailing view held over there then South Africa will lose test rugby status purely by virtue of the fact that no referee will go there.

https://www.keo.co.za/rassie-latest-wor ... eaking-up/

You won't read a worse article purporting to be from a rugby journalist in your lifetime.

Keo is our version of you. Nobody cares what he thinks except Sards.

Blake, I'm happy to go along with the narrative that Siya wasn't accusing anyone of racism. He looked bloody uncomfortable in that video.

However, Rassie put him in that position and once the narrative was out there there that the ref had been disrespectful because of his race SA Rugby should have stamped on that immediately and said that wasn't the accusation. They didn't, they let it fester and that's fucking terrible.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:21 am South Africans are being fed by commentators like Mark Keohane (I can't call him a journalist). In his article below he libels Nic Berry, Bill Beaumont and World Rugby as white supremacists. If this is the prevailing view held over there then South Africa will lose test rugby status purely by virtue of the fact that no referee will go there.

https://www.keo.co.za/rassie-latest-wor ... eaking-up/

You won't read a worse article purporting to be from a rugby journalist in your lifetime.

Very few South African rugby fans like or read anything Keo pushes.
He is almost universally hated here; has been since turned against the Bok camp and and tanked Geo Cronje's career during the Geo Cronje - Quentin Davids racism debacle.
Further cemented his place in the annals of hated cunts when he backed Luke Watson and the Minister of Sport in the bullying of Jake White to include Luke in the Bok squad.
Since then he's gone even more downhill becoming a clickbaiter and conspiracy theorist.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:21 am South Africans are being fed by commentators like Mark Keohane (I can't call him a journalist). In his article below he libels Nic Berry, Bill Beaumont and World Rugby as white supremacists. If this is the prevailing view held over there then South Africa will lose test rugby status purely by virtue of the fact that no referee will go there.

https://www.keo.co.za/rassie-latest-wor ... eaking-up/

You won't read a worse article purporting to be from a rugby journalist in your lifetime.

His views are not representative of South African fans. He's an embarrassment and a dick looking for clicks.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:21 am South Africans are being fed by commentators like Mark Keohane (I can't call him a journalist). In his article below he libels Nic Berry, Bill Beaumont and World Rugby as white supremacists. If this is the prevailing view held over there then South Africa will lose test rugby status purely by virtue of the fact that no referee will go there.

https://www.keo.co.za/rassie-latest-wor ... eaking-up/

You won't read a worse article purporting to be from a rugby journalist in your lifetime.

I know who it is, but that's still a shocker of an article.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:26 am Blake, I'm happy to go along with the narrative that Siya wasn't accusing anyone of racism. He looked bloody uncomfortable in that video.

However, Rassie put him in that position and once the narrative was out there there that the ref had been disrespectful because of his race SA Rugby should have stamped on that immediately and said that wasn't the accusation. They didn't, they let it fester and that's fucking terrible.

Maaaate. SA Rugby board feed on racism, it’s in those idiots DNA. They are loving it.

However please don’t think that the majority of fans think Berry is a racist. We called him a shite ref when Jean de Villiers tried to have a word as skipper.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:38 am

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:26 am Blake, I'm happy to go along with the narrative that Siya wasn't accusing anyone of racism. He looked bloody uncomfortable in that video.

However, Rassie put him in that position and once the narrative was out there there that the ref had been disrespectful because of his race SA Rugby should have stamped on that immediately and said that wasn't the accusation. They didn't, they let it fester and that's fucking terrible.

Maaaate. SA Rugby board feed on racism, it’s in those idiots DNA. They are loving it.

However please don’t think that the majority of fans think Berry is a racist. We called him a shite ref when Jean de Villiers tried to have a word as skipper.

What match was this?

South African rugby is talking itself out of test rugby. They appear to think they are on a crusade, that they've been terribly wronged and they're somehow the good guys who will clean up the game.

It's mass delusion. Saffa rugby is going to land with a very heavy bump and you'll wonder wtf has happened. Put simply, without referees you don't play a game, without a governing body you don't play a game. World Rugby and every referee in the world outside South Africa will always be on the side of Berry, that won't change regardless of how poorly you or anyone else thinks he refereed the first Lions test.

I've never seen anyone or anything choose to die on a lower hill than this one. It's tragic but it's so clear to see how this one pans out.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:48 am South African rugby is talking itself out of test rugby. They appear to think they are on a crusade, that they've been terribly wronged and they're somehow the good guys who will clean up the game.

It's mass delusion. Saffa rugby is going to land with a very heavy bump and you'll wonder wtf has happened. Put simply, without referees you don't play a game, without a governing body you don't play a game. World Rugby and every referee in the world outside South Africa will always be on the side of Berry, that won't change regardless of how poorly you or anyone else thinks he refereed the first Lions test.

I've never seen anyone or anything choose to die on a lower hill than this one. It's tragic but it's so clear to see how this one pans out.

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:04 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:50 pm

handyman wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:35 pm Calm down lads.

I’m finding it difficult to care about this, tbh.

If world rugby were some kind of saints themselves I might give a monkey’s.

Quite surprised by this reaction to be honest, but fair enough

Since the game turned pro there has been a creep towards this kind of incident and I'm not advocating a return to amateurism at the top end in the slightest, but with professionalism comes a lot of money and a lot more pressure. There is so much riding on events such as the Lions tour, okay this time was different but they are huge boosts to the local economy and for the players and staff it's the pinnacle of their careers from a playing perspective but it also adds to their bargaining power on their next contracts, playing for the Boks or ABs or Wallabies against the Lions must be up there as for them it can only happen every 12 years.

We've come a long way from boat trips to exotic places and four months off work to tour the likes of South Africa, everything is much more intense and pressurised, if anything I'm surprised things like this don't happen more often, but it's certainly happening on the pitch with monotonous regularity, you see players in the ref's face all game long, players who aren't necessarily the captain and they get away with it, you seldom see teams marched back ten metres now, but it did happen at the weekend right enough.

World Rugby have proven themselves unworthy trustees of the game imo, have you seen Ocean's Apart? There is a vote very soon to allow players to play for a second international team after three years, but Dan Leo met with such resistance from the governing body that I have little faith that the vote will pass. Not all countries have an equal vote, WR have been very slow to react to the growing concussion problem and player safety in general, there is little to suggest they are anything but be-blazered old farts on a jolly.

All that and more is why I can't get worked up about that video and the circumstances around it.

Berry has always been shite.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:37 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:21 am South Africans are being fed by commentators like Mark Keohane (I can't call him a journalist). In his article below he libels Nic Berry, Bill Beaumont and World Rugby as white supremacists. If this is the prevailing view held over there then South Africa will lose test rugby status purely by virtue of the fact that no referee will go there.

https://www.keo.co.za/rassie-latest-wor ... eaking-up/

You won't read a worse article purporting to be from a rugby journalist in your lifetime.

I know who it is, but that's still a shocker of an article.

That article (and others doubling down) is quite extraordinary it is a proper call to arms to hit the self destruct button! Keohane is an absolute disgrace I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up in court too.

Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:47 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:38 am However please don’t think that the majority of fans think Berry is a racist. We called him a shite ref when Jean de Villiers tried to have a word as skipper.

What match was this?

I think Sandy is confused.

Berry has only officiated 3 Bok matches:

27 Jul 2019 New Zealand Draw: 16-16 WestPac Stadium, Wellington
06 Sep 2019 Japan Win: 41-7 Kumagaya Rugby Stadium, Saitama
24 Jul 2021 B&I Lions Lose: 17-22 Cape Town Stadium, Cape Town

Most Saffers I know are split on the Rassie issue. Using Mark Keohane's clickbait as some kind of indicator of how South Africans feel about it is going to give you the wrong impression. He's a Neil Francis/Stephen Jones style hack. He's also a cocaine fiend.

Rassie is a winner. He'll be back from this and hopefully will learn his lesson.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:32 am

Sards wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:59 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:56 pm

Really, so fucking what if a player feels disrespected.

This is not Kolisi's mess. Why even vokken involve him ffs.
None of the players should be involved with this. Nienaber should stay the vok out of it too. Let it be about Rassie but not the Springbok team.

Can see what you try here.

We all know you hate Rassie for not selecting enough Sharks players.

Really

FalseBayFC wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:12 am Most Saffers I know are split on the Rassie issue. Using Mark Keohane's clickbait as some kind of indicator of how South Africans feel about it is going to give you the wrong impression. He's a Neil Francis/Stephen Jones style hack. He's also a cocaine fiend.

Rassie is a winner. He'll be back from this and hopefully will learn his lesson.

Exactly. After Saturday's match, win or lose, this whole thing will die own as we won't see the Boks for another 6 months. Saffas will be way too busy abusing each other in the URC.

assfly wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:52 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:48 am South African rugby is talking itself out of test rugby. They appear to think they are on a crusade, that they've been terribly wronged and they're somehow the good guys who will clean up the game.

It's mass delusion. Saffa rugby is going to land with a very heavy bump and you'll wonder wtf has happened. Put simply, without referees you don't play a game, without a governing body you don't play a game. World Rugby and every referee in the world outside South Africa will always be on the side of Berry, that won't change regardless of how poorly you or anyone else thinks he refereed the first Lions test.

I've never seen anyone or anything choose to die on a lower hill than this one. It's tragic but it's so clear to see how this one pans out.

There is a point.
I understand what its like to sit on the other end. Decades of management experience.
If a team leader goes rouge and starts butting heads with management there really is no other option but to suspend the vokker. Break down structures and its all gone. You can try be lenient and give a lesser sanction but if the vokker is insistant on taking management head on you cut ties. Unfortunately the whole team suffers as a consequence and probably gets sanctioned too.

In South Africa its a lot more complex even. When an employee feels agrieved he plays the race card......

Sards wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:19 am There is a point.
I understand what its like to sit on the other end. Decades of management experience.
If a team leader goes rouge and starts butting heads with management there really is no other option but to suspend the vokker. Break down structures and its all gone. You can try be lenient and give a lesser sanction but if the vokker is insistant on taking management head on you cut ties. Unfortunately the whole team suffers as a consequence and probably gets sanctioned too.

In South Africa its a lot more complex even. When an employee feels agrieved he plays the race card......

I'll be honest, I stopped reading after his first sentence. Utter nonsense.