NPR

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:13 am**

To be fair to Scotland, they gave it a good lash, if the absolute red card that should have been has been awarded, we might be talking about a different outcome.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:24 am**

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:56 am
Uncle fester wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:42 am Scotland had to keep ball in hand to try and get scores back but it played into SA hands. I'd expect the ball to spend a lot of time in the air in the SA-Ireland match.
Nowhere near enough pressure on Libbock either. He is about as flakey as they come so how he wasn't a blubbering mess by the end is weird

His attacking play way outdoes his place kicking///and Faf was great at it.
We are much more expansive with him in the backline ,

Grant
Libbock
insert any of our wings
AE
Moodie
Insert any of our wings
Willie

Full of attacking flair

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:36 am**

I thought South Africa looked very clued up to the ways to pressure Scotland, I noticed that every time Schoeman received the ball in the midfield (where he's been a very effective carrier over the 6N) he got it with a saffa backrow attached. Pretty much without fail.

Hard to make significant progress against such a well-drilled, intense defence.

God, I wish Graham could have kept his hands free in the tackle - it was great cover defense to smother him and prevent any offload, but he never looked to free his arms. It's one thing not to pass, it's another to die with the ball.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:56 am**

Hard luck Scotland. Well played, but I don't think Rassie was kidding when he said it was the most important pool game for the Boks. They really did their homework to nullify the Scot's strengths.

Kriel should have been a yellow card and referred. But then again I though Russell's shoulder to KLA should have been more than a penalty.

Good luck against Ireland!

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:13 am**

Saffers managed Scotland well. Lineouts were a shambles but I really thought at 6-3 they could have kicked on and had a big 2nd half.

Well played Boks, now do Scotland a favour and destroy the Irish. See yous in the final.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:16 am**

Jock42 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:13 am Saffers managed Scotland well. Lineouts were a shambles but I really thought at 6-3 they could have kicked on and had a big 2nd half.

Well played Boks, now do Scotland a favour and destroy the Irish. See yous in the final.

They’ll try their best.
I hope that we do.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:21 am**

For the Boks, I thought we played very well. Our outstanding players were our backrow, and I thought Kriel did very well on defence.

It just felt like after our two tries, we knew we had them in the scrums so we could sit back a bit. By 60 minutes it was game over, you could tell by the Scots body language.

The only player I'll fault is De Allende. His distribution is simply horrific. I swear if he passed the ball more, or tried to offload, we'd score more tries.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:54 am**

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:21 am I thought Kriel did very well on defence.

Fair play if you get someone to bite

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:03 am**

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:54 am Fair play if you get someone to bite

If you excuse that one hit that should have been reviewed, he was very good at organising our defence like a good 13 should.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:35 am**

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:03 am
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:54 am Fair play if you get someone to bite

If you excuse that one hit that should have been reviewed, he was very good at organising our defence like a good 13 should.

I thought he was outstanding on defense.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:46 am**

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:21 am
The only player I'll fault is De Allende. His distribution is simply horrific. I swear if he passed the ball more, or tried to offload, we'd score more tries.

Plus he started the handbags after being tackled out.

Silly loss of discipline right there. Something that Erasmus has worked hard on eradicating.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:01 am**

Monk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:46 am
assfly wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:21 am
The only player I'll fault is De Allende. His distribution is simply horrific. I swear if he passed the ball more, or tried to offload, we'd score more tries.
Plus he started the handbags after being tackled out.

Silly loss of discipline right there. Something that Erasmus has worked hard on eradicating.

He was massive for the 2019 RWC campaign, but since then he's been a liability. He is a ball hog and has cost us countless opportunities over the last 4 years by taking the ball into contact and being held up, either in general play or even worse, over the goal line. It's like he just cannot adapt to the new law and keeps conceding goal-line drop outs negating all the work the team has done to build up some goal line pressure. It's infuriating.

I hope AE (or maybe Pollard) gets his jersey soon. He is a black hole in our attack. Doesn't create any options for Libbok on his outside, or Am/Kriel on his outside. It's where good attacking ball goes to die. I'm pretty sure every backline try we've scored in the last 4 years was due to a skip-ball past 12.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:24 am**

Ellendig is like Millies a bit flat headed. Spoeg en plak type.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:37 am**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:46 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:28 am With him in 10 the Boks surely changed from boring to exciting. Pollards place kicking can be shite at times but he is no Libbok in the other departments of flyhalf play.
100%

We'll talk again when we get to the knockouts where games are tighter and one missed penalty can cost you the game and tournament.

It's a kink in the armour and we cannot afford to have it as a weakness. Perhaps let Faf take all the kicks for post from now on.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:13 pm**

Monk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:46 am
assfly wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:21 am
The only player I'll fault is De Allende. His distribution is simply horrific. I swear if he passed the ball more, or tried to offload, we'd score more tries.
Plus he started the handbags after being tackled out.

Silly loss of discipline right there. Something that Erasmus has worked hard on eradicating.

Funniest thing. He took offense with the Scots when it was Willemse that pushed him out

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:16 pm**

average joe wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:37 am
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:46 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:28 am With him in 10 the Boks surely changed from boring to exciting. Pollards place kicking can be shite at times but he is no Libbok in the other departments of flyhalf play.
100%
We'll talk again when we get to the knockouts where games are tighter and one missed penalty can cost you the game and tournament.

It's a kink in the armour and we cannot afford to have it as a weakness. Perhaps let Faf take all the kicks for post from now on.

I've seen somebody bring up a stat (not sure how accurate it is to be fair) that leading into the 2019 RWC Pollard's kicking percentage for the Boks was under 70% as well. Anybody have an idea where one could find the actual number to validate such a claim?

Even if that is true, I'm still worried about Libbok's kicking. An average of 70% is manageable if it is a consistent 70%. If he consistently landed 5 from 7 in every match we wouldn't be having this conversation. He'd be a mediocre but passable kicker at International level.

The problem is that averages are misleading things. Libbok might be a 68% kicker on paper, but he is wildly inconsistent. He kicks 100% in 7 kicks in one match and then a 2 from 6 in the next. That match where be kicks at 33% just kills you. Does for the Stormers and will for the Boks at some point. You need a 85% kicker for the tight matches. You just do. I don't care what Siya says in the presser. I know he's standing up for a team mate, and showing support, but the margins are so thin at this level you have to be elite at performing the basics, whether it's the designated goal kicker or the hooker throwing in at lineouts. If you have an off day, it can easily cost your team the match.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:16 pm**

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:24 am Ellendig is like Millies a bit flat headed. Spoeg en plak type.

Millies took the Shield at the recent Paarl tournament.
But DDE is like no other Millies kid I know. Maybe 1. But his heart is good. He always comes for meet and greets. But dull as vok as a player. Being saying AE is better than him for years and years. Now everyone sees it...

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:27 pm**

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:16 pm
I've seen somebody bring up a stat (not sure how accurate it is to be fair) that leading into the 2019 RWC Pollard's kicking percentage for the Boks was under 70% as well. Anybody have an idea where one could find the actual number to validate such a claim?

Even if that is true, I'm still worried about Libbok's kicking. An average of 70% is manageable if it is a consistent 70%. If he consistently landed 5 from 7 in every match we wouldn't be having this conversation. He'd be a mediocre but passable kicker at International level.

The problem is that averages are misleading things. Libbok might be a 68% kicker on paper, but he is wildly inconsistent. He kicks 100% in 7 kicks in one match and then a 2 from 6 in the next. That match where be kicks at 33% just kills you. Does for the Stormers and will for the Boks at some point. You need a 85% kicker for the tight matches. You just do. I don't care what Siya says in the presser. I know he's standing up for a team mate, and showing support, but the margins are so thin at this level you have to be elite at performing the basics, whether it's the designated goal kicker or the hooker throwing in at lineouts. If you have an off day, it can easily cost your team the match.

I've also heard that Pollard kicking Stat bandied around but saw no proof.
Manie is fine. His kicking game will improve over time. Geez. Give him a chance. I've seen other players get chance after chance for years and still not step up. And still there.
It's a technical thing in his runup which has been done to death. TBH , Rassie and Nienaber seem determined to keep Pollard out of the squad. You have to ask yourself the reason why. Pollard is an international class flyhalf. Not some kid who has been promising for years and still has to deliver. So can easily step into the bok squad. Now you ask yourself. 1.What positions can Pollard cover
2. Who's position in the team will he take.
3. Who covers 10.....in the loosest term of it. When Manie is not there...currently.

There's the answer why Pollard is not there.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:41 pm**

Sards wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:27 pm I've also heard that Pollard kicking Stat bandied around but saw no proof.
Manie is fine. His kicking game will improve over time. Geez. Give him a chance. I've seen other players get chance after chance for years and still not step up. And still there.
It's a technical thing in his runup which has been done to death. TBH , Rassie and Nienaber seem determined to keep Pollard out of the squad. You have to ask yourself the reason why. Pollard is an international class flyhalf. Not some kid who has been promising for years and still has to deliver. So can easily step into the bok squad. Now you ask yourself. 1.What positions can Pollard cover
2. Who's position in the team will he take.
3. Who covers 10.....in the loosest term of it. When Manie is not there...currently.

There's the answer why Pollard is not there.

He was injured leading up to the RWC and missed the deadline to pass the fitness test. He's on the standby list. I'm pretty sure the first Bok that gets a tournament-ending injury will be subbed by Pollard.

It will be interesting to see where he slots into the Bok team though. I'd love him to take over from DDA at 12 and take on the goal kicking responsibilities.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:00 pm**

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:41 pm
Sards wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:27 pm I've also heard that Pollard kicking Stat bandied around but saw no proof.
Manie is fine. His kicking game will improve over time. Geez. Give him a chance. I've seen other players get chance after chance for years and still not step up. And still there.
It's a technical thing in his runup which has been done to death. TBH , Rassie and Nienaber seem determined to keep Pollard out of the squad. You have to ask yourself the reason why. Pollard is an international class flyhalf. Not some kid who has been promising for years and still has to deliver. So can easily step into the bok squad. Now you ask yourself. 1.What positions can Pollard cover
2. Who's position in the team will he take.
3. Who covers 10.....in the loosest term of it. When Manie is not there...currently.

There's the answer why Pollard is not there.
He was injured leading up to the RWC and missed the deadline to pass the fitness test. He's on the standby list. I'm pretty sure the first Bok that gets a tournament-ending injury will be subbed by Pollard.

It will be interesting to see where he slots into the Bok team though. I'd love him to take over from DDA at 12 and take on the goal kicking responsibilities.

He was training with his club the week the boks left .
Why would you put Pollard ahead of AE who is a proper 12.
I would have him on the bench to cover 12, 10 and fullback

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:01 pm**

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:16 pm
average joe wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:37 am
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:46 am

100%
We'll talk again when we get to the knockouts where games are tighter and one missed penalty can cost you the game and tournament.

It's a kink in the armour and we cannot afford to have it as a weakness. Perhaps let Faf take all the kicks for post from now on.
I've seen somebody bring up a stat (not sure how accurate it is to be fair) that leading into the 2019 RWC Pollard's kicking percentage for the Boks was under 70% as well. Anybody have an idea where one could find the actual number to validate such a claim?

Even if that is true, I'm still worried about Libbok's kicking. An average of 70% is manageable if it is a consistent 70%. If he consistently landed 5 from 7 in every match we wouldn't be having this conversation. He'd be a mediocre but passable kicker at International level.

The problem is that averages are misleading things. Libbok might be a 68% kicker on paper, but he is wildly inconsistent. He kicks 100% in 7 kicks in one match and then a 2 from 6 in the next. That match where be kicks at 33% just kills you. Does for the Stormers and will for the Boks at some point. You need a 85% kicker for the tight matches. You just do. I don't care what Siya says in the presser. I know he's standing up for a team mate, and showing support, but the margins are so thin at this level you have to be elite at performing the basics, whether it's the designated goal kicker or the hooker throwing in at lineouts. If you have an off day, it can easily cost your team the match.

He does fine when they're all relatively straight and struggles when they're at an angle. Libbok has issues with his action so to address it they tinker with his runup. So, you have a player that's so bad at kicking that he needs to runup at 90 degrees to the post to even get close on a straight kick. Can he be consistently accurate? Does he know how to compensate when the angle changes? What if there's wind? How much power does he lose? Just too many questions.

He needs to stop papering over the cracks with this runup nonsense and address his action. Problem is this is not high school anymore. There's no time to fix it now so just give the duties to someone more capable.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:05 pm**

Ouboet where is the next match thread you old fool.
Did you forget

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:17 pm**

In defence of the ref, I thought his chat with the players after the little scuffle was excellent

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:19 pm**

Monk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:46 am
assfly wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:21 am
The only player I'll fault is De Allende. His distribution is simply horrific. I swear if he passed the ball more, or tried to offload, we'd score more tries.
Plus he started the handbags after being tackled out.

No he didn’t. Jamie Richie ran in and slapped Graham (who was still lying on Kriel) on the back like a demented loon. Jessie probably objected to that and shoved Graham which kicked it all off…..

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:24 pm**

Sards wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:00 pm He was training with his club the week the boks left .
Why would you put Pollard ahead of AE who is a proper 12.
I would have him on the bench to cover 12, 10 and fullback

Pollard has been playing most of his rugby for the last 3 years at 12.
Our backline looks better with Libbok at 10, but we need Pollard's goal kicking boot.
DDA a one-trick-pony on attack.

So Libbok 10, Pollard 12 seems to kill 3 birds with one stone.

I'm a massive van of Esterhuizen, but I'm trying to solve 3 problems here. Get DDA out, keep Manie in, and find somebody who can start and kick goal reliably. Pollard at 12 seems to fit the bill.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:29 pm**

average joe wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:01 pm He does fine when they're all relatively straight and struggles when they're at an angle. Libbok has issues with his action so to address it they tinker with his runup. So, you have a player that's so bad at kicking that he needs to runup at 90 degrees to the post to even get close on a straight kick. Can he be consistently accurate? Does he know how to compensate when the angle changes? What if there's wind? How much power does he lose? Just too many questions.

He needs to stop papering over the cracks with this runup nonsense and address his action. Problem is this is not high school anymore. There's no time to fix it now so just give the duties to someone more capable.

Agree on all that. His technique has massive flaws that are so ingrained it's going to be a mission to unlearn them. His pre-kick ritual is also too long. Problem is all 3 other kickers have bad habits as well. Faf and Kolbe "stab" at the kick and Willemse has a bad "slice". They are also 3 players that are likely to be on the bench (Willemse), subbed (Faf) or rotated (Kolbe) so it makes it difficult to manage always having a kicker on the field.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:29 pm**

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:24 pm
Sards wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:00 pm He was training with his club the week the boks left .
Why would you put Pollard ahead of AE who is a proper 12.
I would have him on the bench to cover 12, 10 and fullback
Pollard has been playing most of his rugby for the last 3 years at 12.
Our backline looks better with Libbok at 10, but we need Pollard's goal kicking boot.
DDA a one-trick-pony on attack.

So Libbok 10, Pollard 12 seems to kill 3 birds with one stone.

I'm a massive van of Esterhuizen, but I'm trying to solve 3 problems here. Get DDA out, keep Manie in, and find somebody who can start and kick goal reliably. Pollard at 12 seems to fit the bill.

Pollard is international quality enough to cover 10, 12 and 15 from the bench. Personally I prefer specialist players to start

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:36 pm**

Sards wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:29 pm Pollard is international quality enough to cover 10, 12 and 15 from the bench. Personally I prefer specialist players to start

Personally I prefer a reliable kicker to start so we can build a lead while also squeezing them in the first half, so we can open up an run them ragged in the second. But that's just me.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:40 pm**

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:36 pm
Sards wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:29 pm Pollard is international quality enough to cover 10, 12 and 15 from the bench. Personally I prefer specialist players to start
Personally I prefer a reliable kicker to start so we can build a lead while also squeezing them in the first half, so we can open up an run them ragged in the second. But that's just me.

Pollard's kicking has been dodge as well in last couple of years tbf.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:45 pm**

Noone is talking about KLA....12 tries in 11 internationals

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:46 pm**

He stepped up when it mattered. His kicking was a huge part of us winning in 2019. Quite frankly I don't care if it's Pollard or Poepies Pienaar or they drag fat Fransie out of retirement, we are going to need a better place kicker very soon.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:46 pm**

Faf kicked bloody well. He is the first choice 9. So should always start big tests.
Kolbe is also a very capable kicker.

Either one of them will always have to be on the field.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:50 pm**

Chilli wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:46 pm Faf kicked bloody well. He is the first choice 9. So should always start big tests.
Kolbe is also a very capable kicker.

Either one of them will always have to be on the field.

Yoh. I was so impressed

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:00 pm**

Chilli wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:46 pm Faf kicked bloody well. He is the first choice 9. So should always start big tests.
Kolbe is also a very capable kicker.

Either one of them will always have to be on the field.

Commit to that and stick with it. Giving a professional 10 kicking lessons like he's still in school, at this level? And letting him practice kicking during must win games. Players have been dropped from the Springboks for less than this. I'm not saying drop him, he still offers something elsewhere but for gods sake and my sanity let someone ells fokon kick.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:04 pm**

Chilli wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:46 pm Faf kicked bloody well. He is the first choice 9. So should always start big tests.
Kolbe is also a very capable kicker.

Either one of them will always have to be on the field.

He kicked 50% didn't he? Slotted a tough corner conversion and then missed a penalty later?
Or am I misremembering?

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:12 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:19 pm
Monk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:46 am
assfly wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:21 am
The only player I'll fault is De Allende. His distribution is simply horrific. I swear if he passed the ball more, or tried to offload, we'd score more tries.
Plus he started the handbags after being tackled out.

No he didn’t. Jamie Richie ran in and slapped Graham (who was still lying on Kriel) on the back like a demented loon. Jessie probably objected to that and shoved Graham which kicked it all off…..

so who started the kerfuffle then Sandy?

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:13 pm**

Blake wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:04 pm
Chilli wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:46 pm Faf kicked bloody well. He is the first choice 9. So should always start big tests.
Kolbe is also a very capable kicker.

Either one of them will always have to be on the field.
He kicked 50% didn't he? Slotted a tough corner conversion and then missed a penalty later?
Or am I misremembering?

Master statistician at work here folks.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:14 pm**

Monk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:12 pm
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:19 pm
Monk wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:46 am

Plus he started the handbags after being tackled out.

No he didn’t. Jamie Richie ran in and slapped Graham (who was still lying on Kriel) on the back like a demented loon. Jessie probably objected to that and shoved Graham which kicked it all off…..
so who started the kerfuffle then Sandy?

Richie. I typed that already.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 3:30 pm**

LoveOfTheGame wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:13 pm
Blake wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:04 pm
Chilli wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:46 pm Faf kicked bloody well. He is the first choice 9. So should always start big tests.
Kolbe is also a very capable kicker.

Either one of them will always have to be on the field.
He kicked 50% didn't he? Slotted a tough corner conversion and then missed a penalty later?
Or am I misremembering?
Master statistician at work here folks.

No need to be a poes about it.

Just trying to find a solution that keeps Manie in the Bok 10 jersey, and still gives us a more reliable goal kicker.
I don't think a part-time kicker is the answer, not when it comes to a RWC knockout match.

Posted: **Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:42 pm**

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:46 am The first play of the game for the Boks: from the restart we send the ball all the way down the backline and send our runner (not sure who it was) crashing into Duhan. We literally went looking for him, and after he hardly featured. I fucking love this team.

He was hardly in the match. I saw an interview where it's revealed Russell has to help him with his confidence during matches sometimes, can only image it comes from having not always been the best on the park. I reckon he got flashbacks to schoolboy rugby early doors and his confidence was shot by the end, he went to the same school as Gelant and Libbok (Hoerskool Outeniqua, George), being made to look like a fool by Libbok and Arendse probably wasn't the first time some thing like that has happened, barely even tried to chase knew he was done and gave up.

NPR

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