Climate Change - Why don't we care?

Where goats go to escape
inactionman
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Tichtheid wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:44 pm
inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:34 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:30 pm


The irony can't be lost here - a particular type of personal vehicle is playing its part in making itself completely unnecessary as the world heats up, but still it's these vehicles we strive for, the ones advertised driving over snowy landscapes etc.
You're projecting a bit here, to put it mildly.

I'm what?

I have no idea what you mean.

We don't have frozen roads like we used to, if southern Scotland sees snow this winter it will be for days rather than the months of my youth.

Emissions and the manufacture of huge 4x4s are part of the personal input to climate change

What part of that is projection?
I had to drive home during the freeze of 2017 which was more than a bit hairy. I've had many other sketchy drives since then, it happens. As an aside, I think it's a mistake to think we're not going to have freezes - climate change doesn't always means no cold temps, it means higher averages but more extreme.

Anyway, apologies, my post was a bit curt

It's projecting to say that these types of vehicle are simply marketing wet dreams - the implication of your statement, or have I misinterpreted?

The majority of Land Rovers are seriously engineered, highly capable vehicles which actually do what is professed. Many other SUVs do not. You can argue whether people find value in such capability, you might not, but I have done and continue to do so.

I completely concede that the lion's share of these vehicles will never leave the M25/Central Belt or the garage if the sun isn't out, but there are some that do see bad conditions and bad roads.
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Tichtheid
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inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:58 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:44 pm
inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:34 pm

You're projecting a bit here, to put it mildly.

I'm what?

I have no idea what you mean.

We don't have frozen roads like we used to, if southern Scotland sees snow this winter it will be for days rather than the months of my youth.

Emissions and the manufacture of huge 4x4s are part of the personal input to climate change

What part of that is projection?
I had to drive home during the freeze of 2017 which was more than a bit hairy. I've had many other sketchy drives since then, it happens. As an aside, I think it's a mistake to think we're not going to have freezes - climate change doesn't always means no cold temps, it means higher averages but more extreme.

Anyway, apologies, my post was a bit curt

It's projecting to say that these types of vehicle are simply marketing wet dreams - the implication of your statement, or have I misinterpreted?

The majority of Land Rovers are seriously engineered, highly capable vehicles which actually do what is professed. Many other SUVs do not. You can argue whether people find value in such capability, you might not, but I have done and continue to do so.

I completely concede that the lion's share of these vehicles will never leave the M25/Central Belt or the garage if the sun isn't out, but there are some that do see bad conditions and bad roads.


As someone who used Land Rovers as an every day working tool, I know what they can do and what other vehicles can't do (the myth about a Citroen 2CV running over a ploughed field isn't true)

My point is really that in the vast majority of cases, the drivers are not carrying fence posts, wire and deer netting up very steep mountain slopes like I was. They are not pulling trailers of livestock or hay bales etc.

Most roads are passable without the top end 4x4s, the times they are needed are generally when one shouldn't be driving - getting a train last minute every month for several years will be cheaper than buying a Range Rover compared to a Ford Focus.

Ach, whatever, I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty, the real targets are at corporate and national level
inactionman
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Tichtheid wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 11:13 pm
inactionman wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:58 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:44 pm


I'm what?

I have no idea what you mean.

We don't have frozen roads like we used to, if southern Scotland sees snow this winter it will be for days rather than the months of my youth.

Emissions and the manufacture of huge 4x4s are part of the personal input to climate change

What part of that is projection?
I had to drive home during the freeze of 2017 which was more than a bit hairy. I've had many other sketchy drives since then, it happens. As an aside, I think it's a mistake to think we're not going to have freezes - climate change doesn't always means no cold temps, it means higher averages but more extreme.

Anyway, apologies, my post was a bit curt

It's projecting to say that these types of vehicle are simply marketing wet dreams - the implication of your statement, or have I misinterpreted?

The majority of Land Rovers are seriously engineered, highly capable vehicles which actually do what is professed. Many other SUVs do not. You can argue whether people find value in such capability, you might not, but I have done and continue to do so.

I completely concede that the lion's share of these vehicles will never leave the M25/Central Belt or the garage if the sun isn't out, but there are some that do see bad conditions and bad roads.


As someone who used Land Rovers as an every day working tool, I know what they can do and what other vehicles can't do (the myth about a Citroen 2CV running over a ploughed field isn't true)

My point is really that in the vast majority of cases, the drivers are not carrying fence posts, wire and deer netting up very steep mountain slopes like I was. They are not pulling trailers of livestock or hay bales etc.

Most roads are passable without the top end 4x4s, the times they are needed are generally when one shouldn't be driving - getting a train last minute every month for several years will be cheaper than buying a Range Rover compared to a Ford Focus.

Ach, whatever, I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty, the real targets are at corporate and national level
Well, yes, I could probably have driven on the roads in my wife's old FIAT 500 but it's certainly safer - and a lot less mentally exhausting - in my Disco Sport.

Not that it really matters, but my car is not top-end, it's almost the exact same price as a BMW 3 series Touring or a Volvo V60, which are comparable size with exception of height. It's just very good in all weathers, something I'd not really say the same about for my other cars.
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Guy Smiley
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So, this weird tangent sprung out of epwc saying he'd driven home in the storms in a Qashgai and felt fine in that. The line of thinking there was that many of the larger 4WDs on the roads weren't necessary.

There was no suggestion the Qashgai was equal to or better than a LR and yet we've had post after post defending the, errr... Defender and family as if there had been some direct criticsm of the abilities or strengths of LR models.

And yet, here we are.
Biffer
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Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 6:58 am So, this weird tangent sprung out of epwc saying he'd driven home in the storms in a Qashgai and felt fine in that. The line of thinking there was that many of the larger 4WDs on the roads weren't necessary.

There was no suggestion the Qashgai was equal to or better than a LR and yet we've had post after post defending the, errr... Defender and family as if there had been some direct criticsm of the abilities or strengths of LR models.

And yet, here we are.
Very good demonstration of the problems we face trying to reduce emissions imo.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
epwc
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Biffer wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 7:02 am
Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 6:58 am So, this weird tangent sprung out of epwc saying he'd driven home in the storms in a Qashgai and felt fine in that. The line of thinking there was that many of the larger 4WDs on the roads weren't necessary.

There was no suggestion the Qashgai was equal to or better than a LR and yet we've had post after post defending the, errr... Defender and family as if there had been some direct criticsm of the abilities or strengths of LR models.

And yet, here we are.
Very good demonstration of the problems we face trying to reduce emissions imo.
Yep
inactionman
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Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 6:58 am So, this weird tangent sprung out of epwc saying he'd driven home in the storms in a Qashgai and felt fine in that. The line of thinking there was that many of the larger 4WDs on the roads weren't necessary.

There was no suggestion the Qashgai was equal to or better than a LR and yet we've had post after post defending the, errr... Defender and family as if there had been some direct criticsm of the abilities or strengths of LR models.

And yet, here we are.
It actually sprung out of someone telling someone else that they know their requirements better.

The mistake I made - and you'd think I'd know better by now - was in actually discussing it.

Lesson learnt. Not worth discussing.
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Hal Jordan
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Hell, most roads are passable in a well driven 2WD car with winter tyres on. If it's worse than that you probably shouldn't be driving for almost any reason other than a dire emergency.
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Sandstorm
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I think we all need to be honest and admit that the Quasqai is a girl's car and we'd much rather drive a Range Rover in the rain.
epwc
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inactionman wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:19 amIt actually sprung out of someone telling someone else that they know their requirements better.
Absolutely not my intention, if that's the way you took it then maybe I didn't phrase it as well as I could.

I also said that if the conditions are that bad you probably shouldn't be driving, which I think is a fair comment. In appalling conditions it really doesn't matter how good your vehicle is, you're still subject to whatever other hazards might be out there; falling trees, landslides, unseen potholes, stupid drivers etc.
epwc
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Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:38 am I think we all need to be honest and admit that the Quasqai is a girl's car and we'd much rather drive a Range Rover in the rain.
UKPN working at ours today, fella in brand new Discovery on road tyres just drove across 3 fields to get to the section of power line that they're looking at. Yep, you're right.
inactionman
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Hal Jordan wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:36 am Hell, most roads are passable in a well driven 2WD car with winter tyres on. If it's worse than that you probably shouldn't be driving for almost any reason other than a dire emergency.
I could do it on a unicycle. I could do it in a 4x4. Is one safer and less tiring than the other?

Yes, sadly, pretty much dire situations for about 5 years. Both in-laws and mother dying of cancer. Now my brother has it. Honestly, Scotland is cursed.
inactionman
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epwc wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:40 am
inactionman wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:19 amIt actually sprung out of someone telling someone else that they know their requirements better.
Absolutely not my intention, if that's the way you took it then maybe I didn't phrase it as well as I could.

I also said that if the conditions are that bad you probably shouldn't be driving, which I think is a fair comment. In appalling conditions it really doesn't matter how good your vehicle is, you're still subject to whatever other hazards might be out there; falling trees, landslides, unseen potholes, stupid drivers etc.
No probs - It's the perils of holding a conversation by message board, tone and intent don't really come through.

I'd really rather not be driving most of the time, but sometimes it's not easily avoided.

Eta: just an idle addition, but I did go for a few long days when I first landed in Scotland, one of my first trips was up to Aviemore over winter. It had snowed but the roads were clear, however it started snowing again and the windscreen wipers and washers froze when I went over the pass at Dalwhinnie. It did occur to me - rather late in the day - that I probably shouldn't be out in that.
epwc
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inactionman wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:44 am Yes, sadly, pretty much dire situations for about 5 years. Both in-laws and mother dying of cancer. Now my brother has it. Honestly, Scotland is cursed.
I've had a run of several deaths to deal with in the last decade, what I'd say is that you're no good to anyone if you end up dead or injured in a RTA due to weather conditions or just plain fatigue. Be careful, above all else.
bok_viking
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It looks like South Africa is also going to start paying more attention to EV's etc. The president have announced that they will introduce rebates for EV's and Hybrids with EV's getting the biggest. They had to do it though if they want to save South Africa's car manufacturing industry in the long run, most of the countries they export cars too are already into the EV changeover, so if they want to keep that manufacturing sector they will need to show interest in it as well. Though the guys like Toyota, etc. that manufacturer here are not that fantastic in EV's right now. The Toyota CEO in SA mentioned they are a bit nervous with the Chinese brands starting to make serious inroads in SA with hybrids. Though the import taxes on cars into SA still make Chinese cars very expensive compared to other countries. But if those Chinese brands decide to manufacture in SA, the legacy brands here will be screwed.
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Sandstorm
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inactionman wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:44 am
Yes, sadly, pretty much dire situations for about 5 years. Both in-laws and mother dying of cancer. Now my brother has it. Honestly, Scotland is cursed.
Horrible situation, mate. Best wishes to your family and look after yourself at the same time. As epwc said, get lots of rest.
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Hal Jordan
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Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:38 am I think we all need to be honest and admit that the Quasqai is a girl's car and we'd much rather drive a Range Rover in the rain.
We can keep warm as it burns merrily by the roadside.
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Guy Smiley
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Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:38 am I think we all need to be honest and admit that the Quasqai is a girl's car and we'd much rather drive a Range Rover in the rain.
I gather you remember Opensides' impassioned defense of his on the old bored?
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Sandstorm
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Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:11 pm
Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:38 am I think we all need to be honest and admit that the Quasqai is a girl's car and we'd much rather drive a Range Rover in the rain.
I gather you remember Opensides' impassioned defense of his on the old bored?
I do indeed :lol:
Slick
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Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:11 pm
Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:38 am I think we all need to be honest and admit that the Quasqai is a girl's car and we'd much rather drive a Range Rover in the rain.
I gather you remember Opensides' impassioned defense of his on the old bored?
Didn't Globus also rant about his after someone spotted it on StreetMap?
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Hal Jordan
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bok_viking wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 10:08 am It looks like South Africa is also going to start paying more attention to EV's etc. The president have announced that they will introduce rebates for EV's and Hybrids with EV's getting the biggest. They had to do it though if they want to save South Africa's car manufacturing industry in the long run, most of the countries they export cars too are already into the EV changeover, so if they want to keep that manufacturing sector they will need to show interest in it as well. Though the guys like Toyota, etc. that manufacturer here are not that fantastic in EV's right now. The Toyota CEO in SA mentioned they are a bit nervous with the Chinese brands starting to make serious inroads in SA with hybrids. Though the import taxes on cars into SA still make Chinese cars very expensive compared to other countries. But if those Chinese brands decide to manufacture in SA, the legacy brands here will be screwed.
Toyota are in serious danger of having done to them what they did to American car brands back in the day. Their obsession with FCEVs has put them two generations of car behind current EVs, their Random Password Generator offering is a great EV for 5 or 6 years ago in terms of range and charging speed.
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Sandstorm
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Slick wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:50 pm
Guy Smiley wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:11 pm
Sandstorm wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:38 am I think we all need to be honest and admit that the Quasqai is a girl's car and we'd much rather drive a Range Rover in the rain.
I gather you remember Opensides' impassioned defense of his on the old bored?
Didn't Globus also rant about his after someone spotted it on StreetMap?
"Best car in the world...." apparently
petej
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Hal Jordan wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:52 pm
bok_viking wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 10:08 am It looks like South Africa is also going to start paying more attention to EV's etc. The president have announced that they will introduce rebates for EV's and Hybrids with EV's getting the biggest. They had to do it though if they want to save South Africa's car manufacturing industry in the long run, most of the countries they export cars too are already into the EV changeover, so if they want to keep that manufacturing sector they will need to show interest in it as well. Though the guys like Toyota, etc. that manufacturer here are not that fantastic in EV's right now. The Toyota CEO in SA mentioned they are a bit nervous with the Chinese brands starting to make serious inroads in SA with hybrids. Though the import taxes on cars into SA still make Chinese cars very expensive compared to other countries. But if those Chinese brands decide to manufacture in SA, the legacy brands here will be screwed.
Toyota are in serious danger of having done to them what they did to American car brands back in the day. Their obsession with FCEVs has put them two generations of car behind current EVs, their Random Password Generator offering is a great EV for 5 or 6 years ago in terms of range and charging speed.
Aren't Toyota looking quite likely to bring solid cell batteries to EVs first thus skipping ahead.
epwc
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petej wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 10:26 pm Aren't Toyota looking quite likely to bring solid cell batteries to EVs first thus skipping ahead.
Nope, it’ll be a Chinese brand
epwc
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To bring the thread back on topic:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cp9z0l15yr7o
dpedin
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Played golf every day this week and sitting in my shorts ready for a round later this morning. It is the first week in November and the grass is still growing. This past 10 days weather in Edinburgh has been great for golf but a bit worrying otherwise - yesterday it was 16 degrees, no wind and just a very balmy day on the course. Forecast for next week is more of the same. Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying the weather and the golf but to be playing in shorts in November in Scotland is just a bit daft! And yes I understand the difference between climate and weather but something has shifted?
Slick
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dpedin wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:33 am Played golf every day this week and sitting in my shorts ready for a round later this morning. It is the first week in November and the grass is still growing. This past 10 days weather in Edinburgh has been great for golf but a bit worrying otherwise - yesterday it was 16 degrees, no wind and just a very balmy day on the course. Forecast for next week is more of the same. Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying the weather and the golf but to be playing in shorts in November in Scotland is just a bit daft! And yes I understand the difference between climate and weather but something has shifted?
I'd love to see the statistics for wind in Edinburgh. I know it is a windy city at the best of times, and the last week or so has been unusually calm, but it just feels that this year it has been almost non stop.
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Sandstorm
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dpedin wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:33 am Played golf every day this week and sitting in my shorts ready for a round later this morning. It is the first week in November and the grass is still growing. This past 10 days weather in Edinburgh has been great for golf but a bit worrying otherwise - yesterday it was 16 degrees, no wind and just a very balmy day on the course. Forecast for next week is more of the same. Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying the weather and the golf but to be playing in shorts in November in Scotland is just a bit daft! And yes I understand the difference between climate and weather but something has shifted?
Very late start to summer in 2024 - I only wore shorts to work in July FFS - and hence possibly why the mild temps have shifted so far into the autumn. October is S England was nicer than June!
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JM2K6
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It was like 16-18 degrees at the end of October for a day or two, iirc. Mad shit.

I killed one of the biggest mosquitoes I've ever seen at the start of November. Surely nothing wrong with this state of affairs.
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Hal Jordan
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The COP summits are complete bullshit, but, for the second summit in a row, here are the hosts using it to look to promote fossil fuel deals on the side.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crmzvdn9e18o
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Hal Jordan
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epwc wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 12:36 am
petej wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 10:26 pm Aren't Toyota looking quite likely to bring solid cell batteries to EVs first thus skipping ahead.
Nope, it’ll be a Chinese brand
Yep, Toyota are using solid state jam tomorrow in the same way fossil fuel companies are using CCS. Slow walk. Delay.
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Sandstorm
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JM2K6 wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:23 am It was like 16-18 degrees at the end of October for a day or two, iirc. Mad shit.

I killed one of the biggest mosquitoes I've ever seen at the start of November. Surely nothing wrong with this state of affairs.
:lol:
bok_viking
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Sandstorm wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:41 am
JM2K6 wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:23 am It was like 16-18 degrees at the end of October for a day or two, iirc. Mad shit.

I killed one of the biggest mosquitoes I've ever seen at the start of November. Surely nothing wrong with this state of affairs.
:lol:

:lol: Yeah this year we have seen temperatures being 30 deg. one day and then snow in KZN the next before going back to 30 deg a few days later, and then the same thing happens in the Eastern Cape with snow in November.
bok_viking
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Hal Jordan wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:31 am
epwc wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 12:36 am
petej wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 10:26 pm Aren't Toyota looking quite likely to bring solid cell batteries to EVs first thus skipping ahead.
Nope, it’ll be a Chinese brand
Yep, Toyota are using solid state jam tomorrow in the same way fossil fuel companies are using CCS. Slow walk. Delay.
The problem with Toyota and solid state batteries is that if they had to produce in Japan, the battery most likely be quite expensive, so you would only see it in their luxury cars if at all, so I agree it will most likely be a Chinese manufactured battery if they want to be competitive at all. BYD and one or 2 other chinese brands are also in the solid state frame and most likely will have cars on the road with solid state before Toyota does.

Toyota have been talking a lot over the last few years with very little to show for it. If I remember correctly they originally threw all their research behind fuel cell tech as the next big thing but that came back to bite them as they fell far behind on EV tech as a result.
epwc
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Finally someone starting to look at financial implications:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... tral-banks
inactionman
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epwc wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:26 pm Finally someone starting to look at financial implications:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... tral-banks
I work for a bank and they are taking this all seriously, although like all things they seem to do it a bit half-arsed and only vaguely semi-competently.

They're paying for data feeds related to climate risk which are already playing into mortgage and lending calculations. They're also reducing appetite for lending to certain sectors and end uses (e.g. they'll ask how much of a logistics fleet is electric) but that's not to say they won't lend

I took some heart from this, even if in many cases it's just for credit risk - to ensure any securities don't become worthless e.g. mortgaged properties become flooded. It's still giving a financial impetus.
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Niegs
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Has the world 'surrendered' to climate change?

This year's UN climate summit, COP29, opens in Baku, Azerbaijan, on Monday. Since the signing of the Paris Agreement in 2015, most climate discussions have centred on the need to keep global warming below 2 C, and ideally below 1.5 C. But Swedish academics Andreas Malm and Wim Carton think many of our leaders have resigned themselves in the last decade to reaching neither of those goals.

In their provocative new book, Overshoot: How the World Surrendered to Climate Breakdown, they examine how politicians, business leaders and, yes, even some climate scientists have downplayed the imperative to make deep emissions cuts. Malm and Carton call it an "overshoot philosophy": a belief that it's impossible to meet our emissions targets, but that we'll be able to cool the planet at a later point, using some as-yet unproven technology.

Malm and Carton spoke to CBC's Andre Mayer via Zoom from Paris and Mӓlmo, Sweden, respectively.

Q: The subtitle of the book is 'How the World Surrendered to Climate Breakdown.' When do you think the surrender began?

Wim Carton: We've never really tried to mitigate climate change. So in that sense, we started by surrendering. But I mean, if we take the overshoot notion as kind of the organizing principle here … this idea that, you know, we can somehow reach these [carbon reduction] targets by going past them and then returning, by lowering temperatures, by sucking CO2 out of the atmosphere, then I guess the surrender began around 2007, thereabouts.

Andreas Malm: You can potentially, if you want to be chronologically specific, focus on the period between 2018 and 2022. Because it was in 2018 that the special report on 1.5 degrees was published by the [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change]. And that was a moment in time when it was almost universally recognized that we need to cap the warming at 1.5. This was also the moment in time when the climate movement began to surge in the Global North, and [the emergence of] Extinction Rebellion…. This surge continued until the outbreak of the pandemic in early 2020, and then it completely came to an end.

In these years, you had the International Energy Agency pronouncing very clearly that if we want to stay at or below 1.5, we cannot have any new fossil fuel installations.

Then what happened in 2021 and 2022 was a complete contradiction of this, in that you had this wave, this new cycle of profits from fossil fuels and reinvestment in them.

Q: The period you're referring to was after most of the restrictions of the COVID-19 pandemic had been lifted. In the early part of the pandemic, when people were being urged to stay at home, global emissions dropped precipitously. Some climate reporters thought this could be a dress rehearsal for driving emissions down permanently. This was naive, wasn't it?

Andreas Malm: This was a widely shared feeling. And I was, I think, prone to having this feeling as well, that this could be like a moment of rupture. All the flights coming to a standstill and nature returning into cities and the skies being clear … yeah, it was a moment when people could perceive a different way of life.

But all of that just, you know, ended in absolutely nothing. An obvious explanation for that is that none of these emissions cuts happened because governments wanted to act on climate. They only happened as an accidental byproduct of trying to contain the spread of the virus.


Q: In the book, you argue that "local resistance" is perhaps the most productive way to reduce oil dependency. Could you elaborate?

Wim Carton: We give this example of Colombia, of Ecuador — places where there are social movements. And obviously this is in many cases people who have been directly affected by the other effects of the fossil fuel industry, right? Not just climate change, but also its direct environmental effects, and [they] push back on the basis of that. I think you need that kind of … ground-anchored movement to be able to push back. We think that ultimately any change will have to happen through the state, but the only way we can capture the state or that you can change the direction of the state is through these mass movements of resistance, so yeah, that's the only pathway that I think seems feasible.

—Andre Mayer
I didn't listen, but there's a podcast in the link:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/what-on ... -1.7376543
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Hal Jordan
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epwc wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:26 pm Finally someone starting to look at financial implications:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... tral-banks
No wonder the GOP wants to gut the Fed. Can't have Government institutions falling off the party line.
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Tichtheid
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Hal Jordan wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:20 pm
epwc wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:26 pm Finally someone starting to look at financial implications:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... tral-banks
No wonder the GOP wants to gut the Fed. Can't have Government institutions falling off the party line.

The fossil fuel industry could still be making a packet using renewables if they had invested properly 30 to 40 years ago and switched over, they chose not to. It was easier* to lobby against change.

By the mid 80s the budget for research into the entire renewable energy industry didn't match 1% of research funding into nuclear power.

Heavy industry, manufacturing, steelmaking etc should be using renewables by now


*easier as in short term profits
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