Thing about Starmer is if you get furious and demand a resignation every week it loses its impact (ala Blackford where its pretty much expected and impotent). The leader of the opposition cant depose a PM by furious denunciations but I think by keeping his powder relatively dry until today has helped increase the drama in PMQs and the resulting crisis for the PM
He has absolutely no charisma. I think people think he has charisma because everyone says he's "forensic" and a "former prosecutor" but there's really nothing there.
I can't imagine anyone correlates those with charisma. If anything people mentione those in his defence when talking about him lacking charisma.
He was pretty angry today and came across very well. Charisma would help him more when it comes to appealing to voters but when it comes to giving Boris a kicking Starmer doesn't need charisma, just integrity and some passion.
I think you do as when you think of prosecution lawyers you do think of charisma as most people's interaction with them is through fictionalised TV and film.
I can see that. "Forensic", though? If anything it suggests the complete opposite.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:46 pm
by SaintK
So the first senior Cabinet Minister has ssomething to say on the matter I WASN'T THERE!!!!
A spokeswoman for Dominic Raab, the justice secretary and deputy first minister, has said Raab it is “categorically untrue” to say Raab was at the No 10 party on 20 May 2020. “He wasn’t invited and didn’t attend,” the spokeswoman said.
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:14 pm
Everyone talks about Starmer being “forensic” and “detailed” due to his legal background, but he’s just a bit shit at this really
He has absolutely no charisma. I think people think he has charisma because everyone says he's "forensic" and a "former prosecutor" but there's really nothing there.
I can't imagine anyone correlates those with charisma. If anything people mentione those in his defence when talking about him lacking charisma.
He was pretty angry today and came across very well. Charisma would help him more when it comes to appealing to voters but when it comes to giving Boris a kicking Starmer doesn't need charisma, just integrity and some passion.
I think folk are mixing up politics with The Apprentice tv show? I don't want a British version of Trump as PM, we tried the 'charismatic showman' and all we got was this offensive, thick and dishonest tub of lard. I want someone who is intelligent and has at least some principles and sense of public duty, I would honestly look forward to a competent, honest bore as PM rather than this incompetent, crooked, sociopathic clown. Starmer screwed the Blonde Bumblecunt into the ground today, he did exactly what he needed to do and finished off excellently with the question about the poor individual who had met the BB in No10 garden after her father had died. The BB had nowhere to go with his response and just whimpered off into the corner.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:14 pm
by fishfoodie
Still the most damning account of why he's singularly unsuited to any public office.
and remind any Tory sheep of this assessment; when they start trotting out the excuse of how they couldn't have known how disastrous an PM he would be.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:42 pm
by Hal Jordan
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:46 pm
So the first senior Cabinet Minister has ssomething to say on the matter I WASN'T THERE!!!!
A spokeswoman for Dominic Raab, the justice secretary and deputy first minister, has said Raab it is “categorically untrue” to say Raab was at the No 10 party on 20 May 2020. “He wasn’t invited and didn’t attend,” the spokeswoman said.
Who the fuck would invite him to a party anyway?
As for Starmer's "forensic" tag, that tends to get thrown at him by bimbos and Corbynites as an insult.
A fair few legal Tweets about how carefully worded the "apology" was, with maximum wiggle room.
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:46 pm
So the first senior Cabinet Minister has ssomething to say on the matter I WASN'T THERE!!!!
A spokeswoman for Dominic Raab, the justice secretary and deputy first minister, has said Raab it is “categorically untrue” to say Raab was at the No 10 party on 20 May 2020. “He wasn’t invited and didn’t attend,” the spokeswoman said.
Who the fuck would invite him to a party anyway?
As for Starmer's "forensic" tag, that tends to get thrown at him by bimbos and Corbynites as an insult.
A fair few legal Tweets about how carefully worded the "apology" was, with maximum wiggle room.
I wonder if you can get one of those Nodding Dog things for your car; but with Raabs head on it ?
That was what he looked like during PMQs; & with about the same level of intellect.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:43 pm
by I like neeps
So on the same day - the prime minister lies to the country about not following rules he set and enforced during a public health and economic crisis, the government were found at the high court to have illegally fast tracked public procurement laws in a corruption scandal involving billions of the taxpayers money. And the Queen's son gets called to civil court in the US accused of having sex with a sex trafficking victim.
Rule Brittania, Brittania rules the waves.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:58 pm
by fishfoodie
I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:43 pm
So on the same day - the prime minister lies to the country about not following rules he set and enforced during a public health and economic crisis, the government were found at the high court to have illegally fast tracked public procurement laws in a corruption scandal involving billions of the taxpayers money. And the Queen's son gets called to civil court in the US accused of having sex with a sex trafficking victim.
Rule Brittania, Brittania rules the waves.
It was noticeable, how quick out of the gates the Scottish Tories were; in getting their digs in; & calling for his resignation !
The last 5 years; have put the Union, & the Monarchy on life support; & I wouldn't bet on either lasting too much longer; say twenty years for the Union, & about the same for the UKs current constitutional setup; for the Monarch.
I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:43 pm
So on the same day - the prime minister lies to the country about not following rules he set and enforced during a public health and economic crisis, the government were found at the high court to have illegally fast tracked public procurement laws in a corruption scandal involving billions of the taxpayers money. And the Queen's son gets called to civil court in the US accused of having sex with a sex trafficking victim.
Rule Brittania, Brittania rules the waves.
It was noticeable, how quick out of the gates the Scottish Tories were; in getting their digs in; & calling for his resignation !
The last 5 years; have put the Union, & the Monarchy on life support; & I wouldn't bet on either lasting too much longer; say twenty years for the Union, & about the same for the UKs current constitutional setup; for the Monarch.
Also worth rememberingthe Douglas Ross made a big show of nominating / voting for Johnson as leader.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:01 pm
by salanya
Rees Mogg showing his true colours.
Scottish Conservative leader Ross is just a 'lightweight figure'
So his opinion that Boris should resign doesn't count....
JRM is such a slippery and despicable character.
Not sure why Kirsty Wark is accepting that it's okay to discuss the 'event' as a 'work party' - nobody was having work parties as they weren't allowed, whether inside or in a garden.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:06 pm
by GogLais
salanya wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:01 pm
Rees Mogg showing his true colours.
Scottish Conservative leader Ross is just a 'lightweight figure'
So his opinion that Boris should resign doesn't count....
JRM is such a slippery and despicable character.
Not sure why Kirsty Wark is accepting that it's okay to discuss the 'event' as a 'work party' - nobody was having work parties as they weren't allowed, whether inside or in a garden.
Indeed. The email invitation is 100% a party. I can’t imagine that his PPS issued that invitation to a hundred people without knowing that he had the PM’s approval. That being the case, what BoJo did afterwards is almost irrelevant. He gave his consent to an illegal gathering.
salanya wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:01 pm
Rees Mogg showing his true colours.
Scottish Conservative leader Ross is just a 'lightweight figure'
So his opinion that Boris should resign doesn't count....
JRM is such a slippery and despicable character.
Not sure why Kirsty Wark is accepting that it's okay to discuss the 'event' as a 'work party' - nobody was having work parties as they weren't allowed, whether inside or in a garden.
Indeed. The email invitation is 100% a party. I can’t imagine that his PPS issued that invitation to a hundred people without knowing that he had the PM’s approval. That being the case, what BoJo did afterwards is almost irrelevant. He gave his consent to an illegal gathering.
No, No. He has now given the Official "interpretation"; of the law; & that is that because the garden was attached to the workplace; it must have been a workplace; "gathering".
For millions like me who've been working from home for the last two years; this is a great comfort; especially if they had been illegally fined for having people in their; "workplace"/garden; because now they can demand their fines s refunded
The longer this cocksucker stays in Office; the better for the UK; because it'll be a decade before the Tories get back in power; after he's decapitated any electable alternative leadership; & given the Labour Party, all the ammo they need to get a Norway style deal; & go on a huge building plan; to buy votes with homes.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:28 pm
by salanya
It doesn't matter if the garden was attached to the workplace, and whether it may or may not be considered a workplace itself. The garden would definitely be better ventilated, so was better than Boris suggesting he'd ask them all to go inside.
But you weren't allowed to have work socials. Full stop.
Now there's having a nice lunch with the handful of people you share an office with, but 100 people were invited, 30-40 people attended, bringing in alcohol to the workplace. That's a large number, with a good amount of alcohol in their system: you can't square that with the laws of only meeting with one other person outside, as confirmed by Oliver Dowden that day.
The argument/excuse just doesn't wash.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:36 pm
by fishfoodie
salanya wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:28 pm
It doesn't matter if the garden was attached to the workplace, and whether it may or may not be considered a workplace itself. The garden would definitely be better ventilated, so was better than Boris suggesting he'd ask them all to go inside.
But you weren't allowed to have work socials. Full stop.
Now there's having a nice lunch with the handful of people you share an office with, but 100 people were invited, 30-40 people attended, bringing in alcohol to the workplace. That's a large number, with a good amount of alcohol in their system: you can't square that with the laws of only meeting with one other person outside, as confirmed by Oliver Dowden that day.
The argument/excuse just doesn't wash.
The reality is that the Law excluded Government offices; & all this is just theater; because when the moment is right; that's what any report will say.
It's fucking unfair; & the epitome of; "one law for us...."; but that's what the statute says.
salanya wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:01 pm
Rees Mogg showing his true colours.
Scottish Conservative leader Ross is just a 'lightweight figure'
So his opinion that Boris should resign doesn't count....
JRM is such a slippery and despicable character.
Not sure why Kirsty Wark is accepting that it's okay to discuss the 'event' as a 'work party' - nobody was having work parties as they weren't allowed, whether inside or in a garden.
Indeed. The email invitation is 100% a party. I can’t imagine that his PPS issued that invitation to a hundred people without knowing that he had the PM’s approval. That being the case, what BoJo did afterwards is almost irrelevant. He gave his consent to an illegal gathering.
No, No. He has now given the Official "interpretation"; of the law; & that is that because the garden was attached to the workplace; it must have been a workplace; "gathering".
For millions like me who've been working from home for the last two years; this is a great comfort; especially if they had been illegally fined for having people in their; "workplace"/garden; because now they can demand their fines s refunded
The longer this cocksucker stays in Office; the better for the UK; because it'll be a decade before the Tories get back in power; after he's decapitated any electable alternative leadership; & given the Labour Party, all the ammo they need to get a Norway style deal; & go on a huge building plan; to buy votes with homes.
I think Johnson can still worm his way to another election victory. He just has to wait it out. This conservative party doesn't have the guts to do to Johnson what they did to Thatcher. The electorate will forget as covid recedes. The only thing that would doom him is a house price collapse.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:50 pm
by salanya
He's gotten away with so much, and depending on the report he might get through this. Though apparently there are still more revelations to come....
But the inflation will get him. Things are going to get harder for many people, and he'll be the sacrificial lamb - if not for the economy, then for any other findings on the Covid investigation and further sleaze/party/corruption investigations. He's being kept for a reason: to take a fall for something bigger even than his own incompetence.
Tories are not going to take him to the next election, too risky now, especially as so many have openly said he should resign.
And it's clear there is a very calculated inside job going on here: someone is leaking this, after keeping it in the back pocket for over a year. We'll see who else is in the Gove/Sunak pack eventually.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:44 am
by petej
salanya wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:50 pm
He's gotten away with so much, and depending on the report he might get through this. Though apparently there are still more revelations to come....
But the inflation will get him. Things are going to get harder for many people, and he'll be the sacrificial lamb - if not for the economy, then for any other findings on the Covid investigation and further sleaze/party/corruption investigations. He's being kept for a reason: to take a fall for something bigger even than his own incompetence.
Tories are not going to take him to the next election, too risky now, especially as so many have openly said he should resign.
And it's clear there is a very calculated inside job going on here: someone is leaking this, after keeping it in the back pocket for over a year. We'll see who else is in the Gove/Sunak pack eventually.
It is the hope that kills you.
Economy - Brexit and COVID are massive negatives and if they don't really seem to have much impact then can't see inflation doing it. You and I and others like us make the same mistake we think that others think like us and look at numbers and compare economic figures between countries but this is more about feelings and emotions, hence people believed in Brexit (and Johnson) not rationally weighed up the pros and cons. House prices, which our country is obsessed by, decreasing significantly is the one economic indicator that would doom him.
Corruption and sleaze is priced in with Johnson.
So when Starmer says this country aren't fooled by Johnson he is unfortunately totally and utterly wrong as the past shows. Johnson just needs to wait it out. The Tories were creeping back up in the polls before this latest revelation.
salanya wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:50 pm
He's gotten away with so much, and depending on the report he might get through this. Though apparently there are still more revelations to come....
But the inflation will get him. Things are going to get harder for many people, and he'll be the sacrificial lamb - if not for the economy, then for any other findings on the Covid investigation and further sleaze/party/corruption investigations. He's being kept for a reason: to take a fall for something bigger even than his own incompetence.
Tories are not going to take him to the next election, too risky now, especially as so many have openly said he should resign.
And it's clear there is a very calculated inside job going on here: someone is leaking this, after keeping it in the back pocket for over a year. We'll see who else is in the Gove/Sunak pack eventually.
It is the hope that kills you.
Economy - Brexit and COVID are massive negatives and if they don't really seem to have much impact then can't see inflation doing it. You and I and others like us make the same mistake we think that others think like us and look at numbers and compare economic figures between countries but this is more about feelings and emotions, hence people believed in Brexit (and Johnson) not rationally weighed up the pros and cons. House prices, which our country is obsessed by, decreasing significantly is the one economic indicator that would doom him.
Corruption and sleaze is priced in with Johnson.
So when Starmer says this country aren't fooled by Johnson he is unfortunately totally and utterly wrong as the past shows. Johnson just needs to wait it out. The Tories were creeping back up in the polls before this latest revelation.
Up to a point I agree with you; but the pundits, are right. The bumblecunt was brought in as a Leader, because he could deliver an Election; but now his personal rating is lower than the Party overall; so now, he's a liability; not an asset.
The UK has 175k dead from Covid; & they've the worst death rate of the G7; & trying to trumpet the vaccination, & booster rollout as some kind of triumph; when so many died because of his laziness, & mismanagement in the first place; is a fucking awful strategy.
Listen to these berieved people calling in; recounting the terrible circumstances they lost their loved ones in; & multiply that by 175k times x; & tell me that the MPs, he needs to survive, will go to bat for him !
This is just the dog shit management of Covid; & the Victorian Class system the UK still embraces we're talking about; we haven't even touched on the, long term economic catastrophe that is Brexit; or the ERG Vs Sane people struggle that is pulling the Tory Party apart.
Who in their right mind would want to lead the Tories ?
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:28 am
by Biffer
Various commentators being surprised by JRM comments. It's laughable, anyone who thought that this wasn't the attitude that the Tories gave to Scotland has been living in a bin for years. They think the same of the North
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:52 am
by salanya
Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:28 am
Various commentators being surprised by JRM comments. It's laughable, anyone who thought that this wasn't the attitude that the Tories gave to Scotland has been living in a bin for years. They think the same of the North
I think we all know about JRM's attitudes, but for him to call the Conservative leader in Scotland 'lightweight' openly on television is pretty callous. Didn't even try to wheel back on his words either. Very publicly disregarding conservatives in Scotland.
Charlie Stayte making Brandon Lewis look very silly on Breakfast - not too difficult.
Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:28 am
Various commentators being surprised by JRM comments. It's laughable, anyone who thought that this wasn't the attitude that the Tories gave to Scotland has been living in a bin for years. They think the same of the North
I think we all know about JRM's attitudes, but for him to call the Conservative leader in Scotland 'lightweight' openly on television is pretty callous. Didn't even try to wheel back on his words either. Very publicly disregarding conservatives in Scotland.
Charlie Stayte making Brandon Lewis look very silly on Breakfast - not too difficult.
I actually think Goves comments are much worse - “he’s in Elgin, the National leader is in London”
From the Minister of Levelling Up… and a Scotsman
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:30 am
by Biffer
But I'm honestly not surprised by either statement. That is their attitude to Scotland and has been for a long time.
Basically, either
1. That is their attitude to Scotland and its been that way for a while
2. That is their attitude but its only recently become that way
3. That's not their attitude to Scotland and they're being in some way deceptive for whatever reason.
Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:28 am
Various commentators being surprised by JRM comments. It's laughable, anyone who thought that this wasn't the attitude that the Tories gave to Scotland has been living in a bin for years. They think the same of the North
I think we all know about JRM's attitudes, but for him to call the Conservative leader in Scotland 'lightweight' openly on television is pretty callous. Didn't even try to wheel back on his words either. Very publicly disregarding conservatives in Scotland.
Charlie Stayte making Brandon Lewis look very silly on Breakfast - not too difficult.
I actually think Goves comments are much worse - “he’s in Elgin, the National leader is in London”
From the Minister of Levelling Up… and a Scotsman
Wow, I missed that one.
The level of support for Boris is quite baffling - they all must have a lot of dirt on each other.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:32 am
by sefton
I’m sure the SNP leadership are laughing into their porridge this morning.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:36 am
by Tichtheid
Jacqui Smith made the point this morning that Johnson has been sacked from a job for lying, he is repeatedly caught out on lies, even as Prime Minister but such is the sense of entitlement she thinks he will still be there in there or four months.
When you have senior and, dog help us, influential figures like Mogg being wheeled out to defend him you have have to think Johnson is safe for now.
Further, Ross will be leader of the Tories in Scotland at the next election, any journalist worth their salt will be asking Mogg if Scottish voters should be voting for a lightweight, and likewise if Johnson is still there that same journalist can ask Ross if anyone should vote for a party led by a serial liar.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:40 am
by Slick
sefton wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:32 am
I’m sure the SNP leadership are laughing into their porridge this morning.
Especially when I’m the same week the leader of Scottish Labour said anyone who supports independence isn’t welcome in the Labour party
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:02 am
by Tattie
Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:30 am
But I'm honestly not surprised by either statement. That is their attitude to Scotland and has been for a long time.
Basically, either
1. That is their attitude to Scotland and its been that way for a while
2. That is their attitude but its only recently become that way
3. That's not their attitude to Scotland and they're being in some way deceptive for whatever reason.
I'm think it's answer 1.
Sadly and pathetically, there are plenty up here (I know a few) who will agree with Gove and JRMs comments.
Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:28 am
Various commentators being surprised by JRM comments. It's laughable, anyone who thought that this wasn't the attitude that the Tories gave to Scotland has been living in a bin for years. They think the same of the North
I think we all know about JRM's attitudes, but for him to call the Conservative leader in Scotland 'lightweight' openly on television is pretty callous. Didn't even try to wheel back on his words either. Very publicly disregarding conservatives in Scotland.
Charlie Stayte making Brandon Lewis look very silly on Breakfast - not too difficult.
I actually think Goves comments are much worse - “he’s in Elgin, the National leader is in London”
From the Minister of Levelling Up… and a Scotsman
Great show from the leadership of the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:31 am
by I like neeps
Douglas Ross has to resign now. There's no way he can go into any election with the SNP just repeatedly showing his own party call him a lightweight public figure.
He'd do wonders for his standing and popularity if in his resignation he has a go at that nanny boy c*nt Mogg.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:36 am
by Tichtheid
I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:31 am
Douglas Ross has to resign now. There's no way he can go into any election with the SNP just repeatedly showing his own party call him a lightweight public figure.
That would be par for the course - Ross calls out Johnson for his lies and deceit and Ross has to resign for it.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:37 am
by Slick
I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:31 am
Douglas Ross has to resign now. There's no way he can go into any election with the SNP just repeatedly showing his own party call him a lightweight public figure.
Think that's a bit harsh. He has consistently stood up to a lot of the nonsense coming from Westminster which I think puts him in good standing. Even most loyal Scottish Torys must see the wisdom of distancing themselves from the shitshow.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:43 am
by dpedin
Rats in a sack!
Once you accept they are all self serving cnuts then nothing surprises you anymore. They will destroy each other eventually and I honestly don't give a sh1t, however the collateral damage to our country, our institutions and our people has been and will continue to be immense and unforgivable.
We have had the debate elsewhere on this site about Scotland and its politics and I still honestly believe that the SNP are doing so well up here not because of the people of Scotland have swung towards independence, although that sentiment has grown since the Blonde Bumblecunt and his Brexit Ultras came into power, but more because we don't want to be shackled to a Tory Gov driven by racists, misogynists, nonces and crooks who don't give a shit about anyone north of Watford unless if involves shooting grouse or chasing foxes. The Tory party lurch to the far right and adoption of populist and racist policies has driven them further and further away from the political views of the majority of Scotland and with the collapse of a sensible Labour Party under Corbyn folk were left with little choice. Wee Nic isn't a left wing zealot, many of her policies are pretty main stream and centrist and wouldn't have looked out of place in previous Tory governments let alone Labour ones. They are popular with the majority of voters in Scotland. it is the fear that folk feel when looking over the border and seeing the mayhem and destruction being wrought by this bunch of destructive, disaster venture capitalist backed Gov that makes folk vote SNP. Starmer may change the dynamics but in the interim all JRM has done in his ludicrous comments about the Scottish Tory assistant referee has confirmed the above in many of folks minds.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:53 am
by Slick
Well fine, but lets not pretend we don't have our own racists, misogynists, nonces and crooks in our own government.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:53 am
by fishfoodie
dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:43 am
Rats in a sack!
Once you accept they are all self serving cnuts then nothing surprises you anymore. They will destroy each other eventually and I honestly don't give a sh1t, however the collateral damage to our country, our institutions and our people has been and will continue to be immense and unforgivable.
We have had the debate elsewhere on this site about Scotland and its politics and I still honestly believe that the SNP are doing so well up here not because of the people of Scotland have swung towards independence, although that sentiment has grown since the Blonde Bumblecunt and his Brexit Ultras came into power, but more because we don't want to be shackled to a Tory Gov driven by racists, misogynists, nonces and crooks who don't give a shit about anyone north of Watford unless if involves shooting grouse or chasing foxes. The Tory party lurch to the far right and adoption of populist and racist policies has driven them further and further away from the political views of the majority of Scotland and with the collapse of a sensible Labour Party under Corbyn folk were left with little choice. Wee Nic isn't a left wing zealot, many of her policies are pretty main stream and centrist and wouldn't have looked out of place in previous Tory governments let alone Labour ones. They are popular with the majority of voters in Scotland. it is the fear that folk feel when looking over the border and seeing the mayhem and destruction being wrought by this bunch of destructive, disaster venture capitalist backed Gov that makes folk vote SNP. Starmer may change the dynamics but in the interim all JRM has done in his ludicrous comments about the Scottish Tory assistant referee has confirmed the above in many of folks minds.
Your describing a situation where enough Scots will vote to; "Get Independence Done !", because they're sick of mess south of the border; & I think that's the probably the SNP's pragmatic strategy.
Everyone might not be 100% convinced; but they're frustrated enough to give it a punt.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:04 am
by Biffer
dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:43 am
Rats in a sack!
Once you accept they are all self serving cnuts then nothing surprises you anymore. They will destroy each other eventually and I honestly don't give a sh1t, however the collateral damage to our country, our institutions and our people has been and will continue to be immense and unforgivable.
We have had the debate elsewhere on this site about Scotland and its politics and I still honestly believe that the SNP are doing so well up here not because of the people of Scotland have swung towards independence, although that sentiment has grown since the Blonde Bumblecunt and his Brexit Ultras came into power, but more because we don't want to be shackled to a Tory Gov driven by racists, misogynists, nonces and crooks who don't give a shit about anyone north of Watford unless if involves shooting grouse or chasing foxes. The Tory party lurch to the far right and adoption of populist and racist policies has driven them further and further away from the political views of the majority of Scotland and with the collapse of a sensible Labour Party under Corbyn folk were left with little choice. Wee Nic isn't a left wing zealot, many of her policies are pretty main stream and centrist and wouldn't have looked out of place in previous Tory governments let alone Labour ones. They are popular with the majority of voters in Scotland. it is the fear that folk feel when looking over the border and seeing the mayhem and destruction being wrought by this bunch of destructive, disaster venture capitalist backed Gov that makes folk vote SNP. Starmer may change the dynamics but in the interim all JRM has done in his ludicrous comments about the Scottish Tory assistant referee has confirmed the above in many of folks minds.
There's that side of it, but you've got to realise why the unionist parties don't want to let their Scottish parties become separate - and this applies to some people in those parties in Scotland as well as down south. If they separate, it will allow people of a pro-independence mindset to put their case to the Scottish party. There are right wing and left wing pro independence viewpoints, and these were heartily squashed in the last referendum. E.g. various trades union banned debate or votes at Scottish conferences (if I remember rightly Prospect were really worried as many branch offices had voted in favour). With the SNP moving further left since Sturgeon took over from Salmond, there are some of the more traditional / country seats full of old school right of centre voters who are looking for a home, and I get the feeling that's what Alba was wanting to be (but it ended up full of loonies and ended up looking more like UKIP).
This is probably more a conversation for the Scottish Politics thread I reckon, so I'll leave it there.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:08 am
by fishfoodie
and 24hrs too late; Carrie tests positive; & the Bumblecunt has to isolate.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:15 am
by Insane_Homer
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:08 am
and 24hrs too late; Carrie tests positive; & the Bumblecunt has to isolate.
dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:43 am
Rats in a sack!
Once you accept they are all self serving cnuts then nothing surprises you anymore. They will destroy each other eventually and I honestly don't give a sh1t, however the collateral damage to our country, our institutions and our people has been and will continue to be immense and unforgivable.
We have had the debate elsewhere on this site about Scotland and its politics and I still honestly believe that the SNP are doing so well up here not because of the people of Scotland have swung towards independence, although that sentiment has grown since the Blonde Bumblecunt and his Brexit Ultras came into power, but more because we don't want to be shackled to a Tory Gov driven by racists, misogynists, nonces and crooks who don't give a shit about anyone north of Watford unless if involves shooting grouse or chasing foxes. The Tory party lurch to the far right and adoption of populist and racist policies has driven them further and further away from the political views of the majority of Scotland and with the collapse of a sensible Labour Party under Corbyn folk were left with little choice. Wee Nic isn't a left wing zealot, many of her policies are pretty main stream and centrist and wouldn't have looked out of place in previous Tory governments let alone Labour ones. They are popular with the majority of voters in Scotland. it is the fear that folk feel when looking over the border and seeing the mayhem and destruction being wrought by this bunch of destructive, disaster venture capitalist backed Gov that makes folk vote SNP. Starmer may change the dynamics but in the interim all JRM has done in his ludicrous comments about the Scottish Tory assistant referee has confirmed the above in many of folks minds.
There's that side of it, but you've got to realise why the unionist parties don't want to let their Scottish parties become separate - and this applies to some people in those parties in Scotland as well as down south. If they separate, it will allow people of a pro-independence mindset to put their case to the Scottish party. There are right wing and left wing pro independence viewpoints, and these were heartily squashed in the last referendum. E.g. various trades union banned debate or votes at Scottish conferences (if I remember rightly Prospect were really worried as many branch offices had voted in favour). With the SNP moving further left since Sturgeon took over from Salmond, there are some of the more traditional / country seats full of old school right of centre voters who are looking for a home, and I get the feeling that's what Alba was wanting to be (but it ended up full of loonies and ended up looking more like UKIP).
This is probably more a conversation for the Scottish Politics thread I reckon, so I'll leave it there.
Scottish labour have taken a daft position on independence by going all in on unionist. A more neutral position would have been better for them. Allowing independence voices to have a voice is important in the main parties. Totally shutting it down has has hurt labour far more than it has the Tories.
