NPR

FalseBayFC wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:24 am Jeepers! Woke up to see that the Craps win by 1 run! What an amazing test match.

England let us off the hook by declaring two runs too soon.

Congrats NZ. Another cracking match.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:09 am Congrats NZ. Another cracking match.

+1

Such a shame about the time difference to have had to miss out on that live. Congrats kiwis

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:58 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:14 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:21 pm

Exactly. I doubt anyone is going to be looking for a mankad every ball, but when someone is taking the piss (and 72 times in one game is taking the fucking piss), then you’ll do it.

I’ve always felt the law has been pretty clear - if you are attempting to steal a run the bowler has a remedy, but a bowler cannot deceive a batsman by simulating bowling to effect a run out. The challenge has been a complete lack of common sense being applied by umpires which has amplified the cases where the batsman has been deceived out of their ground.

At club level, the onus is on batsman to stay in their ground, for bowlers to not take the piss and for umpires to make sure both are doing the above. I back up from the return crease, aiming to leave my ground at the point of release which is really what ought to be being coached

FWIW, I absolutely believe that the mankad should be done as part of the bowling action at the latest. Stopping and then whipping the bails off is not right. Neither is getting out of your crease more than 70 times in a 70 odd run innings.

Yes, completely agree on this

WOW! What a result and turn around.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:07 am Such a shame about the time difference to have had to miss out on that live. Congrats kiwis

It was quite something. Possibly as a result of only getting 3 1/2 hours sleep I'm feeling slightly less isn't-cricket-wonderful and a bit more what-the-actual-fuck about some of the decision making...

I kind of get Stokes's shot - he was batting on one leg, bit of a concern for the future. But Root's shot was more questionable with Foakes at the other end. Yes the runs had dried up but patience was called for - we only needed another 15-20 runs and the kiwis would lose hope. Whereas it was always going to be very difficult for Foakes to score the runs with Leach and Anderson. Perhaps a bit harsh when the bloke's scored 250+ runs in the test, but I expected NZ to win the moment he went.

OK with Foakes's shot. It was just the way he'd had to play to get to the other end with all the bouncers. And obviously fine with Leach and Anderson (though I do wish Anderson could duck!).

(Incidentally, under law 21.10 a ball over head height is a no ball, not a wide, which would mean you can swing at it with impunity. For some reason it's never called as a no ball, just as a wide, but Foakes's wicket ball must have been very close: YouTube highlight didn't have a side on view but I think that must be in front of him and still rising.

Complete bottle job from the square leg umpire on the penultimate ball, too, which was a foot at least over Anderson's head - we woz robbed of a tie...)

Vaguely related, there's a 'forwarded many times' voice note going around. After day 4 the England coaches went to a bar in Wellington, and Collingwood chatted up two English girls backpacking round NZ (their friend on the voice note sounds early 20s, private school and if I had to guess, attractive). Ends up insisting on paying for them to have a night in a hotel, needless to say he intended to join them. Ends up shagging one of them then lies in between the two of them having, and I quote 'essentially a two hour wank' before giving them tickets to day 5. Doesn't sound like they took up the offer of a cracking day's cricket.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:07 am Such a shame about the time difference to have had to miss out on that live. Congrats kiwis

It is days like this that I love working from home, as it means I could watch the entire day's play.

What a thing to wake up to.

My phone had about 40 updates and messages on it. Thought it was done when Stokes and Root were going. Tbf I thought it was done when we were 7 down for 100 odd in the first innings.

But Test cricket is a crazy ride huh.

Still - NZ cricket needs a big turnaround and some consistency again. Williamson can't keep posting low scores and then pop up with a ton every now and then. He needs to be Root-like and deliver consistent 50's and convert to hundreds more often than not.

And Bracewell? I'm not sure if he is the guy for Tests?

It's a little one-sided, but unlike most Aussies, Jared doesn't automatically go for needling the Poms so this article deserves a read:

https://wickets.substack.com/p/englands ... he-legside

He's not wrong that we've had some streaks of luck. It doesn't really diminish what England have been doing - you make your own luck a bit, and part of the hilarity of Bazball is that there are some really not very good Test batsmen who are being elevated because of this approach. You need a bit of luck when you're relying on flakes and ODI specialists to be a big part of your team.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:33 am It's a little one-sided, but unlike most Aussies, Jared doesn't automatically go for needling the Poms so this article deserves a read:

https://wickets.substack.com/p/englands ... he-legside

He's not wrong that we've had some streaks of luck. It doesn't really diminish what England have been doing - you make your own luck a bit, and part of the hilarity of Bazball is that there are some really not very good Test batsmen who are being elevated because of this approach. You need a bit of luck when you're relying on flakes and ODI specialists to be a big part of your team.

I enjoyed that. Didn't think it was anti-English at all, bar a teensy sense of muffled glee that England have proved not to be The Best Thing Ever, which we all knew anyway.

He's quite right about much of the luck, especially the injuries to the Kiwi bowlers and Pakistan missing their strike bowlers. But that is part of the game. The only thing he does not make enough of is that England too had very similar injury misfortunes with their fast bowlers. He mentions it but does not give it equal weighting.

Who are those Test batsmen you refer to? I'd've given you Bairstow, except that he kept doing it last year. But I'm not sure who else has done that amazingly anyway, bar Brook (who looks the real deal) and Root (who is, and has struggled a little with BazBall anyway).

Woddy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:57 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:33 am It's a little one-sided, but unlike most Aussies, Jared doesn't automatically go for needling the Poms so this article deserves a read:

https://wickets.substack.com/p/englands ... he-legside

He's not wrong that we've had some streaks of luck. It doesn't really diminish what England have been doing - you make your own luck a bit, and part of the hilarity of Bazball is that there are some really not very good Test batsmen who are being elevated because of this approach. You need a bit of luck when you're relying on flakes and ODI specialists to be a big part of your team.

I enjoyed that. Didn't think it was anti-English at all, bar a teensy sense of muffled glee that England have proved not to be The Best Thing Ever, which we all knew anyway.

He's quite right about much of the luck, especially the injuries to the Kiwi bowlers and Pakistan missing their strike bowlers. But that is part of the game. The only thing he does not make enough of is that England too had very similar injury misfortunes with their fast bowlers. He mentions it but does not give it equal weighting.

Who are those Test batsmen you refer to? I'd've given you Bairstow, except that he kept doing it last year. But I'm not sure who else has done that amazingly anyway, bar Brook (who looks the real deal) and Root (who is, and has struggled a little with BazBall anyway).

We've just had a couple of series of opening with Crawley and Duckett! Under Bazball, we've been winning games with Alex Lees, Sam Billings, Liam Livingstone, Will Jacks, Rehan Ahmed as a pinch hitter.. most of them at least did their job of setting the tone and being aggressive, even if they are miles away from having the game to be a good traditional Test bat. It's a system that lets them have a positive impact even if the weight of runs isn't there.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 3:00 pm

Woddy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:57 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:33 am It's a little one-sided, but unlike most Aussies, Jared doesn't automatically go for needling the Poms so this article deserves a read:

https://wickets.substack.com/p/englands ... he-legside

He's not wrong that we've had some streaks of luck. It doesn't really diminish what England have been doing - you make your own luck a bit, and part of the hilarity of Bazball is that there are some really not very good Test batsmen who are being elevated because of this approach. You need a bit of luck when you're relying on flakes and ODI specialists to be a big part of your team.

I enjoyed that. Didn't think it was anti-English at all, bar a teensy sense of muffled glee that England have proved not to be The Best Thing Ever, which we all knew anyway.

He's quite right about much of the luck, especially the injuries to the Kiwi bowlers and Pakistan missing their strike bowlers. But that is part of the game. The only thing he does not make enough of is that England too had very similar injury misfortunes with their fast bowlers. He mentions it but does not give it equal weighting.

Who are those Test batsmen you refer to? I'd've given you Bairstow, except that he kept doing it last year. But I'm not sure who else has done that amazingly anyway, bar Brook (who looks the real deal) and Root (who is, and has struggled a little with BazBall anyway).

We've just had a couple of series of opening with Crawley and Duckett! Under Bazball, we've been winning games with Alex Lees, Sam Billings, Liam Livingstone, Will Jacks, Rehan Ahmed as a pinch hitter.. most of them at least did their job of setting the tone and being aggressive, even if they are miles away from having the game to be a good traditional Test bat. It's a system that lets them have a positive impact even if the weight of runs isn't there.

Ah, think I see what you mean - that they are not traditional test bats - but that would a bit unfair for quite a few. Duckett's a "proper" bat who's been given a little release to play more shots than he did before, for example. Some, like Bairstow, seem to average much better under the new system; others just a little bit more through being less fearful. Mostly, and as you say, they appear simply to have found a way to make more use of batsmen who average 25-30 (and would have done anyway) and help them enjoy their games. I'm not sure it elevates them. In fact, a few seem to be faring worse in terms of averages - Root, Pope, Stokes, Foakes - as they are encouraged to sacrifice themselves for the greater good. The same excuse has been used for Crawley, but he looks shot to me.

You don't come sashaying into the Spiritual Home of Bazball singing and chanting about Bazball and come away unscathed.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 3:00 pm

Woddy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:57 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:33 am It's a little one-sided, but unlike most Aussies, Jared doesn't automatically go for needling the Poms so this article deserves a read:

https://wickets.substack.com/p/englands ... he-legside

He's not wrong that we've had some streaks of luck. It doesn't really diminish what England have been doing - you make your own luck a bit, and part of the hilarity of Bazball is that there are some really not very good Test batsmen who are being elevated because of this approach. You need a bit of luck when you're relying on flakes and ODI specialists to be a big part of your team.

I enjoyed that. Didn't think it was anti-English at all, bar a teensy sense of muffled glee that England have proved not to be The Best Thing Ever, which we all knew anyway.

He's quite right about much of the luck, especially the injuries to the Kiwi bowlers and Pakistan missing their strike bowlers. But that is part of the game. The only thing he does not make enough of is that England too had very similar injury misfortunes with their fast bowlers. He mentions it but does not give it equal weighting.

Who are those Test batsmen you refer to? I'd've given you Bairstow, except that he kept doing it last year. But I'm not sure who else has done that amazingly anyway, bar Brook (who looks the real deal) and Root (who is, and has struggled a little with BazBall anyway).

We've just had a couple of series of opening with Crawley and Duckett! Under Bazball, we've been winning games with Alex Lees, Sam Billings, Liam Livingstone, Will Jacks, Rehan Ahmed as a pinch hitter.. most of them at least did their job of setting the tone and being aggressive, even if they are miles away from having the game to be a good traditional Test bat. It's a system that lets them have a positive impact even if the weight of runs isn't there.

Some of that is circumstances too though as well as intent. Billings was a replacement late on who knows the international environment then kept on, a few of those because they were in theory batsmen who can bowl spin or spinners who can bat a little too.

England were also missing serious fire power in their bowling department that will come in handy if fully fit. Curran, Archer and Stone are all international class bowlers. For Stone it is a question of if his body can handle it.

India batting first in the 3rd test - 85/7 and it's not even lunch yet

Proteas 57/5 as the wheels come off again.

Live text feed of the Yorkshire racism case.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/ ... aincontent

Fascinating so far. The KC is currently alleging that Adil Rashid is being blackmailed into giving evidence against Vaughan.

Random1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:20 pm Live text feed of the Yorkshire racism case.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/ ... aincontent

Fascinating so far. The KC is currently alleging that Adil Rashid is being blackmailed into giving evidence against Vaughan.

Absolutely mad to agree this set up. It has allowed most of the people to have a reason to pull out and Vaughan to rock up with a KC who made Rashid look like a very unreliable witness. They're going to find it very hard to convict Vaughan of anything unless something drastic changes in the remainder of the enquiry, cue 'whitewash' and a loss of sponsors.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 6:56 pm

Random1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:20 pm Live text feed of the Yorkshire racism case.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/ ... aincontent

Fascinating so far. The KC is currently alleging that Adil Rashid is being blackmailed into giving evidence against Vaughan.

Absolutely mad to agree this set up. It has allowed most of the people to have a reason to pull out and Vaughan to rock up with a KC who made Rashid look like a very unreliable witness. They're going to find it very hard to convict Vaughan of anything unless something drastic changes in the remainder of the enquiry, cue 'whitewash' and a loss of sponsors.

It’s also looking like it never happened. Video footage of them smiling and laughing with the team, immediately after it is alleged the incident happened, doesn’t look like a racist episode just occurred.

Rashid confiding in another staff member that he didn’t remember Vaughan saying anything.

Random1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 7:26 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 6:56 pm

Random1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:20 pm Live text feed of the Yorkshire racism case.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/ ... aincontent

Fascinating so far. The KC is currently alleging that Adil Rashid is being blackmailed into giving evidence against Vaughan.

Absolutely mad to agree this set up. It has allowed most of the people to have a reason to pull out and Vaughan to rock up with a KC who made Rashid look like a very unreliable witness. They're going to find it very hard to convict Vaughan of anything unless something drastic changes in the remainder of the enquiry, cue 'whitewash' and a loss of sponsors.

It’s also looking like it never happened. Video footage of them smiling and laughing with the team, immediately after it is alleged the incident happened, doesn’t look like a racist episode just occurred.

Rashid confiding in another staff member that he didn’t remember Vaughan saying anything.

Quite possibly. This tribunal was convened to convict people, have no doubt about that, as the ECB need to be seen to take action prior to the upcoming report which will be pretty damning. If they can't they're in all sorts of mess, and there has been something of a loss of patience with their handling of it from all sides and none.

I don't think people laughing afterwards is any proof of anything if you spend the slightest amount of time considering the nature of outsiders trying to fit in

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:52 pm I don't think people laughing afterwards is any proof of anything if you spend the slightest amount of time considering the nature of outsiders trying to fit in

On its own, yes, I’d agree with you (although a third of the players on the field at that time were Asian, so not like someone was isolated and without support). The point I made was that, combined with the other statements, it builds a different picture to one where vaughan stepped back from commentary due to being guilty of racism.

We’ll see how it plays out.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:52 pm I don't think people laughing afterwards is any proof of anything if you spend the slightest amount of time considering the nature of outsiders trying to fit in

Also true. If you follow the hearing yesterday though, it is very hard to see how they're going to make anything stick to Vaughan on this. There's nothing on camera, one of the players he's alleged to have said it to said it didn't happen, Rudolf said it didn't happen, Rafiq's testimony has had some inconsistencies and let's not beat around the bush too much, Rashid at the very best was deeply economical with the truth yesterday, and I'm unconvinced they can place too much weight on his account as a result.

Vaughan is not under investigation for being a knob, for which he would struggle to mount a coherent defence.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:24 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:52 pm I don't think people laughing afterwards is any proof of anything if you spend the slightest amount of time considering the nature of outsiders trying to fit in

Also true. If you follow the hearing yesterday though, it is very hard to see how they're going to make anything stick to Vaughan on this. There's nothing on camera, one of the players he's alleged to have said it to said it didn't happen, Rudolf said it didn't happen, Rafiq's testimony has had some inconsistencies and let's not beat around the bush too much, Rashid at the very best was deeply economical with the truth yesterday, and I'm unconvinced they can place too much weight on his account as a result.

Vaughan is not under investigation for being a knob, for which he would struggle to mount a coherent defence.

Oh I've not been following it too closely. I know Vaughan arrived with a bevy of legal types and I don't expect much to stick to him at the best of times. The nature of the case makes it difficult to see where proper legal judgment can be made.

There is the over 50s cricket cup happening in Cape Town
I know Zimbabwe is playing the West Indies currently. At my sons school, Milnerton. Putting those spot lights up on the main field has attracted a lot of international fixtures. Warm up sessions etc. So the kids get to meet the players. Don't ask me who most of the players are. Before my time of following cricket. South Africa Play on Friday at the Milnerton ground. I don't know if there is a link to follow the old timers

Sards wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:16 pm There is the over 50s cricket cup happening in Cape Town
I know Zimbabwe is playing the West Indies currently. At my sons school, Milnerton. Putting those spot lights up on the main field has attracted a lot of international fixtures. Warm up sessions etc. So the kids get to meet the players. Don't ask me who most of the players are. Before my time of following cricket. South Africa Play on Friday at the Milnerton ground. I don't know if there is a link to follow the old timers

They still using metal bails at Milnerton because the South Easter keeps blowing the wooden ones off the stumps?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clubcr ... s/%3famp=1


Found this

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:19 pm

Sards wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:16 pm There is the over 50s cricket cup happening in Cape Town
I know Zimbabwe is playing the West Indies currently. At my sons school, Milnerton. Putting those spot lights up on the main field has attracted a lot of international fixtures. Warm up sessions etc. So the kids get to meet the players. Don't ask me who most of the players are. Before my time of following cricket. South Africa Play on Friday at the Milnerton ground. I don't know if there is a link to follow the old timers

They still using metal bails at Milnerton because the South Easter keeps blowing the wooden ones off the stumps?

That was before my son's time. I will ask him when he gets home from watching today's match

Sards wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:21 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:19 pm

Sards wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:16 pm There is the over 50s cricket cup happening in Cape Town
I know Zimbabwe is playing the West Indies currently. At my sons school, Milnerton. Putting those spot lights up on the main field has attracted a lot of international fixtures. Warm up sessions etc. So the kids get to meet the players. Don't ask me who most of the players are. Before my time of following cricket. South Africa Play on Friday at the Milnerton ground. I don't know if there is a link to follow the old timers

They still using metal bails at Milnerton because the South Easter keeps blowing the wooden ones off the stumps?

That was before my son's time. I will ask him when he gets home from watching today's match

Was great being a fast bowler and hearing the metal bails go "Piiiiiing!!" off the top of off-stump.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:23 pm

Sards wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:21 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:19 pm

They still using metal bails at Milnerton because the South Easter keeps blowing the wooden ones off the stumps?

That was before my son's time. I will ask him when he gets home from watching today's match

Was great being a fast bowler and hearing the metal bails go "Piiiiiing!!" off the top of off-stump.

Are you an old boy

Zimbabwe at Milnerton high


No wonder I don't recognize most of them. Check the average. Only 3 games played. They probably just looked for whoever was fit and still playing

Sards wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:24 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:23 pm

Sards wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:21 pm

That was before my son's time. I will ask him when he gets home from watching today's match

Was great being a fast bowler and hearing the metal bails go "Piiiiiing!!" off the top of off-stump.

Are you an old boy

Come now. Don't be coy

Actually Sandy a lot of things make sense now. Just a little Google search in the right direction and voila.....don't worry I will keep the secret. I doubt anyone else will follow my direction.

The England side is made up of club cricketers still fit enough to play a half decent standard of league cricket and with enough cash to get themselves to SA.
Over 50s/60s and increasingly 70s cricket is one of the big growth markets in English club cricket, its run as a county championship and they go all around the country.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:02 pm The England side is made up of club cricketers still fit enough to play a half decent standard of league cricket and with enough cash to get themselves to SA.
Over 50s/60s and increasingly 70s cricket is one of the big growth markets in English club cricket, its run as a county championship and they go all around the country.

That's amazing. It's a great idea. I guessed as much when I was going through the sides. Hardly recognize any of the players. Cricket has always been about who has enough money to tour and still fairly competent. My son's previous club played a few English, Indian etc. Touring boys sides. They obviously weren't the best available but kids who could afford it.

Sards wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:33 pm
Are you an old boy

I'm 50 this year. You know this already.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:16 pm

Sards wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:33 pm
Are you an old boy

I'm 50 this year. You know this already.

Aaaah. There goes my theory. You know that De Allende played cricket for Milnerton at a competent level and only later moved to rugby