NPR

PCPhil wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:01 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:52 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:44 pm There should be a by election in Bury South and anytime there's someone crossing the floor. Say what you want about the good people of Bury South they're part of the red wall a geographic area that famously turned away from Labour. They don't want a Labour MP!

Like when Kate Hoey, who's constituency voted remain (78%), went full UKIP?

Yeah, just like that.

No, not like that. She should've been deselected but MPs do all they can to make it almost impossible to deselect them.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:31 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:10 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:25 pm
Hmm this seems a stretch, he was clearly talking about joining the EU's vaccine programme

He's repeatedly said we wouldn't have been allowed to run our own vaccine programme and would have been forced to do our procurement through the EU. Which is patently untrue given not all EU members ordered their vaccines through the EU programme.

As I heard it the jibe he was making was that Labour wanted to join the EU vaccine programme rather than run our own, which is true. If I misheard and he was making a more technical point about the specifics of the EMA and procurement then fair enough I missed it.

He and his cabinet have said both.

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:32 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:29 pm

Liars going to lie!

Yep, UK is 13th on the list

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:06 pm

PCPhil wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:01 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:52 pm

Like when Kate Hoey, who's constituency voted remain (78%), went full UKIP?

Yeah, just like that.

No, not like that. She should've been deselected but MPs do all they can to make it almost impossible to deselect them.

I don't mind it as a theory because if we move towards conceding people vote party not candidate it makes it easier to bring about PR

This is rather incredible

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/14837909 ... n1bMg&s=19

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:34 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:06 pm

PCPhil wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:01 pm
Yeah, just like that.

No, not like that. She should've been deselected but MPs do all they can to make it almost impossible to deselect them.

I don't mind it as a theory because if we move towards conceding people vote party not candidate it makes it easier to bring about PR

The other reason he should resign his seat is that he co-sponsored a bill on this very subject (MPs changing affiliation). So unless he’s a complete hypocrite he should put his principles into action and resign.

Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:35 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:34 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:06 pm

No, not like that. She should've been deselected but MPs do all they can to make it almost impossible to deselect them.

I don't mind it as a theory because if we move towards conceding people vote party not candidate it makes it easier to bring about PR

The other reason he should resign his seat is that he co-sponsored a bill on this very subject (MPs changing affiliation). So unless he’s a complete hypocrite he should put his principles into action and resign.

After Boris does the same and Hell freezes over.

Lol

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:56 pm A sorry state of affairs when we have to rely on an unelected upper chamber to keep an increasingly authoritarian government in check

That's what it's for and that's why it's unelected.

If it was elected, it would simply rubber stamp Government decrees.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:53 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:56 pm A sorry state of affairs when we have to rely on an unelected upper chamber to keep an increasingly authoritarian government in check

That's what it's for and that's why it's unelected.

If it was elected, it would simply rubber stamp Government decrees.

Yep. It would be better if the appointees were not purely political appointments as well though. Appointed representatives from across society to better represent it. Reps from charities, unions, professional associations, universities, sports, community organisations, business organisation, etc. A truly representative appointed house.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:53 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:56 pm A sorry state of affairs when we have to rely on an unelected upper chamber to keep an increasingly authoritarian government in check

That's what it's for and that's why it's unelected.

If it was elected, it would simply rubber stamp Government decrees.

LOL

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:29 am

Rinkals wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:53 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:56 pm A sorry state of affairs when we have to rely on an unelected upper chamber to keep an increasingly authoritarian government in check

That's what it's for and that's why it's unelected.

If it was elected, it would simply rubber stamp Government decrees.

Yep. It would be better if the appointees were not purely political appointments as well though. Appointed representatives from across society to better represent it. Reps from charities, unions, professional associations, universities, sports, community organisations, business organisation, etc. A truly representative appointed house.

Chuck in a few people from STEM fields to counteract the fact that almost all MPs seem to be innumerate PPE graduates.

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:19 pm This is rather incredible

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/14837909 ... n1bMg&s=19

Unsurprisingly the story about white students being banned from a school trip to a slavery museum turned out to be untrue. The school has said its last trip to the museum was in 2012 and it was fully inclusive.

Speaking of Caroline Lucas, she said yesterday that you can't be sure if the Prime Minister is lifting restrictions because "The Science" tells them that it's safe to do so, or if he's trying to appease the loons on his back bench, the ones who would have let it rip, in order to save his own hide.

It's a shite state of affairs when this is what we have to think of with the Prime Minister

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:15 am

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:19 pm This is rather incredible

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/14837909 ... n1bMg&s=19

Unsurprisingly the story about white students being banned from a school trip to a slavery museum turned out to be untrue. The school has said its last trip to the museum was in 2012 and it was fully inclusive.

But he spoke to many of the pupils about it!!!

Will the Met ignore accusations of Blackmail ?

Bye, Bye, Bumblecunt !

Sue Gray has a letter/email from a senior official to the PM; warning him about the Party !

That should be that, in a world of decent, honorable, human beings.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:50 am Bye, Bye, Bumblecunt !

Sue Gray has a letter/email from a senior official to the PM; warning him about the Party !

That should be that, in a world of decent, honorable, human beings.

But, but, but...VACCCINE!

The depths the current lot of ministers and Johnson will go to.

petej wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:00 am The depths the current lot of ministers and Johnson will go to.

Well Wragg was pretty clear; he accused; Whips, Officials, SPADs, & Ministers, of intimidation, & Blackmail; those are criminal offences; &it doesn't get any more serious than that.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:19 am Speaking of Caroline Lucas, she said yesterday that you can't be sure if the Prime Minister is lifting restrictions because "The Science" tells them that it's safe to do so, or if he's trying to appease the loons on his back bench, the ones who would have let it rip, in order to save his own hide.

It's a shite state of affairs when this is what we have to think of with the Prime Minister

Private Eye called it earlier this week and linked it to Van-Tam leaving

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:09 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:19 am Speaking of Caroline Lucas, she said yesterday that you can't be sure if the Prime Minister is lifting restrictions because "The Science" tells them that it's safe to do so, or if he's trying to appease the loons on his back bench, the ones who would have let it rip, in order to save his own hide.

It's a shite state of affairs when this is what we have to think of with the Prime Minister

Private Eye called it earlier this week and linked it to Van-Tam leaving

BMA came out pretty strongly against this, pointing out how high hospitalisations are compared to when restrictions came in...

Just like their idiotic circling of the wagons over Patterson, the attempts to deflect, cover up and move on are probably worse than taking the punishment.

I fully expect someone to leak pictures of Johnson swilling champagne at multiple piss ups in the near future.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:50 am Bye, Bye, Bumblecunt !

Sue Gray has a letter/email from a senior official to the PM; warning him about the Party !

That should be that, in a world of decent, honorable, human beings

Aye, bloody shame it's modern day politics instead.

Wouldn't be surprised if they brazen this one out as well. Labour haven't quite been taking advantage as you'd expect.

lemonhead wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:02 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:50 am Bye, Bye, Bumblecunt !

Sue Gray has a letter/email from a senior official to the PM; warning him about the Party !

That should be that, in a world of decent, honorable, human beings

Aye, bloody shame it's modern day politics instead.

Wouldn't be surprised if they brazen this one out as well. Labour haven't quite been taking advantage as you'd expect.

I've heard this a bit recently. What more would you suggest they do?
Starmer is hammering him on it at PMQs, Reeve did a decent press round this morning.

The tories have a ?77? seat majority and their infighting is getting bloody.

Can't really see what labour can do. The fact that the speaker is basically supine is a worry, but not in their control

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:50 am Bye, Bye, Bumblecunt !

Sue Gray has a letter/email from a senior official to the PM; warning him about the Party !

That should be that, in a world of decent, honorable, human beings.

Not quite a smoking gun. The email was to Bojo's PPS, Martin Reynolds, rather than to Bojo himself. However, it corroborates Cummings account of events, and Reynolds will have to either admit that he discussed the email with Bojo, or explain why he failed to do so.

Cummings has already said he raised this personally with Bojo, and that it would be unthinkable for Reynolds not to have got Johnson's permission to go ahead once these concerns were raised.

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:05 pm

lemonhead wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:02 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:50 am Bye, Bye, Bumblecunt !

Sue Gray has a letter/email from a senior official to the PM; warning him about the Party !

That should be that, in a world of decent, honorable, human beings

Aye, bloody shame it's modern day politics instead.

Wouldn't be surprised if they brazen this one out as well. Labour haven't quite been taking advantage as you'd expect.

I've heard this a bit recently. What more would you suggest they do?
Starmer is hammering him on it at PMQs, Reeve did a decent press round this morning.

The tories have a ?77? seat majority and their infighting is getting bloody.

Can't really see what labour can do. The fact that the speaker is basically supine is a worry, but not in their control

There's also an open question for Labour; as to whether or not it's best to keep the current Cabinet, as long as possible; to let the stench of corruption, & incompetence sink in, to as many as possible; & get as close as possible to the next set of Elections.

The longer the better, this goes on; the better, I'd say ?

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:05 pm

lemonhead wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:02 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:50 am Bye, Bye, Bumblecunt !

Sue Gray has a letter/email from a senior official to the PM; warning him about the Party !

That should be that, in a world of decent, honorable, human beings

Aye, bloody shame it's modern day politics instead.

Wouldn't be surprised if they brazen this one out as well. Labour haven't quite been taking advantage as you'd expect.

I've heard this a bit recently. What more would you suggest they do?
Starmer is hammering him on it at PMQs, Reeve did a decent press round this morning.

The tories have a ?77? seat majority and their infighting is getting bloody.

Can't really see what labour can do. The fact that the speaker is basically supine is a worry, but not in their control

Not a direct criticism, airtime seems to be inherently popcorn territory and most Tory mishaps look priced in. 'Well yeah, of course we already know they'd be doing that'.

Struggling to see how much of a smoking gun it needs to be in order to swing an election. Probably unrelated like the coming energy hike in April.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:11 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:05 pm

lemonhead wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:02 pm

Aye, bloody shame it's modern day politics instead.

Wouldn't be surprised if they brazen this one out as well. Labour haven't quite been taking advantage as you'd expect.

I've heard this a bit recently. What more would you suggest they do?
Starmer is hammering him on it at PMQs, Reeve did a decent press round this morning.

The tories have a ?77? seat majority and their infighting is getting bloody.

Can't really see what labour can do. The fact that the speaker is basically supine is a worry, but not in their control

There's also an open question for Labour; as to whether or not it's best to keep the current Cabinet, as long as possible; to let the stench of corruption, & incompetence sink in, to as many as possible; & get as close as possible to the next set of Elections.

The longer the better, this goes on; the better, I'd say ?

Given the sorts of laws that this mob are trying to pass and the misery they're heaping on a lot of people, I vote "get them out now" rather than waiting for an election advantage. Might be a mistake.

Iirc Labour were 11 percent behind the Tories at the last election.
Boris won the Red Wall and was massively popular in those regions. If we say he was worth 3% and Corbyn was a negative 5% then taking those figures out of the equation next time it could be very interesting.

That coupled with the forth coming raises in NI and Energy prices with comparatively high inflation and low wage increases means a tough time ahead.

Cummings surely has a lot more dirt to dish in the slow drip drip drip.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:22 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:11 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:05 pm

I've heard this a bit recently. What more would you suggest they do?
Starmer is hammering him on it at PMQs, Reeve did a decent press round this morning.

The tories have a ?77? seat majority and their infighting is getting bloody.

Can't really see what labour can do. The fact that the speaker is basically supine is a worry, but not in their control

There's also an open question for Labour; as to whether or not it's best to keep the current Cabinet, as long as possible; to let the stench of corruption, & incompetence sink in, to as many as possible; & get as close as possible to the next set of Elections.

The longer the better, this goes on; the better, I'd say ?

Given the sorts of laws that this mob are trying to pass and the misery they're heaping on a lot of people, I vote "get them out now" rather than waiting for an election advantage. Might be a mistake.

Well unfortunately for the UK; cutting the current head off the Tory snake; isn't going to change the personality of the Snake, when it gets it's new head. Your stuck with 2 more years of this scum

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:31 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:22 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:11 pm

There's also an open question for Labour; as to whether or not it's best to keep the current Cabinet, as long as possible; to let the stench of corruption, & incompetence sink in, to as many as possible; & get as close as possible to the next set of Elections.

The longer the better, this goes on; the better, I'd say ?

Given the sorts of laws that this mob are trying to pass and the misery they're heaping on a lot of people, I vote "get them out now" rather than waiting for an election advantage. Might be a mistake.

Well unfortunately for the UK; cutting the current head off the Tory snake; isn't going to change the personality of the Snake, when it gets it's new head. Your stuck with 2 more years of this scum

I don't know how true that is. Boris and his cabinet are a pack of fucking lunatic extremists. I refuse to believe the entire party is like that. Of course I do have to bear in mind the 2019 intake seem pretty one-note and that Boris and chums have actively worked to kick out the moderates, but the party surely hasn't changed _that_ much...

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:22 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:11 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:05 pm

I've heard this a bit recently. What more would you suggest they do?
Starmer is hammering him on it at PMQs, Reeve did a decent press round this morning.

The tories have a ?77? seat majority and their infighting is getting bloody.

Can't really see what labour can do. The fact that the speaker is basically supine is a worry, but not in their control

There's also an open question for Labour; as to whether or not it's best to keep the current Cabinet, as long as possible; to let the stench of corruption, & incompetence sink in, to as many as possible; & get as close as possible to the next set of Elections.

The longer the better, this goes on; the better, I'd say ?

Given the sorts of laws that this mob are trying to pass and the misery they're heaping on a lot of people, I vote "get them out now" rather than waiting for an election advantage. Might be a mistake.

That's kinda my point. We can't vote them out for 23 months..... They're going to pass this legislation anyway (shoutout to the HoL the other night).
Keep piling the pressure on, but all of BJ's potential successors are getting tainted with this shit and none of them really have a personality to swing this around.

I reckon he'll be there to the local elections at least.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:39 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:31 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:22 pm

Given the sorts of laws that this mob are trying to pass and the misery they're heaping on a lot of people, I vote "get them out now" rather than waiting for an election advantage. Might be a mistake.

Well unfortunately for the UK; cutting the current head off the Tory snake; isn't going to change the personality of the Snake, when it gets it's new head. Your stuck with 2 more years of this scum

I don't know how true that is. Boris and his cabinet are a pack of fucking lunatic extremists. I refuse to believe the entire party is like that. Of course I do have to bear in mind the 2019 intake seem pretty one-note and that Boris and chums have actively worked to kick out the moderates, but the party surely hasn't changed _that_ much...

I wish I could agree with you. There's still a few, but none of them seem to be near or want power

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:31 pm Well unfortunately for the UK; cutting the current head off the Tory snake; isn't going to change the personality of the Snake, when it gets it's new head. Your stuck with 2 more years of this scum

Not so much a snake as the Hydra

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:41 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:39 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:31 pm

Well unfortunately for the UK; cutting the current head off the Tory snake; isn't going to change the personality of the Snake, when it gets it's new head. Your stuck with 2 more years of this scum

I don't know how true that is. Boris and his cabinet are a pack of fucking lunatic extremists. I refuse to believe the entire party is like that. Of course I do have to bear in mind the 2019 intake seem pretty one-note and that Boris and chums have actively worked to kick out the moderates, but the party surely hasn't changed _that_ much...

I wish I could agree with you. There's still a few, but none of them seem to be near or want power

Oh it's definitely a hypothetical and you know your politicians better than I do. But I do think that they've largely been keeping their heads down because a) the wind has been blowing in Boris' direction for some time and it's the current direction of the party whether they like or not, and b) because Boris and chums are extraordinarily vicious and vindictive.

Or we could just end up with something like the current Republican party, completely in thrall to a disastrous failure.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:53 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:56 pm A sorry state of affairs when we have to rely on an unelected upper chamber to keep an increasingly authoritarian government in check

That's what it's for and that's why it's unelected.

If it was elected, it would simply rubber stamp Government decrees.

It could be elected on a different electoral cycle, the US quite often has the Senate and HoR under different parties. And also my model upper chamber would have a mixture of elected members and some that are there because of the knowledge they can bring - medics, engineers, whatever else comes to mind.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:37 am Will the Met ignore accusations of Blackmail ?

Unless there’s something I don’t know - quite possible - it’s not really blackmail is it? They’re not threatening to reveal any embarrassing secrets about their opponents are they?

GogLais wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:53 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:37 am Will the Met ignore accusations of Blackmail ?

Unless there’s something I don’t know - quite possible - it’s not really blackmail is it? They’re not threatening to reveal any embarrassing secrets about their opponents are they?

Threatening to withhold public funds for their constituencies must break some laws surely

Rinkals wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:53 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:56 pm A sorry state of affairs when we have to rely on an unelected upper chamber to keep an increasingly authoritarian government in check

That's what it's for and that's why it's unelected.

If it was elected, it would simply rubber stamp Government decrees.

Well it does make you wonder why we bother with the shambolic faux shitshow of a democracy we persist with if so many unaccountable political appointees are actually more capable and moderate!