NPR

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:06 am

duke wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:50 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:34 am
Backing their bowlers, though it won't look good in hindsight if Aus rack up 500+ and we used 4 new ball overs for no reward . Weather is on the turn this weekend so runs in the bank might well have been the better option.

Nah, in Baz/Stokes we trust. I like that we tried something different and it means that we get two goes at the openers.

One of the comments from the journos stood out to me - you do what the opposition least want you to do. This struck me as just that, the Ozzies had been in the field all day and there was a decent chance of getting one of the openers cheaply

Not convinced the Aussies were devastated by the decision. If I was in their shoes what I'd have been dreading is Root being 130ish not out overnight with Robinson hanging around, ready to have a free hit this morning then a run at them before lunch.

Second guessing Bazball has been a loser's pastime so far, but it shouldn't morph into a meme of itself nor is it an excuse for poor decision making.

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:33 am "Bazball' strikes me as a wanky name for describing the way Australia has played for most of the last 20 years.

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:33 am "Bazball' strikes me as a wanky name for describing the way Australia has played for most of the last 20 years.

Gumboot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:42 am

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:33 am "Bazball' strikes me as a wanky name for describing the way Australia has played for most of the last 20 years.

When did Australia last declare on day one of a test?

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:55 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:42 am

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:33 am "Bazball' strikes me as a wanky name for describing the way Australia has played for most of the last 20 years.

When did Australia last declare on day one of a test?

Aside from yesterday, when did England?

Gumboot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:01 am

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:55 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:42 am

When did Australia last declare on day one of a test?

Aside from yesterday, when did England?

February 16, 2023 at the Mount. They went on to win by 267 runs.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:18 am Two schools of thought: "let's just see this out to close of play and start afresh tomorrow", "let's wrap this up even if it means a couple of awkward overs tonight" I somehow doubt that Aussies would think the former - but who knows...

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:49 am

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:33 am "Bazball' strikes me as a wanky name for describing the way Australia has played for most of the last 20 years.

The positive attitude to batting England have taken is revolutionary, see the ridiculous record breaking chases. It’s done wonders mentally for our batsmen who tied themselves in knots for years. I’m less convinced on the declarations etc. I saw this in a Championship match I was at in April - Notts declared stupidly aggressively (albeit rain affected) and ended up losing to a shite Middlesex side despite dominating most of the game. The fundamentals of cricket still haven’t shifted.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:10 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:49 am

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:33 am "Bazball' strikes me as a wanky name for describing the way Australia has played for most of the last 20 years.

The positive attitude to batting England have taken is revolutionary, see the ridiculous record breaking chases. It’s done wonders mentally for our batsmen who tied themselves in knots for years. I’m less convinced on the declarations etc. I saw this in a Championship match I was at in April - Notts declared stupidly aggressively (albeit rain affected) and ended up losing to a shite Middlesex side despite dominating most of the game. The fundamentals of cricket still haven’t shifted.

Yep 100%. The aggressive batting is new and hugely refreshing. Beyond what the likes of Oz were doing back in the day. Great to watch.

The silly declarations though can do one. I don't care how cavalier you're trying to be. They just aren't the % play and never will be.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:05 pm You can't half arse Bazball. It's part of the magic of it that England are willing to go all out aggressive, be it Stokes approach to batting or the declarations or any other way in which England take the ultra attacking option every time. The declarations also serve to give England as much time as possible to bowl, which has served us very well especially when weather is a factor as it will be in this Test.

It works very well for this group of players and I hope they don't back down from it.

As for the Aussies not being intimidated by it, Ponting and Taylor seemed to think otherwise, judging by how defensively they started day one and how negative they were after the first over, allowing England to pick up a huge number of singles because of the fear of a flood of boundaries from the off.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:05 pm You can't half arse Bazball. It's part of the magic of it that England are willing to go all out aggressive, be it Stokes approach to batting or the declarations or any other way in which England take the ultra attacking option every time. The declarations also serve to give England as much time as possible to bowl, which has served us very well especially when weather is a factor as it will be in this Test.

It works very well for this group of players and I hope they don't back down from it.

As for the Aussies not being intimidated by it, Ponting and Taylor seemed to think otherwise, judging by how defensively they started day one and how negative they were after the first over, allowing England to pick up a huge number of singles because of the fear of a flood of boundaries from the off.

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:33 am "Bazball' strikes me as a wanky name for describing the way Australia has played for most of the last 20 years.

England's aggression with the bat, if not completely unheard of before, has taken things to a new level. Across 12 Test under McCullum and Stokes, England have scored at a rate of 4.76 - a sustained assault that has never been matched in the history of the game.

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:00 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:05 pm You can't half arse Bazball. It's part of the magic of it that England are willing to go all out aggressive, be it Stokes approach to batting or the declarations or any other way in which England take the ultra attacking option every time. The declarations also serve to give England as much time as possible to bowl, which has served us very well especially when weather is a factor as it will be in this Test.

It works very well for this group of players and I hope they don't back down from it.

As for the Aussies not being intimidated by it, Ponting and Taylor seemed to think otherwise, judging by how defensively they started day one and how negative they were after the first over, allowing England to pick up a huge number of singles because of the fear of a flood of boundaries from the off.

Hmm, maybe. I tend to agree with Guy, 2 days of Bazball and we are pretty much where we would have expected anyway.

At the end of the day, it’s why we love cricket I guess

Calculon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:28 am Aren't you over egging it a bit? Admittadly I've watched very little cricket for ages but apart from the dip in form pre bazzball, England have been a pretty decent team for ages, since around 2004 or so I think, and periodic thrashings in Australia excepted. Going forward, and with the decline of test cricket outside the likes of England, Australia and India there's no reason why they shouldn't be vying for the top spot, bazzball or no bazzball.

Anyway, I think this was the last time the Aussies managed to win the ashes in England. Not a bad Australian team

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/aus ... -scorecard

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:05 pm You can't half arse Bazball. It's part of the magic of it that England are willing to go all out aggressive, be it Stokes approach to batting or the declarations or any other way in which England take the ultra attacking option every time. The declarations also serve to give England as much time as possible to bowl, which has served us very well especially when weather is a factor as it will be in this Test.

It works very well for this group of players and I hope they don't back down from it.

As for the Aussies not being intimidated by it, Ponting and Taylor seemed to think otherwise, judging by how defensively they started day one and how negative they were after the first over, allowing England to pick up a huge number of singles because of the fear of a flood of boundaries from the off.

Moeen Ali has been fined 25% of his match fee and handed one demerit point after admitting to using an unauthorised drying agent on his bowling hand in the first Ashes Test.

In announcing the decision, the International Cricket Council accepted Moeen, who is making his Test return this week after a near two-year absence, used the spray to dry his hands and not in an attempt to alter the condition of the ball. However, its use was in contravention of the umpires’ pre-series instruction against players using anything on their hands without prior approval.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:32 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:05 pm You can't half arse Bazball. It's part of the magic of it that England are willing to go all out aggressive, be it Stokes approach to batting or the declarations or any other way in which England take the ultra attacking option every time. The declarations also serve to give England as much time as possible to bowl, which has served us very well especially when weather is a factor as it will be in this Test.

It works very well for this group of players and I hope they don't back down from it.

As for the Aussies not being intimidated by it, Ponting and Taylor seemed to think otherwise, judging by how defensively they started day one and how negative they were after the first over, allowing England to pick up a huge number of singles because of the fear of a flood of boundaries from the off.

This is true to the extent that you can't criticise the side as and when an aggressive approach leaves us 90 all out. I don't think it follows that batting aggressively also requires dumb declarations.

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:03 pm Quick 300 here and declare?

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:58 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:32 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:05 pm You can't half arse Bazball. It's part of the magic of it that England are willing to go all out aggressive, be it Stokes approach to batting or the declarations or any other way in which England take the ultra attacking option every time. The declarations also serve to give England as much time as possible to bowl, which has served us very well especially when weather is a factor as it will be in this Test.

It works very well for this group of players and I hope they don't back down from it.

As for the Aussies not being intimidated by it, Ponting and Taylor seemed to think otherwise, judging by how defensively they started day one and how negative they were after the first over, allowing England to pick up a huge number of singles because of the fear of a flood of boundaries from the off.

This is true to the extent that you can't criticise the side as and when an aggressive approach leaves us 90 all out. I don't think it follows that batting aggressively also requires dumb declarations.

What was dumb about it? It gave England essentially two goes at the top order, it sped up the game, it prevented Anderson getting bounced, and it sent a message to Australia that England were not going to stop going after them.

Sacrificing some runs to do that is just the calculation being made. You might think it's not worth the loss of the runs, but it's not dumb. There's real intent and thought behind a decision like that. Will it always work? No, as with a lot of things they'll try. But it's worth trying.

Australia have been all over England today and most of the evening session yesterday and are just about looking like drawing level with England, despite all of England's self inflicted injuries (literally in Mo's case, plus the drops and the no ball wicket). Remarkable, really.