NPR

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:13 pm**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:15 pm Largest city in Western Europe locking down just a few days before Christmas - this will be carnage

The whole of Germany is going into Lockdown

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:22 pm**

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:13 pm
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:15 pm Largest city in Western Europe locking down just a few days before Christmas - this will be carnage
The whole of Germany is going into Lockdown

I did a little snigger at this

"The first German was vaccinated yesterday – in England …“

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:24 pm**

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:13 pm
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:15 pm Largest city in Western Europe locking down just a few days before Christmas - this will be carnage
The whole of Germany is going into Lockdown

Yup. 16 Dec to 10 Jan. Their numbers have climbed again in the last month and their local canton management strategy has failed. Rather like USA State by State version too.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:55 pm**

In the US certain states have had stricter lockdowns than others, but there is no clear picture to show which has been more effective. Some with stricter lockdowns have a high infection rate while others a low rate, and similarly with the laxer lockdown states.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:03 pm**

Fangle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:55 pm In the US certain states have had stricter lockdowns than others, but there is no clear picture to show which has been more effective. Some with stricter lockdowns have a high infection rate while others a low rate, and similarly with the laxer lockdown states.

That speaks more to there being problems with no overall strategy, little coordination and the like, not that strict lockdowns haven't demonstrably worked.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:15 pm**

frodder wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:42 pm What part of Herts are you from PB and SaintK? I used to live there many years ago and loved every minute of it

On outskirts of Stevenage been there donkey's years. 30 minutes to London by train. Not that i've been doing much of that this year
My rugby club is in Welwyn Gdn City
Great area

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:38 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:24 pm
Saint wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:13 pm
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:15 pm Largest city in Western Europe locking down just a few days before Christmas - this will be carnage
The whole of Germany is going into Lockdown
Yup. 16 Dec to 10 Jan. Their numbers have climbed again in the last month and their local canton management strategy has failed. Rather like USA State by State version too.

It’s almost like lockdowns don’t actually work.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:44 pm**

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:03 pm
Fangle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:55 pm In the US certain states have had stricter lockdowns than others, but there is no clear picture to show which has been more effective. Some with stricter lockdowns have a high infection rate while others a low rate, and similarly with the laxer lockdown states.
That speaks more to there being problems with no overall strategy, little coordination and the like, not that strict lockdowns haven't demonstrably worked.

In a way that would be like having an overall strategy for the whole of Europe. For instance, even Georgia has about the same population of Sweden. As it happens the states with the highest death rates are New Jersey and New York which have had amongst the most severe lockdowns.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:27 pm**

SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:15 pm
frodder wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:42 pm What part of Herts are you from PB and SaintK? I used to live there many years ago and loved every minute of it
On outskirts of Stevenage been there donkey's years. 30 minutes to London by train. Not that i've been doing much of that this year
My rugby club is in Welwyn Gdn City
Great area

You’re not far away from me.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:31 pm**

SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:15 pm
frodder wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:42 pm What part of Herts are you from PB and SaintK? I used to live there many years ago and loved every minute of it
On outskirts of Stevenage been there donkey's years. 30 minutes to London by train. Not that i've been doing much of that this year
My rugby club is in Welwyn Gdn City
Great area

Excellent area indeed. My son was born in WGC hospital and lived in Hertford. Loved the area

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:39 pm**

Fangle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:44 pm
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:03 pm
Fangle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:55 pm In the US certain states have had stricter lockdowns than others, but there is no clear picture to show which has been more effective. Some with stricter lockdowns have a high infection rate while others a low rate, and similarly with the laxer lockdown states.
That speaks more to there being problems with no overall strategy, little coordination and the like, not that strict lockdowns haven't demonstrably worked.
In a way that would be like having an overall strategy for the whole of Europe. For instance, even Georgia has about the same population of Sweden. As it happens the states with the highest death rates are New Jersey and New York which have had amongst the most severe lockdowns.

There really isn't excuse for the failings led by the Trump executive but also ably supported by many at a state level, and certainly not in noting other places exist too, nor in saying stronger lockdowns after the horse has bolted have't prevented all problems. Which isn't to say strong and competent leadership could have prevented all the problems either, but it didn't need to be this bad or anything close.

Not that you get the impression Trump cares, he's more focussed on getting up to a half a billion dollars raised on the back on a nonsense conspiracy theory. Which is troubling when there's still such scope for this virus to cause so many more problems.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:03 pm**

SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:15 pm
frodder wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:42 pm What part of Herts are you from PB and SaintK? I used to live there many years ago and loved every minute of it
On outskirts of Stevenage been there donkey's years. 30 minutes to London by train. Not that i've been doing much of that this year
My rugby club is in Welwyn Gdn City
Great area

All "rugby related activity" cancelled until 10th January up at Hertford RFC. Although in fairness my boy left early last week, he was frozen and wet through and the coaches just had them standing around too bloody long. He's got less meat on him than a Chicken McNugget and was having a really shit time so I perceived discretion to be the better part of valour when confronted with a crying child.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:10 pm**

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:39 pm
Fangle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:44 pm
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:03 pm

That speaks more to there being problems with no overall strategy, little coordination and the like, not that strict lockdowns haven't demonstrably worked.
In a way that would be like having an overall strategy for the whole of Europe. For instance, even Georgia has about the same population of Sweden. As it happens the states with the highest death rates are New Jersey and New York which have had amongst the most severe lockdowns.
There really isn't excuse for the failings led by the Trump executive but also ably supported by many at a state level, and certainly not in noting other places exist too, nor in saying stronger lockdowns after the horse has bolted have't prevented all problems. Which isn't to say strong and competent leadership could have prevented all the problems either, but it didn't need to be this bad or anything close.

Not that you get the impression Trump cares, he's more focussed on getting up to a half a billion dollars raised on the back on a nonsense conspiracy theory. Which is troubling when there's still such scope for this virus to cause so many more problems.

Has he ever expressed any sympathy for the deaths? I can't recall him saying anything. I know he's a fucking lunatic piece of shit whose self-loathing extends to a desire that if he can't have it, no one can, but even people I have no time for such as Johnson have at least done the decent thing in public.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:33 pm**

It’s sad that the UK has an even worse death rate than the US. Oh, I agree Trump was no bloody good at all, but the governors of the individual states have more authority there than the president who can only recommend.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:19 pm**

Fangle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:33 pm It’s sad that the UK has an even worse death rate than the US. Oh, I agree Trump was no bloody good at all, but the governors of the individual states have more authority there than the president who can only recommend.

I'd be very surprised if that turns out to be true.

The Republicans are suppressing the figures for deaths from Covid, with the enthusiasm they usually reserve for suppressing the black vote.

Just look at what the piece of shit DeSantis did to the data scientist who wouldn't play along with him gaming the numbers in Florida.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:22 pm**

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:19 pm

The Republicans are suppressing the figures for deaths from Covid, with the enthusiasm they usually reserve for suppressing the black vote.

Just look at what the piece of shit DeSantis did to the data scientist who wouldn't play along with him gaming the numbers in Florida.

That was shocking, how is the response to a public official worried about people dying thought to be raid that person's home with drawn guns, and then lie about having had guns drawn?

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:37 pm**

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02544-6

why did Hancock even mention it today ?

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:05 pm**

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:37 pm https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02544-6

why did Hancock even mention it today ?

I dunno but it's set the MSM into a new level of frenzy

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:17 pm**

frodder wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:05 pm
Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:37 pm https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02544-6

why did Hancock even mention it today ?
I dunno but it's set the MSM into a new level of frenzy

He's covering for London not being in Tier 3 two weeks ago "If it weren't for that pesky mutation... "

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:32 pm**

Saint wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:17 pm
frodder wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:05 pm
Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:37 pm https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02544-6

why did Hancock even mention it today ?
I dunno but it's set the MSM into a new level of frenzy
He's covering for London not being in Tier 3 two weeks ago "If it weren't for that pesky mutation... "

This. Govt have literally done everything wrong. Everything. It’s like a gift.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:36 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:32 pm
Saint wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:17 pm
frodder wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:05 pm

I dunno but it's set the MSM into a new level of frenzy
He's covering for London not being in Tier 3 two weeks ago "If it weren't for that pesky mutation... "
This. Govt have literally done everything wrong. Everything. It’s like a gift.

The BBC are absolutely wetting themselves about this. That tit Hancock has surpassed himself

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:51 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:32 pm
Saint wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:17 pm
frodder wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:05 pm

I dunno but it's set the MSM into a new level of frenzy
He's covering for London not being in Tier 3 two weeks ago "If it weren't for that pesky mutation... "
This. Govt have literally done everything wrong. Everything. It’s like a gift.

and people think Cummings has gone ....

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:38 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:32 pm
Saint wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:17 pm
frodder wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:05 pm

I dunno but it's set the MSM into a new level of frenzy
He's covering for London not being in Tier 3 two weeks ago "If it weren't for that pesky mutation... "
This. Govt have literally done everything wrong. Everything. It’s like a gift.

It’s a slither of truth to set a day or twos narrative, not one question regarding the affect of the lock down on business, or that suddenly they can split counties into different tiers.

It’s deliberate and also aimed at the subsequent public enquiry. It’s amusing though to see posters who’ve swallowed loads more of these from government and repeated them as “fact” for months.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:15 pm**

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:22 pm
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:19 pm

The Republicans are suppressing the figures for deaths from Covid, with the enthusiasm they usually reserve for suppressing the black vote.

Just look at what the piece of shit DeSantis did to the data scientist who wouldn't play along with him gaming the numbers in Florida.
That was shocking, how is the response to a public official worried about people dying thought to be raid that person's home with drawn guns, and then lie about having had guns drawn?

The Media outlets you'd expect pointed out this horrific use of the police, & judiciary; & the people who consume the output from those outlets were horrified; & the outlets you'd expect didn't cover it at all, or painted it as normal, & justified, did so & the people who read their garbage decided it was normal & justified.

Welcome to 21st century.

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:40 am**

Fangle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:44 pm
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:03 pm
Fangle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:55 pm In the US certain states have had stricter lockdowns than others, but there is no clear picture to show which has been more effective. Some with stricter lockdowns have a high infection rate while others a low rate, and similarly with the laxer lockdown states.
That speaks more to there being problems with no overall strategy, little coordination and the like, not that strict lockdowns haven't demonstrably worked.
In a way that would be like having an overall strategy for the whole of Europe. For instance, even Georgia has about the same population of Sweden. As it happens the states with the highest death rates are New Jersey and New York which have had amongst the most severe lockdowns.

Belated lockdowns and while people, at least in the US, Brazil and some third world countries, were still getting a handle on how to respond to the pandemic. In fairness the United States is still getting a handle on it politically, but your medical people are, by and large, in the know.

Without really wishing the labour the point, it is unequivocal that in the absence of a vaccine, strict lockdowns are an effective preventative pleasure. In fact they are the only effective preventative measure. If this is still debatable in some peoples minds, it is those minds that are at issue.

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:54 am**

I gave into temptation today to look at the DM comments section after the new mutant virus that only appears to reside in London/South-East. They've concluded that the vaccines developed (which didn't work anyway) are now null and void.

Oh and the earth is flat apparently

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:44 am**

ORLY!?

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:51 am**

frodder wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:54 am I gave into temptation today to look at the DM comments section after the new mutant virus that only appears to reside in London/South-East. They've concluded that the vaccines developed (which didn't work anyway) are now null and void.

Oh and the earth is flat apparently

You forgot to mention that they weren;t goingto take the vaccine regardless because it had been developed so fast it couldn't possibly be safe

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:06 am**

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:44 am

ORLY!?

It's a shame the Telegraph or Spectator haven't done a big op-ed on why we should all become Sweden recently. It's a shame especially as they've realised doing a Sweden is very harmful and have no good suggestion for what else to do but continue to allow their journos and columnists to write this sort of nonsense.

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:25 am**

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:06 am
Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:44 am

ORLY!?

It's a shame the Telegraph or Spectator haven't done a big op-ed on why we should all become Sweden recently. It's a shame especially as they've realised doing a Sweden is very harmful and have no good suggestion for what else to do but continue to allow their journos and columnists to write this sort of nonsense.

Alison Pearson..........nuff said

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:49 am**

Increasingly unclear to me how on earth this Christmas easing will work. Strikes me as a decision that will kill a lot of people to ensure that families can have the big family gatherings that lead to arguing and divorce every year.
Would rather not spend Christmas on my own but not convinced it's worth the cost not to.

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:58 am**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:49 am Increasingly unclear to me how on earth this Christmas easing will work. Strikes me as a decision that will kill a lot of people to ensure that families can have the big family gatherings that lead to arguing and divorce every year.
Would rather not spend Christmas on my own but not convinced it's worth the cost not to.

It would be the U turns of all U turns if they change it. But looking at most other European countries they appear to have much stricter guidelines in place.
Still I'm sure they know what they're doing

January and February could be carnage here

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:16 am**

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:58 am
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:49 am Increasingly unclear to me how on earth this Christmas easing will work. Strikes me as a decision that will kill a lot of people to ensure that families can have the big family gatherings that lead to arguing and divorce every year.
Would rather not spend Christmas on my own but not convinced it's worth the cost not to.
It would be the U turns of all U turns if they change it. But looking at most other European countries they appear to have much stricter guidelines in place.
Still I'm sure they know what they're doing
January and February could be carnage here

I work with Germans who have been fairly explicit that they aren't going to follow the Christmas rules they have. Plural of anecdote isn't data etc, but I suspect that factors into all government plans

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:31 am**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:49 am Increasingly unclear to me how on earth this Christmas easing will work. Strikes me as a decision that will kill a lot of people to ensure that families can have the big family gatherings that lead to arguing and divorce every year.
Would rather not spend Christmas on my own but not convinced it's worth the cost not to.

If they die it won't be a divorce issue, so there's that.

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:15 am**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:16 am
SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:58 am
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:49 am Increasingly unclear to me how on earth this Christmas easing will work. Strikes me as a decision that will kill a lot of people to ensure that families can have the big family gatherings that lead to arguing and divorce every year.
Would rather not spend Christmas on my own but not convinced it's worth the cost not to.
It would be the U turns of all U turns if they change it. But looking at most other European countries they appear to have much stricter guidelines in place.
Still I'm sure they know what they're doing
January and February could be carnage here
I work with Germans who have been fairly explicit that they aren't going to follow the Christmas rules they have. Plural of anecdote isn't data etc, but I suspect that factors into all government plans

BMJ and HSJ aren't too keen on the governments plans
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry ... b42ebf965

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:20 am**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:49 am Increasingly unclear to me how on earth this Christmas easing will work. Strikes me as a decision that will kill a lot of people to ensure that families can have the big family gatherings that lead to arguing and divorce every year.
Would rather not spend Christmas on my own but not convinced it's worth the cost not to.

I'm the same. Sister and her husband and 12 year old are going up to my (89 year old) Mum for Christmas but I think I'm going to leave it to reduce the potential risk to my Mum. She should be vaccinated in a month or so given her age so I reckon where's the problem in waiting another month or so.

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:53 am**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:49 am Increasingly unclear to me how on earth this Christmas easing will work. Strikes me as a decision that will kill a lot of people to ensure that families can have the big family gatherings that lead to arguing and divorce every year.
Would rather not spend Christmas on my own but not convinced it's worth the cost not to.

We're going to be hosting a few of Mrs Saint's colleagues and partners who can't travel or bubble with family for one reason or another, The general theory is that if one of them were to get it they probably all would anyway, so there's an effective bubble happening already in practise in the real world

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:28 pm**

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:53 am
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:49 am Increasingly unclear to me how on earth this Christmas easing will work. Strikes me as a decision that will kill a lot of people to ensure that families can have the big family gatherings that lead to arguing and divorce every year.
Would rather not spend Christmas on my own but not convinced it's worth the cost not to.
We're going to be hosting a few of Mrs Saint's colleagues and partners who can't travel or bubble with family for one reason or another, The general theory is that if one of them were to get it they probably all would anyway, so there's an effective bubble happening already in practise in the real world

We're visting the in-laws for a couple of hours but that's your lot. I'm beginning to think that's too much but the grief I'll get means we'll probably see it through. Thankfully I won't have to see my sister so there's +-ve's in everything if you look closely enough

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:38 pm**

frodder wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:54 am I gave into temptation today to look at the DM comments section after the new mutant virus that only appears to reside in London/South-East. They've concluded that the vaccines developed (which didn't work anyway) are now null and void.

Oh and the earth is flat apparently

What happened to the different strain that came out of Spain in Sept?

That seems to have been forgotten.

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:44 pm**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:49 am Increasingly unclear to me how on earth this Christmas easing will work. Strikes me as a decision that will kill a lot of people to ensure that families can have the big family gatherings that lead to arguing and divorce every year.
Would rather not spend Christmas on my own but not convinced it's worth the cost not to.

People would ignore any further lockdown.

People are not bothering with calls from Test and Trace, even if they are testing +ve.

Read an article where one test and trace worker said she was having something like 70% of people were ignoring calls.

There needs to be punitive actions.

NPR

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