NPR

For moral/electoral reasons I think Labour will (and should) rule out a coalition or formal agreement with the SNP. However an informal deal where the non Conservative opposition parties agree to abstain on money and confidence votes would make a minority Labour government viable. Or Labour could dare the opposition parties to force another GE where they may be seen as enabling the Conservatives

To me its obvious the disadvantages of FPTP now outweigh the benefits so electoral reform should be the first priorty. Could see the LDs if they are in the right position being able to leverage this

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:34 pm For moral/electoral reasons I think Labour will (and should) rule out a coalition or formal agreement with the SNP. However an informal deal where the non Conservative opposition parties agree to abstain on money and confidence votes would make a minority Labour government viable. Or Labour could dare the opposition parties to force another GE where they may be seen as enabling the Conservatives

To me its obvious the disadvantages of FPTP now outweigh the benefits so electoral reform should be the first priorty. Could see the LDs if they are in the right position being able to leverage this

Camerons primary sin; was to arrogantly assume, he could hold a Referendum on Brexit; & not have it go disastrously wrong.

The UK doesn't regularly have them; & it showed in; the preparation, the question, the campaign, & the way the Parliament dealt with the result. Frankly; you fucked up each & every part.

I know its anathema to English Politicians to accept that they don't know everything; or that other Countries might do things better; but they should ask their neighbors to the West, how to present Referendum questions to the voters; so that they actually get an answer that is something that can be turned into legislation.

It isn't enough to just ask the populace if they want to get rid of FPTP; & you haven't a chance in hell of presenting a ballot, with all the available versions of PR; & getting a sensible response; so instead; you need to form a group; that is inclusive; & have them break it down to a maximum of 3-4; & then ask two questions; & if the basic Q, to change or not, gets a majority beyond the minimum to carry it; you use the variant, that gets the most votes.

Something so fundamental as changing FPTP, can't be done on 50% +1 vote; it has to carry by a clear majority.

The ERG etc regularly present Ireland rejecting Referendum Qs, & then accepting them; as some sign of failings for Irish Democracy; but actually it's the complete opposite. The rejections happen because the Government failed to do the ground work to get the Vote thru; so then the have to talk to the voters, & work out why the vote failed; & either clarify, or get the amendments necessary to get enough votes.

Lesson to the UK; you can't whip, or threaten, or Blackmail, ordinary voters; you do actually have the groundwork, & convince them !

So there is apparently a recoding of one of the Tories Chief whips leaning on an MP or MPs.
It's the gift that just keeps giving.
Mark Spencer's intimidation basically corroborates what the Bury South defector said about Blackmail.

No money for your patch if you vote against Boris.
I really hope the police are called this is Public money and probably misconduct in Public office from the Whip.

Boris yet again doing an Arsene Wenger won't wash any more.

C69 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:57 am So there is apparently a recoding of one of the Tories Chief whips leaning on an MP or MPs.
It's the gift that just keeps giving.
Mark Spencer's intimidation basically corroborates what the Bury South defector said.
No money for your patch if you vote against Boris.
I really hope the police are called this is Public money and probably misconduct in Public office from the Whip.

Boris yet again doing an Arsene Wenger won't wash any more.

I had that thought yesterday. Thing to do is make the allegation, let them deny it, then release a recording.

We all know that whips threaten MPs. The really damaging thing would be if they were caught threatening to withhold public funds from rebel MPs constituencies.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:01 am

C69 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:57 am So there is apparently a recoding of one of the Tories Chief whips leaning on an MP or MPs.
It's the gift that just keeps giving.
Mark Spencer's intimidation basically corroborates what the Bury South defector said.
No money for your patch if you vote against Boris.
I really hope the police are called this is Public money and probably misconduct in Public office from the Whip.

Boris yet again doing an Arsene Wenger won't wash any more.

I had that thought yesterday. Thing to do is make the allegation, let them deny it, then release a recording.

We all know that whips threaten MPs. The really damaging thing would be if they were caught threatening to withhold public funds from rebel MPs constituencies.

The transcripts suggest that is exactly what the Tory attack dogs are doing.
Oh dear. They certainly won't be getting my vote.

Could get interesting then. What they should do is hand it over to the Met and put them on the spot. That would be fun.

fishfoodie is not wrong, good post.

Further to that, our entire political culture needs thrown out, the back benchers aren’t plotting to get rid of Bojo the Clown because of moral outrage at his lying, they are trying to save their own grubby little careers. The press is acting in outrage at the partying while the populace followed the rules they brought in, whilst knowing all along that he was an untrustworthy fool.
The entire system is rotten.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-minister

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:53 pm ...
Lesson to the UK; you can't whip, or threaten, or Blackmail, ordinary voters; you do actually have the groundwork, & convince them !

Problem is that dog-whistle politics has become so ingrained here that change is going to be very hard to inspire

I guess this misses the key point on electoral reform - that it isn't in the interests of either party of government. Being able to wield massive majorities enabled Blair to shape the country in ways that are still obvious today, no Labour leader is giving up the opportunity to do the same. Same reason the Tories never flirted with it whilst in the wilderness.

Boris reflects the British position. This man was voted in with a huge and celebrated majority. British people should own that.

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:36 am Boris reflects the British position. This man was voted in with a huge and celebrated majority. British people should own that.

I presume that works the other way as well with your PM?

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:41 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:36 am Boris reflects the British position. This man was voted in with a huge and celebrated majority. British people should own that.

I presume that works the other way as well with your PM?

Absolutely. The majority continues to be proud of Jacinda Ardern 24 months after the pandemic.

Deaths per million:

UK 2239
NZ 10

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:51 am

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:41 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:36 am Boris reflects the British position. This man was voted in with a huge and celebrated majority. British people should own that.

I presume that works the other way as well with your PM?

Absolutely. The majority continues to be proud of Jacinda Ardern 24 months after the pandemic.

Deaths per million:

UK 2239
NZ 10

fuck off snowflake

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:36 am Boris reflects the British position. This man was voted in with a huge and celebrated majority. British people should own that.

I know you're a dribbling moron, but surely even you can work out that 46% of the vote isn't a huge majority.

That it delivers a majority of parliamentary seats speaks to how unfit first past the post is as a means of delivering representative government.

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:52 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:51 am

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:41 am

I presume that works the other way as well with your PM?

Absolutely. The majority continues to be proud of Jacinda Ardern 24 months after the pandemic.

Deaths per million:

UK 2239
NZ 10

fuck off snowflake

Struggling with the numbers, eh? I could not give a fudge.

Piss off muttonbird

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:55 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:36 am Boris reflects the British position. This man was voted in with a huge and celebrated majority. British people should own that.

I know you're a dribbling moron, but surely even you can work out that 46% of the vote isn't a huge majority.

That it delivers a majority of parliamentary seats speaks to how unfit first past the post is as a means of delivering representative government.

Don't make excuses for your parliamentary process. Own it or change it.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:55 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:36 am Boris reflects the British position. This man was voted in with a huge and celebrated majority. British people should own that.

I know you're a dribbling moron, but surely even you can work out that 46% of the vote isn't a huge majority.

That it delivers a majority of parliamentary seats speaks to how unfit first past the post is as a means of delivering representative government.

FM, are there still posters who don't have Muttonmong on ignore?

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:00 am Piss off muttonbird

Are you like the hardest Tory there is here? That's the rumour.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:55 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:36 am Boris reflects the British position. This man was voted in with a huge and celebrated majority. British people should own that.

I know you're a dribbling moron, but surely even you can work out that 46% of the vote isn't a huge majority.

That it delivers a majority of parliamentary seats speaks to how unfit first past the post is as a means of delivering representative government.

FM, are there still posters who don't have Muttonmong on ignore?

Says he who celebrated the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior.

Well, someone's in a spammy mood this morning.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:07 am Well, someone's in a spammy mood this morning.

Mum must have gone out

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:55 am

I know you're a dribbling moron, but surely even you can work out that 46% of the vote isn't a huge majority.

That it delivers a majority of parliamentary seats speaks to how unfit first past the post is as a means of delivering representative government.

FM, are there still posters who don't have Muttonmong on ignore?

Says he who celebrated the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior.

Just fuck off back under that rock you've been hiding under you dribbling troll

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:12 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am
FM, are there still posters who don't have Muttonmong on ignore?

Says he who celebrated the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior.

Just fuck off back under that rock you've been hiding under you dribbling troll

A troll? What have I trolled about? Boris fucking Johnson? That's what this thread is about, isn't it?

Can't see why you of all people wouldn't celebrate, in NZ, a proper pandemic response...

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:12 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am
FM, are there still posters who don't have Muttonmong on ignore?

Says he who celebrated the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior.

Just fuck off back under that rock you've been hiding under you dribbling troll

I don't think this request could be phrased any better.

Don't make us cheer for the virus

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:28 am Don't make us cheer for the virus

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:55 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:36 am Boris reflects the British position. This man was voted in with a huge and celebrated majority. British people should own that.

I know you're a dribbling moron, but surely even you can work out that 46% of the vote isn't a huge majority.

That it delivers a majority of parliamentary seats speaks to how unfit first past the post is as a means of delivering representative government.

FM, are there still posters who don't have Muttonmong on ignore?

Fair. Remedied.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:07 am Could get interesting then. What they should do is hand it over to the Met and put them on the spot. That would be fun.

Depends what you want to achieve though. Giving any new evidence to the Met straight away will just mean a long delay and no change for Blonde Bumblecunt, instead of 'waiting for the Gray enquiry to report' it will be even harder to discuss as it will be 'its sub judice as its being investigated by the Met'? I am sure Baz Javid will keep his brother informed of what's going on though? Public will move on and impact will be lost. If their aim is to get rid of the Blonde Bumblecunt then I would give evidence to the Pippa Crerar and the Paul Brand and then let them run with it first.

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:28 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:12 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am Says he who celebrated the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior.

Just fuck off back under that rock you've been hiding under you dribbling troll

I don't think this request could be phrased any better.

And this response by the most boring poster of all time.

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:12 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am
FM, are there still posters who don't have Muttonmong on ignore?

Says he who celebrated the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior.

Just fuck off back under that rock you've been hiding under you dribbling troll

FM, he's still peddling that lie? When he first trotted that out on PR, I pointed out he'd either got confused in his efforts to troll any Fre poster or had simply made it up. He insisted it was me. Even after explaining to him that I was a Greenpeace Frontline member (member number 0001......) which would make it pretty unlikely I'd be cheering for that particular event.

Oh this is great. Torq is now claiming he is a founding member of Greenpeace. Quite the spectacle for his fellow centrists.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:28 am Don't make us cheer for the virus

What does a 2250/million death rate compared to a 10/million death rate look like in human terms? Do Brits even care?

Zapp, come on.

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:30 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:28 am Don't make us cheer for the virus

What does a 2250/million death rate compared to a 10/million death rate look like in human terms? Do Brits even care?

Muttonbird. I don’t follow any of the history between you and other posters but can you throttle back a bit so it remains an on topic post rather than turning into Planet Rugby shouting match.

This is an excellent reminder of why this place was set up

PCPhil wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:39 am

Muttonbird wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:30 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:28 am Don't make us cheer for the virus

What does a 2250/million death rate compared to a 10/million death rate look like in human terms? Do Brits even care?

Muttonbird. I don’t follow any of the history between you and other posters but can you throttle back a bit so it remains an on topic post rather than turning into Planet Rugby shouting match.

Apologies Phil. My first comment on this thread was that the British people voted for Boris Johnson in a landslide and they should own it. If that is not on topic for this thread, I do not know what is.

We've managed to almost completely eliminate bad faith arguments on here while maintaining robust debate and disagreement. Stop fucking it up. Everyone is aware that you aren't looking for serious responses and are just looking to get a rise out of people.

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:38 amZapp, come on.

+1

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:11 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:38 amZapp, come on.

+1

+2