NPR

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:35 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:37 am

Ted. wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:04 am

Openside, sadly, it appears that you converse with easily led imbeciles on a regular basis. Mind, the version of lockdowns your government imposes might have tainted their thinking, so on receipt of further evidence, I'm willing to consider that I am being uncharitable.

why do you think they are easily led imbeciles?? Most of my mates and social circle are captains of Industry etc. they are not tin foil hat wearing twitter debaters... Social distancing as much as possible is the way forward, its certainly worked for my family for the last 9 months. I just feel its got to the point where the proportion of the population who are frankly not statistically at risk need to be allowed to get on with it. If you are vulnerable or fearful isolate yourself. Interested to see how the vaccine is taken up/works to restore some sense of normality...

A well know character trait of captains of industry is testing positively for psychopathy, so it is possible they're not the people you want to inform a public health debate.

Additional to that I'm out on the golf course most days, running along not playing golf, and watching their groups out on course there are either a lot more married blokes playing golf than I'd have supposed or like the children coming out of school they're stood so close they're basically licking people from other households. These would I suppose almost exclusively be people educated to university level, and still they struggle not to lick each other such is their keenness to spread any virus they might have.

God knows what sort of numpties are on your area, I played to day and managed not to get nearer than a metre to any of the three guys I was playing with save to bump elbows at the end.

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:18 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:35 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:37 am

why do you think they are easily led imbeciles?? Most of my mates and social circle are captains of Industry etc. they are not tin foil hat wearing twitter debaters... Social distancing as much as possible is the way forward, its certainly worked for my family for the last 9 months. I just feel its got to the point where the proportion of the population who are frankly not statistically at risk need to be allowed to get on with it. If you are vulnerable or fearful isolate yourself. Interested to see how the vaccine is taken up/works to restore some sense of normality...

A well know character trait of captains of industry is testing positively for psychopathy, so it is possible they're not the people you want to inform a public health debate.

Additional to that I'm out on the golf course most days, running along not playing golf, and watching their groups out on course there are either a lot more married blokes playing golf than I'd have supposed or like the children coming out of school they're stood so close they're basically licking people from other households. These would I suppose almost exclusively be people educated to university level, and still they struggle not to lick each other such is their keenness to spread any virus they might have.

God knows what sort of numpties are on your area, I played to day and managed not to get nearer than a metre to any of the three guys I was playing with save to bump elbows at the end.

You’re wasting your time on here. They are largely only happy locking us all down, crashing the economy because they think the government can just print more money and continue to stoke irrational fear over a virus that isn’t close to as deadly as they make out.
We are now also expected to cure death as it’s a tragedy whenever anyone dies.

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:44 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:18 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:35 pm

A well know character trait of captains of industry is testing positively for psychopathy, so it is possible they're not the people you want to inform a public health debate.

Additional to that I'm out on the golf course most days, running along not playing golf, and watching their groups out on course there are either a lot more married blokes playing golf than I'd have supposed or like the children coming out of school they're stood so close they're basically licking people from other households. These would I suppose almost exclusively be people educated to university level, and still they struggle not to lick each other such is their keenness to spread any virus they might have.

God knows what sort of numpties are on your area, I played to day and managed not to get nearer than a metre to any of the three guys I was playing with save to bump elbows at the end.

You’re wasting your time on here. They are largely only happy locking us all down, crashing the economy because they think the government can just print more money and continue to stoke irrational fear over a virus that isn’t close to as deadly as they make out.
We are now also expected to cure death as it’s a tragedy whenever anyone dies.

To stress again it's not one or the other. I can accept at the outset of this there were reasonable arguments for going the Sweden route or the NZ route given this was a whole series of unknowns, but we're a long way past unknowns and we need much tighter controls and effective track and trace to allow for more movement and as much as possible a more normal economy.

To think as things stand it's a trade off between the two is odd, they're much more the same thing.

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:18 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:35 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:37 am

why do you think they are easily led imbeciles?? Most of my mates and social circle are captains of Industry etc. they are not tin foil hat wearing twitter debaters... Social distancing as much as possible is the way forward, its certainly worked for my family for the last 9 months. I just feel its got to the point where the proportion of the population who are frankly not statistically at risk need to be allowed to get on with it. If you are vulnerable or fearful isolate yourself. Interested to see how the vaccine is taken up/works to restore some sense of normality...

A well know character trait of captains of industry is testing positively for psychopathy, so it is possible they're not the people you want to inform a public health debate.

Additional to that I'm out on the golf course most days, running along not playing golf, and watching their groups out on course there are either a lot more married blokes playing golf than I'd have supposed or like the children coming out of school they're stood so close they're basically licking people from other households. These would I suppose almost exclusively be people educated to university level, and still they struggle not to lick each other such is their keenness to spread any virus they might have.

God knows what sort of numpties are on your area, I played to day and managed not to get nearer than a metre to any of the three guys I was playing with save to bump elbows at the end.

Captains of industry types mixed with solid middle class. All very conservative and brexity, well say 85% and above

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:44 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:18 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:35 pm

A well know character trait of captains of industry is testing positively for psychopathy, so it is possible they're not the people you want to inform a public health debate.

Additional to that I'm out on the golf course most days, running along not playing golf, and watching their groups out on course there are either a lot more married blokes playing golf than I'd have supposed or like the children coming out of school they're stood so close they're basically licking people from other households. These would I suppose almost exclusively be people educated to university level, and still they struggle not to lick each other such is their keenness to spread any virus they might have.

God knows what sort of numpties are on your area, I played to day and managed not to get nearer than a metre to any of the three guys I was playing with save to bump elbows at the end.

You’re wasting your time on here. They are largely only happy locking us all down, crashing the economy because they think the government can just print more money and continue to stoke irrational fear over a virus that isn’t close to as deadly as they make out.
We are now also expected to cure death as it’s a tragedy whenever anyone dies.

Ain't that the truth, every death is a tragedy and avoidable rather than being the circle of life. These people who fall apart when a parent dies amaze me. I adored both my parents and was sad when they died, I drove 5 hours to Cornwall to be at my mothers side when she died and was back at my desk the next day. Its part of life.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:02 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:18 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:35 pm

A well know character trait of captains of industry is testing positively for psychopathy, so it is possible they're not the people you want to inform a public health debate.

Additional to that I'm out on the golf course most days, running along not playing golf, and watching their groups out on course there are either a lot more married blokes playing golf than I'd have supposed or like the children coming out of school they're stood so close they're basically licking people from other households. These would I suppose almost exclusively be people educated to university level, and still they struggle not to lick each other such is their keenness to spread any virus they might have.

God knows what sort of numpties are on your area, I played to day and managed not to get nearer than a metre to any of the three guys I was playing with save to bump elbows at the end.

Captains of industry types mixed with solid middle class. All very conservative and brexity, well say 85% and above

well you would be wrong there!! Obviously Tory (any one with a brain it really is the only option) but most are anti Brexit the rows we have

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:51 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:47 pm This really isn't going very well

The number of Covid-19 patients in hospital in eastern England is now higher than levels recorded at the peak of the first wave of the virus, PA Media reports. A total of 1,734 hospital patients with confirmed Covid-19 were reported on 16 December. During the first wave, the number of patients in eastern England peaked at 1,679 on 12 April.
This means the first-wave peak of Covid-19 patients has now been surpassed in three of the seven NHS regions in England, PA Media reports. The others are the north-west and the north-east/Yorkshire.

Post Christmas carnage to come

East of England was very light in the Spring. We’ve many more cases in my areas now than at any time previously.

No ones really dying though. The kids are getting a “scratchy” throat for a few hours.

See earlier posts - ONS reckon so far only 9% of pop show antibodies i.e. have had the virus, so 91% population still potentially vulnerable. Also recent studies reckon 10% of those who contract it, even asymptomatically show continuing health issues over 3 months. Its not just about deaths, it also a significant ongoing impact on health and creates an additional strain on the NHS. Its not just 'kids getting a scratchy throat' - to describe it as such ignores the clinical evidence!

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:00 pm

Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:44 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:18 pm
God knows what sort of numpties are on your area, I played to day and managed not to get nearer than a metre to any of the three guys I was playing with save to bump elbows at the end.

You’re wasting your time on here. They are largely only happy locking us all down, crashing the economy because they think the government can just print more money and continue to stoke irrational fear over a virus that isn’t close to as deadly as they make out.
We are now also expected to cure death as it’s a tragedy whenever anyone dies.

To stress again it's not one or the other. I can accept at the outset of this there were reasonable arguments for going the Sweden route or the NZ route given this was a whole series of unknowns, but we're a long way past unknowns and we need much tighter controls and effective track and trace to allow for more movement and as much as possible a more normal economy.

To think as things stand it's a trade off between the two is odd, they're much more the same thing.

Absolutely correct! Those countries that pursued an elimination strategy have seen their economies suffer the least and have rebounded the fastest. all we have done in trying to protect the economy is damage it even further through a ever deepening cycle of ineffective partial lock downs whilst encouraging folk to go out for a meal and watch those in charge break their own rules/regulations/laws. The PH guys told them all this at the very beginning, remember John Ashton on Question Time, it is basic PH response but was ignored by Gov. No economy without public health!

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:18 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:35 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:37 am

why do you think they are easily led imbeciles?? Most of my mates and social circle are captains of Industry etc. they are not tin foil hat wearing twitter debaters... Social distancing as much as possible is the way forward, its certainly worked for my family for the last 9 months. I just feel its got to the point where the proportion of the population who are frankly not statistically at risk need to be allowed to get on with it. If you are vulnerable or fearful isolate yourself. Interested to see how the vaccine is taken up/works to restore some sense of normality...

A well know character trait of captains of industry is testing positively for psychopathy, so it is possible they're not the people you want to inform a public health debate.

Additional to that I'm out on the golf course most days, running along not playing golf, and watching their groups out on course there are either a lot more married blokes playing golf than I'd have supposed or like the children coming out of school they're stood so close they're basically licking people from other households. These would I suppose almost exclusively be people educated to university level, and still they struggle not to lick each other such is their keenness to spread any virus they might have.

God knows what sort of numpties are on your area, I played to day and managed not to get nearer than a metre to any of the three guys I was playing with save to bump elbows at the end.

Sir finally admits he's as good at golf as he is to fixing a lawnmower.

dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:29 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:51 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:47 pm This really isn't going very well

Post Christmas carnage to come

East of England was very light in the Spring. We’ve many more cases in my areas now than at any time previously.

No ones really dying though. The kids are getting a “scratchy” throat for a few hours.

See earlier posts - ONS reckon so far only 9% of pop show antibodies i.e. have had the virus, so 91% population still potentially vulnerable. Also recent studies reckon 10% of those who contract it, even asymptomatically show continuing health issues over 3 months. Its not just about deaths, it also a significant ongoing impact on health and creates an additional strain on the NHS. Its not just 'kids getting a scratchy throat' - to describe it as such ignores the clinical evidence!

9% have antibodies! Is that currently as all the people I know who have had it no longer have antibodies.

dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:29 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:51 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:47 pm This really isn't going very well

Post Christmas carnage to come

East of England was very light in the Spring. We’ve many more cases in my areas now than at any time previously.

No ones really dying though. The kids are getting a “scratchy” throat for a few hours.

See earlier posts - ONS reckon so far only 9% of pop show antibodies i.e. have had the virus, so 91% population still potentially vulnerable. Also recent studies reckon 10% of those who contract it, even asymptomatically show continuing health issues over 3 months. Its not just about deaths, it also a significant ongoing impact on health and creates an additional strain on the NHS. Its not just 'kids getting a scratchy throat' - to describe it as such ignores the clinical evidence!

How the fuck are asymptotic carriers getting health issues...... those health’s issues are symptoms.

Well we shall just ignore T cell immunity while we’re talking about evidence,

They estimate 60,000 with longer than 4 week issues. We don’t know the “long” term issues as the disease isn’t even a year old yet.

Absolutely correct! Those countries that pursued an elimination strategy have seen their economies suffer the least and have rebounded the fastest.

New Zealand’s small and relatively unconnected internal economy then.


There’s no such thing as elimination. Idiot.

Opensides Butler wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:39 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:18 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:35 pm

A well know character trait of captains of industry is testing positively for psychopathy, so it is possible they're not the people you want to inform a public health debate.

Additional to that I'm out on the golf course most days, running along not playing golf, and watching their groups out on course there are either a lot more married blokes playing golf than I'd have supposed or like the children coming out of school they're stood so close they're basically licking people from other households. These would I suppose almost exclusively be people educated to university level, and still they struggle not to lick each other such is their keenness to spread any virus they might have.

God knows what sort of numpties are on your area, I played to day and managed not to get nearer than a metre to any of the three guys I was playing with save to bump elbows at the end.

Sir finally admits he's as good at golf as he is to fixing a lawnmower.

Polish the silver, you clearly don’t understand how golf works

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:58 pm

Absolutely correct! Those countries that pursued an elimination strategy have seen their economies suffer the least and have rebounded the fastest.

New Zealand’s small and relatively unconnected internal economy then.


There’s no such thing as elimination. Idiot.

Whereas NZ is an undoubted success suggesting the U.K. could/should have been able to ‘copy’ their success is just fanciful nonsense.

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:34 pm These people who fall apart when a parent dies amaze me. I adored both my parents and was sad when they died, I drove 5 hours to Cornwall to be at my mothers side when she died and was back at my desk the next day. Its part of life.

Lack of empathy is exactly what Rhubarb and Custard was pointing out.....

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:57 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:29 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:51 pm



East of England was very light in the Spring. We’ve many more cases in my areas now than at any time previously.

No ones really dying though. The kids are getting a “scratchy” throat for a few hours.

See earlier posts - ONS reckon so far only 9% of pop show antibodies i.e. have had the virus, so 91% population still potentially vulnerable. Also recent studies reckon 10% of those who contract it, even asymptomatically show continuing health issues over 3 months. Its not just about deaths, it also a significant ongoing impact on health and creates an additional strain on the NHS. Its not just 'kids getting a scratchy throat' - to describe it as such ignores the clinical evidence!

How the fuck are asymptotic carriers getting health issues...... those health’s issues are symptoms.

Well we shall just ignore T cell immunity while we’re talking about evidence,

They estimate 60,000 with longer than 4 week issues. We don’t know the “long” term issues as the disease isn’t even a year old yet.

By asymptotic I mean folk who did not show covid19 symptoms of loss of taste/smell, temperature, cough, etc but subsequently develop cardiac, stroke or lung issues. Of course you are correct in that these are symptoms of covid19 which sort of contradicts a little your other point about not knowing about the long term effects of the disease. These are long term and for some lifetime health issues that will require ongoing monitoring and medication. But of course you know all this and we have discussed it many times before.

The data tables suggest 9.9% of those with a positive covid19 test continue to have symptoms 12 weeks after test.

If some one has a car accident and is paralysed we know what the long term health issues will be pretty quickly, we don't need to wait for years to understand what they might be! Luckily we have doctors/researchers who can evaluate the long term health consequences of someone who has a cardiac issue or a stroke resulting from covid19 infection and will plan accordingly. Whilst we may not fully understand the full scale and scope of the impact covid19 has yet the research is pretty clear that long covid and associated health impacts will present a hefty burden on the NHS. Probably the reason why the Gov is setting up long covid19 services in the NHS?

You obviously know more about T cell immunity than me. What % of the pop have developed or have this immunity?

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:02 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:58 pm

Absolutely correct! Those countries that pursued an elimination strategy have seen their economies suffer the least and have rebounded the fastest.

New Zealand’s small and relatively unconnected internal economy then.


There’s no such thing as elimination. Idiot.

Whereas NZ is an undoubted success suggesting the U.K. could/should have been able to ‘copy’ their success is just fanciful nonsense.

I don't think it's really fanciful to suggest that the UK, could; have copied the NZs success; the debatable part is the would/should have part.

The UK is an Island, just like NZ; & there is no question that it could have stopped all traffic; & locked down until any existing cases had burnt out. None of that was logistically, or physically impossible.

Being politicial suicide doesn't make it impossible; it just means that the UK didn't lock down in the same way as NZ, because of a Political decision, rather than the task itself being impossible.

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:37 am

Ted. wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:04 am

Openside wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:01 pm

Contrary to popular belief I don't spend all my time at the golf course, (there is also Real Tennis to consider ) I talk you a reasonably large number of people and No one, but no one thinks lockdowns are the way forward. Since golf clubs are full of generally older members of the population (who are most at risk) it doesn't even really make sense as a theory??

Openside, sadly, it appears that you converse with easily led imbeciles on a regular basis. Mind, the version of lockdowns your government imposes might have tainted their thinking, so on receipt of further evidence, I'm willing to consider that I am being uncharitable.

why do you think they are easily led imbeciles?? Most of my mates and social circle are captains of Industry etc. they are not tin foil hat wearing twitter debaters... Social distancing as much as possible is the way forward, its certainly worked for my family for the last 9 months. I just feel its got to the point where the proportion of the population who are frankly not statistically at risk need to be allowed to get on with it. If you are vulnerable or fearful isolate yourself. Interested to see how the vaccine is taken up/works to restore some sense of normality...

It's funny isn't it? Some of my mates that have successful businesses or careers, were also decrying our lockdown as unnecessary, disruptive, boneheaded nanny state, scaremongering and economically disastrous with an equally scathing assessment of the government that put it in place. However, most have come around to the idea that the lockdown, as it was implemented in this country, was precisely the correct thing to do. The refuseniks and laggards, well no matter their success or apparent intelligence, they're just refuseniks and laggards, aren't they. Elevating ideology above safety and common sense, which is probably a pretty good definition of an imbecile, wouldn't you say?

As an aside, I did qualify my remarks, but then you didn't provide any support for you mates apart from the captains of industry epithet.

dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:23 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:57 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:29 pm

See earlier posts - ONS reckon so far only 9% of pop show antibodies i.e. have had the virus, so 91% population still potentially vulnerable. Also recent studies reckon 10% of those who contract it, even asymptomatically show continuing health issues over 3 months. Its not just about deaths, it also a significant ongoing impact on health and creates an additional strain on the NHS. Its not just 'kids getting a scratchy throat' - to describe it as such ignores the clinical evidence!

How the fuck are asymptotic carriers getting health issues...... those health’s issues are symptoms.

Well we shall just ignore T cell immunity while we’re talking about evidence,

They estimate 60,000 with longer than 4 week issues. We don’t know the “long” term issues as the disease isn’t even a year old yet.

By asymptotic I mean folk who did not show covid19 symptoms of loss of taste/smell, temperature, cough, etc but subsequently develop cardiac, stroke or lung issues. Of course you are correct in that these are symptoms of covid19 which sort of contradicts a little your other point about not knowing about the long term effects of the disease. These are long term and for some lifetime health issues that will require ongoing monitoring and medication. But of course you know all this and we have discussed it many times before.

The data tables suggest 9.9% of those with a positive covid19 test continue to have symptoms 12 weeks after test.

If some one has a car accident and is paralysed we know what the long term health issues will be pretty quickly, we don't need to wait for years to understand what they might be! Luckily we have doctors/researchers who can evaluate the long term health consequences of someone who has a cardiac issue or a stroke resulting from covid19 infection and will plan accordingly. Whilst we may not fully understand the full scale and scope of the impact covid19 has yet the research is pretty clear that long covid and associated health impacts will present a hefty burden on the NHS. Probably the reason why the Gov is setting up long covid19 services in the NHS?

You obviously know more about T cell immunity than me. What % of the pop have developed or have this immunity?

Anyone who has a stroke or a heart attack is under long term care and health planning.

The reports aren’t borne by figures though, if 9.9% where still suffering seriously we would have 150,000 people listed for this issue.

It’s nonsense to scare the young into behaviour compliance.

I’ve two very good friends now suffering from the resource grab from “covid” one of whom is now sadly terminal. The whole thing is shit.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:26 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:02 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:58 pm

New Zealand’s small and relatively unconnected internal economy then.


There’s no such thing as elimination. Idiot.

Whereas NZ is an undoubted success suggesting the U.K. could/should have been able to ‘copy’ their success is just fanciful nonsense.

I don't think it's really fanciful to suggest that the UK, could; have copied the NZs success; the debatable part is the would/should have part.

The UK is an Island, just like NZ; & there is no question that it could have stopped all traffic; & locked down until any existing cases had burnt out. None of that was logistically, or physically impossible.

Being politicial suicide doesn't make it impossible; it just means that the UK didn't lock down in the same way as NZ, because of a Political decision, rather than the task itself being impossible.

We did lock down.

Other than the virus being endemic here in early February and shutting our borders would have meant nothing in comparison.

But hey we’re an island. Well one with more people arriving and leaving every week than New Zealand sees in a year, a better comparison would be Ireland.

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:54 am

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:00 am

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:37 am

why do you think they are easily led imbeciles?? Most of my mates and social circle are captains of Industry etc. they are not tin foil hat wearing twitter debaters... Social distancing as much as possible is the way forward, its certainly worked for my family for the last 9 months. I just feel its got to the point where the proportion of the population who are frankly not statistically at risk need to be allowed to get on with it. If you are vulnerable or fearful isolate yourself. Interested to see how the vaccine is taken up/works to restore some sense of normality...

I don't think they are easily led imbeciles but there is definately a "type" that has these opinions. People who think they are above it, entitled, ego driven, that type. And I include a few of my close friends and brother in law in that group.

Maybe, but I don’t feel entitled and I am definitely obeying lockdown I just am not sure it is working how it’s meant to. I suspect to be successful it needs to be total barring food shops and I just don’t think that is viable in a non totalitarian state. We really have to learn to live with it or hope the efficacy rates of vaccines are correct or their will be economic meltdown.

Welcome to gulag inc New Zealand. Except you would not literally be welcome, but the sentiment still stands.

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:58 pm

Absolutely correct! Those countries that pursued an elimination strategy have seen their economies suffer the least and have rebounded the fastest.

New Zealand’s small and relatively unconnected internal economy then.


There’s no such thing as elimination. Idiot.

Again we have been here before - you can look back over previous posts to understand what the difference between elimination v eradication strategies are. Pursuing a 'containment' strategy, which is what the UK is doing, is an admission of failure and ruins the economy in a slow, painful strangulation. A constant cycle of lock downs as cases rise just begins to fail and everyone loses trust in the process and we end up in the shit we are now in. Of course we could have followed the 'herd immunity' strategy a la Sweden ... oh that hasn't gone well either. The USA did the same and is now having an equivalent of a 9/11 every day and likely to do so for the next 3 months.

There is a clear positive relationship between pursuing an elimination strategy, and doing it well, and a strong economic recovery. The evidence is clear and has been posted on this thread. We could have followed an elimination strategy - lock down to get the number of cases very low, test-test-test to find cases, have a robust track and trace system to control community transmission when it arises and control borders to avoid inward infection - but decided not to for some unfathomable reason during the summer. In fact we did the opposite and implemented policies that increased community infection, spend £millions on a failed testing and track and trace system and opened our borders to allow inward infection, mostly from UK holiday makers returning home. We now end up facing a 3rd wave which will be even worse than the first 2 and our NHS will be on its knees and at breaking point by mid January.

I suppose the likes of NZ and Australia had the benefit of being island states? Or that the likes of South Korea and Vietnam are insular and unconnected economies? Our containment strategy is a bit like the old saying of keeping doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome each time. Luckily our scientific and clinical community have worked wonders and developed vaccines but too late to avoid the coming 3rd wave in January/February. They have also developed better ways to treat the virus and will reduce the death rate. However many will die of the 'scratchy throat' covid19!

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:30 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:23 pm

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:57 pm

How the fuck are asymptotic carriers getting health issues...... those health’s issues are symptoms.

Well we shall just ignore T cell immunity while we’re talking about evidence,

They estimate 60,000 with longer than 4 week issues. We don’t know the “long” term issues as the disease isn’t even a year old yet.

By asymptotic I mean folk who did not show covid19 symptoms of loss of taste/smell, temperature, cough, etc but subsequently develop cardiac, stroke or lung issues. Of course you are correct in that these are symptoms of covid19 which sort of contradicts a little your other point about not knowing about the long term effects of the disease. These are long term and for some lifetime health issues that will require ongoing monitoring and medication. But of course you know all this and we have discussed it many times before.

The data tables suggest 9.9% of those with a positive covid19 test continue to have symptoms 12 weeks after test.

If some one has a car accident and is paralysed we know what the long term health issues will be pretty quickly, we don't need to wait for years to understand what they might be! Luckily we have doctors/researchers who can evaluate the long term health consequences of someone who has a cardiac issue or a stroke resulting from covid19 infection and will plan accordingly. Whilst we may not fully understand the full scale and scope of the impact covid19 has yet the research is pretty clear that long covid and associated health impacts will present a hefty burden on the NHS. Probably the reason why the Gov is setting up long covid19 services in the NHS?

You obviously know more about T cell immunity than me. What % of the pop have developed or have this immunity?

Anyone who has a stroke or a heart attack is under long term care and health planning.

The reports aren’t borne by figures though, if 9.9% where still suffering seriously we would have 150,000 people listed for this issue.

It’s nonsense to scare the young into behaviour compliance.

I’ve two very good friends now suffering from the resource grab from “covid” one of whom is now sadly terminal. The whole thing is shit.

They may well be under long term care but thats exactly my point - they are avoidable and will cost £££ to the NHS. Docs I know tell me anecdotally that they were seeing double the number of these types of cases to what they would normally see.

The ONS know what they are talking about - it is based on a household survey and testing regime run by experts. I will tell them that Bimbotwat tells them they are talking rubbish. I think the actual number is 148,000?

No one is scaring anyone, young or old, this is a component of a good PH strategy - communication and information to help folk understand the risks they face.

I feel very sorry for your friends, another avoidable consequence of a shit poor UK response to covid19. This is the price to pay for a containment strategy, I also feel dreadful for the doctors and clinicians who know this and are having to make awful decisions because of trying to contain covid19 with limited resources, a knackered staff and not enough beds.

mat the expat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:05 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:34 pm These people who fall apart when a parent dies amaze me. I adored both my parents and was sad when they died, I drove 5 hours to Cornwall to be at my mothers side when she died and was back at my desk the next day. Its part of life.

Lack of empathy is exactly what Rhubarb and Custard was pointing out.....

It doesn’t show any lack of empathy, life goes on and wallowing serves no purpose at all. Fall apart by all means but no reason not to be amazed by it...lots of people don’t have that luxury. (I am not including myself amongst them)

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:56 pm

mat the expat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:05 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:34 pm These people who fall apart when a parent dies amaze me. I adored both my parents and was sad when they died, I drove 5 hours to Cornwall to be at my mothers side when she died and was back at my desk the next day. Its part of life.

Lack of empathy is exactly what Rhubarb and Custard was pointing out.....

It doesn’t show any lack of empathy, life goes on and wallowing serves no purpose at all. Fall apart by all means but no reason not to be amazed by it...lots of people don’t have that luxury. (I am not including myself amongst them)

Guys - you are both right. Everyone deals with grief in different ways and have different coping strategies - lets not argue about something like this. There is no right or wrong in this sort of thing, just different!

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:56 pm

mat the expat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:05 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:34 pm These people who fall apart when a parent dies amaze me. I adored both my parents and was sad when they died, I drove 5 hours to Cornwall to be at my mothers side when she died and was back at my desk the next day. Its part of life.

Lack of empathy is exactly what Rhubarb and Custard was pointing out.....

It doesn’t show any lack of empathy, life goes on and wallowing serves no purpose at all. Fall apart by all means but no reason not to be amazed by it...lots of people don’t have that luxury. (I am not including myself amongst them)

Still lacking empathy.

May be irreparable.

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:01 am

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:56 pm

mat the expat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:05 pm

Lack of empathy is exactly what Rhubarb and Custard was pointing out.....

It doesn’t show any lack of empathy, life goes on and wallowing serves no purpose at all. Fall apart by all means but no reason not to be amazed by it...lots of people don’t have that luxury. (I am not including myself amongst them)

Still lacking empathy.

May be irreparable.

You may be right, I have a spine though so I should be fine

Good show, old chap.

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:03 am

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:01 am

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:56 pm

It doesn’t show any lack of empathy, life goes on and wallowing serves no purpose at all. Fall apart by all means but no reason not to be amazed by it...lots of people don’t have that luxury. (I am not including myself amongst them)

Still lacking empathy.

May be irreparable.

You may be right, I have a spine though so I should be fine

What, what!

Is Openside taking the piss, or is he genuinely unmoved and unconcerned about the pain and suffering of his countrymen and and the deaths of 65,000 of his fellow Brits from COVID-19?

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:25 am Is Openside taking the piss, or is he genuinely unmoved and unconcerned about the pain and suffering of his countrymen and and the deaths of 65,000 of his fellow Brits from COVID-19?

People, no. But when his dog died he couldn’t function for 2 weeks!

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:25 am Is Openside taking the piss, or is he genuinely unmoved and unconcerned about the pain and suffering of his countrymen and and the deaths of 65,000 of his fellow Brits from COVID-19?

Just coming over as a bit of twat really

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:16 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:25 am Is Openside taking the piss, or is he genuinely unmoved and unconcerned about the pain and suffering of his countrymen and and the deaths of 65,000 of his fellow Brits from COVID-19?

People, no. But when his dog died he couldn’t function for 2 weeks!

Not true

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:55 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:25 am Is Openside taking the piss, or is he genuinely unmoved and unconcerned about the pain and suffering of his countrymen and and the deaths of 65,000 of his fellow Brits from COVID-19?

Just coming over as a bit of twat really

I am sorry if I am not wailing and gnashing my teeth enough for you. The point I was trying to make is I back my feelings up with actions as opposed to them being sound bites. Maybe it’s an Army thing, I am de-sensitised.

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:17 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:55 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:25 am Is Openside taking the piss, or is he genuinely unmoved and unconcerned about the pain and suffering of his countrymen and and the deaths of 65,000 of his fellow Brits from COVID-19?

Just coming over as a bit of twat really

I am sorry if I am not wailing and gnashing my teeth enough for you. The point I was trying to make is I back my feelings up with actions as opposed to them being sound bites. Maybe it’s an Army thing, I am de-sensitised.

Ah, the Army

Good stuff, old chap. Proper spine, eh.

Guys ... just get over it

Just a 'scratchy cough' for the kids apparently ...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/16/opin ... 67c0475bb8

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:58 pm

Absolutely correct! Those countries that pursued an elimination strategy have seen their economies suffer the least and have rebounded the fastest.

New Zealand’s small and relatively unconnected internal economy then.


There’s no such thing as elimination. Idiot.

You fucking what!

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:25 am Is Openside taking the piss, or is he genuinely unmoved and unconcerned about the pain and suffering of his countrymen and and the deaths of 65,000 of his fellow Brits from COVID-19?

I took it to be he’s content to grieve his own way and not feel the need to advertise “feelings” to a wider audience. As is perfectly normal.