sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:04 pm
It's only happening because of an unprecedented amount of legally dubious activity from the government. We've never needed the involvement of the judiciary to this extent in my lifetime.
We can return back to the norm once this sorry shower are sent packing at the next election (I live in hope).
One of the potential problems with GLP's actions is that is is feeding into the narrative being promulgated by the Tories and right wing papers and websites that 'leftie lawyers' are using these legal actions to frustrate 'the will of the people' (for which read whatever actions the Government is taking). The Tories have already done great damage to the UK's justice system since 2010, effectively removing access to justice for large swathes of the population. They are now turning their attention to the Judicial Review process, and seem intent on reducing its impact on ministerial decisions, and are using the multiple GLP actions as justification. There is a clear danger that, by the time this shower are voted out, the Justice system will be in such tatters, that it will take an age to repair.
I'm not suggesting that GLP shouldn't proceed to try and hold the Government to account, but I would prefer it if they concentrated more on cases that will have a material impact on the Government's policies and actions, rather than obtaining technical judgements that have little or no impact on how the Government behaves.
If it wasn't GLP, it would be some other person or organisation, e.g. Gina Miller. They just want accountability gone, so they can cream off the public purse, enact shitheel legislation and put out bullshit populist dogwhistles to ensure reelection.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:38 pm
by JM2K6
Yeah, my problem is no-one else has the ability to hold them to account. In an ideal world the GLP would have nothing to do.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:59 pm
by tabascoboy
Conservative minister resigns in anger over Covid fraud
A Conservative minister in the House of Lords has resigned attacking the government's handling of fraudulent Covid business loans. Lord Agnew accused the Treasury of having "no interest in the consequences of fraud to our society". But he said his departure was "not an attack on the prime minister".
Last year, the National Audit Office criticised the government for failing to implement measures to prevent people exploiting Covid schemes. Lord Agnew, a Treasury minister with responsibility for cross-government efficiency, said "a combination of arrogance, indolence and ignorance" was "freezing the government machine". He accused the government of making "schoolboy errors" by giving loans to over 1,000 companies who were not trading when Covid struck.
"I hope that as a virtually unknown minister beyond this place giving up my career might prompt others to get behind this and sort it out," he said.
In a dramatic moment in the House of Lords, he read out his resignation speech in response to a question about loans, and concluded with a "thank you and goodbye". He left the chamber to a round of applause - a rare occurrence in the Lords.
Conservative minister resigns in anger over Covid fraud
A Conservative minister in the House of Lords has resigned attacking the government's handling of fraudulent Covid business loans. Lord Agnew accused the Treasury of having "no interest in the consequences of fraud to our society". But he said his departure was "not an attack on the prime minister".
Last year, the National Audit Office criticised the government for failing to implement measures to prevent people exploiting Covid schemes. Lord Agnew, a Treasury minister with responsibility for cross-government efficiency, said "a combination of arrogance, indolence and ignorance" was "freezing the government machine". He accused the government of making "schoolboy errors" by giving loans to over 1,000 companies who were not trading when Covid struck.
"I hope that as a virtually unknown minister beyond this place giving up my career might prompt others to get behind this and sort it out," he said.
In a dramatic moment in the House of Lords, he read out his resignation speech in response to a question about loans, and concluded with a "thank you and goodbye". He left the chamber to a round of applause - a rare occurrence in the Lords.
ITV reporting that Boris Johnson had a birthday party during lockdown in 2020. Indoors, thirty guests during the day, singing happy birthday when choirs were banned, and then family and friends in the flat later.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:37 pm
by tabascoboy
Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:30 pm
ITV reporting that Boris Johnson had a birthday party during lockdown in 2020. Indoors, thirty guests during the day, singing happy birthday when choirs were banned, and then family and friends in the flat later.
Well this is pretty specific, someone's spilt the beans!
ITV News understands Boris Johnson had a birthday party during the first lockdown in 2020 despite the rules forbidding social gatherings indoors at the time.
It's alleged that the prime minister's wife, Carrie Johnson, helped organise a surprise get-together for him on the afternoon of 19 June just after 2pm.
Up to 30 people are said to have attended the event in the Cabinet Room after Boris Johnson returned from an official visit to a school in Hertfordshire.
ITV News also understands that on the evening of 19 June 2020, family friends were hosted upstairs in the prime minister’s residence in an apparent further breach of the rules. Number 10 have denied this, claiming the prime minister only hosted a small number of family members outside.
At the afternoon event, Carrie Johnson and Lulu Lytle are believed to have presented the prime minister with a cake whilst his wife led staff in a chorus of happy birthday.
Those assembled are understood to have eaten picnic food from M&S, with the gathering lasting for around 20-30 minutes. Downing St say the prime minister only attended for less than 10 minutes.
In June 2020 social gatherings indoors were still forbidden under lockdown laws. At the time there was also intense concern about the potential for singing to spread Covid-19, with choirs unable to meet to rehearse.
Looks like the Big Dog is due for a little walk round the back of the shed to meet a kind man with a shotgun.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:54 pm
by Rinkals
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:57 am
The worry with the GLP is that the more the judiciary is asking to involve itself in politics the more political it will become. There are good and bad British judges but we don't have a system like the Americans where everyone in politics knows the political views of all judges above a certain level and they are appointed on that basis.
Even with what's currently going on, public opinion is going to be a far more effective remedy for what Boris is up to than anything an inquiry or the courts can come up with IMHO.
As I have posted previously, Judges in the British system are elevated by the Judges themselves based on their track record, and not on their political allegiance as in the American system.
I would imagine that a Supreme Court packed with Judges selected by Boris Johnson would be incapable of handing down justice.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:37 pm
by petej
Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:52 pm
Looks like the Big Dog is due for a little walk round the back of the shed to meet a kind man with a shotgun.
Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:52 pm
Looks like the Big Dog is due for a little walk round the back of the shed to meet a kind man with a shotgun.
Shame it didn't happen 20years ago.
I hope Boris survives
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:18 pm
by tabascoboy
After her petulant swipe at the BBC, wonder what punishment she's going to try and inflict on ITV now...?
Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:30 pm
ITV reporting that Boris Johnson had a birthday party during lockdown in 2020. Indoors, thirty guests during the day, singing happy birthday when choirs were banned, and then family and friends in the flat later.
Well this is pretty specific, someone's spilt the beans!
ITV News understands Boris Johnson had a birthday party during the first lockdown in 2020 despite the rules forbidding social gatherings indoors at the time.
It's alleged that the prime minister's wife, Carrie Johnson, helped organise a surprise get-together for him on the afternoon of 19 June just after 2pm.
Up to 30 people are said to have attended the event in the Cabinet Room after Boris Johnson returned from an official visit to a school in Hertfordshire.
ITV News also understands that on the evening of 19 June 2020, family friends were hosted upstairs in the prime minister’s residence in an apparent further breach of the rules. Number 10 have denied this, claiming the prime minister only hosted a small number of family members outside.
At the afternoon event, Carrie Johnson and Lulu Lytle are believed to have presented the prime minister with a cake whilst his wife led staff in a chorus of happy birthday.
Those assembled are understood to have eaten picnic food from M&S, with the gathering lasting for around 20-30 minutes. Downing St say the prime minister only attended for less than 10 minutes.
In June 2020 social gatherings indoors were still forbidden under lockdown laws. At the time there was also intense concern about the potential for singing to spread Covid-19, with choirs unable to meet to rehearse.
Cripes, it’s a bit churlish only staying for ten minutes at a party that one’s wife has organised.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:50 pm
by salanya
The cake situation would be pretty excusable if little else had happened.
The evening 'gathering' is the biggie though. People weren't allowed to meet with more than 6, and people couldn't travel to see others, and then meeting indoors was a big rule-breaker.
Interesting to note at this stage that Boris had a more active social life in lockdown than most people in an average year.
Peter Bone looking like a tit on Newsnight. It's just swearing Labour voters picking on Boris. The actual British people don't care and love Boris.
Edit: Oh, and its the media who keep talking about this story. And an opposite opinion to his can't possibly be true. What a knob - and that's being generous.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:57 am
The worry with the GLP is that the more the judiciary is asking to involve itself in politics the more political it will become. There are good and bad British judges but we don't have a system like the Americans where everyone in politics knows the political views of all judges above a certain level and they are appointed on that basis.
Even with what's currently going on, public opinion is going to be a far more effective remedy for what Boris is up to than anything an inquiry or the courts can come up with IMHO.
As I have posted previously, Judges in the British system are elevated by the Judges themselves based on their track record, and not on their political allegiance as in the American system.
I would imagine that a Supreme Court packed with Judges selected by Boris Johnson would be incapable of handing down justice.
Yes which is the worry of what happens if the courts are asked to wade into politics constantly, which is my point. The American Republicans basically shut down the functioning of their state and rig elections for the purpose of appointing judges, because they know that is how you effect political change in their country. We're a number of steps away from that fortunately but it's the risk that looms over the horizon.
Good old Keating. Love him or loath him , he knows how to get the column inch's.
Hard to disagree with him here tbf
Relevance deprivation is a great phrase!
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:28 am
by GogLais
Easy one to get out of - just play the DoY "I was too honourable card". My dear wife organised a surprise event for me that I knew nothing about. I was shocked to see all these people there but I didn't want to embarrass them or my wife by kicking them out immediately. On reflection I should have done so and I apologise for that. Job done.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:11 am
by SaintK
Well, well, well just before she's about to be grilled by the London Assembly police and crime committee
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:17 am
by Paddington Bear
Christ knows how but I still have a feeling he'll ride this out.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:26 am
by I like neeps
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:27 am
by I like neeps
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:17 am
Christ knows how but I still have a feeling he'll ride this out.
I think he will as well. But mostly as there's nobody really in position to replace him.
Good luck taking over as PM during inflation and tax rises.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:31 am
by PCPhil
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:17 am
Christ knows how but I still have a feeling he'll ride this out.
So do I. If police launch an investigation then surely the Sue Grey report has to be paused. How long could a police investigation take? Well as long as they want it to. Will a prosecution be found to be in the public interest? Doubt it and no one can challenge it. Where’s the Sue Grey report? Oh, I don’t know. Think we left it outside and the rain got to it.
We really are living in a strange country.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:34 am
by fishfoodie
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:17 am
Christ knows how but I still have a feeling he'll ride this out.
He was obviously hoping for an easier PMQs this week; before Grays report; but now Scummings has shit all over that dream; & is giving everyone a 48 hr run up before the main event.
There's no way to characterise this as anything other than a party; there was cake & singing FFS. As the QC on LBC just pointed out; how long he says he attended for is irrelevant.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:40 am
by tabascoboy
GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:28 am
Easy one to get out of - just play the DoY "I was too honourable card". My dear wife organised a surprise event for me that I knew nothing about. I was shocked to see all these people there but I didn't want to embarrass them or my wife by kicking them out immediately. On reflection I should have done so and I apologise for that. Job done.
Thinking of running for PM? You seem to have the credentials right here
GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:28 am
Easy one to get out of - just play the DoY "I was too honourable card". My dear wife organised a surprise event for me that I knew nothing about. I was shocked to see all these people there but I didn't want to embarrass them or my wife by kicking them out immediately. On reflection I should have done so and I apologise for that. Job done.
Thinking of running for PM? You seem to have the credentials right here
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:17 am
Christ knows how but I still have a feeling he'll ride this out.
He was obviously hoping for an easier PMQs this week; before Grays report; but now Scummings has shit all over that dream; & is giving everyone a 48 hr run up before the main event.
There's no way to characterise this as anything other than a party; there was cake & singing FFS. As the QC on LBC just pointed out; how long he says he attended for is irrelevant.
Not sure that PMQs is the make or break people think it is - most people don't watch it and he's now essentially serving at the leisure of the Tory backbenches. If they think he'll win again in 2024 they'll stick with him, he's clearly not resigning.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:58 am
by The sun god
So I am guessing 'agent Grey' can't publish her report while there is a police investigation going on.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:17 am
Christ knows how but I still have a feeling he'll ride this out.
So do I. If police launch an investigation then surely the Sue Grey report has to be paused. How long could a police investigation take? Well as long as they want it to. Will a prosecution be found to be in the public interest? Doubt it and no one can challenge it. Where’s the Sue Grey report? Oh, I don’t know. Think we left it outside and the rain got to it.
We really are living in a strange country.
Certainly provides a pretty good excuse not to make public any findings from the Sue Gray report, "could prejudice any police investigation, will be passed to them blah blah" in the hope they will bury it for a good long time
GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:28 am
Easy one to get out of - just play the DoY "I was too honourable card". My dear wife organised a surprise event for me that I knew nothing about. I was shocked to see all these people there but I didn't want to embarrass them or my wife by kicking them out immediately. On reflection I should have done so and I apologise for that. Job done.
Thinking of running for PM? You seem to have the credentials right here
It's the thirty friends that would be the problem. Sob.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:05 am
by Paddington Bear
The sun god wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:58 am
So I am guessing 'agent Grey' can't publish her report while there is a police investigation going on.
Correct. No idea how long the investigation should take though - you'd think it ought to be pretty quick.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:12 am
by tc27
I think she can publish as her report simply establishes the facts rather than comes to a prejudicial judgement.
Anyway I seriously doubt now that 'wait for Grey' is a line that can hold back 54 letters....possibly the only thing that can is Putin making his move against Ukraine.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:17 am
Christ knows how but I still have a feeling he'll ride this out.
He was obviously hoping for an easier PMQs this week; before Grays report; but now Scummings has shit all over that dream; & is giving everyone a 48 hr run up before the main event.
There's no way to characterise this as anything other than a party; there was cake & singing FFS. As the QC on LBC just pointed out; how long he says he attended for is irrelevant.
Not sure that PMQs is the make or break people think it is - most people don't watch it and he's now essentially serving at the leisure of the Tory backbenches. If they think he'll win again in 2024 they'll stick with him, he's clearly not resigning.
This PM doesn't give a flying fuck for Public opinion; hence his behaviour; but, as you say; the MPs who control his fate; do !
PMQs is just where we get our weekly poll, of his standing with the MPs; & that's what I tune in for
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:19 am
by PCPhil
tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:12 am
I think she can publish as her report simply establishes the facts rather than comes to a prejudicial judgement.
Anyway I seriously doubt now that 'wait for Grey' is a line that can hold back 54 letters....possibly the only thing that can is Putin making his move against Ukraine.
Reports from the Ukraine-Russia border of a fat, straw headed figure blubbering rubbish and lobbing molotov cocktails at Russian tanks.
tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:12 am
I think she can publish as her report simply establishes the facts rather than comes to a prejudicial judgement.
Anyway I seriously doubt now that 'wait for Grey' is a line that can hold back 54 letters....possibly the only thing that can is Putin making his move against Ukraine.
Reports from the Ukraine-Russia border of a fat, straw headed figure blubbering rubbish and lobbing molotov cocktails at Russian tanks.
For all he's a red wine sort of chap throwing champagne cocktails from a suitcase he's dragging around seems more on point
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:39 am
by Lobby
tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:12 am
I think she can publish as her report simply establishes the facts rather than comes to a prejudicial judgement.
Anyway I seriously doubt now that 'wait for Grey' is a line that can hold back 54 letters....possibly the only thing that can is Putin making his move against Ukraine.
Publication delayed officially now:
The Cabinet Office will not publish Sue Gray's report while the Met Police are investigating events at Downing Street and Whitehall during lockdown, the BBC has been told.
It is not clear how long this investigation will take.
The Cabinet Office put out a statement earlier to say the investigation by Gray, a senior civil servant, would be continuing while maintaining "ongoing contact" with the police.
The terms of reference of the Gray investigation say: "As with all internal investigations, if during the course of the work any evidence emerges of behaviour that is potentially a criminal offence, the matter will be referred to the police and the Cabinet Office’s work may be paused."
It comes to something when the PM's best hope for keeping his job is to arrange for a report into his misconduct to be delayed by agreeing to a criminal investigation by the police.
