NPR

Chilli wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:52 am

handyman wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:50 am

Chilli wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:34 am

What changes so much in a player that they can go from actively running away from having to tackle to actually tackling?

Very, very good question.

Maybe Bosch should go play in France.

It's the only way to test the theory. An 1 way ticket would be the way to go...

Chilli wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:34 am

FalseBayFC wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:32 am

Rhule scoring two of his eight tries so far this season.

What changes so much in a player that they can go from actively running away from having to tackle to actually tackling?

Tackling and defence especially out wide is a lot about making the correct reads and then applying a great technique. As smaller players Kolbe and Faf are masters at this. Rhule was a shit defender because henhad poor technique and anticipation. He would make poor hits because of bad technique. He's about 90kg and his power to rate ratio must be insane. Experience and confidence plus his natural athleticism has meant he has improved to the point where he can also play centre.

I watched a lot of Varsity cup and School boy rugby in the last few weeks. The most concerning thing was the number of times the corner kick and rolling mail are used as an attacking option. One match had 4 tries scores by the hooker this way. Our coaches seem to be OK at set piece and forward coaching. But our backline coaching including defence is extremely weak. The strategy by the stronger teams seem to regard forward bashing as the best form of attack. The weaker teams just throw it around desperately.

FalseBayFC wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:00 am Agreed. I think Fassi is heir apparent and Willemse and Gelant still have time to kick on. I think Gelant would have done so by now if he was ever going to. Willemse seems to have similar issues of temperament.

Willemse and Gelant could do with stints overseas. Personally I don't think the domestic environment has sufficient experienced backline players or coaches to develop our backs. So they continue bad habits and don't have mentors to learn from. Guys like Frans Steyn and Ruan Pienaar and Moernaai.

That's why I had so much hope for us moving into a Northern competition. Guys like Faf, Reinach, Willie and Kolbe have really rounded out their games there. Rhule and Lleyds are facing massive Fijians and battle hardened All Blacks week in week out. If they are as kak as many here think they are they would have been kicked out ages ago.

Rhule and Leyds are regular starters in a team that's reached the Champions Cup Final and sits at no 2 in the French League.

Fassi is definitely on the watchlist too yes. Just needs some more consistency in his game, but has massive potential.

I'm a big fan of players getting exposure in Europe. Playing against such a variety of players and play styles and conditions really is a great incubator.
I think it is where a lot of coaching innovation also happens right now...depending on which club you end up with.
It's also a great place for our players to "unlearn" some of the nonsense that has been coached into them back here.

Japan I'm a little more skeptical of as a development environment.
It seems like a good place to maintain match fitness and rehab some persistent injuries, but I haven't really seen many players return from there with massive improvements in their game....maybe some handling skills and fitness improvements due to the pace of the rugby being played there, but that's about it.

Willemse's issue (IMO) is that he has bought into his own hype too much. He tries to do something amazing every time he touches the ball. Did the same during his short stint at Saracens. He gets the ball, and tries to sidestep every opposition player or break the line as a first instinct, instead of trying to create opportunities for team mates to break the line. It makes him seem like a selfish player. I've kind of given up on him to be honest. There's talent there, but he still needs to develop a lot as a player and that will be on him to do; and if he waits too long, other players will leapfrog him.

FalseBayFC wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:19 pm I watched a lot of Varsity cup and School boy rugby in the last few weeks. The most concerning thing was the number of times the corner kick and rolling mail are used as an attacking option. One match had 4 tries scores by the hooker this way. Our coaches seem to be OK at set piece and forward coaching. But our backline coaching including defence is extremely weak. The strategy by the stronger teams seem to regard forward bashing as the best form of attack. The weaker teams just throw it around desperately.

Yep - our coaching seems to be lagging behind locally. You don't see a lot of genuine innovation in attacking shapes/formations or defensive systems.
We are followers, which creates a lag, until you get coach that can innovate something new that disrupts the way things work.
Over the last 2 decades the only local coaches that managed this (IMO) were:
- Jake White with rush defense which was relatively primitive in 2004
- Johann Ackerman who was able to revive the Lions with a combination of journeymen and youth players playing a high speed brand of rugby
- Rassie/Nienaber who developed and refined a very robust defensive tactic over the last decade

Beyond that, it's just been a bunch of copy-cat coaches, or coaches that rely on the same tactics/drills/styles that they've been coaching for years and years, or some oddballs that try very eccentric things that are way too complicated and fanciful to actually be practical at the highest levels of the game.

RG Snyman crocked again. Going in for minor surgery for an unrelated injury.

https://rugby365.com/tournaments/pro14/ ... ife-again/

I saw some of Rhule a few weeks ago and this last game.
Still not great on defence tbh

Leyds did not impress BOD on commentary this weekend with the way he handled the kick offs - missed two or three because sun was in his eyes

Cartman wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:58 pm I saw some of Rhule a few weeks ago and this last game.
Still not great on defence tbh

Leyds did not impress BOD on commentary this weekend with the way he handled the kick offs - missed two or three because sun was in his eyes

Leyds dropped kickoffs at Newlands too. Recurring problem for the lad.

With Augustus signing for Saints, look at the amount of number 8s playing in the Premiership:

Dan du Preez
Shaun Adendorff
Jasper Wiese
Hanro Liebenberg
Ruan Ackermann
Jono Ross
Jaco Coetzee
GJ van Velze
Cornell du Preez*

assfly wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:29 am With Augustus signing for Saints, look at the amount of number 8s playing in the Premiership:

Dan du Preez
Shaun Adendorff
Jasper Wiese
Hanro Liebenberg
Ruan Ackermann
Jono Ross
Jaco Coetzee
GJ van Velze
Cornell du Preez*

Impressed by what I saw of Hanro Liebenberg the other day. Also Jasper but I think he's a bit limited to be a future Bok regular. Same thing for Dan du Preez.

Domestic loose forward stocks also developing nicely. Elrigh Louw, Evan Roos, Francke Horn, Nama Xaba, Tshituka brothers, Phepsi Buthelezi, Celimpilo Gumede. It's ridiculous how many quality loosies we churn out.

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 10:51 am Impressed by what I saw of Hanro Liebenberg the other day. Also Jasper but I think he's a bit limited to be a future Bok regular. Same thing for Dan du Preez.

Jasper is closer to Duane when it comes to similar styles of play, whereas Hando is more like Notshe. Both great options for the Boks, depending on what Rassie wants to do and how much longer Duane is going to play for.

Notsche is the bok incumbent...full stop

FalseBayFC wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 10:56 am Domestic loose forward stocks also developing nicely. Elrigh Louw, Evan Roos, Francke Horn, Nama Xaba, Tshituka brothers, Phepsi Buthelezi, Celimpilo Gumede. It's ridiculous how many quality loosies we churn out.

Has to be the one of the toughest positions to get (and keep!) a Bok cap. We just have some much depth there it's no wonder it's the position where he have the most arguments.
Skinstad/Teichman; the Luke Watson saga; Britney's lack of workrate; Brussow's battle to get the nod; Kolisi...it's so easy to have an opinion when there is so much quality that's neck-and-neck and a conveyor belt of new prospects year after year.

Sards wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:20 am Notsche is the bok incumbent...full stop

Uhm, to be the incumbent he needs to be the last Bok who wore 8 in a test....

Big Nipper wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 1:11 pm

Sards wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:20 am Notsche is the bok incumbent...full stop

Uhm, to be the incumbent he needs to be the last Bok who wore 8 in a test....

There you go. You learn something new every day

Big Nipper wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 1:11 pm

Sards wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:20 am Notsche is the bok incumbent...full stop

Uhm, to be the incumbent he needs to be the last Bok who wore 8 in a test....

Are you sure about that? Did you check it with Rinkey? He played hooker you know.

average joe wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 1:52 pm

Big Nipper wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 1:11 pm

Sards wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:20 am Notsche is the bok incumbent...full stop

Uhm, to be the incumbent he needs to be the last Bok who wore 8 in a test....

Are you sure about that? Did you check it with Rinkey? He played hooker you know.

AJ


I enjoy your banter.
You are real...

Sards wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 5:10 pm

average joe wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 1:52 pm

Big Nipper wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 1:11 pm

Uhm, to be the incumbent he needs to be the last Bok who wore 8 in a test....

Are you sure about that? Did you check it with Rinkey? He played hooker you know.

AJ


I enjoy your banter.
You are real...

A no-nonsense poster, I like it when he pulls the posh posters back in line.

Decent games from Dan du Preez at 8 and Rohan Janse van Rensburg against Exeter but ultimately not enough to win.

Tyrone Green had an incredible game for Quins. After the Lions series he must be a bolter for Bok honours this year. Same for Wilco Louw; must be one of the best tightheads in Europe at the momoment. Bonkers game, well worth a watch.

assfly wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:07 am Decent games from Dan du Preez at 8 and Rohan Janse van Rensburg against Exeter but ultimately not enough to win.

Tyrone Green had an incredible game for Quins. After the Lions series he must be a bolter for Bok honours this year. Same for Wilco Louw; must be one of the best tightheads in Europe at the momoment. Bonkers game, well worth a watch.

Incredible match that. Really enjoyed it. Tricky for Green. I completely agree that he's been terrific this season...reminds me of Damian McKenzie. I just don't know how Rassie & Nienaber are going to shoehorn him into the squad. Mapimpi and Kolbe aren't going anywhere soon, so the only real opportunity is at fullback when Willie retires (he is only 31 now) / gets injured / falls out of favour...and even then it looks like Galant, Willemse and now Fassi have the inside track on the Bok fullback jersey having been part of the Bok setup.

Louw has a similar challenge. As good as he has been for Quins, there is some serious depth at prop...and some African players to boot. Unless those guys get seriously upstaged in international games, and we start to lose scrum dominance which is critical to our gameplan, I doubt the Bok coaches are going to send out an SOS. A real pity because at 26, he is still a youngster in prop years. Amazing how he has matured.

When are they finished to join the Springbokke? Not much time left.

Blake wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:38 am Incredible match that. Really enjoyed it. Tricky for Green. I completely agree that he's been terrific this season...reminds me of Damian McKenzie. I just don't know how Rassie & Nienaber are going to shoehorn him into the squad. Mapimpi and Kolbe aren't going anywhere soon, so the only real opportunity is at fullback when Willie retires (he is only 31 now) / gets injured / falls out of favour...and even then it looks like Galant, Willemse and now Fassi have the inside track on the Bok fullback jersey having been part of the Bok setup.

Louw has a similar challenge. As good as he has been for Quins, there is some serious depth at prop...and some African players to boot. Unless those guys get seriously upstaged in international games, and we start to lose scrum dominance which is critical to our gameplan, I doubt the Bok coaches are going to send out an SOS. A real pity because at 26, he is still a youngster in prop years. Amazing how he has matured.

Yes they're both somewhat down the pecking order, but both have improved a lot since joining Quins.

There's a lot of rugby to be played this year, so I wouldn't be surprised if injury opens the door for one or both of them. Either way, they've got bright futures.

Marcel van der Merwe fairly heavily linked with LI.

Is he any good these days? Seemed decent at Toulon, but saw an article suggesting he straggled back in SA

Blake wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:38 am

assfly wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:07 am Decent games from Dan du Preez at 8 and Rohan Janse van Rensburg against Exeter but ultimately not enough to win.

Tyrone Green had an incredible game for Quins. After the Lions series he must be a bolter for Bok honours this year. Same for Wilco Louw; must be one of the best tightheads in Europe at the momoment. Bonkers game, well worth a watch.

Incredible match that. Really enjoyed it. Tricky for Green. I completely agree that he's been terrific this season...reminds me of Damian McKenzie. I just don't know how Rassie & Nienaber are going to shoehorn him into the squad. Mapimpi and Kolbe aren't going anywhere soon, so the only real opportunity is at fullback when Willie retires (he is only 31 now) / gets injured / falls out of favour...and even then it looks like Galant, Willemse and now Fassi have the inside track on the Bok fullback jersey having been part of the Bok setup.

Louw has a similar challenge. As good as he has been for Quins, there is some serious depth at prop...and some African players to boot. Unless those guys get seriously upstaged in international games, and we start to lose scrum dominance which is critical to our gameplan, I doubt the Bok coaches are going to send out an SOS. A real pity because at 26, he is still a youngster in prop years. Amazing how he has matured.

What is this "African players" thing that you are talking about?

Chilli wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:12 am

Blake wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:38 am

assfly wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:07 am Decent games from Dan du Preez at 8 and Rohan Janse van Rensburg against Exeter but ultimately not enough to win.

Tyrone Green had an incredible game for Quins. After the Lions series he must be a bolter for Bok honours this year. Same for Wilco Louw; must be one of the best tightheads in Europe at the momoment. Bonkers game, well worth a watch.

Incredible match that. Really enjoyed it. Tricky for Green. I completely agree that he's been terrific this season...reminds me of Damian McKenzie. I just don't know how Rassie & Nienaber are going to shoehorn him into the squad. Mapimpi and Kolbe aren't going anywhere soon, so the only real opportunity is at fullback when Willie retires (he is only 31 now) / gets injured / falls out of favour...and even then it looks like Galant, Willemse and now Fassi have the inside track on the Bok fullback jersey having been part of the Bok setup.

Louw has a similar challenge. As good as he has been for Quins, there is some serious depth at prop...and some African players to boot. Unless those guys get seriously upstaged in international games, and we start to lose scrum dominance which is critical to our gameplan, I doubt the Bok coaches are going to send out an SOS. A real pity because at 26, he is still a youngster in prop years. Amazing how he has matured.

What is this "African players" thing that you are talking about?

You honestly want to tiptoe around this conversation?

There are ways of broaching the topic respectfully and sensibly. With Rassie being clear about transformation targets and the importance of representation in the team to grow the game in South Africa, he is serious about including as many black players in the team as he can. Look at the front row talents that have been unearthed, in no small part because they were inspired by Beast. With players like Ox Nche, Lizo Gqoboka, Mbonambi, Dweba etc in the ranks it's going to become more and more challenging for players like Louw to crack into the Bok team unless they put in truly exceptional shifts.

I think Oom's POC abbreviation is probably the best way of getting around a tricky subject. After all, Louw is still an African.

assfly wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:47 am I think Oom's POC abbreviation is probably the best way of getting around a tricky subject. After all, Louw is still an African.

Please leave me out of this.

assfly wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:47 am I think Oom's POC abbreviation is probably the best way of getting around a tricky subject. After all, Louw is still an African.

It's a semantic nuance usually used by those arguing in bad faith.

African in that context clearly refers to Black African of Bantu descent, but you often then have white Afrikaners jumping up and down when it is used interchangeably...because it suits them in that context to be considered "African".

Part of the problem is people pussy-footing around how we talk about this and using coded language. It's infuriating.

POC lumps black, coloured and indian players into a group, and then results into pointless arguments if somebody is "coloured enough" or if a Zimbabwean or Congolese player should be counted or not.
I see that same nonsense in some of the discourse in the UK with the BAME(?) abbreviation. Lumping people into groups are misleading and unhelpful. Coloured players in the Western Cape and black players in the Eastern Cape are drastically different.

Margin__Walker wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:42 am Marcel van der Merwe fairly heavily linked with LI.

Is he any good these days? Seemed decent at Toulon, but saw an article suggesting he straggled back in SA

The guy is an absolute unit but never seemed to be a dominant scrummager or hugely visible around the park. He is only 30 though so maybe he matures late. He is a fairly solid tighthead and won't get shunted around too much but the little I saw of him in the domestic comps this year reinforced my view of him.

FalseBayFC wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:05 am

Margin__Walker wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:42 am Marcel van der Merwe fairly heavily linked with LI.

Is he any good these days? Seemed decent at Toulon, but saw an article suggesting he straggled back in SA

The guy is an absolute unit but never seemed to be a dominant scrummager or hugely visible around the park. He is only 30 though so maybe he matures late. He is a fairly solid tighthead and won't get shunted around too much but the little I saw of him in the domestic comps this year reinforced my view of him.

Cheer. I guess we'll see

Blake wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:21 am

Chilli wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:12 am

Blake wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:38 am

Incredible match that. Really enjoyed it. Tricky for Green. I completely agree that he's been terrific this season...reminds me of Damian McKenzie. I just don't know how Rassie & Nienaber are going to shoehorn him into the squad. Mapimpi and Kolbe aren't going anywhere soon, so the only real opportunity is at fullback when Willie retires (he is only 31 now) / gets injured / falls out of favour...and even then it looks like Galant, Willemse and now Fassi have the inside track on the Bok fullback jersey having been part of the Bok setup.

Louw has a similar challenge. As good as he has been for Quins, there is some serious depth at prop...and some African players to boot. Unless those guys get seriously upstaged in international games, and we start to lose scrum dominance which is critical to our gameplan, I doubt the Bok coaches are going to send out an SOS. A real pity because at 26, he is still a youngster in prop years. Amazing how he has matured.

What is this "African players" thing that you are talking about?

You honestly want to tiptoe around this conversation?

There are ways of broaching the topic respectfully and sensibly. With Rassie being clear about transformation targets and the importance of representation in the team to grow the game in South Africa, he is serious about including as many black players in the team as he can. Look at the front row talents that have been unearthed, in no small part because they were inspired by Beast. With players like Ox Nche, Lizo Gqoboka, Mbonambi, Dweba etc in the ranks it's going to become more and more challenging for players like Louw to crack into the Bok team unless they put in truly exceptional shifts.

I was born in Africa.
I consider myself an African.

Chilli wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:49 am I was born in Africa.
I consider myself an African.

Simplistic way to look at the world, but if that's what makes you happy, more power to you.

Blake wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:56 am

Chilli wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:49 am I was born in Africa.
I consider myself an African.

Simplistic way to look at the world, but if that's what makes you happy, more power to you.

So according to your belief: Trevor Nyakana and I are both South African, but I am a South and Trevor is an African?

It is ok to call a person an Indian, or a Coloured.

You don't have to be so politically correct

Chilli wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:58 am

Blake wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:56 am

Chilli wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:49 am I was born in Africa.
I consider myself an African.

Simplistic way to look at the world, but if that's what makes you happy, more power to you.

So according to your belief: Trevor Nyakana and I are both South African, but I am a South and Trevor is an African?

It is ok to call a person an Indian, or a Coloured.

You don't have to be so politically correct

Nice strawman you slayed there! Well done.

I don't give a fuck about political correctness. I care about correctness.
"African" can be interpreted in a genetic, geographic or political/social context.
It was pretty clear when I was referring to "African players" in my post I was using the political/social context as per the SARU / Government transformation mandate with regards to team representation of "Black African Players".

I guess I could have said "black" instead of "African", but to be honest then I'd just have some other person constructing a Player of Colour = Black strawman I have to bat down.

It was pretty clear what was meant, and you purposefully muddied the water. Well done "captain".

I am an Afrikaanse African.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:46 pm I am an Afrikaanse African.

Mister know-it-all will find something wrong with that as well.

Blake wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:22 pm

Chilli wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:58 am

Blake wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:56 am

Simplistic way to look at the world, but if that's what makes you happy, more power to you.

So according to your belief: Trevor Nyakana and I are both South African, but I am a South and Trevor is an African?

It is ok to call a person an Indian, or a Coloured.

You don't have to be so politically correct

Nice strawman you slayed there! Well done.

I don't give a fuck about political correctness. I care about correctness.
"African" can be interpreted in a genetic, geographic or political/social context.
It was pretty clear when I was referring to "African players" in my post I was using the political/social context as per the SARU / Government transformation mandate with regards to team representation of "Black African Players".

I guess I could have said "black" instead of "African", but to be honest then I'd just have some other person constructing a Player of Colour = Black strawman I have to bat down.

It was pretty clear what was meant, and you purposefully muddied the water. Well done "captain".

Well aren't you sensitive petal?

Time for a group hug.

I do believe that at certain times posters take an anonymous internet forum, like notplanetrugby.com, a lot too seriously.

Watching the English final. Green , AE & Wilco show

Wilco score