NPR

I think we all knew Scott was behind SJ, Harris and probably Jones.

So he would need, or if not makes sense for him to be released to play this weekend

robmatic wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:29 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:05 pm

Jock42 wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:36 pm Knew Scott being in the squad was too good to be true, turning out for Leicester this weekend.

Is it surprising though? He is a 12 who's biggest weakness is his passing, or a 13 who's not a particular defensive standout. He is a brilliant player but he's not what Toonie wants in his 12 or his 13.

I'll admit I've not seen Leicester play recently but I thought he was regarded as a strong defender these days?

Sure, he's not a bad defender (I also haven't seen him since he moved on from Edinburgh), but it's not his USP like it is with Harris.

KingBlairhorn wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:50 pm

robmatic wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:29 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:05 pm

Is it surprising though? He is a 12 who's biggest weakness is his passing, or a 13 who's not a particular defensive standout. He is a brilliant player but he's not what Toonie wants in his 12 or his 13.

I'll admit I've not seen Leicester play recently but I thought he was regarded as a strong defender these days?

Sure, he's not a bad defender (I also haven't seen him since he moved on from Edinburgh), but it's not his USP like it is with Harris.

After reading that he'd been released to play for Tigers I went on their forum and they were singing Scott's praises for his defence, and in fact his general form, from what I read here Huw Jones has not been in good form.

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:47 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:50 pm

robmatic wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:29 pm

I'll admit I've not seen Leicester play recently but I thought he was regarded as a strong defender these days?

Sure, he's not a bad defender (I also haven't seen him since he moved on from Edinburgh), but it's not his USP like it is with Harris.

After reading that he'd been released to play for Tigers I went on their forum and they were singing Scott's praises for his defence, and in fact his general form, from what I read here Huw Jones has not been in good form.

Jones perhaps is better for the bench (if even used) as he covers back 3.

Our backline has 5 Lions in it and is pretty settled. Scott is a good squad option but I don't think he gets ahead of SJ and Harris and it is hard to have a specialist centre on the bench.

Gutted for Scott TBH. I always say this, but he has had a really raw deal as a Scotland player. Nobody's fault particularly, but I'd dearly love to see him play in a Scotland backline where he isn't the only good player (as he was for the bulk of his caps).

Mish has been on the Beeb voicing what many of us have been thinking for a while - namely that having had decent representation on a Lions tour for the first time in forever, our players now know that the players from the other 6N teams aren't any better than they are. Hope he's right. It's been too long since we properly challenged for the title, and it tortures me that we'd have won it this year if we could have held on to beat Wales instead of losing by a point. (Yes, assuming all the other results were the same, but still).

Yr Alban wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:45 pm Gutted for Scott TBH. I always say this, but he has had a really raw deal as a Scotland player. Nobody's fault particularly, but I'd dearly love to see him play in a Scotland backline where he isn't the only good player (as he was for the bulk of his caps).

I like Matt Scott and I think injury robbed him of more than his 39 caps but i am not sure that last part is representative of the how his international career has played out.

He has never been the best player in the team. Hogg broke through at the same time, Maitland the same year Scott was a starter in the 6N. Dunbar and Taylor came along later in 2013, Russell in 2014.

The backline wasn't a 5 test Lion backline like it is now, but more often than not he had good players around him.

Big D wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:12 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:45 pm Gutted for Scott TBH. I always say this, but he has had a really raw deal as a Scotland player. Nobody's fault particularly, but I'd dearly love to see him play in a Scotland backline where he isn't the only good player (as he was for the bulk of his caps).

I like Matt Scott and I think injury robbed him of more than his 39 caps but i am not sure that last part is representative of the how his international career has played out.

He has never been the best player in the team. Hogg broke through at the same time, Maitland the same year Scott was a starter in the 6N. Dunbar and Taylor came along later in 2013, Russell in 2014.

The backline wasn't a 5 test Lion backline like it is now, but more often than not he had good players around him.

Wow, you’re right. I could have sworn that there were at least a couple of years between Scott and Hogg breaking through. Apparently not! Maitland has been around for longer than I thought, too.

Taylor is an odd one. He has always been a great player, but I don’t think he has ever recreated his club form in a Scotland shirt. He was really disappointing every time he played early in his career, and then he had a succession of injuries and became better the more he didn’t play.

I remember Taylor having some good games for Scotland on the wing, but injuries did curtail his international career.
He was awarded Sarries players player of the year when they won the league and Europe, Jamie George has described Taylor as the best he’s ever played with.

It’s a shame we never got to see the best of him in a Scotland shirt, it’s also a shame for him because they tend to be judged at international level rather than at their clubs.

Btw, anyone read the John Barclay article in the Times this week?

The very short version, Cockerill is a bit of a dinosaur and Scott Johnson is a cock

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:14 am I remember Taylor having some good games for Scotland on the wing, but injuries did curtail his international career.
He was awarded Sarries players player of the year when they won the league and Europe, Jamie George has described Taylor as the best he’s ever played with.

It’s a shame we never got to see the best of him in a Scotland shirt, it’s also a shame for him because they tend to be judged at international level rather than at their clubs.

Taylor was an odd one. He passed me by a bit, then came into everyone’s consciousness with that amazing cover tackle v England. After that I started to appreciate how good he was but seems to be almost permanently injured. Nagging feeling he could have been one of our greats

Slick wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:42 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:14 am I remember Taylor having some good games for Scotland on the wing, but injuries did curtail his international career.
He was awarded Sarries players player of the year when they won the league and Europe, Jamie George has described Taylor as the best he’s ever played with.

It’s a shame we never got to see the best of him in a Scotland shirt, it’s also a shame for him because they tend to be judged at international level rather than at their clubs.

Taylor was an odd one. He passed me by a bit, then came into everyone’s consciousness with that amazing cover tackle v England. After that I started to appreciate how good he was but seems to be almost permanently injured. Nagging feeling he could have been one of our greats

He was excellent v France. Can't remember thr year,aybe 2016, but we beat them at MF and he was very good. We scored off him taking a quick tap IIRC.

He was clever but hard to gauge how good he was/could have been. I think he was better than average before the multiple injuries though.

I can never really remember too many games or incidents, it's always "on to the next one", I generally remember overall feelings about players and games.

Slick there is a wonder cover tackle in this highlights vid, but it's against Wales, is that the one you meant? Taylor has serious gas.
Big D's tap and go is in there too.




I think we've come a long way in that we don't miss him as much as we would have in the noughties

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:18 am Btw, anyone read the John Barclay article in the Times this week?

The very short version, Cockerill is a bit of a dinosaur and Scott Johnson is a cock

He's certainly sticking knives in all around the place.

I really like him as a columnist and pundit, not scared to say what he means and gives great insight into pro rugby that a lot of the others either don't have or don't want to talk about.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:49 am I can never really remember too many games or incidents, it's always "on to the next one", I generally remember overall feelings about players and games.

Slick there is a wonder cover tackle in this highlights vid, but it's against Wales, is that the one you meant? Taylor has serious gas.
Big D's tap and go is in there too.




I think we've come a long way in that we don't miss him as much as we would have in the noughties

That must have been it! Could have sworn it was against England.

I know it's a highlights reel, but he oozes class in that 3 minutes.

Imagine the feeling running that try in against France from the tap, with the Murrayfield crowd going wild, absolute dream.

Big D wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:04 am

Slick wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:42 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:14 am I remember Taylor having some good games for Scotland on the wing, but injuries did curtail his international career.
He was awarded Sarries players player of the year when they won the league and Europe, Jamie George has described Taylor as the best he’s ever played with.

It’s a shame we never got to see the best of him in a Scotland shirt, it’s also a shame for him because they tend to be judged at international level rather than at their clubs.

Taylor was an odd one. He passed me by a bit, then came into everyone’s consciousness with that amazing cover tackle v England. After that I started to appreciate how good he was but seems to be almost permanently injured. Nagging feeling he could have been one of our greats

He was excellent v France. Can't remember thr year,aybe 2016, but we beat them at MF and he was very good. We scored off him taking a quick tap IIRC.

He was clever but hard to gauge how good he was/could have been. I think he was better than average before the multiple injuries though.

We've had a few of those over the last 10-15 years. Ross Rennie and Simon Taylor immediately spring to mind too. It's hard to say what they might have been, but Taylor for instance was still an amazing player managing 60+ caps and 2 Lions tours despite the 3(?) serious knee injuries. He might have been our Warburton/McCaw.

KingBlairhorn wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:01 pm

Big D wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:04 am

Slick wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:42 am

Taylor was an odd one. He passed me by a bit, then came into everyone’s consciousness with that amazing cover tackle v England. After that I started to appreciate how good he was but seems to be almost permanently injured. Nagging feeling he could have been one of our greats

He was excellent v France. Can't remember thr year,aybe 2016, but we beat them at MF and he was very good. We scored off him taking a quick tap IIRC.

He was clever but hard to gauge how good he was/could have been. I think he was better than average before the multiple injuries though.

We've had a few of those over the last 10-15 years. Ross Rennie and Simon Taylor immediately spring to mind too. It's hard to say what they might have been, but Taylor for instance was still an amazing player managing 60+ caps and 2 Lions tours despite the 3(?) serious knee injuries. He might have been our Warburton/McCaw.

I'd kill for a Simon Taylor to play 8 for us right now. I'd go as far as a flesh wound for a Dave Denton when he first broke through.

I reckon it's a dead heat between Taylor and Jason White for 'player I'd most like to bring back' right now. White could have been our AWJ in a better team.

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:26 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:01 pm

Big D wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:04 am

He was excellent v France. Can't remember thr year,aybe 2016, but we beat them at MF and he was very good. We scored off him taking a quick tap IIRC.

He was clever but hard to gauge how good he was/could have been. I think he was better than average before the multiple injuries though.

We've had a few of those over the last 10-15 years. Ross Rennie and Simon Taylor immediately spring to mind too. It's hard to say what they might have been, but Taylor for instance was still an amazing player managing 60+ caps and 2 Lions tours despite the 3(?) serious knee injuries. He might have been our Warburton/McCaw.

I'd kill for a Simon Taylor to play 8 for us right now. I'd go as far as a flesh wound for a Dave Denton when he first broke through.

I reckon it's a dead heat between Taylor and Jason White for 'player I'd most like to bring back' right now. White could have been our AWJ in a better team.

Even Joe Ansbro shone brightly for a bit.

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:26 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:01 pm

Big D wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:04 am

He was excellent v France. Can't remember thr year,aybe 2016, but we beat them at MF and he was very good. We scored off him taking a quick tap IIRC.

He was clever but hard to gauge how good he was/could have been. I think he was better than average before the multiple injuries though.

We've had a few of those over the last 10-15 years. Ross Rennie and Simon Taylor immediately spring to mind too. It's hard to say what they might have been, but Taylor for instance was still an amazing player managing 60+ caps and 2 Lions tours despite the 3(?) serious knee injuries. He might have been our Warburton/McCaw.

I'd kill for a Simon Taylor to play 8 for us right now. I'd go as far as a flesh wound for a Dave Denton when he first broke through.

I reckon it's a dead heat between Taylor and Jason White for 'player I'd most like to bring back' right now. White could have been our AWJ in a better team.

Jason White is about half the size now from when he was playing!

There is a piece by Barclay in the Times that really hits home that Cockerill's time had been and gone.

It seems like it had gone beyond "hard" coaching.

Ashman!

Good for him, hope he goes well

Starting XV is pleasantly what most would have predicted.

The bench worries me a little. Ashman, Kebble as a TH, Hodgson and Bayliss are very green at international level.

The surprising thing is that there are no surprises. Team exactly as expected, except possibly for Graham keeping his spot ahead of Steyn and McLean.

Ashman for a ‘capture cap’ off the bench then?

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:15 pm The surprising thing is that there are no surprises. Team exactly as expected, except possibly for Graham keeping his spot ahead of Steyn and McLean.

Ashman for a ‘capture cap’ off the bench then?

I read somewhere that Ashman was asked if he'd considered being picked for England and he answered something along the lines of "Don't be ridiculous".
He's committed to us.

I can only think Rambo and Cherry are not fit, because Japan would have been a more obvious game for the laddie to make his debut.

Big D wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:14 pm Starting XV is pleasantly what most would have predicted.

The bench worries me a little. Ashman, Kebble as a TH, Hodgson and Bayliss are very green at international level.

How often in your life have you looked at a Scotland team selection and thought, "nice". Might be my first.

Is IrnDhu up to this? He has not been setting the heather (or in his case, savanna) alight for Worcester from what I have read and seen.
I suppose he can only really cover wing so having him on the bench would have left us with less positional cover. Hastings and Steyn can cover more positions.

I dont like this. I want to complain about the tombola.

As a bonus for Scottish fans, Glasgow-bound Walter Fifita will play for Tonga again, this time against England, he was impressive last week. The three Embra Fijians are in their squad to play Spain (though now that I've looked I can't see a tv listing for that one) and Emiliano Boffelli lines up at fullback against France.

vball wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:30 pm Is IrnDhu up to this? He has not been setting the heather (or in his case, savanna) alight for Worcester from what I have read and seen.
I suppose he can only really cover wing so having him on the bench would have left us with less positional cover. Hastings and Steyn can cover more positions.

He had a stormer for them at the weekend, scored two very good tries

mos_eisely_ wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:52 pm

vball wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:30 pm Is IrnDhu up to this? He has not been setting the heather (or in his case, savanna) alight for Worcester from what I have read and seen.
I suppose he can only really cover wing so having him on the bench would have left us with less positional cover. Hastings and Steyn can cover more positions.

He had a stormer for them at the weekend, scored two very good tries

fingers crossed then ...

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:20 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:15 pm The surprising thing is that there are no surprises. Team exactly as expected, except possibly for Graham keeping his spot ahead of Steyn and McLean.

Ashman for a ‘capture cap’ off the bench then?

I read somewhere that Ashman was asked if he'd considered being picked for England and he answered something along the lines of "Don't be ridiculous".
He's committed to us.

I can only think Rambo and Cherry are not fit, because Japan would have been a more obvious game for the laddie to make his debut.

Yeah, I saw that - I’m not genuinely concerned about missing out on him! Agree Japan would have made more sense if everyone fit

Slick wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:47 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:26 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:01 pm

We've had a few of those over the last 10-15 years. Ross Rennie and Simon Taylor immediately spring to mind too. It's hard to say what they might have been, but Taylor for instance was still an amazing player managing 60+ caps and 2 Lions tours despite the 3(?) serious knee injuries. He might have been our Warburton/McCaw.

I'd kill for a Simon Taylor to play 8 for us right now. I'd go as far as a flesh wound for a Dave Denton when he first broke through.

I reckon it's a dead heat between Taylor and Jason White for 'player I'd most like to bring back' right now. White could have been our AWJ in a better team.

Jason White is about half the size now from when he was playing!

I met Jason when he was 17 and had just moved down to Watsonians and was staying with a friend of mine. I remember thinking he was far too spindly to ever make it.

Interesting...

Begbie wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:25 pm Interesting...

Feels daft ignoring the Caley region. But the limitations are obvious. Getting semi pros to move is difficult.

Begbie wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:25 pm Interesting...

Not sure what London Scottish will bring to the competition.
They are currently bottom of the English Championship with 0 points and shipped 100 points against Ealing last weekend!!!

SaintK wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:49 pm

Begbie wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:25 pm Interesting...

Not sure what London Scottish will bring to the competition.
They are currently bottom of the English Championship with 0 points and shipped 100 points against Ealing last weekend!!!

The top end of the Championship would batter the Super 6 sides.

It's not that long since 'Scottish were near the top end of that league, they had Serge Betsen coaching and were about the same level as Bristol for a while, there was supposed to be a deal with the SRU, but that ended up with bad feeling iirc.

I think they've moved to a temporary ground, I spoke to a committee guy from Richmond a couple of years ago and that relationship wasn't going well either, at least he was quite resentful towards 'Scottish, but he was pished at the time.

SaintK wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:49 pm

Begbie wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:25 pm Interesting...

Not sure what London Scottish will bring to the competition.
They are currently bottom of the English Championship with 0 points and shipped 100 points against Ealing last weekend!!!

It’s a semi-pro competition, it aspires to be of the level of the English Championship but certainly isn’t yet. I think they’ll bring a lot. How realistic it is to be a semi-pro rugby player living in London though, I have no idea. Sounds tough.

Thats disappointing. Another Caley team or even a Borders one should be the priority.

KingBlairhorn wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:10 pm

SaintK wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:49 pm

Begbie wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:25 pm Interesting...

Not sure what London Scottish will bring to the competition.
They are currently bottom of the English Championship with 0 points and shipped 100 points against Ealing last weekend!!!

It’s a semi-pro competition, it aspires to be of the level of the English Championship but certainly isn’t yet. I think they’ll bring a lot. How realistic it is to be a semi-pro rugby player living in London though, I have no idea. Sounds tough.

I was thinking the opposite to be honest, how many would like a few years in London. I dare say accommodation and decent jobs would come as part of a package

I assume all 8 teams are being supported with travel costs? If that's the case the money they're going to spend should have been used to support the best proposal from the remaining 2 Districts.

I think it's a bit shite they've dictated where the 2 teams are to be based too. Like the initial applications it should be the best 2 proposals from the Districts outside of Edinburgh.