NPR

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:44 am

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:37 am Scotland struggle to 277.

Not sure if that will be enough to keep the Dutch out.

Netherlands will need to score faster than usual so might bring it's own pressure.

Edit - They need to knock it off in 44 or 45 overs depending how far past (1-6 runs) they go past the total by.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:55 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:51 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 8:12 pm

Every sport has weird lines between what is and isn’t acceptable.
Off the top of my head:
Football - acceptable to get in the ref’s face and tell him to fuck off, unacceptable to play on if someone is down injured (rugby vice versa of course)
Rugby - acceptable to pantomime boo until the ref gives a card, unacceptable to boo the kicker, and let’s not forget traditionally acceptable to stamp/fight in a way that could grievously injure someone, so long as you didn’t gouge.
American football - acceptable to hit a player in a manner that can cause brain injury, unacceptable to ‘run up the score’.
Tennis - acceptable to deliberately exaggerate ‘oohs’ and ‘aahs’ after playing a shot, unacceptable for the crowd to make a sound.

I could go on.

What makes cricket’s different is that the Spirit of the Game, far from an abstract concept, is incorporated into the Laws of the Game in the preamble. Like any preamble, the Laws should be interpreted with that in mind.

I don't think we can conflate audience behaviour and that of the sporting participants and that would render some of your examples out of bounds. Anyway
1) Football. No, it's not. And anyone doing so that blatantly would be sent off. I do agree on the down injured thing which is some bizarre effort by footballers to feign some degree of morality.
2) Rugby. That's an audience thing and certainly does not apply in France and so can't be considered global regardless. Stamping was legal. It was permitted under the ruck laws. Hard to see how it wasn't sporting if it was in the laws. You might as well say a hard tackle is unsporting.
3) Yankball. On the brain injury bit: same thing as rucking. I don't know what "run up the score" means!
4) Tennis. Audience again.

Torq I don't know what football you're watching but players routinely scream fuck off to refs and sledging is endemic

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:31 pm Another wicket, 94/3

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:39 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:55 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:51 am

I don't think we can conflate audience behaviour and that of the sporting participants and that would render some of your examples out of bounds. Anyway
1) Football. No, it's not. And anyone doing so that blatantly would be sent off. I do agree on the down injured thing which is some bizarre effort by footballers to feign some degree of morality.
2) Rugby. That's an audience thing and certainly does not apply in France and so can't be considered global regardless. Stamping was legal. It was permitted under the ruck laws. Hard to see how it wasn't sporting if it was in the laws. You might as well say a hard tackle is unsporting.
3) Yankball. On the brain injury bit: same thing as rucking. I don't know what "run up the score" means!
4) Tennis. Audience again.

Torq I don't know what football you're watching but players routinely scream fuck off to refs and sledging is endemic

Maybe it's an entitled, Prem thing? In 40 odd Championship matches last season, I saw plenty of hectoring of refs but never a "f*ck off" directed explicitly at the ref i.e. to his face. I've seen several of our players booked simply for arguing with the ref so pretty sure anything worse would have met with greater sanctions.

I haven't watched a Prem games in many years. It's sh*te. And maybe that's why I don't hear it because it's all miked up in those games?

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:47 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:39 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:55 am Torq I don't know what football you're watching but players routinely scream fuck off to refs and sledging is endemic

Maybe it's an entitled, Prem thing? In 40 odd Championship matches last season, I saw plenty of hectoring of refs but never a "f*ck off" directed explicitly at the ref i.e. to his face. I've seen several of our players booked simply for arguing with the ref so pretty sure anything worse would have met with greater sanctions.

I haven't watched a Prem games in many years. It's sh*te. And maybe that's why I don't hear it because it's all miked up in those games?

Watch any Champions League football? Ligue Un? La Liga? I promise you the Premiership is not some kind of outlier here.

You have to really cross the line to get a red card for yelling abuse at a ref. A "fuck off" doesn't register.

Sledging has been part of the game for a very long time. Remember Materazzi?

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:51 pm England in this test as for the whole series, are doing their best to drop the Ashes. It's the key difference in the series for me.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:45 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:31 pm Another wicket, 94/3

And another.

NL 108/4 off 23.3

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:54 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:51 pm England in this test as for the whole series, are doing their best to drop the Ashes. It's the key difference in the series for me.

Yup. Really don't deserve to win if they shell everything that comes their way behind the stumps.

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:55 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:45 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:31 pm Another wicket, 94/3

And another.

NL 108/4 off 23.3

These two at the crease seem to understand the equation. Scotland need to break this partnership.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:53 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:47 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:39 pm Maybe it's an entitled, Prem thing? In 40 odd Championship matches last season, I saw plenty of hectoring of refs but never a "f*ck off" directed explicitly at the ref i.e. to his face. I've seen several of our players booked simply for arguing with the ref so pretty sure anything worse would have met with greater sanctions.

I haven't watched a Prem games in many years. It's sh*te. And maybe that's why I don't hear it because it's all miked up in those games?

Watch any Champions League football? Ligue Un? La Liga? I promise you the Premiership is not some kind of outlier here.

You have to really cross the line to get a red card for yelling abuse at a ref. A "fuck off" doesn't register.

Sledging has been part of the game for a very long time. Remember Materazzi?

No. Hence my point about being miked up. I honestly haven't seen it at live games although it's hard to hear what is been said. But not on transmitted ones either. TBC, I am talking about explicitly to the ref's face. I'm sure the waving arm in air and muttering/shouting "F*ck off" is commonplace and whilst that's clear dissent, it's not what I am referring to. Accept that is absolutely falls under the wider "unsporting" tag of Paddington's.

Materazzi/sledging in football. It really isn't the same thing. It's done (unless you are dim) out of ref's sight/ears. That's the whole point: to provoke a retaliatory reaction. Cricket is several blokes huddled around a batter (usually) giving continuous gip right under the eyes and ears of both officials and not designed to provoke retaliation but to put the player off into making an error. It's intimidation rather than provocation.

Personally, I think the football comparison is apples and pears. Football really makes little pretence, on and off the field, about being sporting whereas cricket makes a huge noise about it. That, for me, is part of the weird relationship with "sporting behaviour".

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:17 pm
Except I gave an example of how football professes to have sporting values, which you agree with. There’s also a stigma against even great players like say Drogba who were pretty notorious cheats.
Basically every sport has weird codes as to what is and is ‘t acceptable that don’t necessarily make sense from an objective point of view, cricket is no outlier in this. Tbh the one in cricket that has always struck me as really odd is how in a friendly played in the ‘spirit of the game’ it is totally unacceptable to stand your ground having nicked off but appealing for an LBW you know isn’t out is fine and dandy.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:57 am Smith is hilarious, he's always so aggreived at really obvious decisions made against him.

Listen all you had to do was edge it a yard either side of the useless Yorkshire fuck, it's your own fault for nicking it straight into his ginger gut.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:51 pm Looks like a fairly straightforward win for the Dutch unless there is a late collapse. But doing it in time for qualification...it will be very close.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:07 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:51 pm Looks like a fairly straightforward win for the Dutch unless there is a late collapse. But doing it in time for qualification...it will be very close.

Forget that. 5 6's in 10 balls make it a walk in the park for the Dutch. Just 5 runs needed now in ~2 overs.

5 wickets and a ton for Bas de Leede. What a player.

It's a travesty, this 10-team World Cup. Which I would have said regardless of who came out on top today.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:15 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:07 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:51 pm Looks like a fairly straightforward win for the Dutch unless there is a late collapse. But doing it in time for qualification...it will be very close.

Forget that. 5 6's in 10 balls make it a walk in the park for the Dutch. Just 5 runs needed now in ~2 overs.

5 wickets and a ton for Bas de Leede. What a player.

It's a travesty, this 10-team World Cup. Which I would have said regardless of who came out on top today.

Only the fourth or fifth player to take 5 wickets and score a ton in ODIs.

Well done the Dutch, and it is a massive fuck you to the BCCI and ICC in their World Cup that was specifically designed to keep the Associate teams out.

One of the differences today was probably experience - the Dutch were in the World League for the last few years so had ODI series vs England, Pakistan, West Indies, Ireland, Afghanistan, South Africa, New Zealand and Zimbabwe. Scotland were in World League 2 playing Oman, UAE, Nepal, Namibia, Papua New Guinea and USA. Scotland winning World League 2 should have meant they were promoted to the Superleague for the next cycle, but oh look, the BCCI and ICC have decided they don't want to do that anymore so there are no associate v full member ODIs scheduled at all.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:20 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:15 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:07 pm

Forget that. 5 6's in 10 balls make it a walk in the park for the Dutch. Just 5 runs needed now in ~2 overs.

5 wickets and a ton for Bas de Leede. What a player.

It's a travesty, this 10-team World Cup. Which I would have said regardless of who came out on top today.

Only the fourth or fifth player to take 5 wickets and score a ton in ODIs.

Well done the Dutch, and it is a massive fuck you to the BCCI and ICC in their World Cup that was specifically designed to keep the Associate teams out.

One of the differences today was probably experience - the Dutch were in the World League for the last few years so had ODI series vs England, Pakistan, West Indies, Ireland, Afghanistan, South Africa, New Zealand and Zimbabwe. Scotland were in World League 2 playing Oman, UAE, Nepal, Namibia, Papua New Guinea and USA. Scotland winning World League 2 should have meant they were promoted to the Superleague for the next cycle, but oh look, the BCCI and ICC have decided they don't want to do that anymore so there are no associate v full member ODIs scheduled at all.

Yes, the Dutch have had lots of high-level cricket over the last few years, including T20WC and memorable wins over full members. They seem to know exactly how far they can press the accelerator, they've got batting quality throughout with always one player at least standing up and delivering a big innings, and their bowling is nagging and miserly. A pretty good white ball team that fully deserves to be at the World Cup.

But Scotland beat 3 full members in this tournament and it still wasn't enough. Which is beyond shit.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:17 pm This is becoming incredibly hard to watch

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:24 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:20 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:15 pm

Only the fourth or fifth player to take 5 wickets and score a ton in ODIs.

Well done the Dutch, and it is a massive fuck you to the BCCI and ICC in their World Cup that was specifically designed to keep the Associate teams out.

One of the differences today was probably experience - the Dutch were in the World League for the last few years so had ODI series vs England, Pakistan, West Indies, Ireland, Afghanistan, South Africa, New Zealand and Zimbabwe. Scotland were in World League 2 playing Oman, UAE, Nepal, Namibia, Papua New Guinea and USA. Scotland winning World League 2 should have meant they were promoted to the Superleague for the next cycle, but oh look, the BCCI and ICC have decided they don't want to do that anymore so there are no associate v full member ODIs scheduled at all.

Yes, the Dutch have had lots of high-level cricket over the last few years, including T20WC and memorable wins over full members. They seem to know exactly how far they can press the accelerator, they've got batting quality throughout with always one player at least standing up and delivering a big innings, and their bowling is nagging and miserly. A pretty good white ball team that fully deserves to be at the World Cup.

But Scotland beat 3 full members in this tournament and it still wasn't enough. Which is beyond shit.

Let's not forget the Dutch are missing eight players who stayed with their counties in England.

The way these tournaments are set up to handicap associates is beyond a fucking joke.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:25 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:17 pm This is becoming incredibly hard to watch

Big problems for Eng now with Robinson off and Moeen getting slaughtered. Root on next over?

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:46 pm Timely wicket - even with Marsh's stunning innings - Aussie scorecard still pretty lite.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:53 pm Just caught up with the test, Bairstow dropped 2 again today?!

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 3:09 pm Fucking hell, dropped another one.