NPR

Grandpa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 5:50 pm As a Kiwi living in the UK I do not begrudge Stokes playing for England and being lauded.. what a strange take on life...

If that is aimed at my comment - I don't begrudge him....I do wish he was a Kiwi player. I just find some of the punditry and media releases difficult to deal with. That's all.

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 6:34 pm

Grandpa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 5:50 pm As a Kiwi living in the UK I do not begrudge Stokes playing for England and being lauded.. what a strange take on life...

If that is aimed at my comment - I don't begrudge him....I do wish he was a Kiwi player. I just find some of the punditry and media releases difficult to deal with. That's all.

Cam Norrie is more of a Kiwi than Stokes. Ben was pretty young when he came to the UK, and has no hint of a Kiwi accent... if he'd come here aged 21 then I might feel a bit different...

I do however have more affinity with McCullum. When things are going well he's a genius.. when not... he's that silly casual Kiwi who doesn't really have a plan B...

That was an enjoyable day to be at Headingley. I'm knackered.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:26 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 7:17 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:11 pm

No or poor quality helmets as well. Genuinely terrifying

As I repeatedly point out, the likes of Zaheer and Lloyd were both tall men who batted with no helmets, wore glasses and faced the quickest bowlers the world has seen. Ditto helmetless "Magic" Khan who simply smiled at the Windies express men and plundered them for runs. The advent of the helmet was a necessary safety intervention (although not mandatory.......) but since it's arrival, batting techniques have plummeted against genuine quicks. Batsmen no longer keep their eyes on the ball. The old ability to bend inside or outside the line of a bumper has gone. And with it, we see far more batters hit facing equivalent short balls than before. Whilst this doesn't matter physically (rather that than Gatting v Marshall), it means they get out to the short stuff more often and that has been a real theme this series.

Yeah I agree with this. Old cricket is far more watchable and recognisable than old football and rugby (if you stuck the West Indians of the 80s into a modern test they’d still be good without having to adjust their game radically. Someone like Barry John or George Best would of course still be top class now but they’d have to adjust everything about how they played). Probably the two biggest changes are ground fielding, if anything slip fielding generally seems better back in the day, and how people play short pitched bowling.

Re: getting out to the short ball, the risk/reward has changed. If you take it on, you’re probably not going to get badly hurt, and you’ve got a much more powerful bat and the boundary is in from the fence, giving you a much better chance of hitting it for 4/6 than was true 40 odd years ago.

Agreed. Fitness levels are light years ahead. No Aloos or Willis types out there these days. I think ground fielding on average has improved like fitness (unless you are the Windies or Eng this series) but I don't see the super exceptional ones today like Gower, Randall, Jonty, Lloyd etc.

I should have been clearer on the short ball which you should never get out to if you are a good enough batsman because the ball can't hit the stumps: but that only applies where you aren't forced to chase runs which basically means most Test match situations (Eng are not forced to play Bazball). So, you are right to highlight risk v reward. And yeah: I hate these modern bats which (like tennis and golf) have literally altered the balance of power and thus allow players will lesser abilities to thrive.

We all know pyjama has significantly damaged Test cricket: not just commercially but the influence upon techniques. However, what does not get talked about much is Test's own contribution to its downfall and that was the trend from the 90s on to produce dead wickets. No idea why the Windies did this but it killed their pace production line. Even the Aussies crippled Perth. Now, pretty much everything plays like a sub-continent track except in the early parts of Summer in Eng. I think it was you who said earlier that there was nothing like a true quick bowling. Amen to that.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:14 pm Aus batsmen determined to make a game of it and keep the series alive.

I really don't think this Aus team has been very good. I accept playing badly/stupidly is part of being good or not but Eng could easily have been 2 up if
- they had not declared at Edgbaston
- not repeatedly throw wickets away. I applaud Bazball but there is a fine line between aggression and suicide
- could catch a ball
- didn't have Bairstow (see previous point plus his stupidity in getting run out at Lords)

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:31 am

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:14 pm Aus batsmen determined to make a game of it and keep the series alive.

I really don't think this Aus team has been very good. I accept playing badly/stupidly is part of being good or not but Eng could easily have been 2 up if
- they had not declared at Edgbaston
- not repeatedly throw wickets away. I applaud Bazball but there is a fine line between aggression and suicide
- could catch a ball
- didn't have Bairstow (see previous point plus his stupidity in getting run out at Lords)

Third and fourth ones are the ones that really matter (and are largely the same point).

If England had taken their catches, they would have won the first test, they would have been very close in the second, and would have been ahead on first innings in the third.

Complain about tactics and styles as much as you like, their failure is actually about basic skills.

Good session for England, no dropped catches.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:25 am
Agreed. Fitness levels are light years ahead. No Aloos or Willis types out there these days. I think ground fielding on average has improved like fitness (unless you are the Windies or Eng this series) but I don't see the super exceptional ones today like Gower, Randall, Jonty, Lloyd etc.

They don't stand out as much because the general standard has improved so much. Now we casually look at someone like Stokes and don't remark on it, he can slip at a high standard to the quicks or the spinners, he's exceptional in the ring, and (with a working knee) he's super fast around the outfield with an astonishing throw on him. No way he wouldn't have stood out as amazing going back to the time of Rhodes or even earlier

If play goes ahead this evening - I can see Aussie.being absolutely skittled in the current conditions.

I think England might have got a pretty good deal on this match.

Forecast isn't great for tomorrow but Monday looks better, so looks as if there should be enough time for a result in a low scoring game

Oh look! A Shark kicking badly in the 22

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 3:36 pm If play goes ahead this evening - I can see Aussie.being absolutely skittled in the current conditions.

I think England might have got a pretty good deal on this match.

Looking that way, even Bairstow manages to pouch one, things looking up.

Brook bailed out Bairstow there.

Best case for England is probably having Oz 9 down and it start raining. If they have to bat tonight they'll lose a few.

I just yelled, "One of you!" at the tablet I'm watching it on.

From the neutrals' end, Eng really must win this one. A couple of dead rubbers would ruin what has been an engrossing Ashes to date and a shot in the arm for real cricket.

When you consider the 15 drops and 1 missed stumping or whatever it is, the England bowlers deserve credit. That's nearly two extra innings of wickets v a line up with 4 of the top 10 in the world at the start of the series. Especially considering Jimmy was off colour.

250 should be well within reach. 2 days to go so no need to play kamikaze.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:57 pm 250 should be well within reach. 2 days to go so no need to play kamikaze.

Yeah, but this is England !

England ain’t getting that.

Broad should get to 600 in the next test.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:00 pm England ain’t getting that.

Fair to say they will absolute walk it.

Possibly a match defining 5min here.

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:24 pm Possibly a match defining 5min here.

Match defining moment was yesterday evening when Labsouthafrican and Smith went.

Set up very nicely for tomorrow.

Forecast is dry and bright up to about five o’clock.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:34 pm Set up very nicely for tomorrow.

Forecast is dry and bright up to about five o’clock.

Over by lunch.

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:32 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:24 pm Possibly a match defining 5min here.

Match defining moment was yesterday evening when Labsouthafrican and Smith went.

Labushagne is a great flat track bully but can't play English conditions. He and Smith falling to the least likely bowler to take a wicket this series was at least as dim as anything Eng have been accused of.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:03 pm Forecast isn't great for tomorrow but Monday looks better, so looks as if there should be enough time for a result in a low scoring game

Think it's in reverse? Monday looks iffy and tomorrow could be ok...

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:52 pm

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:32 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:24 pm Possibly a match defining 5min here.

Match defining moment was yesterday evening when Labsouthafrican and Smith went.

Labushagne is a great flat track bully but can't play English conditions. He and Smith falling to the least likely bowler to take a wicket this series was at least as dim as anything Eng have been accused of.

Labuschagne is in poor form but he's got an incredible record in English conditions

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 9:59 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:52 pm

Thor Sedan wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:32 pm

Match defining moment was yesterday evening when Labsouthafrican and Smith went.

Labushagne is a great flat track bully but can't play English conditions. He and Smith falling to the least likely bowler to take a wicket this series was at least as dim as anything Eng have been accused of.

Labuschagne is in poor form but he's got an incredible record in English conditions

564 is runs in 15 innings, average of 37. No centuries, 4 half centuries. Not incredible really.

His average is significantly higher in Australia compared to anywhere else.

I think Glamorgan were pretty happy with his ability to play in English conditions

Following the recall against India, he made a composed 81 in the pink-ball Test against Sri Lanka in Brisbane but did not receive a Cricket Australia contract despite being an incumbent in the Test team.

What came next was a key part of his story as he signed for Glamorgan for the first part of the 2019 county season where he would churn out 1114 runs in 10 matches, honing his technique against the moving Duke ball and then winning the race for a spot in the Ashes squad.

Grandpa wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 7:33 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:03 pm Forecast isn't great for tomorrow but Monday looks better, so looks as if there should be enough time for a result in a low scoring game

Think it's in reverse? Monday looks iffy and tomorrow could be ok...

Forecast changes every time I check! Now says showers in later afternoon today and fine tomorrow until the afternoon. Interruptions to play very likely then, but should be able to get 70 - 80 overs at least which will be enough one way or the other

Calculon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 6:35 am I think Glamorgan were pretty happy with his ability to play in English conditions

Following the recall against India, he made a composed 81 in the pink-ball Test against Sri Lanka in Brisbane but did not receive a Cricket Australia contract despite being an incumbent in the Test team.

What came next was a key part of his story as he signed for Glamorgan for the first part of the 2019 county season where he would churn out 1114 runs in 10 matches, honing his technique against the moving Duke ball and then winning the race for a spot in the Ashes squad.

Graeme Hick scored countless runs in county cricket. Didn't make him great at test level.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 8:13 am

Calculon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 6:35 am I think Glamorgan were pretty happy with his ability to play in English conditions

Following the recall against India, he made a composed 81 in the pink-ball Test against Sri Lanka in Brisbane but did not receive a Cricket Australia contract despite being an incumbent in the Test team.

What came next was a key part of his story as he signed for Glamorgan for the first part of the 2019 county season where he would churn out 1114 runs in 10 matches, honing his technique against the moving Duke ball and then winning the race for a spot in the Ashes squad.

Graeme Hick scored countless runs in county cricket. Didn't make him great at test level.

But no one was ever dumb enough to say he couldn't handle English conditions.

Like I said, he's in poor form at the moment, but he also averaged over 50 last Ashes he played in England.

Considering he's not getting out to hooping swing I'd say the conditions have fuck all to do with anything.

Looks like there's some heavy cloud about this morning in the region, but the rain is steering away from Headingly to the east

Starc is going to run through the top order on these conditions.

98 to win, 6 wickets remaining at lunch. I'm going to say "evenly poised"

Scots - and I know plenty of you are on this thread. Any pubs near Waverley station that are unlikely to tell an Englishman to fuck off if he asks for them to show the cricket?

England are going to blow this one too.