NPR

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:52 pm**

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:35 pm Not loving the fact that case numbers aren't dropping in the UK. Yes we're seeing less deaths, but that's going to be coming from historical cases, I'd want to see more drops in new cases discovered before things open up too much. Hopefully masks will help a bit.

Cases are slowly dropping. Test and trace would bring cases. The cases are very localised. Masks will save us apparently.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:01 pm**

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:52 pm
Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:35 pm Not loving the fact that case numbers aren't dropping in the UK. Yes we're seeing less deaths, but that's going to be coming from historical cases, I'd want to see more drops in new cases discovered before things open up too much. Hopefully masks will help a bit.

Cases are slowly dropping. Test and trace would bring cases. The cases are very localised. Masks will save us apparently.

Are they dropping? We've had test and trace for a while now. 2 weeks ago looks about the same or lower as this week.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:12 pm**

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:01 pm
Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:52 pm
Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:35 pm Not loving the fact that case numbers aren't dropping in the UK. Yes we're seeing less deaths, but that's going to be coming from historical cases, I'd want to see more drops in new cases discovered before things open up too much. Hopefully masks will help a bit.

Cases are slowly dropping. Test and trace would bring cases. The cases are very localised. Masks will save us apparently.
Are they dropping? We've had test and trace for a while now. 2 weeks ago looks about the same or lower as this week.

Yes they’re dropping.

We are also under 100 in ICU with the disease.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:25 pm**

As others have noted, test & trace will be having a disproportionate effect on the numbers, as we should now be actively finding asymptomatic carriers that we otherwise wouldn't even test. Additionally, at these levels outbreaks in Leicester and the like will be having very noticeable effects on the infection number

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:33 pm**

Un Pilier wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:59 pm
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:41 pm So it’s less than 24 hours until mandatory face masks in shops and there is still confusion everywhere. This Government is a joke shop!
Tbf I’m not sure what is so confusing. Yes, the detailed guidance was late again and we have had the odd off message pic, but the general tenor seems pretty clear. Wear an effing mask unless there is clear guidance it’s okay not to. And even then this is the mandatory stuff. The fact that I’m “allowed” to go to the pub without a mask doesn’t mean I have to. I’m not defending the government here - just pissed off by people who use any excuse not to do what they damn well should. That’s not a dig at you but one sees it everyday

“The general tenor seems pretty clear”

Yup, that’s the way to manage a deadly global pandemic with 3.5 billion idiots on this rock.....

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:46 pm**

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:12 pm Yes they’re dropping.

We are also under 100 in ICU with the disease.

Based on what are they dropping?

ONS has us levelling off for the last couple of weeks at 1700 new cases a day from the 22nd of June until the 12th of July (each week gave results of 1700 a day estimate). Number of reported cases for the week that should be reported tomorrow, suggest an increase (guess we'll know soon).

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:52 pm**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:33 pm
Un Pilier wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:59 pm
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:41 pm So it’s less than 24 hours until mandatory face masks in shops and there is still confusion everywhere. This Government is a joke shop!
Tbf I’m not sure what is so confusing. Yes, the detailed guidance was late again and we have had the odd off message pic, but the general tenor seems pretty clear. Wear an effing mask unless there is clear guidance it’s okay not to. And even then this is the mandatory stuff. The fact that I’m “allowed” to go to the pub without a mask doesn’t mean I have to. I’m not defending the government here - just pissed off by people who use any excuse not to do what they damn well should. That’s not a dig at you but one sees it everyday
“The general tenor seems pretty clear”

Yup, that’s the way to manage a deadly global pandemic with 3.5 billion idiots on this rock.....

You'd have to wonder WTF they talk about a cabinet meetings; if on a policy as serious & binary as this; the Media can ask three Ministers what the advice is; & get 5 different opinions ?

And the Advisors should know that, if they can't explain the policy to the cabbages around the Cabinet table; & get them to retain it; there isn't much chance of the general public understanding it.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:22 pm**

The policy is deliberately vague so that when everything goes tits up, they can instantly blame the public, like they will when Brexit goes tits up.

I really am not sure we realise the complete charlatans, crooks and just general scumbaggery that are governing us at the moment.
The Tories didn't order an investigation into Russian meddling in our democracy, buried the report for a year, then Boris stood up with a straight face and said there is no evidence of Russian meddling in our democracy, knowing that Tory supporters and Brexitists will all nod their heads.

They are the worst people at the worst time in our history, put in place by a media empire, owned and ran from overseas, who you really have to question whether they actually want to see Britain sunk and destroyed, and a civil war erupt, just for the shits and giggles.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:08 pm**

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:52 pm
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:33 pm
Un Pilier wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:59 pm

Tbf I’m not sure what is so confusing. Yes, the detailed guidance was late again and we have had the odd off message pic, but the general tenor seems pretty clear. Wear an effing mask unless there is clear guidance it’s okay not to. And even then this is the mandatory stuff. The fact that I’m “allowed” to go to the pub without a mask doesn’t mean I have to. I’m not defending the government here - just pissed off by people who use any excuse not to do what they damn well should. That’s not a dig at you but one sees it everyday
“The general tenor seems pretty clear”

Yup, that’s the way to manage a deadly global pandemic with 3.5 billion idiots on this rock.....
You'd have to wonder WTF they talk about a cabinet meetings; if on a policy as serious & binary as this; the Media can ask three Ministers what the advice is; & get 5 different opinions ?

And the Advisors should know that, if they can't explain the policy to the cabbages around the Cabinet table; & get them to retain it; there isn't much chance of the general public understanding it.

So what isn’t clear to you guys?

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:20 pm**

All I know is that whenever I wear my mask (I have a Transformers one with Bumblebee on it) I can’t stop hearing the Eric Clapton song ‘Behind the Mask, which was sampled by Goldie Lookin’ Chain on ‘Your mother’s got a penis’, so I end up walking around singing that.

Confusing times.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:41 pm**

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:01 pm
Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:52 pm
Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:35 pm Not loving the fact that case numbers aren't dropping in the UK. Yes we're seeing less deaths, but that's going to be coming from historical cases, I'd want to see more drops in new cases discovered before things open up too much. Hopefully masks will help a bit.

Cases are slowly dropping. Test and trace would bring cases. The cases are very localised. Masks will save us apparently.
Are they dropping? We've had test and trace for a while now. 2 weeks ago looks about the same or lower as this week.

Recorded cases are not dropping - the 7 day rolling average has been basically static since the 29th June. It was 565 then and the latest we have relativey stable figures for, 14th July, is 563. It's wobbled about between 534 and 573 in the mean time.

(Taking a rolling average from the mid point, so 14th July is the average of 11th-17th July. There's no point including the numbers for 18th July onwards yet, they get revised upwards so dramatically until a week later.)

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:42 pm**

Mahoney wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:41 pm
Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:01 pm
Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:52 pm

Cases are slowly dropping. Test and trace would bring cases. The cases are very localised. Masks will save us apparently.
Are they dropping? We've had test and trace for a while now. 2 weeks ago looks about the same or lower as this week.
Recorded cases are not dropping - the 7 day rolling average has been basically static since the 29th June. It was 565 then and the latest we have relativey stable figures for, 14th July, is 563. It's wobbled about between 534 and 573 in the mean time.

(Taking a rolling average from the mid point, so 14th July is the average of 11th-17th July. There's no point including the numbers for 18th July onwards yet, they get revised upwards so dramatically until a week later.)

So recorded cases aren't dropping. And ONS estimates from their survey isn't dropping either.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:00 pm**

Un Pilier wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:59 pm
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:41 pm So it’s less than 24 hours until mandatory face masks in shops and there is still confusion everywhere. This Government is a joke shop!
Tbf I’m not sure what is so confusing. Yes, the detailed guidance was late again and we have had the odd off message pic, but the general tenor seems pretty clear. Wear an effing mask unless there is clear guidance it’s okay not to. And even then this is the mandatory stuff. The fact that I’m “allowed” to go to the pub without a mask doesn’t mean I have to. I’m not defending the government here - just pissed off by people who use any excuse not to do what they damn well should. That’s not a dig at you but one sees it everyday

What’s confusing is the leaders of the other three nations in the Uk have said -

“Do this, it saves lives, sorry if you don’t like it, but that’s what we have to do”

In England the leader has said “well, so something like his but if that’s not ok, then do somethingelse similar, baaaaa, baaa, I wa mayor, bridges, terrible jocks, were out of Europe, baaaaa, baaaaa, wear a mask if you think that’s ok, I’m not wearing one or perhaps I will, it depends, what does Dominic think, but you people should other it might be your fault, bwaaaah, beaaaah, brexit by the end of the year, mwah mwah love me”

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:07 pm**

“If you have asthma you don’t have to wear a mask in a shop”

I thought asthma sufferers were “at risk” and should stay home?

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:11 pm**

Official COVID deaths are trending steadily down though, by about 1.5 a day since 24th June. And excess deaths are now quite definitely negative - fewer people have died in England and Wales in the last 3 weeks or so than in the same period in any of the previous 5 years.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:33 pm**

Mahoney wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:11 pm Official COVID deaths are trending steadily down though, by about 1.5 a day since 24th June. And excess deaths are now quite definitely negative - fewer people have died in England and Wales in the last 3 weeks or so than in the same period in any of the previous 5 years.

These statistics are more important than case numbers, and as generally before death people are put into hospital, the number hospitalised is a predictor for future deaths.
As the 500 type figure is not actually the number of new cases, but the measured no of positive tests, and as the testing criteria has changed, the 500 type figure of today bears no comparison to a similar figure two months ago.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:41 pm**

Spain is seeing quite a big rise in reported cases - up by a factor over 5 in the last few weeks (from just under 300) and over 2500 reported today.

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:44 pm**

.OverThere wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:33 pm
Mahoney wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:11 pm Official COVID deaths are trending steadily down though, by about 1.5 a day since 24th June. And excess deaths are now quite definitely negative - fewer people have died in England and Wales in the last 3 weeks or so than in the same period in any of the previous 5 years.
These statistics are more important than case numbers, and as generally before death people are put into hospital, the number hospitalised is a predictor for future deaths.
As the 500 type figure is not actually the number of new cases, but the measured no of positive tests, and as the testing criteria has changed, the 500 type figure of today bears no comparison to a similar figure two months ago.

How about 2-3 weeks ago ?

Posted: **Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:52 pm**

Death numbers aren't good evidence now. Deaths are delayed by 3 weeks on average. Some people dying today could have been infected near the start of June, and when dealing with such low figures it just doesn't give an accurate figure.

Given the cases being found now, you'd only expect to see around 12 deaths a day by now, but the tail from deaths doesn't drop quickly.

ONS report should be out tomorrow but I'm not hopeful that they're going to report a drop. Steady or slight increase would be my guess.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:29 am**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:07 pm “If you have asthma you don’t have to wear a mask in a shop”

I thought asthma sufferers were “at risk” and should stay home?

I am asthmatic. I am staying home. Fuck heading out anywhere in disease infested Melbourne.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:30 am**

Mahoney wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:41 pm
Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:01 pm
Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:52 pm

Cases are slowly dropping. Test and trace would bring cases. The cases are very localised. Masks will save us apparently.
Are they dropping? We've had test and trace for a while now. 2 weeks ago looks about the same or lower as this week.
Recorded cases are not dropping - the 7 day rolling average has been basically static since the 29th June. It was 565 then and the latest we have relativey stable figures for, 14th July, is 563. It's wobbled about between 534 and 573 in the mean time.

(Taking a rolling average from the mid point, so 14th July is the average of 11th-17th July. There's no point including the numbers for 18th July onwards yet, they get revised upwards so dramatically until a week later.)

Is testing remaining at the same level?

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:25 am**

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:32 am**

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus ... kers-data/

Claim
125,000 care home staff had been tested for Covid-19 as of mid-May.

Conclusion
This is not correct. Government data shows 125,000 tests on staff in care settings had been processed. It is not possible to tell the number of staff tested but it is likely much lower. The figure also includes tests on other people including family members, social care workers and care home CEOs.

So that's Boris lying to parliament

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:32 am**

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:30 am Is testing remaining at the same level?

Since June 29th? I don’t know. You’d hope it’s getting ever better, more tightly focussed on people who’ve been in contact with people who’ve had it, but I have no hard evidence to show personally.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:30 am**

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:30 amIs testing remaining at the same level?

It's tough to tell. Positivity is extremely low at the moment, so it's unlikely that it's just lower amounts of testing not catching cases. ONS uses it's own methods to determine case numbers though.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:38 am**

First shopping trip wearing the mandatory mask - horrible! Unless it's on just so glasses fog up, and face heats up unbearably. Only wore it while in the supermarket and just grabbed what I could as soon as I could and got out to remove it, felt like I was suffocating. Will have to try a different type of mask I guess, but don't like the waste caused by disposables.

I fully understand health concerns have to take precedence and I must comply but makes me think if part of the intention was to encourage more people to go to local shops to spend money and "get the economy moving" that many people will actually be even less inclined to go to the shops now.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:45 am**

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:38 am First shopping trip wearing the mandatory mask - horrible! Unless it's on just so glasses fog up, and face heats up unbearably. Only wore it while in the supermarket and just grabbed what I could as soon as I could and got out to remove it, felt like I was suffocating. Will have to try a different type of mask I guess, but don't like the waste caused by disposables.

I fully understand health concerns have to take precedence and I must comply but makes me think if part of the intention was to encourage more people to go to local shops to spend money and "get the economy moving" that many people will actually be even less inclined to go to the shops now.

No, it;s not particularly nice - but some people have been wearing masks when shopping for weeks, and some NHS staff are wearing them for hours a day on tope of all the other PPE.

I get that everyone just wants things to get back to normal, but this is how we might get there quicker

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:53 am**

Saint wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:45 am
tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:38 am First shopping trip wearing the mandatory mask - horrible! Unless it's on just so glasses fog up, and face heats up unbearably. Only wore it while in the supermarket and just grabbed what I could as soon as I could and got out to remove it, felt like I was suffocating. Will have to try a different type of mask I guess, but don't like the waste caused by disposables.

I fully understand health concerns have to take precedence and I must comply but makes me think if part of the intention was to encourage more people to go to local shops to spend money and "get the economy moving" that many people will actually be even less inclined to go to the shops now.
No, it;s not particularly nice - but some people have been wearing masks when shopping for weeks, and some NHS staff are wearing them for hours a day on tope of all the other PPE.

I get that everyone just wants things to get back to normal, but this is how we might get there quicker

True, I don't know how they can do it TBH, especially in warm conditions, I think I'd have to give up working in that position. Makes you realise how much we owe them for keeping the service going.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:59 am**

Saint wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:45 am
tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:38 am First shopping trip wearing the mandatory mask - horrible! Unless it's on just so glasses fog up, and face heats up unbearably. Only wore it while in the supermarket and just grabbed what I could as soon as I could and got out to remove it, felt like I was suffocating. Will have to try a different type of mask I guess, but don't like the waste caused by disposables.

I fully understand health concerns have to take precedence and I must comply but makes me think if part of the intention was to encourage more people to go to local shops to spend money and "get the economy moving" that many people will actually be even less inclined to go to the shops now.
No, it;s not particularly nice - but some people have been wearing masks when shopping for weeks, and some NHS staff are wearing them for hours a day on tope of all the other PPE.

I get that everyone just wants things to get back to normal, but this is how we might get there quicker

You do indeed get used to it. Disposable masks are the easiest to wear. The worst are builders/DIY versions.
"Homemade" cloth ones you buy online vary a lot too: get one that is a single piece of cloth (without folds/interior pouch for filters). They tend to not "suck in and out" as you breathe and the excess air goes out the side instead of onto your glasses.

Yes, I've been wearing a mask everywhere including customer sites for work since April.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:00 am**

Fedex Tracking notice for a parcel we sent to USA: Delivered 7/23/2020 - Signed for by: C.OVID

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:02 am**

Yes, I've been wearing a mask everywhere including customer sites for work since April.

Of that there was no doubt.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:03 am**

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:38 am First shopping trip wearing the mandatory mask - horrible! Unless it's on just so glasses fog up, and face heats up unbearably. Only wore it while in the supermarket and just grabbed what I could as soon as I could and got out to remove it, felt like I was suffocating. Will have to try a different type of mask I guess, but don't like the waste caused by disposables.

I fully understand health concerns have to take precedence and I must comply but makes me think if part of the intention was to encourage more people to go to local shops to spend money and "get the economy moving" that many people will actually be even less inclined to go to the shops now.

We've had mandatory mask wearing in Istanbul for ages and it's also somewhat hot and humid here relative to the UK. People seem to be able to get on with things here though.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:03 am**

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:02 am
Yes, I've been wearing a mask everywhere including customer sites for work since April.

Of that there was no doubt.

What mask are you wearing down the farmer's market today?

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:07 am**

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:03 am
Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:02 am
Yes, I've been wearing a mask everywhere including customer sites for work since April.

Of that there was no doubt.
What mask are you wearing down the farmer's market today?

I’ve a paper mask for shopping, I’ll wear it to avoid conflicts. Placebos have a place.

You wear yours driving don’t you?

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:21 am**

Sorry guys but I just don't get all this wimping about wearing a face covering/mask. I'm 60 year old asthmatic and have been wearing a mask for months. It is at worst mildly irritating, mostly when you forget to take one with you, but all this melodramatic tosh about 'I can't breath', 'its too hot', 'my oxygen levels get affected' or 'it fogs my glasses up' is just childish and pathetic. Even worse is the folk shouting about the wearing of a mask 'infringes their civil liberties', 'takes away my freedom' or 'is the nanny state'. The States is the worst for this but you would think that England is going through a major feckin societal break down just because folk have to wear a mask in the shops. It really is surprising as I thought the Dunkirk and the Blitz spirit would just kick in and folk would get on with it regardless. Even more irritating is the blaming of poor gov communication or confusion, it isn't all that difficult really, if in doubt just wear a mask. The same people who complain about lack of guidance are the same ones complaining about the nanny state!

Just get the feckin mask on, stop complaining, stop whinging like a child just and carry on, it aint that difficult!

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:30 am**

dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:21 am
Just get the feckin mask on, stop complaining, stop whinging like a child just and carry on, it aint that difficult!

Here here.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:31 am**

As I said, I'll try a try out some different ones, wear it as required and maybe get used to it ( resume wearing contact lenses perhaps ) - but for me it won't be much different than for being in lockdown, still going out as little as necessary. If it does indeed move us more quickly towards "normality" then all very well but I don't know how we'll measure the effectiveness when there are still situations where wearing one isn't mandatory and some shops are saying they won't enforce it.

FWIW I wouldn't go to one of the supermarkets not enforcing it without a mask on.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:13 am**

I really need to do it but apparently dipping your glasses in soapy water and letting them dry naturally helps with the fogging up.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:19 am**

dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:21 am Sorry guys but I just don't get all this wimping about wearing a face covering/mask. I'm 60 year old asthmatic and have been wearing a mask for months. It is at worst mildly irritating, mostly when you forget to take one with you, but all this melodramatic tosh about 'I can't breath', 'its too hot', 'my oxygen levels get affected' or 'it fogs my glasses up' is just childish and pathetic. Even worse is the folk shouting about the wearing of a mask 'infringes their civil liberties', 'takes away my freedom' or 'is the nanny state'. The States is the worst for this but you would think that England is going through a major feckin societal break down just because folk have to wear a mask in the shops. It really is surprising as I thought the Dunkirk and the Blitz spirit would just kick in and folk would get on with it regardless. Even more irritating is the blaming of poor gov communication or confusion, it isn't all that difficult really, if in doubt just wear a mask. The same people who complain about lack of guidance are the same ones complaining about the nanny state!

Just get the feckin mask on, stop complaining, stop whinging like a child just and carry on, it aint that difficult!

Thats a much bigger rant than I was going to type.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:19 am**

Checked out https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52609777.

Found some elastic to make ear loops, used an old hankerchief and stapled it together to make a comfortable if rustic looking one. This'll work from leaving home to returning..

One practical point was that you shouldn't touch the mask except putting it on and off, the one I was using I kept having to readjust it so kind of negates the purpose of it.

Hope this is "Dunkirk Spirit" enough

NPR

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