NPR

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:51 pm

frodder wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:46 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:44 pm Jab everyone over 18. Keep kids at home 24/7 until it’s done.

Economy up and running ASAP, vulnerable safe, NHS secure, restaurants kid-free until June. Win-win.

Keeping kids at home 24 x 7 - interesting

I have heard they are our future and parents would do anything to give them the best start in life....

Correct and locking them up 24 x 7 proves that

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:25 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:46 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:17 pm

My wife went into Waitrose yesterday (John Lewis click and collect combined with the need for a bottle of cider for the gammon I'm cooking at the moment - it's furious about Lewis Hamilton - and some sundries) and there were people loading up on the booze, the thick end of 20 wine bottles on several trollies.

I know Waitrose customers are often retirees who are too refined to be alcoholics even though they plough through the drink like Prohibition is coming back but .

I'm a retiree and I do if they've got 25% off the really good stuff and stock up my wine store

Let the record show that the witness made the "drinky drinky" motion.

If we had NPR Boardies you would be my MVP, Hal

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:25 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:46 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:17 pm

My wife went into Waitrose yesterday (John Lewis click and collect combined with the need for a bottle of cider for the gammon I'm cooking at the moment - it's furious about Lewis Hamilton - and some sundries) and there were people loading up on the booze, the thick end of 20 wine bottles on several trollies.

I know Waitrose customers are often retirees who are too refined to be alcoholics even though they plough through the drink like Prohibition is coming back but .

I'm a retiree and I do if they've got 25% off the really good stuff and stock up my wine store

Let the record show that the witness made the "drinky drinky" motion.

Saint wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:15 pm Mrs Saint has pointed out they may be a childcare bubble. So possibly legal, even if extremely stupid.

In other news, 944,500 people received at least 1 dose of vaccine up to Dec 27th

Any news on those who have suffered adverse reactions. Would love to shove it in the face of the anti-vaxxers

Enzedder wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:34 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:15 pm Mrs Saint has pointed out they may be a childcare bubble. So possibly legal, even if extremely stupid.

In other news, 944,500 people received at least 1 dose of vaccine up to Dec 27th

Any news on those who have suffered adverse reactions. Would love to shove it in the face of the anti-vaxxers

I heard about 4 had temporary, minor allergic reactions that cleared up in about an hour. Literally safer than Pepsi.

Saint wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:21 pm

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:33 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:13 pm So what does low level protection look like? Only 50% chance you’ll catch Covid? What Tier is that exactly?

From what I have read, the vaccine provides >50% protection with a single dose however that's misleading as if effectively provides almost no protection for the first couple of weeks after vaccination. So, provided you can avoid catching it then, it's >80% effective and also reduces the severity if you do catch it.

Overall effects of just using a single dose, or increasing the time between 1st and 2nd doses hasn't been tested much and so isn't currently known.

Looks like jabbing everybody in the UK ASAP is the best strategy for the current circumstances.

Apparently, so far unpublished data from the AZ study that MHRA have access to shows that a larger gap between dose 1&2 produces a much higher level of efficacy. The reason that the data exists is partly down the the holds that went into place during the study, which forced a large percentage of participants to receive their second dose outside of planned period.

The Pfizer study though went exactly to plan. There is literally zero data on efficacy for Pfizer for receiving a second dose outside of the planned 21 day period.

Which is why anyone advocating for an extended period between doses for the Pfizer vaccine, to put it politely, is being premature.

What's the point of vaccines going thru a regulatory approval process, if individual Countries are then going to ignore the guidance of the Company that develops the vaccine ?

I get that this is an extraordinary time, but this stinks of Political interference in a scientific process.

Hong Kong wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:45 am from the “I’m a total piece of shit” file

Just read about that. Unbelievable.

I wonder what this individuals motive is?

Reading that article led to a report that Mary Ann (Dawn Wells) from Gilligan’s Island has succumbed to covid-related issues.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:24 pm What's the point of vaccines going thru a regulatory approval process, if individual Countries are then going to ignore the guidance of the Company that develops the vaccine ?

I get that this is an extraordinary time, but this stinks of Political interference in a scientific process.

Its public health officials (Doctors) who are making the call not politicians.

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:28 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:24 pm What's the point of vaccines going thru a regulatory approval process, if individual Countries are then going to ignore the guidance of the Company that develops the vaccine ?

I get that this is an extraordinary time, but this stinks of Political interference in a scientific process.

Its public health officials (Doctors) who are making the call not politicians.

The approval process also includes testing of effectiveness and safety of single doses. Yes, they are risking the fact that maybe the second dose won't work as well, and it may then take a third dose to effectively give the long term advantages as the 1st one wears off, but the question is what is best for the population at large in the immediate future with limited vaccine access.

The pfizer vaccine only appears to be 52% effective with a single dose, and 95% with a double dose, so in my mind it doesn't make sense to do a single dose with that one, but from what I've seen, I think the oxford is 60% with the first and 90% with the 2nd, and if the 2nd comes a longer time after the first, it's more effective (within the times tested). 60 -> 90, definitely should raise the question of leaving the 2nd one longer, and simply getting as many people vaccinated as possible.

Didn’t realise London went ahead with some fireworks etc last night, fucking hell

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:39 pm Didn’t realise London went ahead with some fireworks etc last night, fucking hell

No crowds though if thats your problem with it?

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:05 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:39 pm Didn’t realise London went ahead with some fireworks etc last night, fucking hell

No crowds though if thats your problem with it?

Apart from all the crowds? Photos everywhere of packed bridges etc

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:46 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:05 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:39 pm Didn’t realise London went ahead with some fireworks etc last night, fucking hell

No crowds though if thats your problem with it?

Apart from all the crowds? Photos everywhere of packed bridges etc

Anti-lockdown rallies, not fireworks revellers

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:03 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:46 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:05 pm

No crowds though if thats your problem with it?

Apart from all the crowds? Photos everywhere of packed bridges etc

Anti-lockdown rallies, not fireworks revellers

Yep these cretins

Cancellation = much less people out + money saved.

Not sure why they decided to press ahead

Out for a walk today with the young lad and missus. We crossed road to give the elderly man walking up the narrow-ish footpath a bit of space. The five year old went into a major sulk saying "I'm sick of this". Telling him that we couldn't visit granny and grandpa probably didn't help either.

We kind of assumed that he'd be fine with all the restrictions and not pay them any attention but it's sad to see the affect it has on him.

Has to be done though. Can pick up the pieces after.

Yep, the, 'because of the bugs' explanation for not being able to do anything to my lad is wearing a bit thin. He's pretty accepting through generally.

Primary schools kicking out again would be a massive pain in the arse again personally, but fair enough if it does need to be done in the coming months. Will just have to deal with it.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:50 pm Yep, the, 'because of the bugs' explanation for not being able to do anything to my lad is wearing a bit thin. He's pretty accepting through generally.

Primary schools kicking out again would be a massive pain in the arse again personally, but fair enough if it does need to be done in the coming months. Will just have to deal with it.

Yup, ours have started kicking back a bit now, particularly with nursery closing. As above, I just assumed they would think it was normal now but they are definitely tiring of the “because of the germs” stuff

Another day Another U turn.

Gavin Williamson really is terrible

frodder wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:46 pm Another day Another U turn.

Gavin Williamson really is terrible

Nothing showing on the Beeb - what are they turning on today?

frodder wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:46 pm Another day Another U turn.

Gavin Williamson really is terrible

He’s managed the impossible, and made Failing Grayling look almost competent.

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:43 pm Yep these cretins

kind of shame you scrapped those water cannons; they're made for scum like this.

Lobby wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:25 pm

frodder wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:46 pm Another day Another U turn.

Gavin Williamson really is terrible

He’s managed the impossible, and made Failing Grayling look almost competent.

Pick a Cabinet for total Brexit loyalty, get a Cabinet of cretins unable to handle anything more complex than a game of Connect 4.

salanya wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:10 pm

frodder wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:46 pm Another day Another U turn.

Gavin Williamson really is terrible

Nothing showing on the Beeb - what are they turning on today?

ALL Schools in London to delay start of term.

First government u turn of the year, eighteen hours in.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:27 pm
ALL Schools in London to delay start of term.

They got my text.

Hospitals in Kent have run out of ICU capacity, moving patients elsewhere if they can: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 81315.html

Not enough nurses either.

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:35 pm Hospitals in Kent have run out of ICU capacity, moving patients elsewhere if they can: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 81315.html

Not enough nurses either.

137% over capacity. Would we consider that “broken” ?

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:41 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:35 pm Hospitals in Kent have run out of ICU capacity, moving patients elsewhere if they can: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 81315.html

Not enough nurses either.

137% over capacity. Would we consider that “broken” ?

Close to being overwhelmed, perhaps? We can't really know until Bimbo puts forth on the subject.

UK are mixing and matching vaccines now: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/heal ... 93quRhYrlr

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:37 pm UK are mixing and matching vaccines now: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/heal ... 93quRhYrlr

Its a bit more nuanced that that:

According to Britain’s new guidance, “every effort should be made” to complete a dosing regimen with the same shot first used. But when “the same vaccine is not available, or if the first product received is unknown, it is reasonable to offer one dose of the locally available product” the second time around.


“This option is preferred if the individual is likely to be at immediate high risk or is considered unlikely to attend again,” the recommendation said. Because both vaccines target the spike protein of the coronavirus, “it is likely the second dose will help to boost the response to the first dose.”

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:48 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:37 pm UK are mixing and matching vaccines now: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/heal ... 93quRhYrlr

Its a bit more nuanced that that:

According to Britain’s new guidance, “every effort should be made” to complete a dosing regimen with the same shot first used. But when “the same vaccine is not available, or if the first product received is unknown, it is reasonable to offer one dose of the locally available product” the second time around.


“This option is preferred if the individual is likely to be at immediate high risk or is considered unlikely to attend again,” the recommendation said. Because both vaccines target the spike protein of the coronavirus, “it is likely the second dose will help to boost the response to the first dose.”

Still a bizarre decision though according to the quoted scientists. PHE or Hancock need to explain what science they're using to back up this assumption.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:52 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:48 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:37 pm UK are mixing and matching vaccines now: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/heal ... 93quRhYrlr

Its a bit more nuanced that that:

According to Britain’s new guidance, “every effort should be made” to complete a dosing regimen with the same shot first used. But when “the same vaccine is not available, or if the first product received is unknown, it is reasonable to offer one dose of the locally available product” the second time around.


“This option is preferred if the individual is likely to be at immediate high risk or is considered unlikely to attend again,” the recommendation said. Because both vaccines target the spike protein of the coronavirus, “it is likely the second dose will help to boost the response to the first dose.”

Still a bizarre decision though according to the quoted scientists. PHE or Hancock need to explain what science they're using to back up this assumption.

Yes it is. Nuanced or not, it smacks of poor planning if you are first dosing more that your actual, or even projected, availability of the same vaccine variant. Actually, it more than smacks of poor planning if this quote from the article is true "or if the manufacturer of the first shot isn’t known, another vaccine may be substituted, health officials said.", that is patently poor planning, or trotting out a poor excuse to cover shortfalls elsewhere.

Lock it down and wait it out until you can do the job properly rather than attempt to contrive a fix that has not been tested and is basically speculative. I don't know what the success:failure odd are, but if this strategy fails, it will effectively have wasted at least the efficacy of one of the doses.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:52 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:48 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:37 pm UK are mixing and matching vaccines now: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/heal ... 93quRhYrlr

Its a bit more nuanced that that:

According to Britain’s new guidance, “every effort should be made” to complete a dosing regimen with the same shot first used. But when “the same vaccine is not available, or if the first product received is unknown, it is reasonable to offer one dose of the locally available product” the second time around.


“This option is preferred if the individual is likely to be at immediate high risk or is considered unlikely to attend again,” the recommendation said. Because both vaccines target the spike protein of the coronavirus, “it is likely the second dose will help to boost the response to the first dose.”

Still a bizarre decision though according to the quoted scientists. PHE or Hancock need to explain what science they're using to back up this assumption.

It's actually the entire basis for the Russian vaccine.

Saint wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:22 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:52 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:48 pm

Its a bit more nuanced that that:

Still a bizarre decision though according to the quoted scientists. PHE or Hancock need to explain what science they're using to back up this assumption.

It's actually the entire basis for the Russian vaccine.

Is this good or bad? Doesn't seem we want to be copying Russia...