NPR

dkm57 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:47 pm FFS Glasgow - discipline moronic

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:08 pmGood BP win.

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:11 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:08 pmGood BP win.

It was. They looked good throughout without ever pulling away

dpedin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:41 pm Weegies were just awful and managed to throw away a game they were lucky to be leading up to the 80th minute and then manage to give away penalty after penalty to lose in 82nd minute. Just unprofessional. With the calibre of player they have they should be doing so much better. Horne was very very poor at 9 and the whole team suffered as a result. They missed Price who tends to manage the game very well for them.

Embra were actually very good tonight and but for a couple of unlucky moments that allowed Dragons in were in control most of the game. Given the team was a real mix of experienced, youngsters and some new signings they were very cohesive and played smart rugby throughout. Blair making a huge difference.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:10 pm After watching Glasgow shit the bed in the last few minutes, it was somewhat redeeming to see Edinburgh do the opposite and win the BP with the clock red.

Huge games from Crosbie, Bradbury and Hoyland.

Whisper it, but maybe this whole Kinghorn at 10 thing isn’t totally crazy…

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:09 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:10 pm After watching Glasgow shit the bed in the last few minutes, it was somewhat redeeming to see Edinburgh do the opposite and win the BP with the clock red.

Huge games from Crosbie, Bradbury and Hoyland.

Whisper it, but maybe this whole Kinghorn at 10 thing isn’t totally crazy…

Really? I thought that he looked like a fish out of water again- I didn’t see the whole match as I was cooking and in and out.

I have actually been thinking that with Bofelli (?) having such a good game suddenly Kinghorn is in a really difficult position as he can’t continue at 10 and he will potentially become number 2 at 15.

Just to reiterate, I hope not, but I do think he’s in danger of getting really squeezed

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:02 am Definitely a mixed bag, but given it was his 3rd (?) professional start at 10, it was promising. When he does something excellent, it is genuinely excellent. I felt yesterday his not so good moments weren’t horrendous. His passing is better than I thought, and his running game is unsurprisingly very good.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:02 am Definitely a mixed bag, but given it was his 3rd (?) professional start at 10, it was promising. When he does something excellent, it is genuinely excellent. I felt yesterday his not so good moments weren’t horrendous. His passing is better than I thought, and his running game is unsurprisingly very good.

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:44 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:02 am Definitely a mixed bag, but given it was his 3rd (?) professional start at 10, it was promising. When he does something excellent, it is genuinely excellent. I felt yesterday his not so good moments weren’t horrendous. His passing is better than I thought, and his running game is unsurprisingly very good.

Yes, the reports I’ve seen in the paper have said he had some really good moments - as I said, I was in and out of the match.

My issue is that he just doesn’t look natural there (I don’t mean in terms of height etc) and I’m not sure that is something that can be learnt at this stage. He receives the ball standing still, crabs over a bit then telegraphs what’s coming. The pass is invariably lovely but I don’t think he really interests the defence.

I’m saying all that, we all agree he is a top class player so let’s see how he develops and he is certainly not doing a terrible job as he learns

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:44 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:02 am Definitely a mixed bag, but given it was his 3rd (?) professional start at 10, it was promising. When he does something excellent, it is genuinely excellent. I felt yesterday his not so good moments weren’t horrendous. His passing is better than I thought, and his running game is unsurprisingly very good.

Yes, the reports I’ve seen in the paper have said he had some really good moments - as I said, I was in and out of the match.

My issue is that he just doesn’t look natural there (I don’t mean in terms of height etc) and I’m not sure that is something that can be learnt at this stage. He receives the ball standing still, crabs over a bit then telegraphs what’s coming. The pass is invariably lovely but I don’t think he really interests the defence.

I’m saying all that, we all agree he is a top class player so let’s see how he develops and he is certainly not doing a terrible job as he learns

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:33 am
I don't think Kinghorn is a top class player.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:38 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:33 am
I don't think Kinghorn is a top class player.

Hrmm, Mike Blair and Gregor Townsend seem to disagree with that.

You don't move someone who isn't top class to fly half.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:33 amI don't think Kinghorn is a top class player. I think he's pretty good but it's not great when Bofelli is an immediate improvement at 15, Kinghorn isn't much of a winger. And is now an experimental 10.

Saying that, I think he looks much better at 10 then you do. I think Edinburgh's dramatic upturn in attacking play is mostly Mike Blair driven but Kinghorn is making quote good decisions and a run kick pass threat.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:07 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:38 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:33 am
I don't think Kinghorn is a top class player.

Hrmm, Mike Blair and Gregor Townsend seem to disagree with that.

You don't move someone who isn't top class to fly half.

You move players who have the attributes to play 10 to 10. You don't move exclusively "top class" players to 10. If you do we've wasted Hogg's career at 15 not 10. Can't wait for Redpath to make the switch. How about moving Ali Price out one? He's top class. Shouldn't waste Matt Currie at 13 - he looks top class too so let's get him at 10 now and not waste any time.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:40 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:07 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:38 am


Hrmm, Mike Blair and Gregor Townsend seem to disagree with that.

You don't move someone who isn't top class to fly half.

You move players who have the attributes to play 10 to 10. You don't move exclusively "top class" players to 10. If you do we've wasted Hogg's career at 15 not 10. Can't wait for Redpath to make the switch. How about moving Ali Price out one? He's top class. Shouldn't waste Matt Currie at 13 - he looks top class too so let's get him at 10 now and not waste any time.

Both Blair and Townsend seem to think Kinghorn is good enough to play ten for Edinburgh and Scotland, not necessarily as first choice for Scotland, but the versatility will help the Scotland squad at the world cup, but who knows where this will lead?

Blair talked in the press about Kinghorn having that un-coachable X factor, being able to see things before other players do.

As for the attributes to play ten professionally and internationally in a top ten side, imo those attributes include the aforementioned vision, having a good kicking game from hand and from the ground, Kinghorn has that. They need pace, Toonie said Kinghorn was the quickest player in the Scotland squad.
They need a hard flat pass, Kinghorn has that, he makes mistakes with his passing a couple of times a game, but as has been said the weekend there was only his 3rd or 4th start at ten.
They need to be able to run a game, this is early doors, he looks more capable of it than I thought was possible, but he did play there at school, if anything this move will improve him immeasurably, he's admitted himself that he lost focus sometimes, he can't do that at ten. I read somewhere that he has that Johnnie Beattie thing about him, everything came far too easily to him, he never had to work or try very hard.

I thought Boffeli had a very good debut, Kinghorn has had even better performances for Edinburgh, this seems to get over looked because of a loss of form in a backline that was starved of possession and ideas for so long.
Blair's Edinburgh are a completely different team to Cockerill's, there were more back moves and cohesion on Saturday in that backline than we every saw in season after season with Cockers.

Going back to Kinghorn, at ten he looks to me like he has that thing that the very best do, he looks like he has plenty of time when he gets the ball.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:30 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:33 amI don't think Kinghorn is a top class player. I think he's pretty good but it's not great when Bofelli is an immediate improvement at 15, Kinghorn isn't much of a winger. And is now an experimental 10.

Saying that, I think he looks much better at 10 then you do. I think Edinburgh's dramatic upturn in attacking play is mostly Mike Blair driven but Kinghorn is making quote good decisions and a run kick pass threat.

When Kinghorn broke through it was clear he had all the weapons to be an absolutely top class player. Opposition teams were terrified of him, and supporters of rival teams envied us for having him. When he debuted in the Scotland team he looked to the manner born.

Then he lost his way in the 'I'm too good to be dropped' way that seems to bedevil good young Scots, and really was not putting the work in. Cockerill told him that he was not worth what he was being paid and he needed to sort himself out. He appears to making steps back towards what he once promised to be.

Let's not forget that Kinghorn was a 10 all the way till he was moved to 15 at U20. There were definite elements of 'put the best back in the team at 10', but whilst clearly at a lower level, to is where he learned his trade. Having said that, I am still not convinced he is a better 10 than 15, and the devastating runs he was making from 15 in the early days stick in my memory.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:30 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:33 amI don't think Kinghorn is a top class player. I think he's pretty good but it's not great when Bofelli is an immediate improvement at 15, Kinghorn isn't much of a winger. And is now an experimental 10.

Saying that, I think he looks much better at 10 then you do. I think Edinburgh's dramatic upturn in attacking play is mostly Mike Blair driven but Kinghorn is making quote good decisions and a run kick pass threat.

When Kinghorn broke through it was clear he had all the weapons to be an absolutely top class player. Opposition teams were terrified of him, and supporters of rival teams envied us for having him. When he debuted in the Scotland team he looked to the manner born.

Then he lost his way in the 'I'm too good to be dropped' way that seems to bedevil good young Scots, and really was not putting the work in. Cockerill told him that he was not worth what he was being paid and he needed to sort himself out. He appears to making steps back towards what he once promised to be.

Let's not forget that Kinghorn was a 10 all the way till he was moved to 15 at U20. There were definite elements of 'put the best back in the team at 10', but whilst clearly at a lower level, to is where he learned his trade. Having said that, I am still not convinced he is a better 10 than 15, and the devastating runs he was making from 15 in the early days stick in my memory.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:58 am
A long time ago now though and those runs are nowhere to be seen. Funnily enough his running at 10 is looking a bit like it could be the good old days.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:33 am
I don't think Kinghorn is a top class player. I think he's pretty good but it's not great when Bofelli is an immediate improvement at 15, Kinghorn isn't much of a winger. And is now an experimental 10.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:30 amLet's not forget that Kinghorn was a 10 all the way till he was moved to 15 at U20. There were definite elements of 'put the best back in the team at 10', but whilst clearly at a lower level, to is where he learned his trade. Having said that, I am still not convinced he is a better 10 than 15, and the devastating runs he was making from 15 in the early days stick in my memory.

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:17 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:33 am
I don't think Kinghorn is a top class player. I think he's pretty good but it's not great when Bofelli is an immediate improvement at 15, Kinghorn isn't much of a winger. And is now an experimental 10.

To be fair Boffelli is a 25 cap Puma, it isn't like he is a Jade Te Rufe type signing coming in, he is a class signing. He'll probably prove to be Edinburgh's best back 3 player. I don't think he has ever disgraced himself as a winger on international duty. IIRC Townsend considers him one of the better defensive wingers he has available to him (I am sure I read that earlier this year). He has fallen in the jack of all trades master of none position though.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:26 pm
I would be very surprised if Townsend said that. He's said Kinghorn is the quickest winger maybe.

"We know he’s one of our best defenders on the wing given his pace, the size he is and his reads, but it’ll take a little while to get used to defending at first receiver.

I see Blair having the ability to play anywhere from 10 backwards. You could see him step up at 13."

robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:37 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:26 pm
I would be very surprised if Townsend said that. He's said Kinghorn is the quickest winger maybe.

"We know he’s one of our best defenders on the wing given his pace, the size he is and his reads, but it’ll take a little while to get used to defending at first receiver.

I see Blair having the ability to play anywhere from 10 backwards. You could see him step up at 13."

https://www.theoffsideline.com/scotland ... necessity/

robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:37 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:26 pm
I would be very surprised if Townsend said that. He's said Kinghorn is the quickest winger maybe.

"We know he’s one of our best defenders on the wing given his pace, the size he is and his reads, but it’ll take a little while to get used to defending at first receiver.

I see Blair having the ability to play anywhere from 10 backwards. You could see him step up at 13."

https://www.theoffsideline.com/scotland ... necessity/

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:46 pm Now then, 13. That excites me!

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:26 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:17 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:33 am
I don't think Kinghorn is a top class player. I think he's pretty good but it's not great when Bofelli is an immediate improvement at 15, Kinghorn isn't much of a winger. And is now an experimental 10.

To be fair Boffelli is a 25 cap Puma, it isn't like he is a Jade Te Rufe type signing coming in, he is a class signing. He'll probably prove to be Edinburgh's best back 3 player. I don't think he has ever disgraced himself as a winger on international duty. IIRC Townsend considers him one of the better defensive wingers he has available to him (I am sure I read that earlier this year). He has fallen in the jack of all trades master of none position though.

Sure but Kinghorn also has 25 caps and is only two years younger. Not sure many would claim Kinghorn is as good as Bofelli at 15. And that is the problem with his development.

I would be very surprised if Townsend said that. He's said Kinghorn is the quickest winger maybe.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:09 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:46 pm Now then, 13. That excites me!

Speaking of which, I thought Matt Currie looked good again at the weekend, his distribution is probably the best Edinburgh have at 13 and his defence was good - 9 tackles 1 miss.

He's still only 20, I think you have to be 20 or under in the calendar year for the to qualify for the U20s 6N and Junior World Cup - though I'm open to correction on that, plus we were relegated to the lower tier tournament, we had a really good cohort but Covid stopped us getting back up

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:09 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:46 pm Now then, 13. That excites me!

Speaking of which, I thought Matt Currie looked good again at the weekend, his distribution is probably the best Edinburgh have at 13 and his defence was good - 9 tackles 1 miss.

He's still only 20, I think you have to be 20 or under in the calendar year for the to qualify for the U20s 6N and Junior World Cup - though I'm open to correction on that, plus we were relegated to the lower tier tournament, we had a really good cohort but Covid stopped us getting back up

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:12 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:26 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:17 pm

To be fair Boffelli is a 25 cap Puma, it isn't like he is a Jade Te Rufe type signing coming in, he is a class signing. He'll probably prove to be Edinburgh's best back 3 player. I don't think he has ever disgraced himself as a winger on international duty. IIRC Townsend considers him one of the better defensive wingers he has available to him (I am sure I read that earlier this year). He has fallen in the jack of all trades master of none position though.

Sure but Kinghorn also has 25 caps and is only two years younger. Not sure many would claim Kinghorn is as good as Bofelli at 15. And that is the problem with his development.

I would be very surprised if Townsend said that. He's said Kinghorn is the quickest winger maybe.

Yes, but all I was meaning is it isn't that much of a surprise that a current international full back comes in and is better than him. Especially with the disparity in coaching and environment they have been involved in. I am assuming Boffelli has had better coaching than Hodge and actually been in an enjoyable place to work.

If we take aside questions over player application, which is a factor too, I do wonder how much of this has been driven by poor coaching and recruitment in that Edinburgh backline over the Cockerill/Hodge era. If Van der Walt was above average I don't think we'd be having these conversations and Boffelli probably would never have been signed.