NPR

Twitter is absolute cancer. I think Nick Berry needs lots of support here and Rassie needs to have a good think about his actions. Hopefully he'll get some perspective and do the right thing. A step down from his high horse and apology would be a good start.

But Berry needs to understand, like any other high profile sportsman or celebrity, that this social media bs is part of the job now. Think of all the shit Roman Poite, Lewis Hamilton, Colin Kapernick, Serena Williams get hit with on Twitter. Every country has its issues with certain referees. There are ways to deal with online bullying and trolls. Nick Berry has the full backing of the establishment and I don't see that his reputation has taken a hit in anyone's eyes but a minority in SA maybe.

I don't know any South African rugby supporters who really buy into the ref paranoia. South Africans often come across quite badly on social media. We don't do subtle or clever banter very well. So a lot of the twitter action on this are just feeble attempts at humour and deflection.

And we have a healthy population of ignorant fucktards. Half our population are anti-vaxxers for example. We just seem to not be able to take things very seriously anymore.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:08 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:00 am The cunt is appealing. You know what happened now. You know the timeline. And he's still appealing. And with the full support of SARU. What on earth makes you think this will go away?

These things do. Look what Lance Armstrong did to cycling. That's a distant memory. Look what Hansie did to Cricket. That's a memory. Look what Dean Richards did to Harlequins. That's a memory. Hell, the bruises on Sevu Reece's wife hadn't even disappeared yet and he was playing for the All Blacks again.

Interesting that you compare this to Bloodgate. As a result of Bloodgate, Richards resigned from Harlequins and was banned from all rugby worldwide for 3 years. The physiotherapist was banned for 2 years, and the Doctor was reprimanded by the GMC. The Quins Chairman resigned and Quins were also fined £260,000, and the only reason they weren't kicked out of the Heineken cup was that the ERC board decided they were satisfied with the other punishments already meted out.

Compare that to Erasmus, SARU and quite alot of SAFA fans, who have refused to apologise for their appalling actions, are appealing the astonishingly lenient sanctions, are refusing to acknowledge they have done anything wrong and are still trying to blame the referee.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:10 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:58 am Is it though?

Every time an exceptional cyclist comes along, there's all sorts who start chucking drug allegations about.

Every time there's an unusual result in cricket, there's all sorts who start chucking betting allegations about.

I've seen Exeter fans chucking bloodgate back at Quins fans who question their racist branding

And Sevu Reece is a fucking arsehole and the AB's seem to not give a shit about that kind of thing from their players.

In all those instances, the people involved at the centre weren't the first an won't be the last. It's not like Rassie was the first DoR to push the line with the refs, although he took it to a new level. This time next year it will be something different

I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of what he's done, but let's be level-headed about the impact. This is not the end of rugby ffs.

The effect of this though is that now, when any South African coach questions a ref performance, a part of the rest of rugby will go 'just more rassie style BS' and ignore it. So in the long term it's harmful to SA rugby - but RE doesn't give a shit because he won't be involved.

Lobby wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:18 pm Interesting that you compare this to Bloodgate. As a result of Bloodgate, Richards resigned from Harlequins and was banned from all rugby worldwide for 3 years. The physiotherapist was banned for 2 years, and the Doctor was reprimanded by the GMC. The Quins Chairman resigned and Quins were also fined £260,000, and the only reason they weren't kicked out of the Heineken cup was that the ERC board decided they were satisfied with the other punishments already meted out.

Compare that to Erasmus, SARU and quite alot of SAFA fans, who have refused to apologise for their appalling actions, are appealing the astonishingly lenient sanctions, are refusing to acknowledge they have done anything wrong and are still trying to blame the referee.

It is an interesting comparison, but you seem more upset with South African fans. What have they got to do with it? The punishment has been handed down. If it's lenient, it's not South Africa's fault.

If you want to compare the two events an their subsequent reactions, what was the response of the Harlequins fans after bloodgate, especially in an age where Social Media was in its infancy?

I remember, because I was a season ticket holder at the time. Many of the fans I interacted with defended Richards and said that every other club in the premiership used similar tactics so they should also be investigated.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:23 pm The effect of this though is that now, when any South African coach questions a ref performance, a part of the rest of rugby will go 'just more rassie style BS' and ignore it. So in the long term it's harmful to SA rugby - but RE doesn't give a shit because he won't be involved.

Perhaps. But this is where World Rugby have missed an opportunity to address sub-standard refereeing. It was a poor performance from all match officials on that day - by their own admission. What has been done to address this? Make them completely untouchable from criticism.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:38 am

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:55 am
I’d actually like to see the refs boycotting officiating SA games until there is a full apology from Rassie and SA Rugby. Let’s see how the Bokke get on without any refs

If you were a ref would you want what's happening to Berry to happen to you?

Don't forget, Erasmus released this video after Berry responded in full to his request anyway.

No. Not sure what you are getting at here. I’m suggesting the refs boycott reffing SA as a group

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:28 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:23 pm The effect of this though is that now, when any South African coach questions a ref performance, a part of the rest of rugby will go 'just more rassie style BS' and ignore it. So in the long term it's harmful to SA rugby - but RE doesn't give a shit because he won't be involved.

Perhaps. But this is where World Rugby have missed an opportunity to address sub-standard refereeing. It was a poor performance from all match officials on that day - by their own admission. What has been done to address this? Make them completely untouchable from criticism.

That’s what they do in football? Despite an individual decision having a much greater bearing on the final result if an official from a club criticises the ref implicitly they are in deep doo-doo. Of course you get the fans going on about it on the forums but in the main they are seen as a bit extreme. This despite the fact that huge sums of money are involved and patience for results is very short.

Who judges sub standard refereeing? Is it the official refs panel? If not can you suggest better. And is it now an accepted fact that Berry is a poor ref? When do you think he should ref another international with SA involved?

And the right honourable Rassie, with backing from his official body is still saying I did nothing wrong.

PCPhil wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:39 pm Of course you get the fans going on about it on the forums but in the main they are seen as a bit extreme.

I concur! That's exactly what's happening with Rassie and everyone is losing their mind that South African fans are supporting him!

PCPhil wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:39 pm Who judges sub standard refereeing? Is it the official refs panel? If not can you suggest better. And is it now an accepted fact that Berry is a poor ref? When do you think he should ref another international with SA involved?

There are already systems in place for this, including coaches sending through videos like Rassie did. It should be more transparent, for a start. I don't think Berry is a poor ref, he's human and makes mistakes like all refs. But the entire team of match officials should be held accountable if they have a howler.

FalseBayFC wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:17 pm Twitter is absolute cancer. I think Nick Berry needs lots of support here and Rassie needs to have a good think about his actions. Hopefully he'll get some perspective and do the right thing. A step down from his high horse and apology would be a good start.

But Berry needs to understand, like any other high profile sportsman or celebrity, that this social media bs is part of the job now. Think of all the shit Roman Poite, Lewis Hamilton, Colin Kapernick, Serena Williams get hit with on Twitter. Every country has its issues with certain referees. There are ways to deal with online bullying and trolls. Nick Berry has the full backing of the establishment and I don't see that his reputation has taken a hit in anyone's eyes but a minority in SA maybe.

I don't know any South African rugby supporters who really buy into the ref paranoia. South Africans often come across quite badly on social media. We don't do subtle or clever banter very well. So a lot of the twitter action on this are just feeble attempts at humour and deflection.

And we have a healthy population of ignorant fucktards. Half our population are anti-vaxxers for example. We just seem to not be able to take things very seriously anymore.

Social media IS toxic, which is why people need to be careful where they aim the firehose. Publicly criticising Berry to that extent is just asking for trouble.

Lobby wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:18 pm

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:08 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:00 am The cunt is appealing. You know what happened now. You know the timeline. And he's still appealing. And with the full support of SARU. What on earth makes you think this will go away?

These things do. Look what Lance Armstrong did to cycling. That's a distant memory. Look what Hansie did to Cricket. That's a memory. Look what Dean Richards did to Harlequins. That's a memory. Hell, the bruises on Sevu Reece's wife hadn't even disappeared yet and he was playing for the All Blacks again.

Interesting that you compare this to Bloodgate. As a result of Bloodgate, Richards resigned from Harlequins and was banned from all rugby worldwide for 3 years. The physiotherapist was banned for 2 years, and the Doctor was reprimanded by the GMC. The Quins Chairman resigned and Quins were also fined £260,000, and the only reason they weren't kicked out of the Heineken cup was that the ERC board decided they were satisfied with the other punishments already meted out.

Compare that to Erasmus, SARU and quite alot of SAFA fans, who have refused to apologise for their appalling actions, are appealing the astonishingly lenient sanctions, are refusing to acknowledge they have done anything wrong and are still trying to blame the referee.

How about... Dylan Hartley? Calls Wayne Barnes a "fucking cheat" in the heat of the moment and cops an eleven week ban. Would it have been better if he'd had an email discussion with Barnes after the match, then released an hour long video criticisng every decision Barnes made and indicating conspiracy, along with shithouse tweets suggesting the same?

Or is it just because he swore?

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:28 pmPerhaps. But this is where World Rugby have missed an opportunity to address sub-standard refereeing. It was a poor performance from all match officials on that day - by their own admission. What has been done to address this? Make them completely untouchable from criticism.

I'll try to be polite here if you promise not to be a total fucking moron? Agreed.

What Erasmus did, is not a platform for anything constructive. It was a nuclear bomb. It unleashed carnage, visceral hate and huge division. That's all Erasmus has achieved. Nothing else. Nothing positive. Nothing worthy. In case you still haven't cottoned on, Erasmus is a pariah, a tumour, a fecal stain on rugby. I'm almost glad he's appealed as that means he can now be dealt with properly. He's absolute scum and I will support any move by referees (or teams) to boycott any match where he is involved.

I've changed my mind. The oke is a tosser. Check out his latest tweet.

If the disciplinary is under appeal then why is he missing the game tomorrow?

I was tempted to go to Twickenham just so I could call him a cunt.

PCPhil wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:39 pm

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:28 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:23 pm The effect of this though is that now, when any South African coach questions a ref performance, a part of the rest of rugby will go 'just more rassie style BS' and ignore it. So in the long term it's harmful to SA rugby - but RE doesn't give a shit because he won't be involved.

Perhaps. But this is where World Rugby have missed an opportunity to address sub-standard refereeing. It was a poor performance from all match officials on that day - by their own admission. What has been done to address this? Make them completely untouchable from criticism.

That’s what they do in football? Despite an individual decision having a much greater bearing on the final result if an official from a club criticises the ref implicitly they are in deep doo-doo. Of course you get the fans going on about it on the forums but in the main they are seen as a bit extreme. This despite the fact that huge sums of money are involved and patience for results is very short.

Who judges sub standard refereeing? Is it the official refs panel? If not can you suggest better. And is it now an accepted fact that Berry is a poor ref? When do you think he should ref another international with SA involved?

And the right honourable Rassie, with backing from his official body is still saying I did nothing wrong.

I think the difference between football officiating and rugby are chalk and cheese. The laws, in football are far simpler. In rugby, there are a myriad of infringements at every breakdown and, should an official have a particular preference for one side over the other, it is relatively easy to make decisions which favour that side without it being blatantly obvious. Did the tackler roll away fast enough? Was the tackled player holding on, or was he placing the ball? was the ball out of the scrum or was the defender offside? did the players in front of the kicker retreat far enough? What constitutes a retreat?

All of these offer the officials a degree of interpretative latitude, which they can, if they were so minded, use to help one of the teams over the other, while being easily defended in any post match appraisal.

I don't think Rassie was wrong in making his video because, if there is evidence of that sort of bias, then it needs to be examined. Where he crossed a line was in making his evidence public, which exposed Berry to humiliation and vitriol without affording him the chance to defend himself.

Unfortunately, World Rugby is run along highly autocratic lines, so I feel that Rassie was left with no other option.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:52 pm I'll try to be polite here if you promise not to be a total fucking moron? Agreed.

What Erasmus did, is not a platform for anything constructive. It was a nuclear bomb. It unleashed carnage, visceral hate and huge division. That's all Erasmus has achieved. Nothing else. Nothing positive. Nothing worthy. In case you still haven't cottoned on, Erasmus is a pariah, a tumour, a fecal stain on rugby. I'm almost glad he's appealed as that means he can now be dealt with properly. He's absolute scum and I will support any move by referees (or teams) to boycott any match where he is involved.

you're a loon

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:23 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:52 pm I'll try to be polite here if you promise not to be a total fucking moron? Agreed.

What Erasmus did, is not a platform for anything constructive. It was a nuclear bomb. It unleashed carnage, visceral hate and huge division. That's all Erasmus has achieved. Nothing else. Nothing positive. Nothing worthy. In case you still haven't cottoned on, Erasmus is a pariah, a tumour, a fecal stain on rugby. I'm almost glad he's appealed as that means he can now be dealt with properly. He's absolute scum and I will support any move by referees (or teams) to boycott any match where he is involved.

you're a loon

To be fair, I am hugely surprised you thought it would be at all appropriate for World Rugby to "address sub-standard refereeing" off the back of this. Erasmus basically ensured that wouldn't happen.

I also think that it's his own narrative that it was a particularly poor display.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:26 pm To be fair, I am hugely surprised you thought it would be at all appropriate for World Rugby to "address sub-standard refereeing" off the back of this. Erasmus basically ensured that wouldn't happen.

I also think that it's his own narrative that it was a particularly poor display.

I think there was an opportunity before the report was released. That ship has sailed.

And yes, I am disappointed in the facts that have transpired from this report. If the timings are correct as shown.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:31 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:26 pm To be fair, I am hugely surprised you thought it would be at all appropriate for World Rugby to "address sub-standard refereeing" off the back of this. Erasmus basically ensured that wouldn't happen.

I also think that it's his own narrative that it was a particularly poor display.

I think there was an opportunity before the report was released. That ship has sailed.

And yes, I am disappointed in the facts that have transpired from this report. If the timings are correct as shown.

WR's report or Rassie's? Because responding to his unhinged behaviour on Twitter and in that video in that way would just encourage him and other amoral conspiratorial aresholes to keep doing things like this.

Rugby refereeing is fucking hard and while I like to whinge about decisions going against my team as much as anyone, I'm not going to pretend it's something that's easily improved without an overhaul of the laws of the game. Doing anything about refereeing because some psycho DoR went nuts after losing a game is a great way to permanently damage the sport AND the relationship WR has with refs.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:20 pm
I don't think Rassie was wrong in making his video because, if there is evidence of that sort of bias, then it needs to be examined. Where he crossed a line was in making his evidence public, which exposed Berry to humiliation and vitriol without affording him the chance to defend himself.

Unfortunately, World Rugby is run along highly autocratic lines, so I feel that Rassie was left with no other option.

FFS

Have you just woken up from a coma? Have read any of the timeline and what happened?

No other option. Fuck right off.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:38 pm Rugby refereeing is fucking hard and while I like to whinge about decisions going against my team as much as anyone, I'm not going to pretend it's something that's easily improved without an overhaul of the laws of the game. Doing anything about refereeing because some psycho DoR went nuts after losing a game is a great way to permanently damage the sport AND the relationship WR has with refs.

Why is this conversation all about extremes? Referring does not need a complete overhaul, but some improvements and like I suggested some transparency. I for one would like to see less of the video ref and more from the assistant referees.

Doing nothing is always the easy option, but it's not always the right option.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:49 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:38 pm Rugby refereeing is fucking hard and while I like to whinge about decisions going against my team as much as anyone, I'm not going to pretend it's something that's easily improved without an overhaul of the laws of the game. Doing anything about refereeing because some psycho DoR went nuts after losing a game is a great way to permanently damage the sport AND the relationship WR has with refs.

Why is this conversation all about extremes? Referring does not need a complete overhaul, but some improvements and like I suggested some transparency. I for one would like to see less of the video ref and more from the assistant referees.

Doing nothing is always the easy option, but it's not always the right option.

Well, you're talking about improving refereeing across the board, right? I don't believe that's done without changes to the laws. There's a reason why we *constantly* have the same issues, and it's not because we have a bad crop of refs.

We're already seeing less of the video ref as a response to last season's insanity.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:49 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:38 pm Rugby refereeing is fucking hard and while I like to whinge about decisions going against my team as much as anyone, I'm not going to pretend it's something that's easily improved without an overhaul of the laws of the game. Doing anything about refereeing because some psycho DoR went nuts after losing a game is a great way to permanently damage the sport AND the relationship WR has with refs.

Why is this conversation all about extremes? Referring does not need a complete overhaul, but some improvements and like I suggested some transparency. I for one would like to see less of the video ref and more from the assistant referees.

Doing nothing is always the easy option, but it's not always the right option.

So you want to do away with the official that actually has time and angles to make sure the decision is correct. And rely more on the ones that have to watch out for dozens of potential offences, all missable by small blocked angles, whilst the game is happening live...

And you think this will help us reach more correct decisions?

What’s Toony said? He seems to be suddenly the new hate figure for the thickos

Edit: oh, video of Rassie abusing a Scotland player on the sidelines. What a guy

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:52 pm Well, you're talking about improving refereeing across the board, right? I don't believe that's done without changes to the laws. There's a reason why we *constantly* have the same issues, and it's not because we have a bad crop of refs.

We're already seeing less of the video ref as a response to last season's insanity.

Yea fair point. But it's still going to be rugby, isn't it? I still see the laws around head contact getting stricter in coming years.

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:53 pm So you want to do away with the official that actually has time and angles to make sure the decision is correct. And rely more on the ones that have to watch out for dozens of potential offences, all missable by small blocked angles, whilst the game is happening live...

And you think this will help us reach more correct decisions?

FFS, like I said, why is everything about extremes.

I said less of the TMO, not do away with.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:57 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:53 pm So you want to do away with the official that actually has time and angles to make sure the decision is correct. And rely more on the ones that have to watch out for dozens of potential offences, all missable by small blocked angles, whilst the game is happening live...

And you think this will help us reach more correct decisions?

FFS, like I said, why is everything about extremes.

I said less of the TMO, not do away with.

Regardless, you're reducing the input of the one official that's most likely to get a decision correct. How does that tie in with improving things?

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:55 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:52 pm Well, you're talking about improving refereeing across the board, right? I don't believe that's done without changes to the laws. There's a reason why we *constantly* have the same issues, and it's not because we have a bad crop of refs.

We're already seeing less of the video ref as a response to last season's insanity.

Yea fair point. But it's still going to be rugby, isn't it? I still see the laws around head contact getting stricter in coming years.

Sure - in case it's not clear, I'm in favour of overhauling the laws to make things clearer and easier and safer. But doing so in response to Rassie losing his shit over a not particularly poor reffing display is the very worst thing they could have done.

WR are constantly tweaking and "improving" things, so it's not like they are doing nothing. The only response to this sorry saga should be to kick Rassie's arse hard enough to ensure this shit doesn't happen again, though.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:57 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:53 pm So you want to do away with the official that actually has time and angles to make sure the decision is correct. And rely more on the ones that have to watch out for dozens of potential offences, all missable by small blocked angles, whilst the game is happening live...

And you think this will help us reach more correct decisions?

FFS, like I said, why is everything about extremes.

I said less of the TMO, not do away with.

What really works is that the referees have respect from the players and their coaches. Part of that respect is remembering that referees are just like the players and the coaches in that they can get things wrong and make mistakes. Referees need help to have good games by having players and coaches who listen to them when he tells them what he wants from them. Get this right and the other stuff, the rugby bit, that gets much easier and more fun to play and watch.

It's really that simple.

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:00 pm Regardless, you're reducing the input of the one official that's most likely to get a decision correct. How does that tie in with improving things?

I think that's debatable. I'd be for empowering the assistant referees. I think there must also be a way of using technology more, especially for forward passes.

I remember a few years back there was a trial where they had two referees on the field. That seemed pretty progressive to me.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:01 pm Sure - in case it's not clear, I'm in favour of overhauling the laws to make things clearer and easier and safer. But doing so in response to Rassie losing his shit over a not particularly poor reffing display is the very worst thing they could have done.

WR are constantly tweaking and "improving" things, so it's not like they are doing nothing. The only response to this sorry saga should be to kick Rassie's arse hard enough to ensure this shit doesn't happen again, though.

But by their own admission, they got a huge amount of the calls wrong in that game, we can't ignore that!

Just because they're grumpy with Rassie, doesn't mean they can sweep the issue under the carpet and make the refs untouchable.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:05 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:00 pm Regardless, you're reducing the input of the one official that's most likely to get a decision correct. How does that tie in with improving things?

I think that's debatable. I'd be for empowering the assistant referees. I think there must also be a way of using technology more, especially for forward passes.

I remember a few years back there was a trial where they had two referees on the field. That seemed pretty progressive to me.

Forward passes strike me as being incredibly hard to do with technology.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:07 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:01 pm Sure - in case it's not clear, I'm in favour of overhauling the laws to make things clearer and easier and safer. But doing so in response to Rassie losing his shit over a not particularly poor reffing display is the very worst thing they could have done.

WR are constantly tweaking and "improving" things, so it's not like they are doing nothing. The only response to this sorry saga should be to kick Rassie's arse hard enough to ensure this shit doesn't happen again, though.

But by their own admission, they got a huge amount of the calls wrong in that game, we can't ignore that!

Just because they're grumpy with Rassie, doesn't mean they can sweep the issue under the carpet and make the refs untouchable.

What's your definition of a huge amount? Ten? Out of literally hundreds of decisions they have to make in every game?

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:03 pm What really works is that the referees have respect from the players and their coaches. Part of that respect is remembering that referees are just like the players and the coaches in that they can get things wrong and make mistakes. Referees need help to have good games by having players and coaches who listen to them when he tells them what he wants from them. Get this right and the other stuff, the rugby bit, that gets much easier and more fun to play and watch.

It's really that simple.

I completely agree.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:07 pm

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:05 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:00 pm Regardless, you're reducing the input of the one official that's most likely to get a decision correct. How does that tie in with improving things?

I think that's debatable. I'd be for empowering the assistant referees. I think there must also be a way of using technology more, especially for forward passes.

I remember a few years back there was a trial where they had two referees on the field. That seemed pretty progressive to me.

Forward passes strike me as being incredibly hard to do with technology.

Pretty hard (impossible?) to do with technology too, I'd expect.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:07 pm What's your definition of a huge amount? Ten? Out of literally hundreds of decisions they have to make in every game?

Case by case basis. Considering Berry agreed with 17 of the 36 clips prepared by Rassie, that for me is quite shocking.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:14 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:07 pm What's your definition of a huge amount? Ten? Out of literally hundreds of decisions they have to make in every game?

Case by case basis. Considering Berry agreed with 17 of the 36 clips prepared by Rassie, that for me is quite shocking.

I honestly think you could look at most games with that level of scrutiny and pick out that many errors. It's just not something we see presented like this. I really don't think this was an outlier of a bad game from the ref.

Hell, there will be errors in that game that went in favour of SA, so you can add them in too.

Refereeing rugby is incredibly difficult. Hence 'referee is the sole judge of fact and of Law during a match' etc

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:16 pm I honestly think you could look at most games with that level of scrutiny and pick out that many errors. It's just not something we see presented like this. I really don't think this was an outlier of a bad game from the ref.

Hell, there will be errors in that game that went in favour of SA, so you can add them in too.

Refereeing rugby is incredibly difficult. Hence 'the ref is the sole...'

Coaches do look at most games with this level of scrutiny, and make videos about it too. The only difference is that Rassie went public with it.

Of course there were decisions that went against the Lions in that game. I'm sure Gatland has similar feedback methodologies for refs too.

I'm sorry but if there is a problem, then we try and fix it. Accepting something is shit when there is so much riding on it doesn't fly with me.

Anyway, I'm tapping out for the weekend.

I hope it's a cracking game on Saturday and may the best team win

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:19 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:16 pm I honestly think you could look at most games with that level of scrutiny and pick out that many errors. It's just not something we see presented like this. I really don't think this was an outlier of a bad game from the ref.

Hell, there will be errors in that game that went in favour of SA, so you can add them in too.

Refereeing rugby is incredibly difficult. Hence 'the ref is the sole...'

Coaches do look at most games with this level of scrutiny, and make videos about it too. The only difference is that Rassie went public with it.

Of course there were decisions that went against the Lions in that game. I'm sure Gatland has similar feedback methodologies for refs too.

I'm sorry but if there is a problem, then we try and fix it. Accepting something is shit when there is so much riding on it doesn't fly with me.

Sure, I meant they aren't seen in the public domain.

I don't think anyone excepts that it is shit. Without a huge simplification of the laws to the point where it's Rugby League, there will always be an error threshold. I'm pretty sure behind the scenes refs are continuously4 reviewed and honest dialogue about errors and interpretations is ongoing between refs and coaches. I really don't think there is a huge amount of inertia here. It's just that this stuff isn't usually played out on social media.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:21 pm Anyway, I'm tapping out for the weekend.

I hope it's a cracking game on Saturday and may the best team win

I'm at a kids birthday party....

Perfect