NPR

Hamas wants a propaganda victory - Regev

More from Mark Regev, senior adviser to the Israeli prime minister, who's been speaking to BBC News about the blast at the hospital in Gaza.

"I urge you to be cautious. There are very serious indications that it’s not us."

"Hamas wants to have a propaganda victory, saying Israel has killed innocent civilians."

"There’s no evidence to support that claim," Regev said.

The BBC is working to verify what happened at the hospital on Tuesday evening.

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:57 pm I give up. It's like talking to the wall. A stupid wall

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:52 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:47 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:28 pm Was it ever established if the beheaded babies story was factual?

Not sure about babies, but I believe I can confirm at the very least toddlers, though I wish I couldn't, babies were definitely killed. Can also tell you that the female sentries that were keeping lookout for some of the kibbutzes had their eyes plucked out of their skulls before being murdered. Burning tyres were rolled into houses to drive people out so they could be shot (or remain in and die of smoke/burns). Plenty of rapes too before murders.

Yes they were killed and mutilated but were there heads removed. That's imortant here Raggs

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:15 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:08 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:52 pm
Yes they were killed and mutilated but were there heads removed. That's imortant here Raggs

Well it's important because you appear to be holding the Israeli government to a lower standard of honesty than Hamas.

You are dying on the wrong hill here

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:00 pm Lots of different videos floating around.

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:52 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:47 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:28 pm Was it ever established if the beheaded babies story was factual?

Not sure about babies, but I believe I can confirm at the very least toddlers, though I wish I couldn't, babies were definitely killed. Can also tell you that the female sentries that were keeping lookout for some of the kibbutzes had their eyes plucked out of their skulls before being murdered. Burning tyres were rolled into houses to drive people out so they could be shot (or remain in and die of smoke/burns). Plenty of rapes too before murders.

Yes they were killed and mutilated but were there heads removed. That's imortant here Raggs

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:22 pm

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:17 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:15 pm

You are dying on the wrong hill here

Not at all... like a few others, your posting on the topic comes over as emotional and unbalanced.

Whats that meant to mean. It's just garbled nonsense and in no way connected to the argument Fester and I are having. Stick your oar in elsewhere and with a bit more thought

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:15 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:08 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:52 pm
Yes they were killed and mutilated but were there heads removed. That's imortant here Raggs

Well it's important because you appear to be holding the Israeli government to a lower standard of honesty than Hamas.

You are dying on the wrong hill here

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:17 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:00 pm Lots of different videos floating around.

How come all of your sources are from really a right wing stand point?

Not only on this but on other topics? There is no seeking balance at all.

I've refrained from posting on this thread bar the pointing out the wing nut posts, this is perilously close.

You've got to check your sources and look to what the motivation might be behind them. Your source is from the Right Wing of the government in that country and he was an outspoken critic and opposer of the Disengagement Plan in Gaza.

The issues in the Middle East are extremely complicated but reduction of everything that opposes your point of view to "something something Lefty" is facile in the extreme.

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:42 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:17 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:00 pm Lots of different videos floating around.

How come all of your sources are from really a right wing stand point?

Not only on this but on other topics? There is no seeking balance at all.

I've refrained from posting on this thread bar the pointing out the wing nut posts, this is perilously close.

You've got to check your sources and look to what the motivation might be behind them. Your source is from the Right Wing of the government in that country and he was an outspoken critic and opposer of the Disengagement Plan in Gaza.

The issues in the Middle East are extremely complicated but reduction of everything that opposes your point of view to "something something Lefty" is facile in the extreme.

It came about simply because there are claims of videos captured by Israeli forces which show the explosion was not from Israel.

Of bloody course they are going to come from that side of the equation.

Stop chipping in with your self superiority moderation.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:36 pm Israel: you guys might want to evacuate hospitals, we might bomb them.

Hospital is bombed.

Israel: wasn't us.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/15/worl ... -gaza.html

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:36 pm Israel: you guys might want to evacuate hospitals, we might bomb them.

Hospital is bombed.

Israel: wasn't us.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/15/worl ... -gaza.html

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:14 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:00 pm

I often find people who destroy a hospital and kill hundreds admit to it readily.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:51 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:36 pm Israel: you guys might want to evacuate hospitals, we might bomb them.

Hospital is bombed.

Israel: wasn't us.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/15/worl ... -gaza.html

To what end would Israel purposefully bomb a hospital it knew to be in use? There is absolutely no logical operational reason for them to do that. The evacuation order was likely in advance of a ground invasion to clear the ground (albeit impossibly impractical for the hospitals themselves)

Could they have bombed it in error? Sure, and the result is the same ultimately. Potentially involving criminal recklessness.

That said, there's ordinance flying about from both sides here, so whilst clearly more fingers will be pointed at Israel it's not a given.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 6:42 am

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:51 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:36 pm Israel: you guys might want to evacuate hospitals, we might bomb them.

Hospital is bombed.

Israel: wasn't us.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/15/worl ... -gaza.html

To what end would Israel purposefully bomb a hospital it knew to be in use? There is absolutely no logical operational reason for them to do that. The evacuation order was likely in advance of a ground invasion to clear the ground (albeit impossibly impractical for the hospitals themselves)

Could they have bombed it in error? Sure, and the result is the same ultimately. Potentially involving criminal recklessness.

That said, there's ordinance flying about from both sides here, so whilst clearly more fingers will be pointed at Israel it's not a given.

Yeah it's been a stated aim to use weapons for damage not accuracy. When you're bombing cities for damage you're targeting civilians really.

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:42 pm

It came about simply because there are claims of videos captured by Israeli forces which show the explosion was not from Israel.

Of bloody course they are going to come from that side of the equation.

Stop chipping in with your self superiority moderation.

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:50 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:22 pm Do you seriously have no issue with them avoiding calling Hamas terrorists.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:55 am https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical

Suggest just going through that account.

Not only does it look very likely to have been a rocket, not a bomb, but it looks like it was the car park that was hit, and the hospital is seemingly intact, and the likelyhood of the number of deaths claimed by The Gazan Health ministry (or more suitably named, the Hamas led Gazan Health Authority) seems quite unlikely.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:56 am John Simpson, BBC World Affairs Editor

Government ministers, newspaper columnists, ordinary people - they're all asking why the BBC doesn't say the Hamas gunmen who carried out appalling atrocities in southern Israel are terrorists.
The answer goes right back to the BBC's founding principles.

Terrorism is a loaded word, which people use about an outfit they disapprove of morally. It's simply not the BBC's job to tell people who to support and who to condemn - who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.
We regularly point out that the British and other governments have condemned Hamas as a terrorist organisation, but that's their business. We also run interviews with guests and quote contributors who describe Hamas as terrorists.

The key point is that we don't say it in our voice. Our business is to present our audiences with the facts, and let them make up their own minds.
As it happens, of course, many of the people who've attacked us for not using the word terrorist have seen our pictures, heard our audio or read our stories, and made up their minds on the basis of our reporting, so it's not as though we're hiding the truth in any way - far from it.
Any reasonable person would be appalled by the kind of thing we've seen. It's perfectly reasonable to call the incidents that have occurred "atrocities", because that's exactly what they are.
No-one can possibly defend the murder of civilians, especially children and even babies - nor attacks on innocent, peace-loving people who are attending a music festival.

During the 50 years I've been reporting on events in the Middle East, I've seen for myself the aftermath of attacks like this one in Israel, and I've also seen the aftermath of Israeli bomb and artillery attacks on civilian targets in Lebanon and Gaza. The horror of things like that stay in your mind forever.
But this doesn't mean that we should start saying that the organisation whose supporters have carried them out is a terrorist organisation, because that would mean we were abandoning our duty to stay objective.
And it's always been like this in the BBC. During World War Two, BBC broadcasters were expressly told not to call the Nazis evil or wicked, even though we could and did call them "the enemy".
"Above all," said a BBC document about all this, "there must be no room for ranting". Our tone had to be calm and collected.

It was hard to keep that principle going when the IRA was bombing Britain and killing innocent civilians, but we did. There was huge pressure from the government of Margaret Thatcher on the BBC, and on individual reporters like me about this - especially after the Brighton bombing, where she just escaped death and so many other innocent people were killed and injured.
But we held the line. And we still do, to this day.

We don't take sides. We don't use loaded words like "evil" or "cowardly". We don't talk about "terrorists". And we're not the only ones to follow this line. Some of the world's most respected news organisations have exactly the same policy.
But the BBC gets particular attention, partly because we've got strong critics in politics and in the press, and partly because we're rightly held to an especially high standard. But part of keeping to that high standard is to be as objective as it's possible to be.
That's why people in Britain and right round the world, in huge numbers, watch, read and listen to what we say, every single day.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:55 am https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical

Suggest just going through that account.

Not only does it look very likely to have been a rocket, not a bomb, but it looks like it was the car park that was hit, and the hospital is seemingly intact, and the likelyhood of the number of deaths claimed by The Gazan Health ministry (or more suitably named, the Hamas led Gazan Health Authority) seems quite unlikely.

Calculon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:54 am
Maybe some posters on here got a bit too excited

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:01 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:55 am https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical

Suggest just going through that account.

Not only does it look very likely to have been a rocket, not a bomb, but it looks like it was the car park that was hit, and the hospital is seemingly intact, and the likelyhood of the number of deaths claimed by The Gazan Health ministry (or more suitably named, the Hamas led Gazan Health Authority) seems quite unlikely.

I'm not commenting either way, as I don't know. But are the rockets powerful enough to do as much damage as is being claimed?

Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:12 am Oops

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:21 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:12 am Oops

I know you think you're ont he trail of a hot take here schnouser but you do understand the whole 'convicted' thing, right?

Terrorism is a loaded word, which people use about an outfit they disapprove of morally. It's simply not the BBC's job to tell people who to support and who to condemn - who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.
We regularly point out that the British and other governments have condemned Hamas as a terrorist organisation, but that's their business. We also run interviews with guests and quote contributors who describe Hamas as terrorists.

The key point is that we don't say it in our voice. Our business is to present our audiences with the facts, and let them make up their own minds.
As it happens, of course, many of the people who've attacked us for not using the word terrorist have seen our pictures, heard our audio or read our stories, and made up their minds on the basis of our reporting, so it's not as though we're hiding the truth in any way - far from it.