2025 Springbokke

[Sards]

I sometimes listen to Keo's show. Do not think less of me for it.

Does anyone else wonder if Zels is onto something, he's the only South African out there critical of the Boks really. In his view Tony Brown is making the Boks worse and diluting a winning formula by making players do things they're less good at. Zels is a bit of a loony if you look at his Twitter feed (Keo mocks him for being a "conspiracy nut").

I wonder if there could be something in what he's saying though, it's just a fact these wins were close, but one side looked like they put everything they had on the park whilst the other side didn't play at their best then turned up at the end to win. On the other hand this is the direction World Rugby want to go (a lot of law changes target the way the Boks prefer to play), it's probably wiser and easier to move in the same direction.

Did you see post match how everyone went to congratulate Tony Brown.....including Rassie

Theres more to it than Keo's people think.......and others

[Sandstorm]

If Tonyball (puke) = drop the pass then I’m not a fan.

[LoveOfTheGame]

I sometimes listen to Keo's show. Do not think less of me for it.

Does anyone else wonder if Zels is onto something, he's the only South African out there critical of the Boks really. In his view Tony Brown is making the Boks worse and diluting a winning formula by making players do things they're less good at. Zels is a bit of a loony if you look at his Twitter feed (Keo mocks him for being a "conspiracy nut").

I wonder if there could be something in what he's saying though, it's just a fact these wins were close, but one side looked like they put everything they had on the park whilst the other side didn't play at their best then turned up at the end to win. On the other hand this is the direction World Rugby want to go (a lot of law changes target the way the Boks prefer to play), it's probably wiser and easier to move in the same direction.

With the best will in the world I cannot get myself to watch anything from Keo. The fact that you can, tells me a lot about you oxman. For shame With regard to your question, it will take time for the players to adjust to the new game plan. I think it is a massive slight on the boks to think they do not have the skill or ability to play with ball in hand. Most of them do if you think about it. All the players in Japan will be used to playing an expansive style of play, a lot of the URC teams like to play running rugby as well. I think what Brown is doing is helping them identify space and trying to instil confidence in them to go for it. Obviously they have not been anywhere accurate enough yet, in part due to the defences at test rugby being a huge step up.

Rassie plans far ahead. We can always revert back to our traditional game plan (and have done so recently), but the Boks want to and need to continuously evolve. They will need to find the balance between having a go and knowing when not try 50/50 passes/offloads. It will come, I have faith in this management team and all the players.

[Blake]

Sure is nice to have a benefactor that can just bail Kolisi out of his R17 million contract like that.

I know we've got a bit of cash lying around, but I can't quite figure out how we afford him. Especially with some of our recent signings like AE, Jason Jenkins, Vincent Koch.

Well, my understanding is that Vincent Mai bought out Syia's contract with his own money so it's not going to be on the Sharks' books, but I have no idea what the terms are or what Syia committed to in return...if anything. He has close ties to Syia as he also went to Grey PE and Siya was also a beneficiary of the bursary fund he set up. So maybe it was just a goodwill thing with no string attached. Who knows.

Kolisi thrives on the emotional energy of the Boks. Perhaps that's why he struggled at Racing, because of the immediate drop-off from the World Cup.

I also feel this was probably it. Playing for the Boks gives him purpose. Same thing if it's for the Stormers or Sharks. He knows and understands the players and feeds off of their energy. But when you are playing in France, surrounded by a bunch of fellow mercenaries, I don't think it had the same emotional impact to get him fired up.

[Blake]

I sometimes listen to Keo's show. Do not think less of me for it.

I do and and you deserve it.

Does anyone else wonder if Zels is onto something, he's the only South African out there critical of the Boks really. In his view Tony Brown is making the Boks worse and diluting a winning formula by making players do things they're less good at. Zels is a bit of a loony if you look at his Twitter feed (Keo mocks him for being a "conspiracy nut").

I wonder if there could be something in what he's saying though, it's just a fact these wins were close, but one side looked like they put everything they had on the park whilst the other side didn't play at their best then turned up at the end to win. On the other hand this is the direction World Rugby want to go (a lot of law changes target the way the Boks prefer to play), it's probably wiser and easier to move in the same direction.

I haven't watched the video (and won't) but the thought has crossed my mind. I get why we are trying to evolve.
The 2019 play-style was a band-aid. A quick-fix simple style to make the Boks competitive for the World Cup within 18 months. Winning the thing was an unexpected surprise.
By 2023 it had evolved a little bit, but it had become stale and predictable. It was still effective and obviously got us another title, but 3x 1-point victories in a row kind of tells a story on its own.
We need something...extra. Something that gives Rassie 2, 3 or even 4 gameplans where he can pick two on for a specific match and prep for those. Overload the opposition coaches with analysis and prep work, not knowing which 2 of the 4 gameplans to prepare for in the week leading to the test. And if they guessed 1 correct, switch to the other one. A lot of it is backroom chess at a level I think few fans really appreciate.

Adding an expansive game to our quiver is important. It's what the fans want, it's what World Rugby wants, and it's probably going to be useful on the fast Aussie pitches in 2027, but it's very difficult to execute and our 3 biggest rivals NZ, Ireland and France all excel at it. It's going to take time for the boys to regain the attacking instincts, skills, and muscle memory that has atrophied since their schoolboy days. It's maybe why the younger players like Sacha and Fassi have slotted in so seamlessly in the play style?

From all the interviews I've seen, the players seem to enjoy the new challenge and freedom they've been given, but then again they are all media trained and that's what they are supposed to say when a mic gets put in their face. We'll have to wait for their books in a couple of years to get the true story I guess.

[Sandstorm]

Adding an expansive game to our quiver is important. It's what the fans want, it's what World Rugby wants, and it's probably going to be useful on the fast Aussie pitches in 2027, but it's very difficult to execute and our 3 biggest rivals NZ, Ireland and France all excel at it. It's going to take time for the boys to regain the attacking instincts, skills, and muscle memory that has atrophied since their schoolboy days. It's maybe why the younger players like Sacha and Fassi have slotted in so seamlessly in the play style?

But then why did we drop Libbok???

[_Os_]

With the best will in the world I cannot get myself to watch anything from Keo. The fact that you can, tells me a lot about you oxman. For shame

I'm above such things, I'm too big to fail. I'm also beyond such things, outside that circle not a Cape type. I am above and beyond it.

Keo is strong on the recent history of the Boks, has excellent recall of matches and scores. Tabloid style, which makes it easier to listen to. He's close to your Stomps, Dobson pops up a lot around Keo events. Schalk Burger is our best analyst now, problem is the podcasts/youtube shows he's on are a boring listen sometimes, basically only listening for the Professor Scalla parts. Enjoyed a recent one with Professor Scalla when he talked about the Du Plessis fight, his eyes glazed over and he said something like "I would go medieval, claw the eyes, bite them".

With regard to your question, it will take time for the players to adjust to the new game plan. I think it is a massive slight on the boks to think they do not have the skill or ability to play with ball in hand. Most of them do if you think about it. All the players in Japan will be used to playing an expansive style of play, a lot of the URC teams like to play running rugby as well. I think what Brown is doing is helping them identify space and trying to instil confidence in them to go for it. Obviously they have not been anywhere accurate enough yet, in part due to the defences at test rugby being a huge step up.

Rassie plans far ahead. We can always revert back to our traditional game plan (and have done so recently), but the Boks want to and need to continuously evolve. They will need to find the balance between having a go and knowing when not try 50/50 passes/offloads. It will come, I have faith in this management team and all the players.

The argument is do we need to evolve and is it really evolving or devolving? Nothing wrong with playing the percentages and being the best at it. If they're going to change the way they play, it's not going to be enough to just do it, they need to be the best. If a backrow isn't as good at hanging on the wing where the sprint/finish/offload/step/chip kick/run support lines, and they're still world class at blasting rucks and tackling do you then get rid of that backrow player?

Seems to me it's just correct that the Boks wasted a lot of these two tests, won them both at the end when they should've smashed them.

[Blake]

Adding an expansive game to our quiver is important. It's what the fans want, it's what World Rugby wants, and it's probably going to be useful on the fast Aussie pitches in 2027, but it's very difficult to execute and our 3 biggest rivals NZ, Ireland and France all excel at it. It's going to take time for the boys to regain the attacking instincts, skills, and muscle memory that has atrophied since their schoolboy days. It's maybe why the younger players like Sacha and Fassi have slotted in so seamlessly in the play style?

But then why did we drop Libbok???

He hasn't been dropped, he just hasn't been selected. He has been part of the Irish series squad, the TRC away leg in Aus and the TRC home leg now. I would be very surprised if he doesn't start in one of the 2 Argie tests. Rassie needs to develop a 3rd flyhalf and that has to come at the expense of either Pollard or Libbok, and I guess he just didn't trust Libbok's goal kicking in matches he thought would be close...a fear I think is justified. If Libbok is going to be our 10 he's going to have to fix his goal-kicking inconsistencies or we need to suppliment him with a goalkicker like Pollard at 12 or Sacha at 15 at the expense of DDA or Willemse.

I'm of the opinion Libbok needs to completely revamp his kicking style, like Percy and Elton Jantjies and Dan Biggar for that matter had to do late in their careers. He is too squad on is approach which limits his distance make him prone to hook the ball, and his pre-kick ritual is too long and elaborate. He got caught out when there was a 90 second shot clock. I don't think he can even make 60 seconds.

[Sandstorm]

Seems to me it's just correct that the Boks wasted a lot of these two tests, won them both at the end when they should've smashed them.

This is where we need to improve and cut out the silly errors (dropped passes, grubbers into touch and a shonky lineout) if we want to beat the best. And this AB team is not the best by a mile.

Our rush defence was shown up by Ireland and I reckon France will be even better at unlocking it. Maybe even the Argies can do it....

If we don't cut out the errors and score a couple more tries when the opportunity comes (missing the conversions is also hurting us), then we'll lose by 1 or 2 instead.

[Sards]

I can't believe Libbok is even in the equation......

he missed most of his kicks in the CC for WP

[_Os_]

I sometimes listen to Keo's show. Do not think less of me for it.

I do and and you deserve it.

I feel betrayed!

Does anyone else wonder if Zels is onto something, he's the only South African out there critical of the Boks really. In his view Tony Brown is making the Boks worse and diluting a winning formula by making players do things they're less good at. Zels is a bit of a loony if you look at his Twitter feed (Keo mocks him for being a "conspiracy nut").

I wonder if there could be something in what he's saying though, it's just a fact these wins were close, but one side looked like they put everything they had on the park whilst the other side didn't play at their best then turned up at the end to win. On the other hand this is the direction World Rugby want to go (a lot of law changes target the way the Boks prefer to play), it's probably wiser and easier to move in the same direction.

I haven't watched the video (and won't) but the thought has crossed my mind. I get why we are trying to evolve.
The 2019 play-style was a band-aid. A quick-fix simple style to make the Boks competitive for the World Cup within 18 months. Winning the thing was an unexpected surprise.
By 2023 it had evolved a little bit, but it had become stale and predictable. It was still effective and obviously got us another title, but 3x 1-point victories in a row kind of tells a story on its own.
We need something...extra. Something that gives Rassie 2, 3 or even 4 gameplans where he can pick two on for a specific match and prep for those. Overload the opposition coaches with analysis and prep work, not knowing which 2 of the 4 gameplans to prepare for in the week leading to the test. And if they guessed 1 correct, switch to the other one. A lot of it is backroom chess at a level I think few fans really appreciate.

Adding an expansive game to our quiver is important. It's what the fans want, it's what World Rugby wants, and it's probably going to be useful on the fast Aussie pitches in 2027, but it's very difficult to execute and our 3 biggest rivals NZ, Ireland and France all excel at it. It's going to take time for the boys to regain the attacking instincts, skills, and muscle memory that has atrophied since their schoolboy days. It's maybe why the younger players like Sacha and Fassi have slotted in so seamlessly in the play style?

From all the interviews I've seen, the players seem to enjoy the new challenge and freedom they've been given, but then again they are all media trained and that's what they are supposed to say when a mic gets put in their face. We'll have to wait for their books in a couple of years to get the true story I guess.

I remember Jake White saying a "plan B" was pointless and just meant not enough effort had been put into "plan A".

Zels is a club/school level coach, which is better than nothing. Seemed doubtful a side could easily switch between different ways of playing, basically the more a side plays one way the more they can only play that way.

I'm a bit uneasy about the direction, about 60%-70% confident and 30%-40% uneasy. You're right about the 1 point wins, but the more obvious answer would've been to select the big guys in the pack that haven't been used much. Foreigners think that the bench is used to select freakishly large men that cannot play 80 minutes, that is not true (Du Preez twins, Marcel Coetzee, Tank, DRC brothers ... there's a lot of unused muscle in the system), but it has always sounded like something which could work for us. What Zels misses is quite a lot of the forward selections were "Tonyball" picks already, Kwagga Smith/Kolisi/Mostert/Deon Fourie, which looked at that way means "Tonyball" takes us deeper into what produced the 1 point wins. Going further back to 2019 foreigners were saying the Boks were slowing the game down etc, when it was very obvious Rassie was selecting for speed and aiming to play at the maximum tempo possible which showed in the final, I think Rassie is still chasing that sort of game plan.

Could work, could fail with a lot of excellent players unused.

[Sandstorm]

Du Preez twins, Marcel Coetzee, Tank, DRC brothers ... there's a lot of unused muscle in the system), but it has always sounded like something which could work for us.

Aren't these guys just like Roos and Van Staden? Bosh-merchants who make a few turnovers? Players who Rassie gives limited gametime to?

[_Os_]

Du Preez twins, Marcel Coetzee, Tank, DRC brothers ... there's a lot of unused muscle in the system), but it has always sounded like something which could work for us.

Aren't these guys just like Roos and Van Staden? Bosh-merchants who make a few turnovers? Players who Rassie gives limited gametime to?

Yebo.

[Blake]

I remember Jake White saying a "plan B" was pointless and just meant not enough effort had been put into "plan A".

Zels is a club/school level coach, which is better than nothing. Seemed doubtful a side could easily switch between different ways of playing, basically the more a side plays one way the more they can only play that way.

I'm a bit uneasy about the direction, about 60%-70% confident and 30%-40% uneasy. You're right about the 1 point wins, but the more obvious answer would've been to select the big guys in the pack that haven't been used much. Foreigners think that the bench is used to select freakishly large men that cannot play 80 minutes, that is not true (Du Preez twins, Marcel Coetzee, Tank, DRC brothers ... there's a lot of unused muscle in the system), but it has always sounded like something which could work for us. What Zels misses is quite a lot of the forward selections were "Tonyball" picks already, Kwagga Smith/Kolisi/Mostert/Deon Fourie, which looked at that way means "Tonyball" takes us deeper into what produced the 1 point wins. Going further back to 2019 foreigners were saying the Boks were slowing the game down etc, when it was very obvious Rassie was selecting for speed and aiming to play at the maximum tempo possible which showed in the final, I think Rassie is still chasing that sort of game plan.

Could work, could fail with a lot of excellent players unused.

Jake is still a 2007-era coach IMO and the game has moved on. His assumption only works if Plan A is bullet proof and has no exploits, which is not possible.

I agree with you that trying to be excellent at more than 1 style of play is very risky. You'll probably end up being 80% or 90% in both if you're lucky. And the more you add the more each will suffer. I share your fear and I'm worried that our 2027 RWC campain might end up being similar to Ireland's in 2019 under Schmidt where we are going to peak a year or two before the tournament when our new game really clicks, and then we are just going to fall flat on the big stage. I really hope I'm wrong though.

I think Rassie's desire to have multiple plans to draw from stems from the fact that when some teams for some matches prepared very well for our kick-chase game, they managed to shut us down completely. When their back 3 had drilled fielding high kicks all week, had an aerial meastro like Freddy Steward at 15, and had their forwards drilled on how to create a legal wall of retreating blockers, the Boks had nothing. The back 3 were in perfect field position anticipating the inevitable kick, and everybody did their part. We were toothless and relied on scrum penalties to try and get us a win...something that will also become less of a thing with new laws and guidelines from WR. So we have to think about it differently.

Rassie assumes (rightly or wrongly) that other test coaches prepare for each match in a similar way he does. You build player profiles, you analyse their previous matches to look for patterns, and you select your team and tweak your tactics to exploit what you predict they are going to do. Your preparation can then be very focussed and needs to be because you probably only have 3 or so technical sessions and 3-or so training sessions with the team before the next match (fewer between RWC matches because some quick turnarounds). You need to fix your mistakes from the last match, prep your defence for their expected attack and tweak your own attack. That's a lot of work in a short space of time, and if you get it right your Plan A will work 9 times out of 10.

But when you have an agent of chaos on the other side, it makes your prep harder and I suspect that's what Rassie is getting at. Players that are versatile, strange selections out of position, multiple styles of play, Kolbe doing scrum feeds and lineout throws...these are all subterfuge to try and obscure the patterns for the other coaches and analysts and make it harder for them to prepare for the correct tactics on the day. Maybe it's over-complicating things and they are trying to be "too clever", maybe it's genius and will work for a couple of years until it doesn't, or maybe I'm reading too much into it and I'm completely off the mark.

[Sards]

Too much stress. Rassie has it under control until he doesn't have it under control

[Blake]

Too much stress. Rassie has it under control until he doesn't have it under control

That's how it goes in this game from most coaches that don't bow out when they are on top. You win, until you don't.

[OomStruisbaai]

South African tour squad to Argentina

Props: Thomas du Toit (Bath), Vincent Koch (Sharks), Ox Nche (Sharks), Gerhard Steenekamp (Bulls).

Hookers: Johan Grobbelaar (Bulls), Malcolm Marx (Spears).

Locks: Eben Etzebeth (Sharks), Nicolaas Janse van Rensburg (Montpellier), Salmaan Moerat (Stormers), Ruan Nortje (Bulls).

Loose forwards: Ben-Jason Dixon (Stormers), Siya Kolisi (Sharks), Elrigh Louw (Bulls), Kwagga Smith (Blue Revs), Marco van Staden (Bulls), Jasper Wiese (D-Rocks).

Utility forward: Jan-Hendrik Wessels (Bulls).

Scrumhalves: Jaden Hendrikse (Sharks), Cobus Reinach (Montpellier), Grant Williams (Sharks).

Flyhalves: Manie Libbok (Stormers), Handre Pollard (Leicester Tigers).

Centres: Lukhanyo Am (Sharks), Jesse Kriel (Eagles).

Outside backs: Kurt-Lee Arendse (Bulls), Aphelele Fassi (Sharks), Makazole Mapimpi (Sharks).

Utility back: Canan Moodie (Bulls).

The seven players who will not travel to Argentina are Bongi Mbonambi (hooker), Frans Malherbe (prop), Pieter-Steph du Toit (loose forward), Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu (flyhalf), Damian de Allende (centre), Cheslin Kolbe (wing), and Willie le Roux (fullback).

[Blake]

Pretty strong team. We're going to miss the guys that are staying home a lot, but some really need a rest; PSdT, Kolbe and DDA in particular. They have all clocked a lot of minutes so far in this campaign.

[OomStruisbaai]

Yep Rassie want to hold up the RC trophy. Moerat will lead the Springboks to victory.

[OomStruisbaai]

I sometimes listen to Keo's show. Do not think less of me for it.

Does anyone else wonder if Zels is onto something, he's the only South African out there critical of the Boks really. In his view Tony Brown is making the Boks worse and diluting a winning formula by making players do things they're less good at. Zels is a bit of a loony if you look at his Twitter feed (Keo mocks him for being a "conspiracy nut").

I wonder if there could be something in what he's saying though, it's just a fact these wins were close, but one side looked like they put everything they had on the park whilst the other side didn't play at their best then turned up at the end to win. On the other hand this is the direction World Rugby want to go (a lot of law changes target the way the Boks prefer to play), it's probably wiser and easier to move in the same direction.

With the best will in the world I cannot get myself to watch anything from Keo. The fact that you can, tells me a lot about you oxman. For shame With regard to your question, it will take time for the players to adjust to the new game plan. I think it is a massive slight on the boks to think they do not have the skill or ability to play with ball in hand. Most of them do if you think about it. All the players in Japan will be used to playing an expansive style of play, a lot of the URC teams like to play running rugby as well. I think what Brown is doing is helping them identify space and trying to instil confidence in them to go for it. Obviously they have not been anywhere accurate enough yet, in part due to the defences at test rugby being a huge step up.

Rassie plans far ahead. We can always revert back to our traditional game plan (and have done so recently), but the Boks want to and need to continuously evolve. They will need to find the balance between having a go and knowing when not try 50/50 passes/offloads. It will come, I have faith in this management team and all the players.

This. I do understand Sards watching this kak, not Ox.

[assfly]

Very interesting squad. I thought the likes of Eben and Siya had earned a rest. But nice to see some fringe players back in the mix.

[Sards]

Very interesting squad. I thought the likes of Eben and Siya had earned a rest. But nice to see some fringe players back in the mix.

Looks like Rassie decided to make sure of the RC

[Blake]

Very interesting squad. I thought the likes of Eben and Siya had earned a rest. But nice to see some fringe players back in the mix.

I think he wants to put a nail in it and make the home leg a dead rubber.
I don't mind that one bit.

[Blake]

Yep Rassie want to hold up the RC trophy. Moerat will lead the Springboks to victory.

I know Moerat is some anointed one...but it seems to me as if Sacha is also decent captain material.
Rassie seems very sweet on Moerat and sees him as the one to take over the mantle from Siya, but I just don't see it.
Apparently he has a calmness and temperament that Rassie likes, but sometimes you also need some passion and fire.
It's what made Syia so successful...the combination of passion, grit and empathy. I'm struggling to see those qualities in Moerat no matter how hard I look.

[assfly]

Ja I think the question of captaincy is a tricky one. Either when Siya calls it a day, or if he gets a serious injury.

He's got huge boots to fill. Almost too big.

[Sards]

Ja I think the question of captaincy is a tricky one. Either when Siya calls it a day, or if he gets a serious injury.

He's got huge boots to fill. Almost too big.

Plenty of cover currently. PSDT, Eben, Bongi

[Blake]

Ja I think the question of captaincy is a tricky one. Either when Siya calls it a day, or if he gets a serious injury.

He's got huge boots to fill. Almost too big.

Plenty of cover currently. PSDT, Eben, Bongi

Siya 33
Eben 32
Bongi 33
PSdT 32

They are all around the same age and will likely retire around the same time. The only players outside of those 4 that have Captained the Boks recently are Pollard (30) in the 12-13 home loss to Wales and Moerat (26). We are going to run into a leadership crisis after the next World Cup if we don't start identifying and empowering the next generation of leaders in the team now. I think Sacha is a good call, but I'm not convinced by Moerat. Nortje (26) will probably also be in the conversation being Bulls captain and I think Willemse (26) will also be there by virtue of seniority but I generally don't like the idea of a fullback as captain. They are just too far away from the ref. Forwards are the way to go and Rassie is going all in on Moerat.

[OomStruisbaai]

Yep Rassie want to hold up the RC trophy. Moerat will lead the Springboks to victory.

I know Moerat is some anointed one...but it seems to me as if Sacha is also decent captain material.
Rassie seems very sweet on Moerat and sees him as the one to take over the mantle from Siya, but I just don't see it.
Apparently he has a calmness and temperament that Rassie likes, but sometimes you also need some passion and fire.
It's what made Syia so successful...the combination of passion, grit and empathy. I'm struggling to see those qualities in Moerat no matter how hard I look.

It took a long time for most like Boerewors and Sards the Kolisi selection as player and captain. Moerat will be the same. He is not the flashy type, more the grafter.

[OomStruisbaai]

He has been always captain from schoolboy days.

[Blake]

He has been always captain from schoolboy days.

I’ve heard that, but I’m sure a bunch of the players would’ve been captains of their school sides. I don’t know how much that says about anything.

I guess we’ll have to see Moerat in action when the chips are down, but I’ve not seen it in action at WP/Stormers the few matches he’s captained there.

[bok_viking]

He has been always captain from schoolboy days.

I’ve heard that, but I’m sure a bunch of the players would’ve been captains of their school sides. I don’t know how much that says about anything.

I guess we’ll have to see Moerat in action when the chips are down, but I’ve not seen it in action at WP/Stormers the few matches he’s captained there.

Unfortunately I am not convinced of Moerat as captain material either. When I see him for the boks he just seem to disappear between the other forwards in games. He just do not seem very inspiring as a captain on the field. Maybe he will get more into it eventually, but as it stands right now when I see him play he seems quite a downgrade in passion and aggression from our other locks. He is a decent player for the stormers but there are other young locks that I much rather see in the bok squad as it stands right now.

[OomStruisbaai]

Kolisi had exactly the same moans from his critics.

[assfly]

Kolisi had exactly the same moans from his critics.

Why are you going all-in on Moerat? Apart from the fact he's from the Cape.

He's hardly set the world on fire with his play. I find him quite anonymous as a player; does the basics well at this level but nothing more. I don't see very much support for him being captain, let alone in the squad. With Eben, RG, Kleyn, Lood and Louw knocking on the door, he's lucky to be in the squad.

[_Os_]

Why are you going all-in on Moerat? Apart from the fact he's from the Cape.

Oom is more extreme than that. He's very keen on some schools and on small dorpies he has lived in. Moerat went to Paarl Boys High, that gets Oom fired up and when Oom backs something there's no half measures.

He's hardly set the world on fire with his play. I find him quite anonymous as a player; does the basics well at this level but nothing more. I don't see very much support for him being captain, let alone in the squad. With Eben, RG, Kleyn, Lood and Louw knocking on the door, he's lucky to be in the squad.

He's not even the 5th best lock. Etzebeth/Mostert/Snyman/De Jager are all better, then there's others like Kleyn and Du Toit. I was sceptical of Kolisi years back before Rassie (what happened to Yank13, still alive?), but I still thought he was good enough for the squad. Moerat isn't good enough for the squad, what we're seeing at the moment is an average provincial level player. If he was from KZN and played for the Sharks no one would be talking about him becoming Bok captain.

I reckon it's unlikely that SFM will become captain whilst Rassie is involved. Not going to get too deep into it, but there's a cultural disconnect between some Afrikaners and souties, and SFM is definitely a soutie. Basically when souties are very confident and know a lot of English words that people who didn't grow up speaking English do not know (even Jean and Schalk on their podcast sometimes ask Shimmy for the English word), it is perceived as arrogant or condescending even intimidating. Obviously if you have a no "windgat" policy this then becomes an issue, because who is deciding what or who is windgat. Willie le Roux is full on tappit and not seen as windgat, Du Preez twins are souties who went to an expensive English medium private school and are not in the side for whatever reason ("windgat"? who knows). Sometimes Rassie makes a point that his players took the hard road and didn't go to the best schools etc, SFM literally went to Bishops. Some of this is justified, a guy can't be captain if he's waffling on at length in English and no one understands him.

I get the strong impression Rassie is a lot more comfortable with guys like Moerat, or Libbok, or Pollard, or Willie. And a lot less comfortable with guys that went to some expensive English medium private school.

From what I've seen in interviews I reckon SFM is quite a humble guy and would make a decent captain, maybe has the brain to not go overboard with his English skills. There's other ways you can tell he's humble, his family background isn't widely known. Anyone who really knows their stuff, knows who his grandfather was and knows he was very likely the person who designed the ANC and MK logos (the official story is they were designed by cadres in Angolan camps by committee or some nonsense, the reality of "designed by a white guy sitting in London" is a bit embarrassing). If he was someone like Puke Watson we would all be sick of hearing about his family by now, but it's not like that.

[Sandstorm]

Does Kolisi do his captain’s speech in Afrikaans?

Moerat is Currie Cup level and I say that as a loyal Stormers fan.

Edit: actually that’s unfair. One thing he does very well is support a carrying player and stay on his feet. You very seldom see him pinged for sealing off the ball.

[_Os_]

Does Kolisi do his captain’s speech in Afrikaans?

I think he speaks his second language which is English. But then they've always made a point of having multiple captains on the field, a lot of team talk will be in Afrikaans.

A native English speaker needs to make a conscious effort to speak English in a simplified way if they're going to use it. Paradoxically it's actually more difficult for a native English speaker (for example, you can't use words like "conscious" and "paradoxically", maybe even "example" is dodgy).

Moerat is Currie Cup level and I say that as a loyal Stormers fan.

Edit: actually that’s unfair. One thing he does very well is support a carrying player and stay on his feet. You very seldom see him pinged for sealing off the ball.

I can sense the conflict in you. First you say a CC level player shouldn't be Bok captain. Then he becomes "captain support carrier".

[average joe]

My fok Ox, you really are digging a big hole there to get enough soil to build your hill.

It's simple, Rassie has made it very clear from the get-go, he prefers his captain close to the coal face. He was a loose forward himself and he knows that there is where the real hard decisions are made, not with the glamour boys in the back.

[OomStruisbaai]

It's simple, Rassie has made it very clear from the get-go, he prefers his captain close to the coal face. He was a loose forward himself and he knows that there is where the real hard decisions are made, not with the glamour boys in the back.

I am not a Boishaai or Moerat fan at all. But the Tjarks posters attack me iso of their coach. The same they did when Kolisi started. Now Ox claim he deserve his spot. Kak, Ox was his biggest critics just show with their obsession with the du Preez twins.

SS

Instead 26-year-old Salmaan Moerat was chosen, raising some eyebrows no doubt among some fans and pundits.

“Giving Salmaan the captaincy against a Tier One nation will just help him grow as a player,” explained Erasmus.

“The same way we gave Pieter-Steph du Toit two captaincy opportunities, he now understands how to support a captain. He (Du Toit) will help Salmaan, just like Eben and Bongi help Siya. It is not just [about] who is the captain on the day. It is part of the growth of the player.”

But while Erasmus is taking pressure off Moerat by advising that we shouldn’t read too much into the selection, that it is about growing Moerat as a player, it would make complete sense for Erasmus to groom him as a potential alternative captain for 2027.

SALMAAN HAS CAPTAINCY PEDIGREE

The DHL Stormers captain will be 29 when the next World Cup arrives, in the prime of his career. He will be young enough still to contemplate being part of the next World Cup in the United States in 2031, when he will be 33. The same age Kolisi and Mbonambi are now.

Erasmus would have known about Moerat from when he was still involved with the Stormers and the lock was coming through at junior school level, and everyone was made aware of him when, along with Damian Willemse, he was a standout performer and the leader of the Western Province Schools team that dominated the 2016 Craven Week at Kearsney College.

He was selected at the end of that week as leader of the South African Schools team and was later the South Africa under-20 captain. He is currently the regular Stormers skipper and while Steven Kitshoff, who led that franchise to their historic win in the inaugural Vodacom United Rugby Championship, is back in town, Moerat is likely to remain the Cape team’s skipper.

Provided he remains fit, he will pick up a lot of senior captaincy experience in the next three years. Perhaps the biggest obstacle against him, being the established Bok captain by then, could be if Etzebeth retains his form and remains fit, his way into the starting team will be blocked unless he switches to a No 5 role, which is unlikely to happen.

But what if Etzebeth is not still at the top of his game in 2027, and Kolisi is also no longer there? To make the assumption they will be is wishful thinking, and Erasmus knows that wishful thinking doesn’t win World Cups. It is bold decisions and forward thinking that wins World Cups, and on both counts Rassie is a master.

OTHER YOUNG PLAYERS BEING GROOMED

It is of course not just the succession plan for the captaincy that Erasmus will be mulling over. When he was at the Stormers he used to speak about his mission of ensuring there were two good players in each position and then a promising under-20 player completing the triumvirate and he’s doing something similar in each position at the Boks.

And with the leadership of an Erasmus team never down to just one man, it is clear from his recent selections that he is developing a core of young leaders that will be ready to take over the baton from the celebrated giants who may not be around in 2027 and using the experience of the older players to help groom the newcomers.

Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu has played only five tests but he’s already been spoken of as potential captaincy material, while Ruan Nortje, the Bulls captain who plays his second Bok game on Saturday, is also a natural leader.

[_Os_]

My fok Ox, you really are digging a big hole there to get enough soil to build your hill.

It's simple, Rassie has made it very clear from the get-go, he prefers his captain close to the coal face. He was a loose forward himself and he knows that there is where the real hard decisions are made, not with the glamour boys in the back.

Which is why he has selected Pollard as captain ahead of Etzebeth and Pieter Steph du Toit. Etzebeth and Du Toit already played as captain before, but make Pollard captain because it must always be a forward.

I am correct SFM doesn't stand much chance of being captain whilst Rassie is involved. He'll be doing well to get ahead of Libbok, I give him no chance of replacing Pollard. Doesn't matter how good he is, that's not how Rassie selects players.

[LoveOfTheGame]

Why are you going all-in on Moerat? Apart from the fact he's from the Cape.

Oom is more extreme than that. He's very keen on some schools and on small dorpies he has lived in. Moerat went to Paarl Boys High, that gets Oom fired up and when Oom backs something there's no half measures.

He's hardly set the world on fire with his play. I find him quite anonymous as a player; does the basics well at this level but nothing more. I don't see very much support for him being captain, let alone in the squad. With Eben, RG, Kleyn, Lood and Louw knocking on the door, he's lucky to be in the squad.

He's not even the 5th best lock. Etzebeth/Mostert/Snyman/De Jager are all better, then there's others like Kleyn and Du Toit. I was sceptical of Kolisi years back before Rassie (what happened to Yank13, still alive?), but I still thought he was good enough for the squad. Moerat isn't good enough for the squad, what we're seeing at the moment is an average provincial level player. If he was from KZN and played for the Sharks no one would be talking about him becoming Bok captain.

I reckon it's unlikely that SFM will become captain whilst Rassie is involved. Not going to get too deep into it, but there's a cultural disconnect between some Afrikaners and souties, and SFM is definitely a soutie. Basically when souties are very confident and know a lot of English words that people who didn't grow up speaking English do not know (even Jean and Schalk on their podcast sometimes ask Shimmy for the English word), it is perceived as arrogant or condescending even intimidating. Obviously if you have a no "windgat" policy this then becomes an issue, because who is deciding what or who is windgat. Willie le Roux is full on tappit and not seen as windgat, Du Preez twins are souties who went to an expensive English medium private school and are not in the side for whatever reason ("windgat"? who knows). Sometimes Rassie makes a point that his players took the hard road and didn't go to the best schools etc, SFM literally went to Bishops. Some of this is justified, a guy can't be captain if he's waffling on at length in English and no one understands him.

I get the strong impression Rassie is a lot more comfortable with guys like Moerat, or Libbok, or Pollard, or Willie. And a lot less comfortable with guys that went to some expensive English medium private school.

From what I've seen in interviews I reckon SFM is quite a humble guy and would make a decent captain, maybe has the brain to not go overboard with his English skills. There's other ways you can tell he's humble, his family background isn't widely known. Anyone who really knows their stuff, knows who his grandfather was and knows he was very likely the person who designed the ANC and MK logos (the official story is they were designed by cadres in Angolan camps by committee or some nonsense, the reality of "designed by a white guy sitting in London" is a bit embarrassing). If he was someone like Puke Watson we would all be sick of hearing about his family by now, but it's not like that.

Bloody hell Ox, really???