The Official Aotearoa Politics Thread

[Gumboot]

"MAKE INFLUENZA GREAT AGAIN"

[Guy Smiley]

"Natural Immunity 99.6% effective"

[Gumboot]

National MP Maureen Pugh has deleted a Facebook post where she thanked the Convoy protest movement currently camping outside Parliament.

Pugh originally edited the post to remove the mention of the protest before deleting it entirely.

She told Stuff that when she made the reference she did not realise many of the protesters were against Covid-19 vaccination.

Ahh, the ol' Harete Hipango excuse.

Simon Bridges was right - Pugh is fucking useless.

[Guy Smiley]

About 120 people have been arrested in a protest event described as “unprecedented” by police.
Wellington District Commander Superintendent Corrie Parnell said staff from around the country will continue to be brought in as they anticipate the protest will continue over the next couple of days.
Currently 150 extra staff joined district staff. Parnell said police are well advanced in their plans to remove vehicles blocking streets.
He confirmed police will continue the same approach seen today well into the evening and over the coming days.
Two police staff have been injured and some protesters have suffered minor injuries. He confirmed police have been using pepper spray on protesters.
- Report from Sophie Cornish

[Gumboot]

"Natural Immunity 99.6% effective"

That's a truly sad excuse for a "protest" sign, but the idiot does have impressive stamina...and muttonchops.


Scratch that, he's just brought on a sub.

[FalseBayFC]

What is the white flag with a blue rectangle top left with white stars and a cross? I've seen it on some of the protest footage.

[Guy Smiley]

What is the white flag with a blue rectangle top left with white stars and a cross? I've seen it on some of the protest footage.

The first flag of NZ… the ‘tribes’ flag

https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/tamin ... ribes-flag

[FalseBayFC]

What is the white flag with a blue rectangle top left with white stars and a cross? I've seen it on some of the protest footage.

The first flag of NZ… the ‘tribes’ flag

https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/tamin ... ribes-flag

Cool thanks. Does it have any political significance in the modern day? Any reason an anti-vaxxer would be waving it?

[Guy Smiley]

What is the white flag with a blue rectangle top left with white stars and a cross? I've seen it on some of the protest footage.

The first flag of NZ… the ‘tribes’ flag

https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/tamin ... ribes-flag

Cool thanks. Does it have any political significance in the modern day? Any reason an anti-vaxxer would be waving it?

Not really. NZ has a complex history regarding land rights and Treaty negotiations which has seen different flags used at times by various groups… there’s another flag that you see flying a lot around Northland for instance, near the Treaty grounds at Waitangi and around the province generally. I think this current mob have just chosen a flag they see as representative of being anti government. This protest movement isn’t just comprised of anti vax or mask mandate proponents, there are a number of special interest groups who have hitched their wagon to it as well… Kiwis can be stridently anti govt over some issues and what we see now is a sort of paranoia being fed by manipulators connected with other is groups. Some of them have chosen this flag.

[Gumboot]

What is the white flag with a blue rectangle top left with white stars and a cross? I've seen it on some of the protest footage.

The first flag of NZ… the ‘tribes’ flag

https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/tamin ... ribes-flag

Cool thanks. Does it have any political significance in the modern day? Any reason an anti-vaxxer would be waving it?

Yes, it's the same reason some of them are waving the Tino Rangatiratanga flag.

And the same reason some of them are waving the Trump 2020 flag.

They're all fuckwits.

They're complete fuckwits.

[Guy Smiley]

Well yeah. That, really.

[Gumboot]

Too harsh?

[Guy Smiley]

Succinct and to the point.

Quite fair, really.

[FalseBayFC]

Too harsh?

I think fuckwits is a good way to describe them. They all seem to have forehead vein throbbing in the close-up shots.

[Jambanja]

I see Mallard ordered the sprinklers turned on, which was quite funny, although, it was already pissing down, so not quite as effective as it might have been if he had done it yesterday, fecking typical, a day late and a dollar short

[Gumboot]

If the weather forecast's accurate, the fuckwits might find their enthusiasm somewhat dampened by the end of the weekend.

[Guy Smiley]

I see Mallard ordered the sprinklers turned on, which was quite funny, although, it was already pissing down, so not quite as effective as it might have been if he had done it yesterday, fecking typical, a day late and a dollar short

Oh I don't know...

they're not set to spray. They're set to flood. They're also set to run all night.

[Jambanja]

I see Mallard ordered the sprinklers turned on, which was quite funny, although, it was already pissing down, so not quite as effective as it might have been if he had done it yesterday, fecking typical, a day late and a dollar short

Oh I don't know...

they're not set to spray. They're set to flood. They're also set to run all night.

Be it the sprinkler system or the cyclone heading their way, I have a feeling that Parliament lawn is about to be turned into something akin to the fields of Glastonbury, that is if they manage to last it out, I have my doubts

[Guy Smiley]

I see Mallard ordered the sprinklers turned on, which was quite funny, although, it was already pissing down, so not quite as effective as it might have been if he had done it yesterday, fecking typical, a day late and a dollar short

Oh I don't know...

they're not set to spray. They're set to flood. They're also set to run all night.

Be it the sprinkler system or the cyclone heading their way, I have a feeling that Parliament lawn is about to be turned into something akin to the fields of Glastonbury, that is if they manage to last it out, I have my doubts

Apparently, the protestors have taken another page from the Canadian protest handbook and are putting kids in the front lines.

I'd like to see the cops hit it all with a sledgehammer early tomorrow morning actually... minimal disturbance to commerce, maximum surprise impact value. Remove everything and then set up secure fencing and gate control around the precinct. This isn't, in my view, a legitimate protest movement. It's an orchestrated attack... let's stop pussyfooting around it and call it what it is. A couple of centuries ago we'd call these people traitors. It's a subversive movement that has the potential to become quite dangerous if left unchecked.

[Jambanja]

I think it’s a cluster, been hijacked by too many different groups with different agendas, mixed messaging etc, and you’re right, the use of kids is appalling.
I think the rain may dampen a few spirits

[Jb1981]

While I appreciate the sentiment of putting the sprinklers on, Wellington City Council is at level two water restrictions. According to their website:

This means there is a ban on sprinklers and irrigation systems. You can use handheld watering devices anytime, on any day, so long as you don’t leave them unattended.

The right thing here is for Trevor Mallard to get out there with a hose/watering can and moisten the protesters the old fashioned way.

[Guy Smiley]

I think it’s a cluster, been hijacked by too many different groups with different agendas, mixed messaging etc, and you’re right, the use of kids is appalling.
I think the rain may dampen a few spirits

Here's an article that spells out the direct threat this whole convoy phenomenon presents while it outlines the players influencing the whole shebang. I think it's a genuine worry because the same name keeps popping up in various theatres where dissatisfaction over Covid measures is turning into a more active rebellion focussed movement.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/hijacked-the ... its-rudder


Here's a supplement that goes further in spelling out the threat... from Bernard Hickey, who I'm coming to admire as a seriously sane and informed journo

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/10-02 ... -it-really

[convoluted]

To me, the Wellington protestors look nothing other than a Summer of Love grouping.

And actually, speaking of those BLM protests in the US of 18 months ago, how lazy of the poster below to simply cut and paste what he wrote about those particular 'mostly peaceful' BLM activities which burnt down sizable blocks of the affected cities, left many dead, and injured hundreds of police:

...
I'd like to see the cops hit it all with a sledgehammer early tomorrow morning actually... minimal disturbance to commerce, maximum surprise impact value. Remove everything and then set up secure fencing and gate control around the precinct. This isn't, in my view, a legitimate protest movement. It's an orchestrated attack... let's stop pussyfooting around it and call it what it is. A couple of centuries ago we'd call these people traitors. It's a subversive movement that has the potential to become quite dangerous if left unchecked.

[Gumboot]

Hopefully the combo of shit weather and shit music will budge a few of their sorry arses today.

[convoluted]

Here's an article that spells out the direct threat this whole convoy phenomenon presents while it outlines the players influencing the whole shebang. I think it's a genuine worry because the same name keeps popping up in various theatres where dissatisfaction over Covid measures is turning into a more active rebellion focussed movement.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/hijacked-the ... its-rudder
... ...

Surely to God the above is a spoof article, accompanied by a spoof response from our poster.

... "There's something going on here that's actually quite disturbing, in terms of splintered realities and lack of a shared narrative," Sanjana Hattotuwa, who monitors extremism and misinformation in New Zealand for Te Pūnaha Matatini's Disinformation Project, told Newsroom.

While police are now managing the physical event on the ground, the battles being fought over narrative online threaten to further fray New Zealand's social fabric, he warned.
......................
There's something going on here that's actually quite disturbing in terms of splintered realities and the lack of a shared narrative."

These splintered realities risk setting us on the course towards splintered societies, Hattotuwa said.
....................
"This is hitting, hard, social cohesion right now. It's a very sophisticated playbook. It is not original because it has been played out in developing countries like mine and also on both sides of the Atlantic, but here, it's playing out right now."

Hattotuwa compared the protest to a terror attack, not because of the physical impact on people but because of the social and political impact on New Zealand as a whole. He said the Government's social cohesion work programme, still under development in the aftermath of the March 15 mosque shootings, would be needed for this type of situation. The more social cohesion frays, the harder it is to rein in violent extremism - a lesson he learned from his home country of Sri Lanka.

"That is what keeps me up at night, because you're talking to a person who comes from a very different context. I come from the end point of where this leads. When you come from the end point of a journey, you realise the markers of how you got there," Hattotuwa said.

"What I'm seeing right now - of course it's not destiny - but what you're seeing is the inexorable traversing of a journey that will take you to not a good place. That is the problem. That is what worries me. It's not prophecy, but it is prescience because of the experience that we have been through elsewhere."


The very 'splintering' of NZ society that Hattotuwa drones on about is exactly what has prompted many of the protestors. Lots currently rage at the authoritarianism of our socialist government and the deliberate social splintering that it is they themselves who are engaging in, just as per the Progressive Democrat playbook in the US.

And yet this quoted article completely inverts things to smear the protestors as the ones doing the hacking ...
exactly as how, in the US, the Democrats mouth about 'our sacred democracy' and 'our sacred Constitution' while at the same time attempting in every possible way to totally dismantle each of those.

[Gumboot]

Just yesterday I thought "MAKE INFLUENZA GREAT AGAIN" would be the most brainless "protest" sign I'll ever see.

Then this morning, along came "ALEX JONES"

[Guy Smiley]

Just yesterday I thought "MAKE INFLUENZA GREAT AGAIN" would be the most brainless "protest" sign I'll ever see.

Then this morning, along came "ALEX JONES"

Currently without power after yesterday’s storm so I’ve cruised up to KatiKati to urgently restore the lack of caffeine in my system.

There’s considerable wind damage just in the 5km or so between my place and town. Trust power can’t give a time for estimated restoration of service due to the sheer number of outages. We copped a bit of a blast… some of my chillies were stripped off the bushes before they were quite ready, dammit


Hopefully it’ll also discourage some of the protest mob.

Yeah, right.

[inactionman]

Apologies if posted above, I've not been following thread. This is wonderful though.

New Zealand authorities deploy Barry Manilow against Covid protesters

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... protesters

[Ymx]

I think rather amusingly James Blunt volunteered his song “you’re beautiful” as well, and they took him up on it.

[Gumboot]

It took the yanks about 10 days of Van Halen to finally flush out Manuel Noriega iirc.

[Guy Smiley]

[Guy Smiley]

Bernard Hickey addressed 3 Waters in this morning's newsletter and in doing so, he summarised a major flaw in our political thinking here that transcends party policy,it's dominant thinking. He's mentioned it before and I'm convinced he's spot on...

In my view, the entire Three Waters process is a fudge to deal with two optics problems that shouldn’t be a problem if only both major parties, councils (and Treasury in particular) would have realistic conversations and take a modern approach to public debt and migration planning.

Three Waters is designed to structure the nation’s water assets so they can bear the $150b of public debt needed to fund 20-30 years of remedial infrastructure work in their own right outside of ‘core crown debt’ held by the Government. The four entities are being extracted out of council assets to take the vexed issue of water chargers and water meters out of the hands of anti-rates-campaigning councillors and mayors. It would have been much faster and more efficient, and a lot less politically painful in the end, for either councils or the Government to take that debt onto their own balance sheets. Councils and both major parties should just have been upfront about the need for higher public debt to both catch up on past under-investment and to improve water quality, along with dealing with a likely continuation of fast population growth.
All because migration and higher debt can’t be talked about in public

But it would have meant having hard public conversations about having higher public debt levels to GDP than is currently the case and taking a collective view on what population growth levels we want as a nation and will pay for.

Aside from the broad reluctance to talk in public about what migration levels we want and why, this is all because of the now-embarrassing and out-of-date obsession with keeping net core crown debt around 20-30% of GDP. This obsession currently also means Auckland Council (in particular) can’t run higher debt levels relative to income or have a lower credit rating. So the ‘solution’ being used for Three Waters, as well as for Kainga Ora and Waka Kotahi, is to create new ‘off balance sheet’ vehicles that carve off specific assets and creates new dedicated revenue streams to fund the debt on those assets.

All so Treasury and our political mainstream can tell themselves and a public that is supposedly paranoid about rising public debt that they aren’t increasing debt. The wider Government sector clearly is, and should, be increasing debt. That’s the most efficient and fairest way to fund these long-term public assets. The failure to properly invest in public infrastructure to prepare for (or just plain cope with) 1-2% population growth over the last 20 years is foundational to most of our problems.

A much simpler solution would have been for both Government and councils to plan the $150b of spending needed over the next 20-30 years and agree a fair split of which balance sheets should have which debt and then just raise the money.

Who is everyone kidding?

I don’t know who the Government or the Councils think they are kidding. The ratings agencies? They can see all this and are happy to take the fees from whoever is borrowing and know there is monstrous demand for this debt globally.

All this is doing is increasing the likely debt costs by layering in unnecessary margins to core crown debt. It is a tragedy of the political economy that 30 years of scaremongering about public debt has led to the unintended consequence of Three Waters becoming lumped in with a general provincial backlash against Government that includes issues as unrelated and peripheral as the ‘Ute tax’, water quality standards, RMA reform and an ugly scare campaign about iwi ‘taking’ water assets ‘back’ by stealth.

Now we’ll see whether Nanaia Mahuta wants to take up the ‘shares’ option and whether councils think it changes the landscape. I doubt it will and now the Government, if it pushes ahead with this, faces the ugly prospect of the provincial backlash overlapping with council elections in October that install Trumpy councillors and mayors who want to upend all the (mostly) good work being done around housing, climate change and infrastructure reform.

All because the Government and councils are scared of talking honestly about public debt and migration.

[Enzedder]

That guy writes some really good stuff. It's funny that National and that ACT fellow know all this and just bleat about the negative aspects without ever discussing a solution.

This is the VERY REASON why we need 3 Waters.

[Niegs]

Jacinda with the double encore:

[Gumboot]

National MP for Tauranga Sam Uffindell looks likely to have one of the shortest ever careers in NZ politics. Just another in a long line of feckless, self-entitled young dickheads that National keeps selecting as their candidates, stretching all the way back to Aaron "don't you know who I am??" Gilmore and beyond. You'd think they'd get it by now...

[Guy Smiley]

He won the seat in a bye election so it’s his even if the Nats dump him…

and yeah. They know how to pick ‘em.

[Gumboot]

Please spare a thought for all the Sams we've failed

Spare a thought for Sam Uffindell. The system has failed him. And in a way, we are all to blame.

Picture now that callow impressionable 16-year-old. Finding himself running with, well, not a bad crowd but just a bunch of boys who will be boys, Sam and his mates beat up a frightened 13-year-old cowering in his bed. There are no knives or gang patches involved, you understand. These are young gentlemen who prefer the simple honest heft of a co-opted wooden bed leg.

Found out, Sam is asked to leave his prestigious boys’ school, because being expelled would obviously be A Bad Look For Everyone. Cast adrift, he washes up at, er, another prestigious boys’ school. From this bleak purgatory there is only one hard-scrabble pathway forward: a stint of drinking and unprosecuted marijuana use at Otago Uni, followed by a career in banking and a seat in Parliament.

But it didn’t have to be like this for Sam. If it weren’t for the colour of his skin and his socio-economic status, he could have had a real chance. A chance to atone for this early foolish mistake. A mistake that, when you think about it, any of us with a hankering to assault smaller children could easily have made. He could have had a chance to make it right, to exorcise the demons that apparently have troubled him these past 22 (or 10, or however many) years, and to move on.

Yes, if only the dice of life had fallen in Sam’s favour, things could have been so different. A knock on the door from a friendly police officer, a ride to the station, the reading to him of his rights and the opportunity to attend Youth Court and have the whole thing laid bare and dealt with then and there. The opportunity that so many impoverished brown youths are so often freely given. But an opportunity that was sadly and cruelly denied to Sam...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/1295524 ... eve-failed

[Guy Smiley]

[Ymx]

[Enzedder]

Jaysus but Sharma is just a trainwreck for Labour. I think someone needs to give him whatever he wants to shut him up or this will be the final nail in the coffin.