NPR

Kiwias wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:56 am I understand all of that and the failure of the Democrats (or more liberal parties) to generate a clear message about what their policies are intended to achieve particularly in the short-term but at the same time, it is strange that genuine improvements in wages, employment, inflation, etc., those issues that are important to your example of Otis at John Deere, are not recognised by the people who actually benefit from them.

That can surely not be down solely to the Dems inability to generate a clear message.

I also get the appeal of a populist demagogue but struggle to understand why that appeal is strong enough to override the negatives of a candidate such as Trump.

I think the lack of appreciation for what is definitely a better living standard is the visibility of inequality. There has been a massive shift in wealth over our lifetimes... neoliberalism. Reaganomics for the US, Thatcher in the UK, Douglas in NZ... the wealthy got a shit load wealthier than poor old Otis who is now struggling to afford a home because property has become a growth investment instead of a basic necessity. Everything has been reduced to being a commodity and the masses aren't getting on that ride. They're fuelling it.

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:02 am

Kiwias wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:56 am I understand all of that and the failure of the Democrats (or more liberal parties) to generate a clear message about what their policies are intended to achieve particularly in the short-term but at the same time, it is strange that genuine improvements in wages, employment, inflation, etc., those issues that are important to your example of Otis at John Deere, are not recognised by the people who actually benefit from them.

That can surely not be down solely to the Dems inability to generate a clear message.

I also get the appeal of a populist demagogue but struggle to understand why that appeal is strong enough to override the negatives of a candidate such as Trump.

I think the lack of appreciation for what is definitely a better living standard is the visibility of inequality. There has been a massive shift in wealth over our lifetimes... neoliberalism. Reaganomics for the US, Thatcher in the UK, Douglas in NZ... the wealthy got a shit load wealthier than poor old Otis who is now struggling to afford a home because property has become a growth investment instead of a basic necessity. Everything has been reduced to being a commodity and the masses aren't getting on that ride. They're fuelling it.

Good explanation. Japan is an unusual case in that whereas the economic circumstances are similar to most Western countries, down to the clear inequality in incomes albeit not to the obscene levels seen in the US or UK in particular, the declining and ageing population are combining with a lack of a clear vision for the future to trigger a major decline in the birthrate.

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:28 am

Kiwias wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:08 am

Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:21 am
For all that, with his team he is still miles ahead of Trump.

This, over and over and over again. It is utterly mind-boggling that 40%+ of Americans support the Orange Buffoon.

If there's one thing we need to get our heads around regarding politics over the last say, 10 year span. That is that populism is winning and it throws up inconvenient realities for those of us who are probably relatively progressive in our outlook. We are the enemy... progressives are seen by a sizeable chunk of westerners as the cause of their daily problems. It's arrogant of us (as a collective) to assume the 'other side' are simplistic or ill informed, yet many do. Hilary Clinton and her 'deplorables' comment is an example...

what the Left consistently fails to understand or articulate is the need for simple, clear messaging about down to earth, daily problems... lofty concepts like man made climate change forcing mass migrations and food production failures mean jack shit to Otis losing his job down at the John Deere factory.

It's terrifyingly understandable that Trump has such appeal. His rivals have their heads up their own arses.

There is an extremely clear public agenda for a Trump presidency in the form of Project 2025. There is an extremely public and clear bargain between Trump and fossil fuel companies to exchange campaign funding for a removal of all restrictions on their operations. There is a clear precedent for appointing judges at all levels to cement legislation in areas such banning abortion completely. Trump has been completely transparent on where he stands on Russia.

The idea that he would be restrained in some way is beyond credibility. If there was some major economic collapse that looked like leading to defeat for the republicans at a future presidential election then there wouldn't be one. This is a man who literally sent people to try and overturn an election result using violence.

Quite why the Democrats are fucking about is beyond me, but they are the Democrats and we have decades of precedence as to how they fail to act in the face of GOP ruthlessness both short and long term.

Project 2025 is the terrifying bit...


in a collection of horrors.

troglodiet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:47 pm A post about Biden only, no mention about "the other side" (rare these days):

I really dislike Biden. Or i should say disliked. Because this isn't about politics anymore.

Putting politics and my opinion about him aside, I really feel sorry for him. His family and medical team should not allow him to carry on. He's clearly very unwell. My guess would be Parkinson's.

This is not a statement influenced by politics. It's about feeling for an elderly person.

That statement is a surprise as there is very little to dislike about Biden as a person while as a politician he is pretty bland and neutral.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:01 am,...banning abortion completely...

I'm asking this from a LEGAL point of view, I'm not interested in the political or moral sides.

The way I understand it, is that the overturning of Roe v Wade actually makes it impossible for the president, or federal government, to ban abortion country wide?

It is now up to each state to decide, exactly like the death penalty is still legal in a couple of states despite it being illegal in the majority of states.

Kiwias wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:30 am

troglodiet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:47 pm A post about Biden only, no mention about "the other side" (rare these days):

I really dislike Biden. Or i should say disliked. Because this isn't about politics anymore.

Putting politics and my opinion about him aside, I really feel sorry for him. His family and medical team should not allow him to carry on. He's clearly very unwell. My guess would be Parkinson's.

This is not a statement influenced by politics. It's about feeling for an elderly person.

That statement is a surprise as there is very little to dislike about Biden as a person while as a politician he is pretty bland and neutral.

Nah mate, I don't share your opinion about him.

But I refuse to argue about politics, the only thing that will achieve is unnecessary arguments. You and I get along great otherwise, so why mess it up over politics of all things.

It's okay to have opposing views.

troglodiet wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:35 am

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:01 am,...banning abortion completely...

I'm asking this from a LEGAL point of view, I'm not interested in the political or moral sides.

The way I understand it, is that the overturning of Roe v Wade actually makes it impossible for the president, or federal government, to ban abortion country wide?

It is now up to each state to decide, exactly like the death penalty is still legal in a couple of states despite it being illegal in the majority of states.

Not to my understanding. As I understand it Roe v Wade stated that abortion was protected under the 9th & 14th amendments of the constitution. The 2022 decision removed that constitutional protection.
So it’s open season for federal or state lawmakers to pass laws restricting abortion.

The left is trying to tie Donald Trump to The Heritage Foundation Project 2025 which is completely false. Donald Trump supports his agenda on his website called Agenda 47.

Agenda 47 Promise #6: Rebuilding America’s Depleted Military

President Donald J. Trump announced his plan to rebuild America’s depleted military, address the military recruitment crisis, and restore the proud culture and honor of America’s armed forces.

On Day One, President Trump will restore his successful America First foreign policy to bring peace and stability to Eastern Europe.

“In addition, I will ask Europe to reimburse us for the cost of rebuilding the stockpiles sent to Ukraine, which they should be doing now but Joe Biden is too weak and too disrespected to even ask,” President Trump said. “The fact is that we've spent almost $200 billion in helping Ukraine and Europe has spent just a tiny fraction of that amount.”

In total aid (military, financial and humanitarian combined), the European Union and its countries have provided the most to Ukraine, according to Kiel Institute

TB63 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 10:35 am

The left is trying to tie Donald Trump to The Heritage Foundation Project 2025 which is completely false. Donald Trump supports his agenda on his website called Agenda 47.

Agenda 47 Promise #6: Rebuilding America’s Depleted Military

President Donald J. Trump announced his plan to rebuild America’s depleted military, address the military recruitment crisis, and restore the proud culture and honor of America’s armed forces.

On Day One, President Trump will restore his successful America First foreign policy to bring peace and stability to Eastern Europe.

“In addition, I will ask Europe to reimburse us for the cost of rebuilding the stockpiles sent to Ukraine, which they should be doing now but Joe Biden is too weak and too disrespected to even ask,” President Trump said. “The fact is that we've spent almost $200 billion in helping Ukraine and Europe has spent just a tiny fraction of that amount.”

In total aid (military, financial and humanitarian combined), the European Union and its countries have provided the most to Ukraine, according to Kiel Institute

Are you genuinely surprised that he is lying?

troglodiet wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:45 am

Kiwias wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:30 am

troglodiet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:47 pm A post about Biden only, no mention about "the other side" (rare these days):

I really dislike Biden. Or i should say disliked. Because this isn't about politics anymore.

Putting politics and my opinion about him aside, I really feel sorry for him. His family and medical team should not allow him to carry on. He's clearly very unwell. My guess would be Parkinson's.

This is not a statement influenced by politics. It's about feeling for an elderly person.

That statement is a surprise as there is very little to dislike about Biden as a person while as a politician he is pretty bland and neutral.

Nah mate, I don't share your opinion about him.

But I refuse to argue about politics, the only thing that will achieve is unnecessary arguments. You and I get along great otherwise, so why mess it up over politics of all things.

It's okay to have opposing views.

You should stop getting your political news from Russel Brand. This is a chat forum, it’s pretty weak to state your contrarian opinion, and then refuse to back it up because you don’t like to argue.

As somewhere else said, Biden is a decent man whose mind is diluting with age, this has been known for some time and he should never have been the Democrat’s candidate for 2024. He’s still far better than the alternative who is a demented and angry POS who lives in an alternative reality.

Part of the reason the Democrats message of what they've achieved has failed to hit home is normally the President would go to and stump for their policies/achievements and take all the free press that generates. For whatever reason the incumbent has been running on a strategy of run silent run deep lest you open your mouth and be thought a fool, and nobody else comes close to having the opportunity to work that bully pulpit .

Well, actually, maybe Obama would, but that would hinder as much as help quite possibly, even if he was willing to do it. But certainly none of the current cabinet could generate what 'POTUS' can in media coverage

But too the Dems are still stuck in a mindset of thinking what they've done means anything, it's much more about what's next with the electorate, especially when things like the infrastructure bill will pay off way further down the line, and they're simply ignoring some of their policies, tariffs, don't come without problems. Sure the GOP have nothing useful to say and much more they're a mix of the insane and actively dangerous, but a lot of people like the easy lie, and then the GOP have a lotto single issue loons

Calculon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 11:53 am

troglodiet wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:45 am

Kiwias wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:30 am

That statement is a surprise as there is very little to dislike about Biden as a person while as a politician he is pretty bland and neutral.

Nah mate, I don't share your opinion about him.

But I refuse to argue about politics, the only thing that will achieve is unnecessary arguments. You and I get along great otherwise, so why mess it up over politics of all things.

It's okay to have opposing views.

You should stop getting your political news from Russel Brand. This is a chat forum, it’s pretty weak to state your contrarian opinion, and then refuse to back it up because you don’t like to argue.

Yeah. Maybe.

Nah.

Indeed, one shouldn't take any views from Russel Brand, political or otherwise.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:53 pm Indeed, one shouldn't take any views from Russel Brand, political or otherwise.

He was entertaining for a while, sometimes showed some entertaining video clips. Like those "Try not to laugh" type channels. His opinions not to be taken seriously. His New Age type stuff was more interesting.

But he recently converted to Christianity (I have no problem with that) but he's going the full evangelical route.

I don't watch much political shit these days, unless it looks like a laugh. And isn't longer than 3-4 minutes.

Kiwias wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:08 am

Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:21 am
For all that, with his team he is still miles ahead of Trump.

This, over and over and over again. It is utterly mind-boggling that 40%+ of Americans support the Orange Buffoon.

That statement shows a complete lack of understanding of your typical American.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:51 pm

Kiwias wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:08 am

Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:21 am
For all that, with his team he is still miles ahead of Trump.

This, over and over and over again. It is utterly mind-boggling that 40%+ of Americans support the Orange Buffoon.

That statement shows a complete lack of understanding of your typical American.

What pray tell is typical?

Calculon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 11:53 am

troglodiet wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:45 am

Kiwias wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:30 am

That statement is a surprise as there is very little to dislike about Biden as a person while as a politician he is pretty bland and neutral.

Nah mate, I don't share your opinion about him.

But I refuse to argue about politics, the only thing that will achieve is unnecessary arguments. You and I get along great otherwise, so why mess it up over politics of all things.

It's okay to have opposing views.

You should stop getting your political news from Russel Brand. This is a chat forum, it’s pretty weak to state your contrarian opinion, and then refuse to back it up because you don’t like to argue.

As somewhere else said, Biden is a decent man whose mind is diluting with age, this has been known for some time and he should never have been the Democrat’s candidate for 2024. He’s still far better than the alternative who is a demented and angry POS who lives in an alternative reality.

It's rare enough that I'd agree with calculon but today is such a day. Anybody who genuinely thinks Biden is anything other than a decent human being is either sniffing glue or has been exposed to a lethal dose of right wing brain rot.

troglodiet wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:20 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:53 pm Indeed, one shouldn't take any views from Russel Brand, political or otherwise.

He was entertaining for a while, sometimes showed some entertaining video clips. Like those "Try not to laugh" type channels. His opinions not to be taken seriously. His New Age type stuff was more interesting.

But he recently converted to Christianity (I have no problem with that) but he's going the full evangelical route.

I don't watch much political shit these days, unless it looks like a laugh. And isn't longer than 3-4 minutes.

Getting ready for the sentencing hearing after he's found guilty of rape no doubt !

"You Honour, my client is a reformed man ......"

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:58 pm

Calculon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 11:53 am

troglodiet wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:45 am


Nah mate, I don't share your opinion about him.

But I refuse to argue about politics, the only thing that will achieve is unnecessary arguments. You and I get along great otherwise, so why mess it up over politics of all things.

It's okay to have opposing views.

You should stop getting your political news from Russel Brand. This is a chat forum, it’s pretty weak to state your contrarian opinion, and then refuse to back it up because you don’t like to argue.

As somewhere else said, Biden is a decent man whose mind is diluting with age, this has been known for some time and he should never have been the Democrat’s candidate for 2024. He’s still far better than the alternative who is a demented and angry POS who lives in an alternative reality.

It's rare enough that I'd agree with calculon but today is such a day. Anybody who genuinely thinks Biden is anything other than a decent human being is either sniffing glue or has been exposed to a lethal dose of right wing brain rot.

And yet Biden is working hard to undermine any claims he might have for being a decent person.

I would say I've not had to face, if on a much , much smaller scale, the slide into irrelevancy (or maybe I have and just don't know it) but the shift from no malarkey to no recollection isn't about him, maybe for him and Jill it's about him, but for everyone else it's about the USA/world and he's failing them/us. The DNC have months to resolve this, if they really want to claim it's beyond them they're not fit for office

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:46 pm

troglodiet wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:20 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:53 pm Indeed, one shouldn't take any views from Russel Brand, political or otherwise.

He was entertaining for a while, sometimes showed some entertaining video clips. Like those "Try not to laugh" type channels. His opinions not to be taken seriously. His New Age type stuff was more interesting.

But he recently converted to Christianity (I have no problem with that) but he's going the full evangelical route.

I don't watch much political shit these days, unless it looks like a laugh. And isn't longer than 3-4 minutes.

Getting ready for the sentencing hearing after he's found guilty of rape no doubt !

"You Honour, my client is a reformed man ......"

I don't want to put words in Brand's mouth, really who'd want to put anything in his mouth, but it seems much more likely it's about continuing the grift than a sentencing defence. The grift is worth millions, even to the likes of Brand.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:44 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:51 pm

Kiwias wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:08 am

This, over and over and over again. It is utterly mind-boggling that 40%+ of Americans support the Orange Buffoon.

That statement shows a complete lack of understanding of your typical American.

What pray tell is typical?

How many times do I need to explain this to people. In any democratic system U.S, Oz, England, etc etc a large proportion of voters that a party get are rusted on voters, i.e that party will get those voters regardless of who they have running. The Republicans could put up Adolf Hitler and they would still amass around 40% of those who could be bother voting. It's the swing voters that a party are trying to entice, hence the "battleground" States in the U.S. In the case of the Democrats they are working hard to get non-voters to the ballet box on a not surprising campaign of "vote against Trump".

If you look at the recent UK election, the right vote was split and their was actually hatred for the insanity that is the current Tories, hence the landslide and the rise in third party voters. Reform and LibDem got disaffected Tory voters, the Greens picked off a lot of Labour votes. Surprise for me was the two independents that got in solely on the Gaza issue, wasn't aware previously that the Muslim vote was that impactful in England. Ouch for the SNP btw, but hey flounder around not achieving anything and you kind of get screwed at the ballot box. Is it just me or does the leader of the SNP look like an ex skinhead?

If I was in the U.S I would be voting for Biden as he totally supports the Ukraine leader Putin, and his VP Trump is a hoot.

Serious is this the level of candidate the U.S can front up to a Presidential campaign, you can either vote for someone with apparent reasoning issues or someone with apparent reasoning issues who wouldn't know the truth if it leaped up and bit him on the arse. If either party had of nominated, yes I am aware neither party have endorsed their candidate, someone younger who actually knew how to politic they would romp this one in.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:46 pm

troglodiet wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:20 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:53 pm Indeed, one shouldn't take any views from Russel Brand, political or otherwise.

He was entertaining for a while, sometimes showed some entertaining video clips. Like those "Try not to laugh" type channels. His opinions not to be taken seriously. His New Age type stuff was more interesting.

But he recently converted to Christianity (I have no problem with that) but he's going the full evangelical route.

I don't watch much political shit these days, unless it looks like a laugh. And isn't longer than 3-4 minutes.

Getting ready for the sentencing hearing after he's found guilty of rape no doubt !

"You Honour, my client is a reformed man ......"

Or maybe so he can appeal better to, and grift more off Evangelical Yanks who lap up his Biden is evil and Trump is our saviour shtick

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:47 pm

And yet Biden is working hard to undermine any claims he might have for being a decent person.

I would say I've not had to face, if on a much , much smaller scale, the slide into irrelevancy (or maybe I have and just don't know it) but the shift from no malarkey to no recollection isn't about him, maybe for him and Jill it's about him, but for everyone else it's about the USA/world and he's failing them/us. The DNC have months to resolve this, if they really want to claim it's beyond them they're not fit for office

The weight of responsibility and expectation that comes with the role he's in are entirely relevant factors in his performance, but not in determining his character. You seem to be attaching your own emotional agenda to your definition of decency in this case.

If they're going to make the changes they need to do it bloody quickly, to avoid issues around state ballot dates.

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:40 pm If they're going to make the changes they need to do it bloody quickly, to avoid issues around state ballot dates.

It depends.

If Biden leaves it late, then all the; "he's too old, what will he be like in 4 years time" questions immediately flip over to the Traitor, & where do the right wing media go with that ?

I'd like to see Joe being honest & saying that the Presidency is an immense task for anyone, & that while he is proud of the work he has done, there is much more to be done, & it needs someone who can look forward to two terms in office, & he just can't guarantee that, & so he had decided to pass the torch to the younger generation, & let his VP choose her own running mate, to continue the good work.

Biden has the chance to show that not all Political careers end in failure, by taking the patriotic option, & ending on a high, & making sure that he isn't the, last President of the United States of America !

Calculon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:22 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:46 pm

troglodiet wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:20 pm


He was entertaining for a while, sometimes showed some entertaining video clips. Like those "Try not to laugh" type channels. His opinions not to be taken seriously. His New Age type stuff was more interesting.

But he recently converted to Christianity (I have no problem with that) but he's going the full evangelical route.

I don't watch much political shit these days, unless it looks like a laugh. And isn't longer than 3-4 minutes.

Getting ready for the sentencing hearing after he's found guilty of rape no doubt !

"You Honour, my client is a reformed man ......"

Or maybe so he can appeal better to, and grift more off Evangelical Yanks who lap up his Biden is evil and Trump is our saviour shtick

The Yanks don't have the least clue who the fuck he is; he's a UK only "celeb"

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:59 pm

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:40 pm If they're going to make the changes they need to do it bloody quickly, to avoid issues around state ballot dates.

It depends.

If Biden leaves it late, then all the; "he's too old, what will he be like in 4 years time" questions immediately flip over to the Traitor, & where do the right wing media go with that ?

I'd like to see Joe being honest & saying that the Presidency is an immense task for anyone, & that while he is proud of the work he has done, there is much more to be done, & it needs someone who can look forward to two terms in office, & he just can't guarantee that, & so he had decided to pass the torch to the younger generation, & let his VP choose her own running mate, to continue the good work.

Biden has the chance to show that not all Political careers end in failure, by taking the patriotic option, & ending on a high, & making sure that he isn't the, last President of the United States of America !

That would be the elegant and logical solution...

so, being the US, no chance it will prevail over ego.

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 10:31 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:59 pm

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:40 pm If they're going to make the changes they need to do it bloody quickly, to avoid issues around state ballot dates.

It depends.

If Biden leaves it late, then all the; "he's too old, what will he be like in 4 years time" questions immediately flip over to the Traitor, & where do the right wing media go with that ?

I'd like to see Joe being honest & saying that the Presidency is an immense task for anyone, & that while he is proud of the work he has done, there is much more to be done, & it needs someone who can look forward to two terms in office, & he just can't guarantee that, & so he had decided to pass the torch to the younger generation, & let his VP choose her own running mate, to continue the good work.

Biden has the chance to show that not all Political careers end in failure, by taking the patriotic option, & ending on a high, & making sure that he isn't the, last President of the United States of America !

That would be the elegant and logical solution...

so, being the US, no chance it will prevail over ego.

I don't see Biden being completely inflexible; I think it just needs the right person to pitch the case to him, to see him change course, but the clock is ticking, & there are too many people surrounding Politicians who are just yes men, & will never say anything but what the Politician wants to hear, & right now Biden wants to hear that he can recover from the debate fuck up, & that is just a lie.

I guess having Clooney come out and publicly call for him to stand aside is a pretty clear sign the machine behind him is shifting gears. The clock IS ticking though and they need to be decisive...

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:51 pm

Kiwias wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:08 am

Enzedder wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:21 am
For all that, with his team he is still miles ahead of Trump.

This, over and over and over again. It is utterly mind-boggling that 40%+ of Americans support the Orange Buffoon.

That statement shows a complete lack of understanding of your typical American.

We are talking about the candidate who failed to gain a majority of the popular vote in two successive presidential election, right? Because his life is a series of acts running contrary to the values widely claimed to be core to the American ideal and enough Americans feel that way.

But I guess you are referring to the core on either side of the spectrum who will vote for whatever candidate put up by their party, because they are voting not for a candidate but for a party.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:59 pm

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:40 pm If they're going to make the changes they need to do it bloody quickly, to avoid issues around state ballot dates.

It depends.

If Biden leaves it late, then all the; "he's too old, what will he be like in 4 years time" questions immediately flip over to the Traitor, & where do the right wing media go with that ?

I'd like to see Joe being honest & saying that the Presidency is an immense task for anyone, & that while he is proud of the work he has done, there is much more to be done, & it needs someone who can look forward to two terms in office, & he just can't guarantee that, & so he had decided to pass the torch to the younger generation, & let his VP choose her own running mate, to continue the good work.

Biden has the chance to show that not all Political careers end in failure, by taking the patriotic option, & ending on a high, & making sure that he isn't the, last President of the United States of America !

A very elegant solution to a very real problem. Unfortunately, it seems highly unlikely to happen.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 10:02 pm

Calculon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:22 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:46 pm

Getting ready for the sentencing hearing after he's found guilty of rape no doubt !

"You Honour, my client is a reformed man ......"

Or maybe so he can appeal better to, and grift more off Evangelical Yanks who lap up his Biden is evil and Trump is our saviour shtick

The Yanks don't have the least clue who the fuck he is; he's a UK only "celeb"

I've not exactly followed his career but if he's not well known in the States he seems to be working hard to become so. millions of followers on YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, a regular on Fox News and other Yank entertainment shows. All the time espousing MAGA talking points. Becoming Evangelical most likely helps his brand image with these folks

Kiwias wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 11:26 pm
We are talking about the candidate who failed to gain a majority of the popular vote in two successive presidential election, right? Because his life is a series of acts running contrary to the values widely claimed to be core to the American ideal and enough Americans feel that way.

But I guess you are referring to the core on either side of the spectrum who will vote for whatever candidate put up by their party, because they are voting not for a candidate but for a party.

The reverse in many ways. It was the Yanks who moved politics into personality and away from purpose. Something the UK adopted with Blair and now it will never escape from.

And the reason your statement "who failed to gain a majority of the popular vote" is only because vast swathes of the electorate don't vote because they are effectively disenfranchised.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:29 am

Kiwias wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 11:26 pm
We are talking about the candidate who failed to gain a majority of the popular vote in two successive presidential election, right? Because his life is a series of acts running contrary to the values widely claimed to be core to the American ideal and enough Americans feel that way.

But I guess you are referring to the core on either side of the spectrum who will vote for whatever candidate put up by their party, because they are voting not for a candidate but for a party.

The reverse in many ways. It was the Yanks who moved politics into personality and away from purpose. Something the UK adopted with Blair and now it will never escape from.

And the reason your statement "who failed to gain a majority of the popular vote" is only because vast swathes of the electorate don't vote because they are effectively disenfranchised.

The Dems should be working their arses off trying to swing those inactive votes their way.

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2024 5:48 am The Dems should be working their arses off trying to swing those inactive votes their way.

100% this. If they ever managed to mobilise the Hispanic and black votes, the Republicans probably could never win another election.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:59 pm

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:40 pm If they're going to make the changes they need to do it bloody quickly, to avoid issues around state ballot dates.

It depends.

If Biden leaves it late, then all the; "he's too old, what will he be like in 4 years time" questions immediately flip over to the Traitor, & where do the right wing media go with that ?

I'd like to see Joe being honest & saying that the Presidency is an immense task for anyone, & that while he is proud of the work he has done, there is much more to be done, & it needs someone who can look forward to two terms in office, & he just can't guarantee that, & so he had decided to pass the torch to the younger generation, & let his VP choose her own running mate, to continue the good work.

Biden has the chance to show that not all Political careers end in failure, by taking the patriotic option, & ending on a high, & making sure that he isn't the, last President of the United States of America !

There is a certain elegance to it, but the trouble is that if he is made the official nominee and then tries to drop out, it could mean the automatic loss of certain states due to state legislation around changing names on ballots.

Read elsewhere, but I think it was Nevada, Georgia, Wisconsin and Michigan that were highlighted as examples.

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:27 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:47 pm

And yet Biden is working hard to undermine any claims he might have for being a decent person.

I would say I've not had to face, if on a much , much smaller scale, the slide into irrelevancy (or maybe I have and just don't know it) but the shift from no malarkey to no recollection isn't about him, maybe for him and Jill it's about him, but for everyone else it's about the USA/world and he's failing them/us. The DNC have months to resolve this, if they really want to claim it's beyond them they're not fit for office

The weight of responsibility and expectation that comes with the role he's in are entirely relevant factors in his performance, but not in determining his character. You seem to be attaching your own emotional agenda to your definition of decency in this case.

Anyone working for Trump falls naturally into a category of people that doesn't get labelled as being appropriate

Haha... the ironing is delicious!

Trump rushed off stage at Pennsylvania rally as loud noises heard

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd1d31jeyzlo