NPR

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:36 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:29 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:15 pm Darge is outplaying Watson (and pretty much every 7 I've seen this year) he starts week 1 Vs England right?

I wouldn't think so. Although it should be a decision that the staff think long and hard about.

This is the bit where international selection doesn't always pick the player in the best form even if there is a strong case. Watson will have enormous credit in the bank with the coaching staff.

In a weird way the called off festive games hurt Watson as he needs game time and Darge as he could have emphatically shown he deserves the international jersey. Same could be said Bradbury v Fagerson, I'm not sure GT will pick Bradbury despite his form deserving it.

Agree re Watson and credit in the bank.

By the same reasoning I disagree about Bradbury and think he’s a shoo in, no one else has much credit and he has been fantastic

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:10 pm Watson isn’t getting dropped folks. Player of the Championship last year, hasn’t missed a tackle for Scotland in over two years.

Darge will play v Italy.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:40 pm I thought Watson was just starting to show glimpses of form yesterday for the first time since the Lions and injury, there are a couple of games at least before the 6N opener, I’d like Toonie to be picking from a fully fit and in form squad, having said that both Darge and Crosbie are biting at Watson’s heels.

For me Bradbury has to start at 8, Crosbie offers another lineout option whilst Darge and Watson are very similar players, they would both be playing at scrum half for some lineouts, I’m not sure I’ve seen Crosbie used that way.
Fagerson could well play in the 7 shirt.

Ritchie is my first name on the teamsheet every week, the guy is a machine.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:10 pm Watson isn’t getting dropped folks. Player of the Championship last year, hasn’t missed a tackle for Scotland in over two years.

Darge will play v Italy.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:21 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:10 pm Watson isn’t getting dropped folks. Player of the Championship last year, hasn’t missed a tackle for Scotland in over two years.

Darge will play v Italy.

If he doesn't play Vs England he won't play Vs Italy. Even Vs Italy we don't experiment as it's the only "must win" game we play.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:41 pm I tweeted yesterday that it’s only Scotland fans who worry about having two Test-class players fighting for a jersey. Other teams regard this as a good thing. The reason we don’t is that we are accustomed to only having a handful of truly class players, and if two play in the same position it makes it harder to get both onto the pitch. Hopefully we can get past this.

Same thing happens in the football - our two best players are both left backs. Though they do seem to have found a way to accommodate both of them!

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:21 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:41 pm I tweeted yesterday that it’s only Scotland fans who worry about having two Test-class players fighting for a jersey. Other teams regard this as a good thing. The reason we don’t is that we are accustomed to only having a handful of truly class players, and if two play in the same position it makes it harder to get both onto the pitch. Hopefully we can get past this.

Same thing happens in the football - our two best players are both left backs. Though they do seem to have found a way to accommodate both of them!

I don't think people are worrying about it. It's the first genuinely interesting selection debate we can have about one of our best players. Realistically nobody is challenging Hogg, Duhan, Price, Z Fagerson, Russell and co. And nobody really ever challenges the really good players we've had.

Maybe Schoeman and Sutherland.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:41 pm I tweeted yesterday that it’s only Scotland fans who worry about having two Test-class players fighting for a jersey. Other teams regard this as a good thing. The reason we don’t is that we are accustomed to only having a handful of truly class players, and if two play in the same position it makes it harder to get both onto the pitch. Hopefully we can get past this.

Same thing happens in the football - our two best players are both left backs. Though they do seem to have found a way to accommodate both of them!

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:50 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:21 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:41 pm I tweeted yesterday that it’s only Scotland fans who worry about having two Test-class players fighting for a jersey. Other teams regard this as a good thing. The reason we don’t is that we are accustomed to only having a handful of truly class players, and if two play in the same position it makes it harder to get both onto the pitch. Hopefully we can get past this.

Same thing happens in the football - our two best players are both left backs. Though they do seem to have found a way to accommodate both of them!

I don't think people are worrying about it. It's the first genuinely interesting selection debate we can have about one of our best players. Realistically nobody is challenging Hogg, Duhan, Price, Z Fagerson, Russell and co. And nobody really ever challenges the really good players we've had.

Maybe Schoeman and Sutherland.

I'd start Nel over Fagerson. May as well throw a hand grenade in there for gits and shiggles.

robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:26 am

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:50 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:21 pm

I don't think people are worrying about it. It's the first genuinely interesting selection debate we can have about one of our best players. Realistically nobody is challenging Hogg, Duhan, Price, Z Fagerson, Russell and co. And nobody really ever challenges the really good players we've had.

Maybe Schoeman and Sutherland.

I'd start Nel over Fagerson. May as well throw a hand grenade in there for gits and shiggles.

Me too actually. Fagerson's not as good in the scrum and is a bit of liability, discipline-wise.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:49 am Before we get too carried away about Darge, club form does not always translate to international games. Darge would not be the first player to explode onto the scene and then not fulfil the high hopes of him, nor the first to look fantastic at club level and not make the step up to international.

He hope he fulfils the expectations of him, but at the moment he has tremendous potential as a test player, he has to fulfil that potential before we can start talking about him in the same breath as Watson.

Which is a chicken and egg situation. We can't be certain that he is good enough to replace Watson until he replaces Watson.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:51 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:41 pm I tweeted yesterday that it’s only Scotland fans who worry about having two Test-class players fighting for a jersey. Other teams regard this as a good thing. The reason we don’t is that we are accustomed to only having a handful of truly class players, and if two play in the same position it makes it harder to get both onto the pitch. Hopefully we can get past this.

Same thing happens in the football - our two best players are both left backs. Though they do seem to have found a way to accommodate both of them!

*probably three now, the young lad playing in Serie A is also a left back.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:53 am

weegie01 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:49 am Before we get too carried away about Darge, club form does not always translate to international games. Darge would not be the first player to explode onto the scene and then not fulfil the high hopes of him, nor the first to look fantastic at club level and not make the step up to international.

He hope he fulfils the expectations of him, but at the moment he has tremendous potential as a test player, he has to fulfil that potential before we can start talking about him in the same breath as Watson.

Which is a chicken and egg situation. We can't be certain that he is good enough to replace Watson until he replaces Watson.

And the Glasgow fans were sayung similar things about Tom Gordon a couple of seasons back.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:53 am

weegie01 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:49 am Before we get too carried away about Darge, club form does not always translate to international games. Darge would not be the first player to explode onto the scene and then not fulfil the high hopes of him, nor the first to look fantastic at club level and not make the step up to international.

He hope he fulfils the expectations of him, but at the moment he has tremendous potential as a test player, he has to fulfil that potential before we can start talking about him in the same breath as Watson.

Which is a chicken and egg situation. We can't be certain that he is good enough to replace Watson until he replaces Watson.

And the Glasgow fans were sayung similar things about Tom Gordon a couple of seasons back.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:59 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:53 am

weegie01 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:49 am Before we get too carried away about Darge, club form does not always translate to international games. Darge would not be the first player to explode onto the scene and then not fulfil the high hopes of him, nor the first to look fantastic at club level and not make the step up to international.

He hope he fulfils the expectations of him, but at the moment he has tremendous potential as a test player, he has to fulfil that potential before we can start talking about him in the same breath as Watson.

Which is a chicken and egg situation. We can't be certain that he is good enough to replace Watson until he replaces Watson.

And the Glasgow fans were sayung similar things about Tom Gordon a couple of seasons back.

After I'd made the post, the same thought occurred to me.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:26 am Just for the sake of it lets say our first XV is currently as follows

Sutherland, McInally, Fagerson, Gray, Cummings, Ritchie, Watson, Fagerson
Price, Russell, vdM, Johnson, Harris, Graham, Hogg.


Sutherland apparently got sent off yesterday, so he is in doubt for the first test v England, Schoeman and Kebble will deputise, no problem there.
Rambo looked good at the weekend, but only lasted the first half iirc. Turner is playing well, Brown is back, I like Cherry as a player, Ashman started for Sale - good enough
Nel is still doing it, though I have concerns about his puff for international rugby these days, Berghan is still injured - we are light here.
Craig si still crocked I think, but Hodgson goes from strength to strength, Gilchrist could start ahead of either of those I picked, he is playing very well at the moment, Sykes is the coming man, good depth at lock.
Crosbie, Bradbury, Darge, Bayliss - back row is fine.

There is a drop off from Price, Horne has gone backwards, I haven't seen the Quins laddie whose name escapes me for the moment, Vellacott is a particular type of player, he injects insane pace into the game but in fact has also shown a bit of control in his last couple of outings. Charlie Shiel is yet to kick on to the next level, Pyrgos looked good recently and won't let anyone down, Dobie is still raw but is very talented.
Behind Finn, Hastings will still be second choice, is there room on the bench for both him and Kinghorn? Kinghorn covers the back three plus 10 now, I have every confidence that he can repeat his club form at 10 on the big stage. On a 6-2 bench split his versatility would be very appealing. Thompson is very consistent, I think we are fine at 10.
I don't think Redpath is back yet, is he? Lang is playing very well but looks to be made of glass. Up to now I have thought of Chris Dean as an excellent league player, but not quite at the next level, but on Saturday he looked fantastic, everything he did was classy, he just looked to have time on the ball and he passed beautifully off both sides. Tuipolotu had a stormer in the 13 jersey on Saturday evening.
Mark Bennett is playing some of his best rugby right now, Taylor is injured again, sadly I think that's it for him in an international jersey.
Otherwise I think we're okay in the centres.

Evergreen Sean Maitland will still be in the squad I imagine, Kinghorn as mentioned covers all three back positions, I think Hoyland will miss this 6N unfortunately, he was playing so well too. Hastings also covers full back, as does Darcy Graham.
Judo's Byron McGuigan could make the squad, which leaves only Huw Jones, I haven't watched Quins this season, but I haven't heard great things about Jones so far.

Ah, Scott Steele, I remembered just in time


edit - Kyle Steyn will be in the squad too,

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:07 am Whilst I agree he is progressing, I wouldn't have Kinghorn anywhere near covering 10 for the 6N.

Between him and Hastings they cover pretty much everywhere don't they? Think I'd prefer a 5/3 split anyway.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:14 am I'd seriously consider George Turner as starting hooker for the 6N with McInally/Brown/Cherry/Ashman as potential back ups - absolutely no worries there.

It's amazing that we essentially have no worries about a thin squad for any position at the moment. Even a few seasons back when we were starting to say there was unprecedented talent in the squad, we had our issues for some shirts. Not anymore. Cue a full-on covid assault, ill-timed red cards and other assorted injuries in the next few weeks, obviously, but for now - we're dancing. We're still not beating Ireland, mind.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:15 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:07 am Whilst I agree he is progressing, I wouldn't have Kinghorn anywhere near covering 10 for the 6N.

I would, and although it's really only a "break glass in case of emergency" scenario right now, I'd take that over Hogg covering ten in that circumstance.

Between him and Hastings they cover pretty much everywhere don't they? Think I'd prefer a 5/3 split anyway.

Yes, but there are horses for courses situations when you pick 6 forrits on the bench, it was a hypothetical, I don't see anything other than 5/3 splits for the coming games, with potentially the Ireland game being 6/2

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:21 am

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:14 am I'd seriously consider George Turner as starting hooker for the 6N with McInally/Brown/Cherry/Ashman as potential back ups - absolutely no worries there.

It's amazing that we essentially have no worries about a thin squad for any position at the moment. Even a few seasons back when we were starting to say there was unprecedented talent in the squad, we had our issues for some shirts. Not anymore. Cue a full-on covid assault, ill-timed red cards and other assorted injuries in the next few weeks, obviously, but for now - we're dancing. We're still not beating Ireland, mind.

My concern with Turner is solely on his darts, Cherry or Ashman are probably our best throwers, but neither of them are ahead of the others in terms of overall hooker play.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:22 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:15 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:07 am Whilst I agree he is progressing, I wouldn't have Kinghorn anywhere near covering 10 for the 6N.

I would, and although it's really only a "break glass in case of emergency" scenario right now, I'd take that over Hogg covering ten in that circumstance.

Between him and Hastings they cover pretty much everywhere don't they? Think I'd prefer a 5/3 split anyway.

Yes, but there are horses for courses situations when you pick 6 forrits on the bench, it was a hypothetical, I don't see anything other than 5/3 splits for the coming games, with potentially the Ireland game being 6/2

oh god yes, I'd rather have him than Hogg at 10! I just think Hastings is so far ahead as a 10, and can cover 12 and 15, that you have to have him in the squad. I wouldn't like to go into a game with Kinghorn as our back up 10.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:30 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:22 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:15 am

I would, and although it's really only a "break glass in case of emergency" scenario right now, I'd take that over Hogg covering ten in that circumstance.



Yes, but there are horses for courses situations when you pick 6 forrits on the bench, it was a hypothetical, I don't see anything other than 5/3 splits for the coming games, with potentially the Ireland game being 6/2

oh god yes, I'd rather have him than Hogg at 10! I just think Hastings is so far ahead as a 10, and can cover 12 and 15, that you have to have him in the squad. I wouldn't like to go into a game with Kinghorn as our back up 10.

What I'm talking about is having Kinghorn as Hastings' back up for the moment, but by this time next year, who knows where Kinghorn will be in the pecking order?

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:26 am Just for the sake of it lets say our first XV is currently as follows

Sutherland, McInally, Fagerson, Gray, Cummings, Ritchie, Watson, Fagerson
Price, Russell, vdM, Johnson, Harris, Graham, Hogg.


Sutherland apparently got sent off yesterday, so he is in doubt for the first test v England, Schoeman and Kebble will deputise, no problem there.
Rambo looked good at the weekend, but only lasted the first half iirc. Turner is playing well, Brown is back, I like Cherry as a player, Ashman started for Sale - good enough
Nel is still doing it, though I have concerns about his puff for international rugby these days, Berghan is still injured - we are light here.
Craig si still crocked I think, but Hodgson goes from strength to strength, Gilchrist could start ahead of either of those I picked, he is playing very well at the moment, Sykes is the coming man, good depth at lock.
Crosbie, Bradbury, Darge, Bayliss - back row is fine.

There is a drop off from Price, Horne has gone backwards, I haven't seen the Quins laddie whose name escapes me for the moment, Vellacott is a particular type of player, he injects insane pace into the game but in fact has also shown a bit of control in his last couple of outings. Charlie Shiel is yet to kick on to the next level, Pyrgos looked good recently and won't let anyone down, Dobie is still raw but is very talented.
Behind Finn, Hastings will still be second choice, is there room on the bench for both him and Kinghorn? Kinghorn covers the back three plus 10 now, I have every confidence that he can repeat his club form at 10 on the big stage. On a 6-2 bench split his versatility would be very appealing. Thompson is very consistent, I think we are fine at 10.
I don't think Redpath is back yet, is he? Lang is playing very well but looks to be made of glass. Up to now I have thought of Chris Dean as an excellent league player, but not quite at the next level, but on Saturday he looked fantastic, everything he did was classy, he just looked to have time on the ball and he passed beautifully off both sides. Tuipolotu had a stormer in the 13 jersey on Saturday evening.
Mark Bennett is playing some of his best rugby right now, Taylor is injured again, sadly I think that's it for him in an international jersey.
Otherwise I think we're okay in the centres.

Evergreen Sean Maitland will still be in the squad I imagine, Kinghorn as mentioned covers all three back positions, I think Hoyland will miss this 6N unfortunately, he was playing so well too. Hastings also covers full back, as does Darcy Graham.
Judo's Byron McGuigan could make the squad, which leaves only Huw Jones, I haven't watched Quins this season, but I haven't heard great things about Jones so far.

Ah, Scott Steele, I remembered just in time


edit - Kyle Steyn will be in the squad too,

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:08 am

weegie01 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:59 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:53 am

And the Glasgow fans were sayung similar things about Tom Gordon a couple of seasons back.

After I'd made the post, the same thought occurred to me.

Current Darge is a level above Gordon back then. But I assume Watson will be 7 for the Calcutta Cup and rightly so. I'd be happy if Darge took the 20 shirt or if he was included in a 6/2 split bench. Give him 20 minutes here and there and see if he can replicate club form.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:11 am The tighthead situation is bothering me.

Who would be our third choice there since Berghan is not available? I keep coming back to Bhatti and Dell backing up the loosehead side and Kebble moving over to number 3, which makes Toonie's experimentation there in November seem entirely sensible.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:21 am

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:14 am I'd seriously consider George Turner as starting hooker for the 6N with McInally/Brown/Cherry/Ashman as potential back ups - absolutely no worries there.

It's amazing that we essentially have no worries about a thin squad for any position at the moment. Even a few seasons back when we were starting to say there was unprecedented talent in the squad, we had our issues for some shirts. Not anymore. Cue a full-on covid assault, ill-timed red cards and other assorted injuries in the next few weeks, obviously, but for now - we're dancing. We're still not beating Ireland, mind.

My concern with Turner is solely on his darts, Cherry or Ashman are probably our best throwers, but neither of them are ahead of the others in terms of overall hooker play.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:30 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:22 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:15 am

I would, and although it's really only a "break glass in case of emergency" scenario right now, I'd take that over Hogg covering ten in that circumstance.



Yes, but there are horses for courses situations when you pick 6 forrits on the bench, it was a hypothetical, I don't see anything other than 5/3 splits for the coming games, with potentially the Ireland game being 6/2

oh god yes, I'd rather have him than Hogg at 10! I just think Hastings is so far ahead as a 10, and can cover 12 and 15, that you have to have him in the squad. I wouldn't like to go into a game with Kinghorn as our back up 10.

What I'm talking about is having Kinghorn as Hastings' back up for the moment, but by this time next year, who knows where Kinghorn will be in the pecking order?

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:40 am Just seen the Sutherland red. You'd hope that would be at the lower end for weeks off. Hope so, I see his club have 3 games between now at the Calcutta Cup.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:15 pm For tighthead, the worry about Nel is obviously the whole what-if-Fagerson-comes-off-in-the-first-five-minutes deal.

I've never really seen Nel fail to last the pace, but if that's the worry, then you start with him, play him for forty and bring Fagerson on for the second half. If Nel is injured early, Fagerson can last for 70.

But I think Townsend will put Kebble at TH bench spot, unless McCallum does astonishing things in the next few weeks.