NPR

C69 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 3:06 pm May as well close the betting down on Trump being the next Potus.
America does not deserve choice of Biden or Trump.

inactionman wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 5:22 pm

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 5:16 pm

inactionman wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 2:30 pm The classified documents case has apparently been thrown out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz5rpdrxevro

Seems to be quite a legalesy justification:



Not that it has any bearing whatsoever, I'm sure, but Judge Aileen Cannon was appointed in Florida by Donald Trump.

Be surprised if the DoJ doesn't appeal the decision before the end of the day.

Yep, most US news that I've seen have all said that an appeal is pretty much guaranteed, and most queried the logic - even if not the disingenuity - of the judge.

At least it'll delay everything until after the election, which is nice. Purely coincidental.

Niegs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:45 am Will vote for him though he doesn't give a fuck about them in the most extreme of cases, even. America's rabid two-party team-rooted politics in a nutshell.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:23 am Labour party that haemorrhaged Muslim votes. Clearly Islamists. This kid's another live one.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:23 am Labour party that haemorrhaged Muslim votes. Clearly Islamists. This kid's another live one.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:23 am Labour party that haemorrhaged Muslim votes. Clearly Islamists. This kid's another live one.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:18 am I mean. More than anything, it's just a shit joke.

A career in stand up probably not on the cards.

He looks like the kind of guy whose backbone left him a long time ago. He's seen a route to the big prize and is going to ride it as long as he can. Farage and Truss out there too lapping up the sloppy seconds

What a time to be alive.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:18 am Farage and Truss out there too lapping up the sloppy seconds

inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:28 am

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:18 am I mean. More than anything, it's just a shit joke.

A career in stand up probably not on the cards.

He looks like the kind of guy whose backbone left him a long time ago. He's seen a route to the big prize and is going to ride it as long as he can. Farage and Truss out there too lapping up the sloppy seconds

What a time to be alive.

I'm never sure whether the likes of MTG, Boebart etc are truly stupid or whether they're bright (and highly cynical) people who just know how to work an audience. Certainly Trump is a sharp operator.

In that sense, there's likely a bunch of people chasing their coattails who may have thought they just need to say stupid shit and spray crap and bile and act totally in their own self-interest (George Santos is a case in point) in order to succeed.

Oxbow wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:30 am

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:18 am Farage and Truss out there too lapping up the sloppy seconds

That's put me right off me elevenses

inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:28 am

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:18 am I mean. More than anything, it's just a shit joke.

A career in stand up probably not on the cards.

He looks like the kind of guy whose backbone left him a long time ago. He's seen a route to the big prize and is going to ride it as long as he can. Farage and Truss out there too lapping up the sloppy seconds

What a time to be alive.

I'm never sure whether the likes of MTG, Boebart etc are truly stupid or whether they're bright (and highly cynical) people who just know how to work an audience. Certainly Trump is a sharp operator.

In that sense, there's likely a bunch of people chasing their coattails who may have thought they just need to say stupid shit and spray crap and bile and act totally in their own self-interest (George Santos is a case in point) in order to succeed.

inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:11 am

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:23 am Labour party that haemorrhaged Muslim votes. Clearly Islamists. This kid's another live one.

That islamist Church of England/Church of Scotland.

It's always interesting to try to reverse-engineer what a US politician is getting at, assuming there's ulterior motive to most of what they say, but I'm really struggling here.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 10:28 am

inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:11 am

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:23 am Labour party that haemorrhaged Muslim votes. Clearly Islamists. This kid's another live one.

That islamist Church of England/Church of Scotland.

It's always interesting to try to reverse-engineer what a US politician is getting at, assuming there's ulterior motive to most of what they say, but I'm really struggling here.

We can't forget that the dark money of the American political right is increasingly spreading it's tendrils to the UK and there's more and more an attempt to build a trans-Atlantic right beyond the mutual adoption of neo-liberalism. It behooves the spenders and their ideology to undermine and discredit parties in all countries who would resist their attempts to realise their worldview. Whether it's abortion rights, net zero targets, workers rights, clamping down on parasite capitalism (water companies!) and so on even this fairly non-radical version of the Labour party is at the very least perceived to be a threat rather than an ally in the way that the loony version of the Tory party was.

The whole Khan has turned London into Islamistan thing was basic sow dischord and division in the west stuff, but it's a mere hop, skip and a jump from identifying him as a Labour politician to then tarring all of Labour with being Islamists.

You might also be able to broadly tie it in with strong man dictator stuff - 'look even the UK has been taken over, Trump is the only hope to protect the US' - and the evangelical christo-fascists who actively want the end times to come so that the second coming occurs. The idea that bastions of Western civilisation are falling certainly fuels that narrative. Such people are wierdly reminiscent of the millenarianists that was so prominent during the Reformation, a period of great, bloody sectarian violence. America's political divisions are showing every sign of being as deep-seated and irreconcilable as sectarian divisions have been through histroy.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 10:28 am
The whole Khan has turned London into Islamistan thing was basic sow dischord and division in the west stuff, but it's a mere hop, skip and a jump from identifying him as a Labour politician to then tarring all of Labour with being Islamists.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:15 am Didn't Vance himself once refer to Trump as "America's Hitler"?

inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:16 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:15 am Didn't Vance himself once refer to Trump as "America's Hitler"?

He's an opportunist.

I'd imagine the dems have got the tapes (no, not those tapes) already lined up

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:09 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 10:28 am

inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:11 am

That islamist Church of England/Church of Scotland.

It's always interesting to try to reverse-engineer what a US politician is getting at, assuming there's ulterior motive to most of what they say, but I'm really struggling here.

We can't forget that the dark money of the American political right is increasingly spreading it's tendrils to the UK and there's more and more an attempt to build a trans-Atlantic right beyond the mutual adoption of neo-liberalism. It behooves the spenders and their ideology to undermine and discredit parties in all countries who would resist their attempts to realise their worldview. Whether it's abortion rights, net zero targets, workers rights, clamping down on parasite capitalism (water companies!) and so on even this fairly non-radical version of the Labour party is at the very least perceived to be a threat rather than an ally in the way that the loony version of the Tory party was.

The whole Khan has turned London into Islamistan thing was basic sow dischord and division in the west stuff, but it's a mere hop, skip and a jump from identifying him as a Labour politician to then tarring all of Labour with being Islamists.

You might also be able to broadly tie it in with strong man dictator stuff - 'look even the UK has been taken over, Trump is the only hope to protect the US' - and the evangelical christo-fascists who actively want the end times to come so that the second coming occurs. The idea that bastions of Western civilisation are falling certainly fuels that narrative. Such people are wierdly reminiscent of the millenarianists that was so prominent during the Reformation, a period of great, bloody sectarian violence. America's political divisions are showing every sign of being as deep-seated and irreconcilable as sectarian divisions have been through histroy.

Good post, without resorting to some of the hyperbole that’s fueling a lot of this nonsense whilst thinking it’s fighting it.

I’ve had a bit of reflection over the last couple of days on this. My immediate reaction to Republicans coming out and saying “the left are causing this” was just to laugh. But actually a lot of the language used across the media and by commentators (and on here) is just fuelling the fire.

That’s of course not to say that the right are clean, in reality they are worse, probably quite a bit so. But words like facist, Nazi, Hitler etc are thrown about and it just ends up diluting the actual message. Just this morning I read in the Guardian that MTG was “far right”, and that’s another phrase that has lost its real, deplorable meaning. She’s an utter cunt, but she’s not far right in the historical sense that was meant to demonise and scare us all, rightly.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:00 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:09 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 10:28 am

We can't forget that the dark money of the American political right is increasingly spreading it's tendrils to the UK and there's more and more an attempt to build a trans-Atlantic right beyond the mutual adoption of neo-liberalism. It behooves the spenders and their ideology to undermine and discredit parties in all countries who would resist their attempts to realise their worldview. Whether it's abortion rights, net zero targets, workers rights, clamping down on parasite capitalism (water companies!) and so on even this fairly non-radical version of the Labour party is at the very least perceived to be a threat rather than an ally in the way that the loony version of the Tory party was.

The whole Khan has turned London into Islamistan thing was basic sow dischord and division in the west stuff, but it's a mere hop, skip and a jump from identifying him as a Labour politician to then tarring all of Labour with being Islamists.

You might also be able to broadly tie it in with strong man dictator stuff - 'look even the UK has been taken over, Trump is the only hope to protect the US' - and the evangelical christo-fascists who actively want the end times to come so that the second coming occurs. The idea that bastions of Western civilisation are falling certainly fuels that narrative. Such people are wierdly reminiscent of the millenarianists that was so prominent during the Reformation, a period of great, bloody sectarian violence. America's political divisions are showing every sign of being as deep-seated and irreconcilable as sectarian divisions have been through histroy.

Good post, without resorting to some of the hyperbole that’s fueling a lot of this nonsense whilst thinking it’s fighting it.

I’ve had a bit of reflection over the last couple of days on this. My immediate reaction to Republicans coming out and saying “the left are causing this” was just to laugh. But actually a lot of the language used across the media and by commentators (and on here) is just fuelling the fire.

That’s of course not to say that the right are clean, in reality they are worse, probably quite a bit so. But words like facist, Nazi, Hitler etc are thrown about and it just ends up diluting the actual message. Just this morning I read in the Guardian that MTG was “far right”, and that’s another phrase that has lost its real, deplorable meaning. She’s an utter cunt, but she’s not far right in the historical sense that was meant to demonise and scare us all, rightly.

So the alternative is to let them have their way unopposed?

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:09 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 10:28 am

inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 9:11 am

That islamist Church of England/Church of Scotland.

It's always interesting to try to reverse-engineer what a US politician is getting at, assuming there's ulterior motive to most of what they say, but I'm really struggling here.

We can't forget that the dark money of the American political right is increasingly spreading it's tendrils to the UK and there's more and more an attempt to build a trans-Atlantic right beyond the mutual adoption of neo-liberalism. It behooves the spenders and their ideology to undermine and discredit parties in all countries who would resist their attempts to realise their worldview. Whether it's abortion rights, net zero targets, workers rights, clamping down on parasite capitalism (water companies!) and so on even this fairly non-radical version of the Labour party is at the very least perceived to be a threat rather than an ally in the way that the loony version of the Tory party was.

The whole Khan has turned London into Islamistan thing was basic sow dischord and division in the west stuff, but it's a mere hop, skip and a jump from identifying him as a Labour politician to then tarring all of Labour with being Islamists.

You might also be able to broadly tie it in with strong man dictator stuff - 'look even the UK has been taken over, Trump is the only hope to protect the US' - and the evangelical christo-fascists who actively want the end times to come so that the second coming occurs. The idea that bastions of Western civilisation are falling certainly fuels that narrative. Such people are wierdly reminiscent of the millenarianists that was so prominent during the Reformation, a period of great, bloody sectarian violence. America's political divisions are showing every sign of being as deep-seated and irreconcilable as sectarian divisions have been through histroy.

Good post, without resorting to some of the hyperbole that’s fueling a lot of this nonsense whilst thinking it’s fighting it.

I’ve had a bit of reflection over the last couple of days on this. My immediate reaction to Republicans coming out and saying “the left are causing this” was just to laugh. But actually a lot of the language used across the media and by commentators (and on here) is just fuelling the fire.

That’s of course not to say that the right are clean, in reality they are worse, probably quite a bit so. But words like facist, Nazi, Hitler etc are thrown about and it just ends up diluting the actual message. Just this morning I read in the Guardian that MTG was “far right”, and that’s another phrase that has lost its real, deplorable meaning. She’s an utter cunt, but she’s not far right in the historical sense that was meant to demonise and scare us all, rightly.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:14 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:09 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 10:28 am

We can't forget that the dark money of the American political right is increasingly spreading it's tendrils to the UK and there's more and more an attempt to build a trans-Atlantic right beyond the mutual adoption of neo-liberalism. It behooves the spenders and their ideology to undermine and discredit parties in all countries who would resist their attempts to realise their worldview. Whether it's abortion rights, net zero targets, workers rights, clamping down on parasite capitalism (water companies!) and so on even this fairly non-radical version of the Labour party is at the very least perceived to be a threat rather than an ally in the way that the loony version of the Tory party was.

The whole Khan has turned London into Islamistan thing was basic sow dischord and division in the west stuff, but it's a mere hop, skip and a jump from identifying him as a Labour politician to then tarring all of Labour with being Islamists.

You might also be able to broadly tie it in with strong man dictator stuff - 'look even the UK has been taken over, Trump is the only hope to protect the US' - and the evangelical christo-fascists who actively want the end times to come so that the second coming occurs. The idea that bastions of Western civilisation are falling certainly fuels that narrative. Such people are wierdly reminiscent of the millenarianists that was so prominent during the Reformation, a period of great, bloody sectarian violence. America's political divisions are showing every sign of being as deep-seated and irreconcilable as sectarian divisions have been through histroy.

Good post, without resorting to some of the hyperbole that’s fueling a lot of this nonsense whilst thinking it’s fighting it.

I’ve had a bit of reflection over the last couple of days on this. My immediate reaction to Republicans coming out and saying “the left are causing this” was just to laugh. But actually a lot of the language used across the media and by commentators (and on here) is just fuelling the fire.

That’s of course not to say that the right are clean, in reality they are worse, probably quite a bit so. But words like facist, Nazi, Hitler etc are thrown about and it just ends up diluting the actual message. Just this morning I read in the Guardian that MTG was “far right”, and that’s another phrase that has lost its real, deplorable meaning. She’s an utter cunt, but she’s not far right in the historical sense that was meant to demonise and scare us all, rightly.

To be honest I'm one of those on the left who thinks the American right represents a genuine threat to democracy over there* and the left response is inspired by the not unfounded fear that they're living through 1930s Germany and many understandably take a pretty staunch position on wanting to combat that. Those terms you highlight may well get tossed around a bit liberally, but with stuff like Project 25 and oh so many utterances down the years now from Trump and his supporters that attack and undermine democratic institutions, threaten worryingly authoritarian treatment for anyone that opposes them, demonisation of and refusal to engage with any but the friendliest of media, it's tough to view them as anything but a fascist threat.

There are genuine neo-Nazi and white supremacist movements that have attached themselves to the Trumpist Republican party and that's no accident. The FBI has long registered such groups as the US's primary domestic threat and they've been fully emboldened over the last several years, much more visible than they were before Trump initially ran for president. There was a march of people in Swastika tshirts through Nashville just this weekend. A lot of the current Republican party at best pander to those sorts of elements if not are actively part of them.

I think you're a bit charitable towards MTG. Like a few others, she gave tours of the Capitol to those who would end up being insurrectionists in 2020 just days beforehand. She's at the very least indulged in enabling and encouraging the erosion of trust in the judiciary and in elections, of pushing conspiracy theories and using inflammatory rhetoric in a way that makes her complicit with the far right elements. Maybe she's just power hungry and ignorant, seeing this all as her meal ticket, but at a certain point that becomes indistinguishable from active support.


*And I watch the spread of rhetoric and methodology employed over there with great nervousness.

robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:23 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:14 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:09 am

Good post, without resorting to some of the hyperbole that’s fueling a lot of this nonsense whilst thinking it’s fighting it.

I’ve had a bit of reflection over the last couple of days on this. My immediate reaction to Republicans coming out and saying “the left are causing this” was just to laugh. But actually a lot of the language used across the media and by commentators (and on here) is just fuelling the fire.

That’s of course not to say that the right are clean, in reality they are worse, probably quite a bit so. But words like facist, Nazi, Hitler etc are thrown about and it just ends up diluting the actual message. Just this morning I read in the Guardian that MTG was “far right”, and that’s another phrase that has lost its real, deplorable meaning. She’s an utter cunt, but she’s not far right in the historical sense that was meant to demonise and scare us all, rightly.

To be honest I'm one of those on the left who thinks the American right represents a genuine threat to democracy over there* and the left response is inspired by the not unfounded fear that they're living through 1930s Germany and many understandably take a pretty staunch position on wanting to combat that. Those terms you highlight may well get tossed around a bit liberally, but with stuff like Project 25 and oh so many utterances down the years now from Trump and his supporters that attack and undermine democratic institutions, threaten worryingly authoritarian treatment for anyone that opposes them, demonisation of and refusal to engage with any but the friendliest of media, it's tough to view them as anything but a fascist threat.

There are genuine neo-Nazi and white supremacist movements that have attached themselves to the Trumpist Republican party and that's no accident. The FBI has long registered such groups as the US's primary domestic threat and they've been fully emboldened over the last several years, much more visible than they were before Trump initially ran for president. There was a march of people in Swastika tshirts through Nashville just this weekend. A lot of the current Republican party at best pander to those sorts of elements if not are actively part of them.

I think you're a bit charitable towards MTG. Like a few others, she gave tours of the Capitol to those who would end up being insurrectionists in 2020 just days beforehand. She's at the very least indulged in enabling and encouraging the erosion of trust in the judiciary and in elections, of pushing conspiracy theories and using inflammatory rhetoric in a way that makes her complicit with the far right elements. Maybe she's just power hungry and ignorant, seeing this all as her meal ticket, but at a certain point that becomes indistinguishable from active support.


*And I watch the spread of rhetoric and methodology employed over there with great nervousness.

I think one problem is that nobody in the Democrat party in the US who talks about fascism and the threat to democracy actually behaves like it is true. I wouldn't expect them to tool up with weapons for a civil war or anything, but they could at least do something about Republicans packing the judiciary or perhaps not nominate a frail old man as their presidential candidate when the risks are so great.

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:04 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:00 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:09 am

Good post, without resorting to some of the hyperbole that’s fueling a lot of this nonsense whilst thinking it’s fighting it.

I’ve had a bit of reflection over the last couple of days on this. My immediate reaction to Republicans coming out and saying “the left are causing this” was just to laugh. But actually a lot of the language used across the media and by commentators (and on here) is just fuelling the fire.

That’s of course not to say that the right are clean, in reality they are worse, probably quite a bit so. But words like facist, Nazi, Hitler etc are thrown about and it just ends up diluting the actual message. Just this morning I read in the Guardian that MTG was “far right”, and that’s another phrase that has lost its real, deplorable meaning. She’s an utter cunt, but she’s not far right in the historical sense that was meant to demonise and scare us all, rightly.

So the alternative is to let them have their way unopposed?

Is this a serious post?

robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:23 pm I think one problem is that nobody in the Democrat party in the US who talks about fascism and the threat to democracy actually behaves like it is true. I wouldn't expect them to tool up with weapons for a civil war or anything, but they could at least do something about Republicans packing the judiciary or perhaps not nominate a frail old man as their presidential candidate when the risks are so great.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:13 pm By any meaningful measure, MTG is far right. She started off as a peddler of QAnon conspiracy theories, accused the democrats of being paedophiles, called Sandy Hook a false flag and 9/11 a hoax, blamed a Jewish cabal for causing wildfires ("Jewish space laser" was her), called for the execution of democrat officials (particularly Nancy Pelosi, for not funding The Wall), demanded that the USA have a Christian government, was too extreme for the explicitly far right Freedom Caucus she got kicked out of, posted edited photos of her posing with guns next to her political rivals, encouraged the insurrection while at the same time blaming antifa and BLM, regularly peddles antisemitic and anti Islamic conspiracy theories, is virulently anti immigration and frequently demonises immigrants, particularly non-white immigrants, pals around with notorious members of the far right and actual fascists, and gives speeches at conventions for the far right run by white nationalists, for which she was heavily criticised by noted left wingers Mike Pence, Mitt Romney, and Mitch McConnell.

If you don't think she's far right and don't agree with her being labeled as such, you either are blissfully ignorant of her or your personal Overton window has shifted a dangerous amount.

Niegs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 1:48 am Best account of the shooting thusfar.

I heard "Malarkey" then "Kamala, let's go, but I don't know who it was

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:13 pm By any meaningful measure, MTG is far right. She started off as a peddler of QAnon conspiracy theories, accused the democrats of being paedophiles, called Sandy Hook a false flag and 9/11 a hoax, blamed a Jewish cabal for causing wildfires ("Jewish space laser" was her), called for the execution of democrat officials (particularly Nancy Pelosi, for not funding The Wall), demanded that the USA have a Christian government, was too extreme for the explicitly far right Freedom Caucus she got kicked out of, posted edited photos of her posing with guns next to her political rivals, encouraged the insurrection while at the same time blaming antifa and BLM, regularly peddles antisemitic and anti Islamic conspiracy theories, is virulently anti immigration and frequently demonises immigrants, particularly non-white immigrants, pals around with notorious members of the far right and actual fascists, and gives speeches at conventions for the far right run by white nationalists, for which she was heavily criticised by noted left wingers Mike Pence, Mitt Romney, and Mitch McConnell.

If you don't think she's far right and don't agree with her being labeled as such, you either are blissfully ignorant of her or your personal Overton window has shifted a dangerous amount.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 8:50 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:13 pm By any meaningful measure, MTG is far right. She started off as a peddler of QAnon conspiracy theories, accused the democrats of being paedophiles, called Sandy Hook a false flag and 9/11 a hoax, blamed a Jewish cabal for causing wildfires ("Jewish space laser" was her), called for the execution of democrat officials (particularly Nancy Pelosi, for not funding The Wall), demanded that the USA have a Christian government, was too extreme for the explicitly far right Freedom Caucus she got kicked out of, posted edited photos of her posing with guns next to her political rivals, encouraged the insurrection while at the same time blaming antifa and BLM, regularly peddles antisemitic and anti Islamic conspiracy theories, is virulently anti immigration and frequently demonises immigrants, particularly non-white immigrants, pals around with notorious members of the far right and actual fascists, and gives speeches at conventions for the far right run by white nationalists, for which she was heavily criticised by noted left wingers Mike Pence, Mitt Romney, and Mitch McConnell.

If you don't think she's far right and don't agree with her being labeled as such, you either are blissfully ignorant of her or your personal Overton window has shifted a dangerous amount.

But apart from all that, what exactly makes you think she's far right?