NPR

“He’s only a sort of sex offender” , got to be one of the most bizarre hills a poster has chosen to fight on.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:53 pm He has always been gaffe prone. The stutter is what can make him seem forgetful.

Go with what he actually says, the ideas he comes out with, the responses he has: he's a mile away from Trump's braindead dribbling, let alone Reagan's senility.

I wasn't aware he had a stutter but there's clips of him just outright forgetting Barrack Obama's name (saved it by saying my old boss ), which office he was running for, where he is. And so on.

He reminds me quite a lot of George W Bush who would completely lose his train of thought and then just try to save it in often hilarious ways.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:37 pm No serious commenter would genuinely cast doubt on Biden's mental acuity, given the stammer issue. He's clearly compos mentis and a lot more coherent than many currently in Govt. He's slightly older than his opponent, but clearly in better mental health than him (or Reagan, if you want other comparisons).

It's all well and good criticising Democrat choices but perhaps targeting his record and his real weaknesses would be the way to go rather than repeating dumb Fox News talking points.

The front page of the Boston Globe (read: quite liberal) the day Harris accepted the VP nomination had a column breaking down why this might be the biggest VP pick ever. It was for this very reason.

The stammer argument you tend to see is a bit silly as that relates to an issue he had while younger which hasn't been seen in the 40 years he's spent in the public eye, and moreover does little to explain some of the frankly embarrassing, rambling answers he gave in nationally televised debates that ostensibly he would have prepared for and well understood the importance of. Plenty more examples from his rallies.

There are loads of clips on youtube compiled by Bernie and Trump and Warren and Harris and Mayor Pete supporters of these very incidents. It's not one or two faux pas taken out of context.

Read online the other day someone refer to Biden as the democrat equivalent of George W Bush and when I thought about it for a second I think that it works. He's more of a frontman than the man. No-one takes him that seriously but he's an unimposing, unthreatening nice guy who is hard to dislike.

It’s how keen he is to destroy trump in the debates that points to his sharp cognitive abilities...... nothing clearer.

Hugo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:00 pm Read online the other day someone refer to Biden as the democrat equivalent of George W Bush and when I thought about it for a second I think that it works. He's more of a frontman than the man. No-one takes him that seriously but he's an unimposing, unthreatening nice guy who is hard to dislike.

That's funny, exactly what I was just thinking.

Bush was incompetent but at least he gave us some good laughs.

Hugo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:00 pm Read online the other day someone refer to Biden as the democrat equivalent of George W Bush and when I thought about it for a second I think that it works. He's more of a frontman than the man. No-one takes him that seriously but he's an unimposing, unthreatening nice guy who is hard to dislike.

I actually do like him personally. He'd probably be more fun to have a beer with than most politicians, certainly most Democrats. He also long held the distinction of being one of the poorest members of congress, ie least corrupt, which is all the more impressive considering his home state's sole purpose is to serve as a place of incorporation.

I just think his politics are outdated and even if he's not properly senile (and I don't think he is) I think he's feeble enough at this point to be manipulated by younger, savvier ideologues. You can tell he's aware that he's slowed down and somewhat insecure about this fact. Having witnessed this with relatives that does seem to be a pattern.

Fonz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:07 pm

Hugo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:00 pm Read online the other day someone refer to Biden as the democrat equivalent of George W Bush and when I thought about it for a second I think that it works. He's more of a frontman than the man. No-one takes him that seriously but he's an unimposing, unthreatening nice guy who is hard to dislike.

I actually do like him personally. He'd probably be more fun to have a beer with than most politicians, certainly most Democrats.

I just think his politics are outdated and even if he's not properly senile (and I don't think he is) I think he's feeble enough at this point to be manipulated by younger, savvier ideologues. You can tell he's aware that he's slowed down and somewhat insecure about this fact. Having witnessed this with relatives that does seem to be a pattern.

He's not a strong candidate, but in the end, you look at the other guy, and it's a straight forward decision (isn't it?).

Fonz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:59 pmThe stammer argument you tend to see is a bit silly as that relates to an issue he had while younger which hasn't been seen in the 40 years he's spent in the public eye

You're missing the point. Just because he's not regularly stuttering doesn't mean it's not still a problem. Speech therapy can make it so you don't actively stutter, but it still impacts how you try and say words.

Here's a good read about this: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... le/602401/

A stutter does not get worse as a person ages, but trying to keep it at bay can take immense physical and mental energy. Biden talks all day to audiences both small and large. In addition to periodically stuttering or blocking on certain sounds, he appears to intentionally not stutter by switching to an alternative word—a technique called “circumlocution”—­which can yield mangled syntax. I’ve been following practically everything he’s said for months now, and sometimes what is quickly characterized as a memory lapse is indeed a stutter. As Eric Jackson, the speech pathologist, pointed out to me, during a town hall in August Biden briefly blocked on Obama, before quickly subbing in my boss. The headlines after the event? “Biden Forgets Obama’s Name.” Other times when Biden fudges a detail or loses his train of thought, it seems unrelated to stuttering, like he’s just making a mistake. The kind of mistake other candidates make too, though less frequently than he does.

"His speech problems can't be related to his stutter because he hasn't any problems for 40 years" is a very odd argument to make. Especially when it's patently untrue to begin with: the guy stutters.

His ability to grasp complex issues and provide complex answers? I don't see that as being a problem, currently, and it's genuinely absurd to raise that as big concern when you look at the alternative

Fonz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:30 pm

EnergiseR wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:19 am Fonz is one of those massive spoofers who sort of admires Trump's moxy and is sore his boy Sanders lost. So rather than but his big boy pants on and accept the loss he is schmoozing around pretending Biden rather than the massive tit Trump is the problem. It comes from the same place the riots in Trump's America are somehow Bidens problem

I did not even vote in the primaries for "my boy" this time around; you might be confusing me with Bones as he was pretty gung ho on Bernie. I do like him more than others since he correctly diagnoses the biggest issue is our country and is consistent on it, despite being wrong on a lot else, but I have little faith in anybody's ability to do anything substantive to set this country on the right path, least of all through democracy; corporate America is in charge and in the age of the internet and social media they also control the discourse. It's over.

And FFS the likes of NYT and WaPo (can't remember which) ran op-eds saying Biden's mental acuity was a question worth asking. It's not exactly controversial or a "right wing talking point" which has become the idiots' refrain.

Biden is not the problem, but affirming this path for Democratic party (which is what his election would do) isn't in the long term interest of the country. Sorry.

So you worship Donald Trump and you're a racist. [/Rinkals]

A complex issue.

notfatcat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:32 pm

Fonz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:30 pm

EnergiseR wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:19 am Fonz is one of those massive spoofers who sort of admires Trump's moxy and is sore his boy Sanders lost. So rather than but his big boy pants on and accept the loss he is schmoozing around pretending Biden rather than the massive tit Trump is the problem. It comes from the same place the riots in Trump's America are somehow Bidens problem

I did not even vote in the primaries for "my boy" this time around; you might be confusing me with Bones as he was pretty gung ho on Bernie. I do like him more than others since he correctly diagnoses the biggest issue is our country and is consistent on it, despite being wrong on a lot else, but I have little faith in anybody's ability to do anything substantive to set this country on the right path, least of all through democracy; corporate America is in charge and in the age of the internet and social media they also control the discourse. It's over.

And FFS the likes of NYT and WaPo (can't remember which) ran op-eds saying Biden's mental acuity was a question worth asking. It's not exactly controversial or a "right wing talking point" which has become the idiots' refrain.

Biden is not the problem, but affirming this path for Democratic party (which is what his election would do) isn't in the long term interest of the country. Sorry.

So you worship Donald Trump and you're a racist. [/Rinkals]

So many posters on here are just incapable of grasping nuance. Fonz's insights are invaluable* yet waved away because if you say something critical of Biden (or the Democrat party in general) you must be a secret Trump supporter. It's a shambles.

* Because a) he's an actual American voter and b) they are pretty well thought out and articulated. and C) even if you disagree with him he's unfailingly polite.

Fair enough JM, but tbf you brought up the stutter in this convo, which isn't where my concerns re: his cognitive decline arose; though granted it might be for many asking questions. For me it was the (occasional) rambling answers at debates and rallies, where it's not simply silly allegations that he forgot Obama's name, but really nonsensical answers that hardly address the question.

When you consider who will be around him, and the influences he will be subject to (hmm maybe the W comparison isnt so off...), a slower Biden will not be a moderate bulwark against the bizarre menagerie of corporatists and critical race theory zealots that are increasingly making up the party, as he would have been in his younger days. Just as a clueless Trump ultimately adhered to the GOP deregulatory small government bullshit proffered by party insiders, so might a hobbled Joe accede to the will of a bunch of people a good 3/4 of the country loathe.

notfatcat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:32 pm

Fonz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:30 pm

EnergiseR wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:19 am Fonz is one of those massive spoofers who sort of admires Trump's moxy and is sore his boy Sanders lost. So rather than but his big boy pants on and accept the loss he is schmoozing around pretending Biden rather than the massive tit Trump is the problem. It comes from the same place the riots in Trump's America are somehow Bidens problem

I did not even vote in the primaries for "my boy" this time around; you might be confusing me with Bones as he was pretty gung ho on Bernie. I do like him more than others since he correctly diagnoses the biggest issue is our country and is consistent on it, despite being wrong on a lot else, but I have little faith in anybody's ability to do anything substantive to set this country on the right path, least of all through democracy; corporate America is in charge and in the age of the internet and social media they also control the discourse. It's over.

And FFS the likes of NYT and WaPo (can't remember which) ran op-eds saying Biden's mental acuity was a question worth asking. It's not exactly controversial or a "right wing talking point" which has become the idiots' refrain.

Biden is not the problem, but affirming this path for Democratic party (which is what his election would do) isn't in the long term interest of the country. Sorry.

So you worship Donald Trump and you're a racist. [/half of America]

Fixed

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:08 pm

Fonz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:07 pm

Hugo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:00 pm Read online the other day someone refer to Biden as the democrat equivalent of George W Bush and when I thought about it for a second I think that it works. He's more of a frontman than the man. No-one takes him that seriously but he's an unimposing, unthreatening nice guy who is hard to dislike.

I actually do like him personally. He'd probably be more fun to have a beer with than most politicians, certainly most Democrats.

I just think his politics are outdated and even if he's not properly senile (and I don't think he is) I think he's feeble enough at this point to be manipulated by younger, savvier ideologues. You can tell he's aware that he's slowed down and somewhat insecure about this fact. Having witnessed this with relatives that does seem to be a pattern.

He's not a strong candidate, but in the end, you look at the other guy, and it's a straight forward decision (isn't it?).

It should be, but it's not.

Plenty of people are saying that it's impossible to vote for Biden because of his age, his alleged senility (that's what the point about his forgetfulness is raising, after all), the corruption regarding Hunter Biden, the perception that he's a socialist to either vote for Trump or withhold their vote, which is, as I've said before, effectively a vote in favour of Trump.

notfatcat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:32 pm

Fonz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:30 pm

EnergiseR wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:19 am Fonz is one of those massive spoofers who sort of admires Trump's moxy and is sore his boy Sanders lost. So rather than but his big boy pants on and accept the loss he is schmoozing around pretending Biden rather than the massive tit Trump is the problem. It comes from the same place the riots in Trump's America are somehow Bidens problem

I did not even vote in the primaries for "my boy" this time around; you might be confusing me with Bones as he was pretty gung ho on Bernie. I do like him more than others since he correctly diagnoses the biggest issue is our country and is consistent on it, despite being wrong on a lot else, but I have little faith in anybody's ability to do anything substantive to set this country on the right path, least of all through democracy; corporate America is in charge and in the age of the internet and social media they also control the discourse. It's over.

And FFS the likes of NYT and WaPo (can't remember which) ran op-eds saying Biden's mental acuity was a question worth asking. It's not exactly controversial or a "right wing talking point" which has become the idiots' refrain.

Biden is not the problem, but affirming this path for Democratic party (which is what his election would do) isn't in the long term interest of the country. Sorry.

So you worship Donald Trump and you're a racist. [/Rinkals]

Pretty much a facile argument, but exactly what I would expect from you.

A facile argument??? That's you to a tee!

If you like.

Moving on:

Rinkals wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:15 am

Fonz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:44 pm

EnergiseR wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:29 pm

He is retarded though. That's the key point. You can't talk around that by giving it the 'yeah but the democrats...' schtick

Anyone who cares to see it understands his retardation, but unless people are saying it just to say it, then presumably the point of that key point is that he should be replaced. In which case it's entirely reasonable to ask questions about literally the only other group of people who could possibly replace him and his party.

Criticism of the Democrats does not imply support of Trump or the Republicans. I'm not criticising Democrats to "talk around" Trump's issues, I'm criticising Democrats because of where they are and what they're becoming.

I don't think it's "criticism of the Democrats" that implies support for Trump, but when you focus on Biden's imperfections, you imply that Trump is the better choice between the two.

I'd agree that Biden has his weaknesses in terms of being an ideal candidate, but of the 22-odd nomination hopefuls, he was probably the most electable.

Frankly, the fact that you disparage the "group of people" who could replace Trump gives a clear indication that you feel that Trump should not be replaced which makes you a Trump supporter, like it or not.

To a tee.

Fonz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:50 pm Fair enough JM, but tbf you brought up the stutter in this convo, which isn't where my concerns re: his cognitive decline arose; though granted it might be for many asking questions. For me it was the (occasional) rambling answers at debates and rallies, where it's not simply silly allegations that he forgot Obama's name, but really nonsensical answers that hardly address the question.

When you consider who will be around him, and the influences he will be subject to (hmm maybe the W comparison isnt so off...), a slower Biden will not be a moderate bulwark against the bizarre menagerie of corporatists and critical race theory zealots that are increasingly making up the party, as he would have been in his younger days. Just as a clueless Trump ultimately adhered to the GOP deregulatory small government bullshit proffered by party insiders, so might a hobbled Joe accede to the will of a bunch of people a good 3/4 of the country loathe.

I don't think you can compare any established (or establishment) politican with Trump, who is clueless about politics but happy to be a total shithead if it makes him money. I don't think there's any risk of Biden not being his own man here - he was clearly more of a centrist option than the others and when given the opportunity to be something else he simply carried on being Joe Biden. That's probably one of the better criticisms of the guy: he's not going to provide much 'change' except to try and drag things back to how they were before Trump, which is more of a reversion to the mean than real change.

Picking Harris was a shrewd maneouver but also a sign that he's not desperate to be particularly left wing.

(Also new guy explicitly mentioned the Obama thing, hence me pointing out that the 'forgetfulness' is not what it seems)

Fonz wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:30 pm

EnergiseR wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:19 am Fonz is one of those massive spoofers who sort of admires Trump's moxy and is sore his boy Sanders lost. So rather than but his big boy pants on and accept the loss he is schmoozing around pretending Biden rather than the massive tit Trump is the problem. It comes from the same place the riots in Trump's America are somehow Bidens problem

I did not even vote in the primaries for "my boy" this time around; you might be confusing me with Bones as he was pretty gung ho on Bernie. I do like him more than others since he correctly diagnoses the biggest issue is our country and is consistent on it, despite being wrong on a lot else, but I have little faith in anybody's ability to do anything substantive to set this country on the right path, least of all through democracy; corporate America is in charge and in the age of the internet and social media they also control the discourse. It's over.

And FFS the likes of NYT and WaPo (can't remember which) ran op-eds saying Biden's mental acuity was a question worth asking. It's not exactly controversial or a "right wing talking point" which has become the idiots' refrain.

Biden is not the problem, but affirming this path for Democratic party (which is what his election would do) isn't in the long term interest of the country. Sorry.

your words........
but we've never had someone of Biden's age and mental acuity in pole position for the Oval Office

unless you're saying that Biden's mental acuity is off the charts in a bigly good way or by saying "never had" you're talking past tense vs present ? bottom line, who's mental acuity concerns you more, Trump or Biden's ?

Hugo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:00 pm Read online the other day someone refer to Biden as the democrat equivalent of George W Bush and when I thought about it for a second I think that it works. He's more of a frontman than the man. No-one takes him that seriously but he's an unimposing, unthreatening nice guy who is hard to dislike.

I had no problem hating Dubya

he definitely had a folksy charm here but still....

People may have hated his policies but very few people actually hated him personally and when it came to policy no-one believed him to the mastermind.

notfatcat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:17 pm

To a tee.

Is where Trump is going, that or gaol

notfatcat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:17 pm

Rinkals wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:15 am

Fonz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:44 pm

Anyone who cares to see it understands his retardation, but unless people are saying it just to say it, then presumably the point of that key point is that he should be replaced. In which case it's entirely reasonable to ask questions about literally the only other group of people who could possibly replace him and his party.

Criticism of the Democrats does not imply support of Trump or the Republicans. I'm not criticising Democrats to "talk around" Trump's issues, I'm criticising Democrats because of where they are and what they're becoming.

I don't think it's "criticism of the Democrats" that implies support for Trump, but when you focus on Biden's imperfections, you imply that Trump is the better choice between the two.

I'd agree that Biden has his weaknesses in terms of being an ideal candidate, but of the 22-odd nomination hopefuls, he was probably the most electable.

Frankly, the fact that you disparage the "group of people" who could replace Trump gives a clear indication that you feel that Trump should not be replaced which makes you a Trump supporter, like it or not.

To a tee.

To a tee?

Are you saying that Trump IS a better choice for President?

I'm not sure if that is actually what you are saying, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were.

Hang on a second. This is the Trump thread and we're discussing somebody else's mental acuity (or lack thereof)?

In some ways, you have to marvel at the Republicans barefaced cheek in flipping their candidate's weaknesses and projecting them onto the opposition.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:00 pm Hang on a second. This is the Trump thread and we're discussing somebody else's mental acuity (or lack thereof)?

In some ways, you have to marvel at the Republicans barefaced cheek in flipping their candidate's weaknesses and projecting them onto the opposition.

Yes.

Because, although we say we don't support Trump, we prefer him to Biden.

Biden is senile. He sometimes can't remember things and he has been known to stumble when walking.
Biden is corrupt (he used his position to benefit his son).
Biden practices nepotism (see above)
Biden has women accusing him of sexual assault.

All of the above goes to prove that Trump is a better President. I believe that's the thinking.

Dubya's folsky aw gee shucks thing was an act. The guy was smart and was selling it to his base. In a way that makes him a lot worse than if he was just a bumbling buffoon, but history will likely judge him much kindlier than he deserves thanks to Trump.

I hired a guy years back to work in a busy cafe. He made me a coffee as part of the interview, really knew his way around the performance part of the job in that respect... but he had a bad stutter. One of the worst I’ve come across. We talked about it and how it would affect his ability to serve people in a busy, fast paced environment. He was really cool about it... difficult conversation to have but we had to cover it. Anyway, he did really well and we remained friends after I left...

But the thing is, stutterers really battle to speak clearly and the techniques they can employ to manage it can definitely lead observers to form completely incorrect conclusions about their mental state and cognitive abilities.

Reading back through the discussion, it seems that point is just not appreciated with regard to Biden who must be doing a great job of managing his as I had no idea he suffered with it until the story broke about the young kid he’d helped.

Yeah but senile.

I had a bad stutter when I first came to Australia. Funnily enough only when I spoke English. I was fine in Tongan. Had it for years, seems to be when I'm nervous or if I had to read something. I managed it by replacing words or rephrasing my original thoughts.

Then I enrolled in a public speaking class for work where we had to read Shakespeare, poems etc. It changed everything for me. Suddenly most of my stutter is gone. Occasionally it reappears but I'm not nervous about it. I just calmly correct it.

A good technique is to think of audience as lowlife fvckwits that you're wasting your time speaking to. Think of yourself as superior to your audience. Or think they're naked.

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:12 pm I'm confused. Which of them is the good guy with a gun?

Good guys don't carry guns.

Or riot

Apologies if Red Rebelling...

Sky News's Chris Kenny has applauded Trump's GOP convention speech, boasting that it has completely transformed the election contest and predicting that women, African Americans and law abiding Americans from every demographic will now flock back to Trump.

This was always the issue Ali. He has dragged everything down so low that if he behaved even remotely ok for a brief period in time people could turn around and say 'look he's grand that's why I voted for him. I am not an idiot and I am going to vote for him again'. Things will never be the same again bar we shut down the internet but then you couldn't hang out with me

EnergiseR wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:05 am This was always the issue Ali. He has dragged everything down so low that if he behaved even remotely ok for a brief period in time people could turn around and say 'look he's grand that's why I voted for him. I am not an idiot and I am going to vote for him again'. Things will never be the same again bar we shut down the internet but then you couldn't hang out with me

Otherwise known as ‘doing a Ben Youngs’

I’m at the stage where I simply don’t understand how there is any possible debate over who to support. You could put literally anyone up against Trump and they would be less of a patently self serving, delusional, rapey, murderous criminal fucktard hell bent on destroying anyone and anything in the pursuit of his own personal gain or ego.

It’s quite an accomplishment to take the rest of the world from sniggering about Americans to feeling kinda sorry for them.

Punter15 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:47 am I’m at the stage where I simply don’t understand how there is any possible debate over who to support. You could put literally anyone up against Trump and they would be less of a patently self serving, delusional, rapey, murderous criminal fucktard hell bent on destroying anyone and anything in the pursuit of his own personal gain or ego.

It’s quite an accomplishment to take the rest of the world from sniggering about Americans to feeling kinda sorry for them.

Maybe that's because you're thinking that the personality of a fat reality TV star is the most important thing here. I think what's more astonishing is that despite Trump seemingly being the most despised and ridiculed president in history the democrats are in danger of losing to him again, which would be entirely their own fault.

That’s true. You need someone credible to easily beat Trump in the Internet Age of Voting. Biden is only semi-credible because he’s ancient. Hence the close race.

Donny is also an old, infirm guy but he’s still younger than his opponent.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:28 pm That’s true. You need someone credible to easily beat Trump in the Internet Age of Voting. Biden is only semi-credible because he’s ancient. Hence the close race.

Donny is also an old, infirm guy but he’s still younger than his opponent.

Don is younger, but trails more than a little on the physical and mental fitness fronts