Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:26 am
Enjoyed this. Imagine having to go out to bat for Boris and lose every shred of dignity time and time again.
I don't have a tremendous amount of sympathy to be honest.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:52 am
by SaintK
Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:26 am
Enjoyed this. Imagine having to go out to bat for Boris and lose every shred of dignity time and time again.
As a cheerleader for the blonde slug he lost all dignity a long time ago. Just like all the others
Approximately 90% of men won't date a trans woman but it's the feminists who are hardline for not treating trans women as women.
Nobody wishes harm to the Trans community, but there needs to be compromise, as there are legitimate concerns. Biological men competing in professional sports against biologicals women for one, the other is respect for biologicals women to retain their safe spaces, particularly when it's a free for all i.e. no proven commitment for the man to have lived as a women for any length of time.
Labour needs to avoid topic like the plague, otherwise it will lose them the next general election, an election they need to win, otherwise they are letting down the key reason for them being - to get a fair deal for the working classes. That's what they need to focus on 100% not fringe issues.
Agreed. There is an I suspect fairly small number of people who either at birth or later don’t fit conveniently into either gender. They should have all the care and consideration they need. However - dare I say it - I think it’s become a Cause with a capital C now. Celebs that would have quite rightly supported racial or gay equality now need something different to attach themselves to. Sorry if that seems a bit cynical.
I don't think that's too cynical, it will certainly apply to some and not only celebs. Some people are constantly in pursuit of a cause (or causes) to fight for. In some ways we should appreciate that, those people are behind a lot of shifts for the better through history, but they can promote niche causes too strongly at times and out of step with public opinion. Politicians should be able to handle multiple issues at a time, but they also need to keep a utilitarian eye on things - how to do the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people.
To be cynical about it in a different way, the right are absolutely trying to push trans stuff front and centre to distract from the myriad of other things they're fucking up and to encourage the worst elements of the progressive fringes to weigh in on things and start tarring the left as a whole with those opinions. With a generally right leaning press and over-weighting of social media attitudes, we bear witness to the two extremes shrieking at each other.
I suspect that when asked the vast majority of people would say they don't want trans people to be victimised, made to suffer or have fewer rights than any of the rest of us, but that's about it. Trans people are such a tiny portion of the population that they just aren't a relevant element of day to day life and people don't dedicate time or thought to them. When trans people come onto their radar it'll usually be passively via some headline they saw about weird anatomical definitions being used in place of all the 'common sense' stuff they would've been taught. A headline that's likely highly misleading and designed to elicit an emotive response. And we have learnt, boy have we learnt, that emotion rather than information and reason can drive an awful lot when it comes to voting.
Whether it's true or not, the right want the perception out there that Labour are a bunch of out of touch, metropolitan, commie-pinko progressives and almost any engagement on trans issues from Labour will be spun that way. Meanwhile a not insignificant part of the party membership and voter base will want Labour to go to bat for trans people aggressively whenever something comes up and by no means should the party allow anything egregious to slide, but there is very little to be gained by getting bogged down in 'how do you define a woman?' gotchas. Too little of the press and public are interested in anything nuanced or remotely complex.
Cost of living, Tory corruption and the deliberate running down of our public services should be more or less the be all and end all for Labour until after the election. Nothing even remotely useful can be done while sitting on the sidelines of a Tory majority.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:05 am
by sockwithaticket
tabascoboy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:41 pm
Do hope the Tories are proud of their support from previously fringe groups
I'm sure that's all just vague enough to avoid being arrested, but could he at least be done for filming himself on his phone while driving?
What an utter cunt of a person, he's getting off on the idea of being a fascist foot-soldier. Brown jacket substituting for a brown shirt.
Nobody wishes harm to the Trans community, but there needs to be compromise, as there are legitimate concerns. Biological men competing in professional sports against biologicals women for one, the other is respect for biologicals women to retain their safe spaces, particularly when it's a free for all i.e. no proven commitment for the man to have lived as a women for any length of time.
Labour needs to avoid topic like the plague, otherwise it will lose them the next general election, an election they need to win, otherwise they are letting down the key reason for them being - to get a fair deal for the working classes. That's what they need to focus on 100% not fringe issues.
Agreed. There is an I suspect fairly small number of people who either at birth or later don’t fit conveniently into either gender. They should have all the care and consideration they need. However - dare I say it - I think it’s become a Cause with a capital C now. Celebs that would have quite rightly supported racial or gay equality now need something different to attach themselves to. Sorry if that seems a bit cynical.
I don't think that's too cynical, it will certainly apply to some and not only celebs. Some people are constantly in pursuit of a cause (or causes) to fight for. In some ways we should appreciate that, those people are behind a lot of shifts for the better through history, but they can promote niche causes too strongly at times and out of step with public opinion. Politicians should be able to handle multiple issues at a time, but they also need to keep a utilitarian eye on things - how to do the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people.
To be cynical about it in a different way, the right are absolutely trying to push trans stuff front and centre to distract from the myriad of other things they're fucking up and to encourage the worst elements of the progressive fringes to weigh in on things and start tarring the left as a whole with those opinions. With a generally right leaning press and over-weighting of social media attitudes, we bear witness to the two extremes shrieking at each other.
I suspect that when asked the vast majority of people would say they don't want trans people to be victimised, made to suffer or have fewer rights than any of the rest of us, but that's about it. Trans people are such a tiny portion of the population that they just aren't a relevant element of day to day life and people don't dedicate time or thought to them. When trans people come onto their radar it'll usually be passively via some headline they saw about weird anatomical definitions being used in place of all the 'common sense' stuff they would've been taught. A headline that's likely highly misleading and designed to elicit an emotive response. And we have learnt, boy have we learnt, that emotion rather than information and reason can drive an awful lot when it comes to voting.
Whether it's true or not, the right want the perception out there that Labour are a bunch of out of touch, metropolitan, commie-pinko progressives and almost any engagement on trans issues from Labour will be spun that way. Meanwhile a not insignificant part of the party membership and voter base will want Labour to go to bat for trans people aggressively whenever something comes up and by no means should the party allow anything egregious to slide, but there is very little to be gained by getting bogged down in 'how do you define a woman?' gotchas. Too little of the press and public are interested in anything nuanced or remotely complex.
Cost of living, Tory corruption and the deliberate running down of our public services should be more or less the be all and end all for Labour until after the election. Nothing even remotely useful can be done while sitting on the sidelines of a Tory majority.
I think the last thing the trans movement, or the feminist movement, needs is the view of middle aged straight white men.
GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:39 am
Agreed. There is an I suspect fairly small number of people who either at birth or later don’t fit conveniently into either gender. They should have all the care and consideration they need. However - dare I say it - I think it’s become a Cause with a capital C now. Celebs that would have quite rightly supported racial or gay equality now need something different to attach themselves to. Sorry if that seems a bit cynical.
I don't think that's too cynical, it will certainly apply to some and not only celebs. Some people are constantly in pursuit of a cause (or causes) to fight for. In some ways we should appreciate that, those people are behind a lot of shifts for the better through history, but they can promote niche causes too strongly at times and out of step with public opinion. Politicians should be able to handle multiple issues at a time, but they also need to keep a utilitarian eye on things - how to do the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people.
To be cynical about it in a different way, the right are absolutely trying to push trans stuff front and centre to distract from the myriad of other things they're fucking up and to encourage the worst elements of the progressive fringes to weigh in on things and start tarring the left as a whole with those opinions. With a generally right leaning press and over-weighting of social media attitudes, we bear witness to the two extremes shrieking at each other.
I suspect that when asked the vast majority of people would say they don't want trans people to be victimised, made to suffer or have fewer rights than any of the rest of us, but that's about it. Trans people are such a tiny portion of the population that they just aren't a relevant element of day to day life and people don't dedicate time or thought to them. When trans people come onto their radar it'll usually be passively via some headline they saw about weird anatomical definitions being used in place of all the 'common sense' stuff they would've been taught. A headline that's likely highly misleading and designed to elicit an emotive response. And we have learnt, boy have we learnt, that emotion rather than information and reason can drive an awful lot when it comes to voting.
Whether it's true or not, the right want the perception out there that Labour are a bunch of out of touch, metropolitan, commie-pinko progressives and almost any engagement on trans issues from Labour will be spun that way. Meanwhile a not insignificant part of the party membership and voter base will want Labour to go to bat for trans people aggressively whenever something comes up and by no means should the party allow anything egregious to slide, but there is very little to be gained by getting bogged down in 'how do you define a woman?' gotchas. Too little of the press and public are interested in anything nuanced or remotely complex.
Cost of living, Tory corruption and the deliberate running down of our public services should be more or less the be all and end all for Labour until after the election. Nothing even remotely useful can be done while sitting on the sidelines of a Tory majority.
I think the last thing the trans movement, or the feminist movement, needs is the view of middle aged straight white men.
Speaking for myself, they may well not need my views, which I mostly keep to myself anyway. But I reserve the right to express them.
I don't think that's too cynical, it will certainly apply to some and not only celebs. Some people are constantly in pursuit of a cause (or causes) to fight for. In some ways we should appreciate that, those people are behind a lot of shifts for the better through history, but they can promote niche causes too strongly at times and out of step with public opinion. Politicians should be able to handle multiple issues at a time, but they also need to keep a utilitarian eye on things - how to do the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people.
To be cynical about it in a different way, the right are absolutely trying to push trans stuff front and centre to distract from the myriad of other things they're fucking up and to encourage the worst elements of the progressive fringes to weigh in on things and start tarring the left as a whole with those opinions. With a generally right leaning press and over-weighting of social media attitudes, we bear witness to the two extremes shrieking at each other.
I suspect that when asked the vast majority of people would say they don't want trans people to be victimised, made to suffer or have fewer rights than any of the rest of us, but that's about it. Trans people are such a tiny portion of the population that they just aren't a relevant element of day to day life and people don't dedicate time or thought to them. When trans people come onto their radar it'll usually be passively via some headline they saw about weird anatomical definitions being used in place of all the 'common sense' stuff they would've been taught. A headline that's likely highly misleading and designed to elicit an emotive response. And we have learnt, boy have we learnt, that emotion rather than information and reason can drive an awful lot when it comes to voting.
Whether it's true or not, the right want the perception out there that Labour are a bunch of out of touch, metropolitan, commie-pinko progressives and almost any engagement on trans issues from Labour will be spun that way. Meanwhile a not insignificant part of the party membership and voter base will want Labour to go to bat for trans people aggressively whenever something comes up and by no means should the party allow anything egregious to slide, but there is very little to be gained by getting bogged down in 'how do you define a woman?' gotchas. Too little of the press and public are interested in anything nuanced or remotely complex.
Cost of living, Tory corruption and the deliberate running down of our public services should be more or less the be all and end all for Labour until after the election. Nothing even remotely useful can be done while sitting on the sidelines of a Tory majority.
I think the last thing the trans movement, or the feminist movement, needs is the view of middle aged straight white men.
Speaking for myself, they may well not need my views, which I mostly keep to myself anyway. But I reserve the right to express them.
Yeah, you have every right to that. But don't expect anyone to pay attention
I think the last thing the trans movement, or the feminist movement, needs is the view of middle aged straight white men.
Speaking for myself, they may well not need my views, which I mostly keep to myself anyway. But I reserve the right to express them.
Yeah, you have every right to that. But don't expect anyone to pay attention
Nobody has to. But a dialogue of the deaf or non-listening isn’t healthy either.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:10 am
by JM2K6
Middle aged straight white men have an outsized impact on modern life and politics. I think it's naive to think that their opinion doesn't matter, no matter what angle you're coming from.
And we're talking on a rugby forum largely dominated by that section of the population.
GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:39 am
Agreed. There is an I suspect fairly small number of people who either at birth or later don’t fit conveniently into either gender. They should have all the care and consideration they need. However - dare I say it - I think it’s become a Cause with a capital C now. Celebs that would have quite rightly supported racial or gay equality now need something different to attach themselves to. Sorry if that seems a bit cynical.
I don't think that's too cynical, it will certainly apply to some and not only celebs. Some people are constantly in pursuit of a cause (or causes) to fight for. In some ways we should appreciate that, those people are behind a lot of shifts for the better through history, but they can promote niche causes too strongly at times and out of step with public opinion. Politicians should be able to handle multiple issues at a time, but they also need to keep a utilitarian eye on things - how to do the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people.
To be cynical about it in a different way, the right are absolutely trying to push trans stuff front and centre to distract from the myriad of other things they're fucking up and to encourage the worst elements of the progressive fringes to weigh in on things and start tarring the left as a whole with those opinions. With a generally right leaning press and over-weighting of social media attitudes, we bear witness to the two extremes shrieking at each other.
I suspect that when asked the vast majority of people would say they don't want trans people to be victimised, made to suffer or have fewer rights than any of the rest of us, but that's about it. Trans people are such a tiny portion of the population that they just aren't a relevant element of day to day life and people don't dedicate time or thought to them. When trans people come onto their radar it'll usually be passively via some headline they saw about weird anatomical definitions being used in place of all the 'common sense' stuff they would've been taught. A headline that's likely highly misleading and designed to elicit an emotive response. And we have learnt, boy have we learnt, that emotion rather than information and reason can drive an awful lot when it comes to voting.
Whether it's true or not, the right want the perception out there that Labour are a bunch of out of touch, metropolitan, commie-pinko progressives and almost any engagement on trans issues from Labour will be spun that way. Meanwhile a not insignificant part of the party membership and voter base will want Labour to go to bat for trans people aggressively whenever something comes up and by no means should the party allow anything egregious to slide, but there is very little to be gained by getting bogged down in 'how do you define a woman?' gotchas. Too little of the press and public are interested in anything nuanced or remotely complex.
Cost of living, Tory corruption and the deliberate running down of our public services should be more or less the be all and end all for Labour until after the election. Nothing even remotely useful can be done while sitting on the sidelines of a Tory majority.
I think the last thing the trans movement, or the feminist movement, needs is the view of middle aged straight white men.
Yes, Labour should absolutely disregard the views of middle aged straight white men. This is great electoral strategy.
I think the last thing the trans movement, or the feminist movement, needs is the view of middle aged straight white men.
Speaking for myself, they may well not need my views, which I mostly keep to myself anyway. But I reserve the right to express them.
Yeah, you have every right to that. But don't expect anyone to pay attention
This stuff is so tedious. 'I'm not paying attention to your view because you're x' is the worst of American campus politics imported over here. If you want to get wiped out at elections playing this game, be my guest.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:21 am
by fishfoodie
So what time does the lying bastard stand up, & lie, about one of the previous times he lied ?
GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:39 am
Agreed. There is an I suspect fairly small number of people who either at birth or later don’t fit conveniently into either gender. They should have all the care and consideration they need. However - dare I say it - I think it’s become a Cause with a capital C now. Celebs that would have quite rightly supported racial or gay equality now need something different to attach themselves to. Sorry if that seems a bit cynical.
I don't think that's too cynical, it will certainly apply to some and not only celebs. Some people are constantly in pursuit of a cause (or causes) to fight for. In some ways we should appreciate that, those people are behind a lot of shifts for the better through history, but they can promote niche causes too strongly at times and out of step with public opinion. Politicians should be able to handle multiple issues at a time, but they also need to keep a utilitarian eye on things - how to do the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people.
To be cynical about it in a different way, the right are absolutely trying to push trans stuff front and centre to distract from the myriad of other things they're fucking up and to encourage the worst elements of the progressive fringes to weigh in on things and start tarring the left as a whole with those opinions. With a generally right leaning press and over-weighting of social media attitudes, we bear witness to the two extremes shrieking at each other.
I suspect that when asked the vast majority of people would say they don't want trans people to be victimised, made to suffer or have fewer rights than any of the rest of us, but that's about it. Trans people are such a tiny portion of the population that they just aren't a relevant element of day to day life and people don't dedicate time or thought to them. When trans people come onto their radar it'll usually be passively via some headline they saw about weird anatomical definitions being used in place of all the 'common sense' stuff they would've been taught. A headline that's likely highly misleading and designed to elicit an emotive response. And we have learnt, boy have we learnt, that emotion rather than information and reason can drive an awful lot when it comes to voting.
Whether it's true or not, the right want the perception out there that Labour are a bunch of out of touch, metropolitan, commie-pinko progressives and almost any engagement on trans issues from Labour will be spun that way. Meanwhile a not insignificant part of the party membership and voter base will want Labour to go to bat for trans people aggressively whenever something comes up and by no means should the party allow anything egregious to slide, but there is very little to be gained by getting bogged down in 'how do you define a woman?' gotchas. Too little of the press and public are interested in anything nuanced or remotely complex.
Cost of living, Tory corruption and the deliberate running down of our public services should be more or less the be all and end all for Labour until after the election. Nothing even remotely useful can be done while sitting on the sidelines of a Tory majority.
I think the last thing the trans movement, or the feminist movement, needs is the view of middle aged straight white men.
Thank goodness for me that middle age is still quite a way off and thus my view will be much sought by those movements.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:36 am
by Biffer
Well that rattled a couple of cages.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:07 pm
by tabascoboy
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:21 am
So what time does the lying bastard stand up, & lie, about one of the previous times he lied ?
Isn't he in India this week? Well I assume you're talking about Johnson though "lying bastard" doesn't narrow the field much
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:13 pm
by JM2K6
Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:36 am
Well that rattled a couple of cages.
I'm not sure that's the correct reading of the responses.
I'm not really even sure what your ultimate aim was.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:19 pm
by Hal Jordan
I see that the "It's only like speeding" line has been temporarily suspended as sacrificial lamb Brandon Lewis is the latest loyal halfwit to be thrown under the bus by no 10. Couldn't happen to a nicer chap.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:20 pm
by Rhubarb & Custard
As per at least one member of cabinet all Boris has done is akin to a parking ticket, and the thinking as to what the police can do there is along the lines of
GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:39 am
Agreed. There is an I suspect fairly small number of people who either at birth or later don’t fit conveniently into either gender. They should have all the care and consideration they need. However - dare I say it - I think it’s become a Cause with a capital C now. Celebs that would have quite rightly supported racial or gay equality now need something different to attach themselves to. Sorry if that seems a bit cynical.
I don't think that's too cynical, it will certainly apply to some and not only celebs. Some people are constantly in pursuit of a cause (or causes) to fight for. In some ways we should appreciate that, those people are behind a lot of shifts for the better through history, but they can promote niche causes too strongly at times and out of step with public opinion. Politicians should be able to handle multiple issues at a time, but they also need to keep a utilitarian eye on things - how to do the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people.
To be cynical about it in a different way, the right are absolutely trying to push trans stuff front and centre to distract from the myriad of other things they're fucking up and to encourage the worst elements of the progressive fringes to weigh in on things and start tarring the left as a whole with those opinions. With a generally right leaning press and over-weighting of social media attitudes, we bear witness to the two extremes shrieking at each other.
I suspect that when asked the vast majority of people would say they don't want trans people to be victimised, made to suffer or have fewer rights than any of the rest of us, but that's about it. Trans people are such a tiny portion of the population that they just aren't a relevant element of day to day life and people don't dedicate time or thought to them. When trans people come onto their radar it'll usually be passively via some headline they saw about weird anatomical definitions being used in place of all the 'common sense' stuff they would've been taught. A headline that's likely highly misleading and designed to elicit an emotive response. And we have learnt, boy have we learnt, that emotion rather than information and reason can drive an awful lot when it comes to voting.
Whether it's true or not, the right want the perception out there that Labour are a bunch of out of touch, metropolitan, commie-pinko progressives and almost any engagement on trans issues from Labour will be spun that way. Meanwhile a not insignificant part of the party membership and voter base will want Labour to go to bat for trans people aggressively whenever something comes up and by no means should the party allow anything egregious to slide, but there is very little to be gained by getting bogged down in 'how do you define a woman?' gotchas. Too little of the press and public are interested in anything nuanced or remotely complex.
Cost of living, Tory corruption and the deliberate running down of our public services should be more or less the be all and end all for Labour until after the election. Nothing even remotely useful can be done while sitting on the sidelines of a Tory majority.
I think the last thing the trans movement, or the feminist movement, needs is the view of middle aged straight white men.
Says the person that used the phrase: Hard line feminists. What is a hard line feminist? someone that doesn't just want to work but won't equal pay too? It's like saying hardline anti-racist, it's a pejorative phrase as is TERF. Feminism isn't something from the last century that is done and dusted, it's something we should all continue to support so there is is better life for women, who are also men's wife and daughters
Misogamy, unconscious and overt, is still rife in our society. Women are still victims of violence, sexual abuse, as well as low level oppression/dismissiveness, the TERF hate aimed at women that speak out is a perfect example. The #itsnotallmen twitter response to the Sahara Everard murder shows how little understanding there is from middle aged straight white men about the struggles women can face day to day, so I as a women welcome their interest.
Watching Petty Patel in HoC defending her Rwanda policy is painful. She is a dangerous, evil and arrogant bastard who will not answer the questions that require detailed answers, your very own Eichmann! She is not all over her brief and when cornered comes out throwing insults and half truths all over the place, including questions from her own side. She needs removed along with the Blonde Bumblecunt asap. I am not sure I can watch much more of her diatribe wholly designed to appeal to the right wing zealots in her own party and the racist and xenophobic ex UKIP vote.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:45 pm
by SaintK
dpedin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:26 pm
Watching Petty Patel in HoC defending her Rwanda policy is painful. She is a dangerous, evil and arrogant bastard who will not answer the questions that require detailed answers, your very own Eichmann! She is not all over her brief and when cornered comes out throwing insults and half truths all over the place, including questions from her own side. She needs removed along with the Blonde Bumblecunt asap. I am not sure I can watch much more of her diatribe wholly designed to appeal to the right wing zealots in her own party and the racist and xenophobic ex UKIP vote.
I turned it off, she can hardly string two words together and read out her own notes.
She can't begin to articulate her own or the government's position and as you say, just insults anyone in op[position and is condescending to anyone on her own benches who choses to quetion what she is saying
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:26 pm
by Paddington Bear
Boris is taking a shooing in the Commons right now. He looks broken and his backbenchers spineless. I suppose they're banking that in the end he'll wiggle out when the issue fades by the next election.
I don't think that's too cynical, it will certainly apply to some and not only celebs. Some people are constantly in pursuit of a cause (or causes) to fight for. In some ways we should appreciate that, those people are behind a lot of shifts for the better through history, but they can promote niche causes too strongly at times and out of step with public opinion. Politicians should be able to handle multiple issues at a time, but they also need to keep a utilitarian eye on things - how to do the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people.
To be cynical about it in a different way, the right are absolutely trying to push trans stuff front and centre to distract from the myriad of other things they're fucking up and to encourage the worst elements of the progressive fringes to weigh in on things and start tarring the left as a whole with those opinions. With a generally right leaning press and over-weighting of social media attitudes, we bear witness to the two extremes shrieking at each other.
I suspect that when asked the vast majority of people would say they don't want trans people to be victimised, made to suffer or have fewer rights than any of the rest of us, but that's about it. Trans people are such a tiny portion of the population that they just aren't a relevant element of day to day life and people don't dedicate time or thought to them. When trans people come onto their radar it'll usually be passively via some headline they saw about weird anatomical definitions being used in place of all the 'common sense' stuff they would've been taught. A headline that's likely highly misleading and designed to elicit an emotive response. And we have learnt, boy have we learnt, that emotion rather than information and reason can drive an awful lot when it comes to voting.
Whether it's true or not, the right want the perception out there that Labour are a bunch of out of touch, metropolitan, commie-pinko progressives and almost any engagement on trans issues from Labour will be spun that way. Meanwhile a not insignificant part of the party membership and voter base will want Labour to go to bat for trans people aggressively whenever something comes up and by no means should the party allow anything egregious to slide, but there is very little to be gained by getting bogged down in 'how do you define a woman?' gotchas. Too little of the press and public are interested in anything nuanced or remotely complex.
Cost of living, Tory corruption and the deliberate running down of our public services should be more or less the be all and end all for Labour until after the election. Nothing even remotely useful can be done while sitting on the sidelines of a Tory majority.
I think the last thing the trans movement, or the feminist movement, needs is the view of middle aged straight white men.
Says the person that used the phrase: Hard line feminists. What is a hard line feminist? someone that doesn't just want to work but won't equal pay too? It's like saying hardline anti-racist, it's a pejorative phrase as is TERF. Feminism isn't something from the last century that is done and dusted, it's something we should all continue to support so there is is better life for women, who are also men's wife and daughters
Misogamy, unconscious and overt, is still rife in our society. Women are still victims of violence, sexual abuse, as well as low level oppression/dismissiveness, the TERF hate aimed at women that speak out is a perfect example. The #itsnotallmen twitter response to the Sahara Everard murder shows how little understanding there is from middle aged straight white men about the struggles women can face day to day, so I as a women welcome their interest.
Didn’t think hard line feminists was particularly pejorative, apologies for that. I wasn’t making a comment on whether they were right or wrong. I tend to hold back from offering my middle aged white male opinions when it comes to the rights of any under represented group. Your second paragraph is a pretty on point explanation on why those of us in that category should bite our collective tongue and let other people speak, rather than spouting our privileged opinions left right and centre and expecting people to respect them, no matter how poorly informed we are.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:31 pm
by dpedin
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:26 pm
Boris is taking a shooing in the Commons right now. He looks broken and his backbenchers spineless. I suppose they're banking that in the end he'll wiggle out when the issue fades by the next election.
He does but he doesn't give a shit does he! He and his Brexit ultras have too much invested and too much hidden to resign. They pay masters and kompramat holders will be very annoyed if he doesn't follow through with what they want from him. They will get found out and he and they will be destroyed. They know they are in the shit but have no out so will hold onto the very end. It is never the crime it is always the follow up that drags them down.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:36 pm
by SaintK
Here's one with a spine "not worthy of the office he holds"
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:26 pm
Boris is taking a shooing in the Commons right now. He looks broken and his backbenchers spineless. I suppose they're banking that in the end he'll wiggle out when the issue fades by the next election.
He does but he doesn't give a shit does he! He and his Brexit ultras have too much invested and too much hidden to resign. They pay masters and kompramat holders will be very annoyed if he doesn't follow through with what they want from him. They will get found out and he and they will be destroyed. They know they are in the shit but have no out so will hold onto the very end. It is never the crime it is always the follow up that drags them down.
Not sure if Johnson really has any master. He is a law unto himself. Don't think any kompramat will really damage him further.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:26 pm
Boris is taking a shooing in the Commons right now. He looks broken and his backbenchers spineless. I suppose they're banking that in the end he'll wiggle out when the issue fades by the next election.
He does but he doesn't give a shit does he! He and his Brexit ultras have too much invested and too much hidden to resign. They pay masters and kompramat holders will be very annoyed if he doesn't follow through with what they want from him. They will get found out and he and they will be destroyed. They know they are in the shit but have no out so will hold onto the very end. It is never the crime it is always the follow up that drags them down.
I'm now really worried; because this racist Rwanda policy, & the previous leaks about Operation Save Big Dog, make me almost sure they'll trigger Article 16 when the next big bombshell drops; whether that's more fines, or a massacre at the locals or whatever.
When he talks about the Government carrying out their Plans, he means firing out a regular stream of red meat to worst elements of his support.
Nothing is more important than him staying in office, & that includes pulling down the entire TCA.
I think the last thing the trans movement, or the feminist movement, needs is the view of middle aged straight white men.
Says the person that used the phrase: Hard line feminists. What is a hard line feminist? someone that doesn't just want to work but won't equal pay too? It's like saying hardline anti-racist, it's a pejorative phrase as is TERF. Feminism isn't something from the last century that is done and dusted, it's something we should all continue to support so there is is better life for women, who are also men's wife and daughters
Misogamy, unconscious and overt, is still rife in our society. Women are still victims of violence, sexual abuse, as well as low level oppression/dismissiveness, the TERF hate aimed at women that speak out is a perfect example. The #itsnotallmen twitter response to the Sahara Everard murder shows how little understanding there is from middle aged straight white men about the struggles women can face day to day, so I as a women welcome their interest.
Didn’t think hard line feminists was particularly pejorative, apologies for that. I wasn’t making a comment on whether they were right or wrong. I tend to hold back from offering my middle aged white male opinions when it comes to the rights of any under represented group. Your second paragraph is a pretty on point explanation on why those of us in that category should bite our collective tongue and let other people speak, rather than spouting our privileged opinions left right and centre and expecting people to respect them, no matter how poorly informed we are.
Appreciate the apology, even if I disagree about your other point. It's in everyone's interest to take an active interest and be a force for good and greater understanding of issues faced by others. Even a little thing like not laughing at a joke where a women is the butt of it helps , and it is really only men that can change the male culture environment to encourage or inform better behavior.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:26 pm
Boris is taking a shooing in the Commons right now. He looks broken and his backbenchers spineless. I suppose they're banking that in the end he'll wiggle out when the issue fades by the next election.
He does but he doesn't give a shit does he! He and his Brexit ultras have too much invested and too much hidden to resign. They pay masters and kompramat holders will be very annoyed if he doesn't follow through with what they want from him. They will get found out and he and they will be destroyed. They know they are in the shit but have no out so will hold onto the very end. It is never the crime it is always the follow up that drags them down.
Not sure if Johnson really has any master. He is a law unto himself. Don't think any kompramat will really damage him further.
I find the idea there's kompromat on Boris weird - he's just been outed as having broken the law and lied to Parliament about it, his finances are a mess, he has multiple children with multiple women etc etc, what do they think is being held back that he's scared of?
He does but he doesn't give a shit does he! He and his Brexit ultras have too much invested and too much hidden to resign. They pay masters and kompramat holders will be very annoyed if he doesn't follow through with what they want from him. They will get found out and he and they will be destroyed. They know they are in the shit but have no out so will hold onto the very end. It is never the crime it is always the follow up that drags them down.
Not sure if Johnson really has any master. He is a law unto himself. Don't think any kompramat will really damage him further.
I find the idea there's kompromat on Boris weird - he's just been outed as having broken the law and lied to Parliament about it, his finances are a mess, he has multiple children with multiple women etc etc, what do they think is being held back that he's scared of?
Dodgy photos from parties at Lebedev's parties in Italy will probably be kicking around? Rory Stewart refused an invitation despite being told there would be 'lots of girls' at the party and that Boris was attending? Lebedev's father was senior officer in KGB in London, you don't walk away from a job like that, ever!
petej wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:05 pm
Not sure if Johnson really has any master. He is a law unto himself. Don't think any kompramat will really damage him further.
I find the idea there's kompromat on Boris weird - he's just been outed as having broken the law and lied to Parliament about it, his finances are a mess, he has multiple children with multiple women etc etc, what do they think is being held back that he's scared of?
Dodgy photos from parties at Lebedev's parties in Italy will probably be kicking around? Rory Stewart refused an invitation despite being told there would be 'lots of girls' at the party and that Boris was attending? Lebedev's father was senior officer in KGB in London, you don't walk away from a job like that, ever!
He's a serial philanderer and likes parties. He doesn't have a reputation to protect and is shameless. I don't think photos of him snorting coke off a dwarf prostitute would have any impact at all.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:32 pm
by Slick
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:26 pm
Boris is taking a shooing in the Commons right now. He looks broken and his backbenchers spineless. I suppose they're banking that in the end he'll wiggle out when the issue fades by the next election.
All the politicos are saying it was much tamer than last time and he more or less sailed through it
Says the person that used the phrase: Hard line feminists. What is a hard line feminist? someone that doesn't just want to work but won't equal pay too? It's like saying hardline anti-racist, it's a pejorative phrase as is TERF. Feminism isn't something from the last century that is done and dusted, it's something we should all continue to support so there is is better life for women, who are also men's wife and daughters
Misogamy, unconscious and overt, is still rife in our society. Women are still victims of violence, sexual abuse, as well as low level oppression/dismissiveness, the TERF hate aimed at women that speak out is a perfect example. The #itsnotallmen twitter response to the Sahara Everard murder shows how little understanding there is from middle aged straight white men about the struggles women can face day to day, so I as a women welcome their interest.
Didn’t think hard line feminists was particularly pejorative, apologies for that. I wasn’t making a comment on whether they were right or wrong. I tend to hold back from offering my middle aged white male opinions when it comes to the rights of any under represented group. Your second paragraph is a pretty on point explanation on why those of us in that category should bite our collective tongue and let other people speak, rather than spouting our privileged opinions left right and centre and expecting people to respect them, no matter how poorly informed we are.
Appreciate the apology, even if I disagree about your other point. It's in everyone's interest to take an active interest and be a force for good and greater understanding of issues faced by others. Even a little thing like not laughing at a joke where a women is the butt of it helps , and it is really only men that can change the male culture environment to encourage or inform better behavior.
Yeah, that’s my take on it. As a middle class white male I think I need to be involved in the small bits even if the big stuff doesn’t involve me.
Worth saying as well that the vast majority of people are fucking stupid so I think there are voices from that group that need to be heard
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:26 pm
Boris is taking a shooing in the Commons right now. He looks broken and his backbenchers spineless. I suppose they're banking that in the end he'll wiggle out when the issue fades by the next election.
All the politicos are saying it was much tamer than last time and he more or less sailed through it
Last time around they thought they had credible replacements for him; but his agents have done a wonderful job of destroying Richie Richs career, & now the MPs know they're stuck with him.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:26 pm
Boris is taking a shooing in the Commons right now. He looks broken and his backbenchers spineless. I suppose they're banking that in the end he'll wiggle out when the issue fades by the next election.
All the politicos are saying it was much tamer than last time and he more or less sailed through it
hmm, for me Starmer was much more impressive this time around
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:26 pm
Boris is taking a shooing in the Commons right now. He looks broken and his backbenchers spineless. I suppose they're banking that in the end he'll wiggle out when the issue fades by the next election.
All the politicos are saying it was much tamer than last time and he more or less sailed through it
hmm, for me Starmer was much more impressive this time around
I like that he always contrasts the human tragedy that real people had to deal with, while Downing Street were having piss ups on a weekly basis.
It reminds people of that lie, that; "we're all in this together"
C4 made some good points; pointing out that the Tory back benches cleared out very quickly, & didn't stick around to support him once he'd answered the initial retorts to his ... apology
They also said that the Tory back benchers weren't happy that the vote on Thursday was under a three line whip !
Memories of Owen Patterson are too fresh, & they don't want to look like mugs again next week, if another two or three FPNs come the cunts way, & they've just given him their approval on the voting record.
I find the idea there's kompromat on Boris weird - he's just been outed as having broken the law and lied to Parliament about it, his finances are a mess, he has multiple children with multiple women etc etc, what do they think is being held back that he's scared of?
Dodgy photos from parties at Lebedev's parties in Italy will probably be kicking around? Rory Stewart refused an invitation despite being told there would be 'lots of girls' at the party and that Boris was attending? Lebedev's father was senior officer in KGB in London, you don't walk away from a job like that, ever!
He's a serial philanderer and likes parties. He doesn't have a reputation to protect and is shameless. I don't think photos of him snorting coke off a dwarf prostitute would have any impact at all.
I don't disagree with the sentiment but its not the photos that are the issue it is who has them and how they have been using them that's more important! To have a UK PM compromised in such a way would be pretty devastating.
