NPR

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:53 am Also worth saying that Toony got all the big calls right again.

Fagerson at 8, White at 9, Tuipoolotu came on at just the right time and rattled them a bit

Fagerson was really good last year Vs England too. He's a great 8 for a game we don't have a lot of ball as he plays well in defence and at the breakdown.

But against Wales next week when we have more ball he isn't going to punch many holes - that's not his game. He's great for Glasgow at 6 with Dempsey as the 8.

The problem Scotland have is: Ritchie, Fagerson, Crosbie, Bayliss, Christie are probably long term 6 or 7. But relying on Bradbury at 8. Or Dempsey - however I reckon Rennie might/should call him up.

How many years is it since Watson missed a tackle now?

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:49 am

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:26 am

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:53 am Tuipoolotu came on at just the right time and rattled them a bit

I thought he did little. But I know I'm not a huge fan so I checked the stats:
1 carry for 3 yards and no tackles.

Oh. I’m quite surprised at that, was sure I remembered him crashing a couple up, obviously not!

We just didn't use our centres at all. 7 touches in 80min for the 3 of them.

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:48 pm

Doesn't make sense to me why the skycam isn't used to by the TMO to show such blatant foul play. If props new the ref is watching the bind and the feet and the TMO is watching the angle they wouldn't do this.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:57 am How many years is it since Watson missed a tackle now?

I think Curry missed more tackles yesterday than Watson has since the start of 2018.

SomersetJock wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:20 am Well I enjoyed that a lot more this morning than I did watching it live. My reaction after the match was that we had somehow scraped a win having been battered. Am now of the thinking that it was a very impressive win based on fantastic defence. And very good line breaks leading to points on the rare occasions we got some possession.

Watched it in a pub surrounded by Wales fans, they made a Hell of a lot more noise for our game than they did for their own

I was stuck in Covid jail! I’m out today though and the lateral flow was finally negative. Looking forward to Parc Eirias on Friday

Ashman off after 35 minutes for sale? Injured?

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:57 am How many years is it since Watson missed a tackle now?

I'm afraid I was a bit harsh on Watson yesterday. His work rate is immense but your expectations of him are so high you want to see him nicking a few turnovers which he didn't do yesterday.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:57 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:48 pm

Doesn't make sense to me why the skycam isn't used to by the TMO to show such blatant foul play. If props new the ref is watching the bind and the feet and the TMO is watching the angle they wouldn't do this.

Good point, especially when it could be a game changing moment. A couple of us called this yesterday, Schoeman is absolutely mincing the TH and Marler has lost his shape completely.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:47 am That was far from a complete performance but grinding out a win v England is commendable. Tandy needs a raise.

I think that is my positive. We used to fear England and the depth they have but not anymore. I think England played very well yesterday but still got beaten by a far below their best Scotland.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:34 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:57 am How many years is it since Watson missed a tackle now?

I'm afraid I was a bit harsh on Watson yesterday. His work rate is immense but your expectations of him are so high you want to see him nicking a few turnovers which he didn't do yesterday.

To be blunt, not missing tackles is commendable but he got carried back a long way on a few of them.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:47 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:34 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:57 am How many years is it since Watson missed a tackle now?

I'm afraid I was a bit harsh on Watson yesterday. His work rate is immense but your expectations of him are so high you want to see him nicking a few turnovers which he didn't do yesterday.

To be blunt, not missing tackles is commendable but he got carried back a long way on a few of them.

you guys…

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:13 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:47 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:34 pm

I'm afraid I was a bit harsh on Watson yesterday. His work rate is immense but your expectations of him are so high you want to see him nicking a few turnovers which he didn't do yesterday.

To be blunt, not missing tackles is commendable but he got carried back a long way on a few of them.

you guys…

? There's just one of me. I don't think Watson (a player I rate hugely) had a great game. I literally watched those tackles and was surprised.

There’s a slightly odd rumour doing the rounds (courtesy of the rugby paper) that Huw Jones is coming back to Glasgow. I’m not sure it’s best for Glasgow or Huw tbh.

Also, some good analysis going about on Scotland’s first try. It was very pre-planned, with Turner dropping into the backfield specifically to take a quick throw:





Big fan of Zander telling dinner time viewers on BT Sport that the lads ripped the arse out of their celebrations last night too. Good fun all round.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:26 pm There’s a slightly odd rumour doing the rounds (courtesy of the rugby paper) that Huw Jones is coming back to Glasgow. I’m not sure it’s best for Glasgow or Huw tbh.

I think its a good move if the money is right.

Zander had me giggling for quite a while

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:36 pm Zander had me giggling for quite a while

The six nations review show was good. A very funny comment.

Watching the extended highlights I also have to say I enjoyed that the world's best player who ever lived and living God Marcus Smith missed touch from a penalty. If he got that they probably win... Funny none of the journos waxing lyrical about "England's spark" mentioned it. Or they had all the ball and sparked once. Wouldn't be like them to massively overate a player of course.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:45 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:36 pm Zander had me giggling for quite a while

The six nations review show was good. A very funny comment.

Watching the extended highlights I also have to say I enjoyed that the world's best player who ever lived and living God Marcus Smith missed touch from a penalty. If he got that they probably win... Funny none of the journos waxing lyrical about "England's spark" mentioned it. Or they had all the ball and sparked once. Wouldn't be like them to massively overate a player of course.

IMO it’s a big issue for England, they constantly overhype players. From what I’ve seen of Smith he looks fine, but nothing particularly special for an international 10. Lots of overhyped players in an overhyped league.

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:54 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:45 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:36 pm Zander had me giggling for quite a while

The six nations review show was good. A very funny comment.

Watching the extended highlights I also have to say I enjoyed that the world's best player who ever lived and living God Marcus Smith missed touch from a penalty. If he got that they probably win... Funny none of the journos waxing lyrical about "England's spark" mentioned it. Or they had all the ball and sparked once. Wouldn't be like them to massively overate a player of course.

IMO it’s a big issue for England, they constantly overhype players. From what I’ve seen of Smith he looks fine, but nothing particularly special for an international 10. Lots of overhyped players in an overhyped league.

I honestly think it’s the 3rd best league in Europe. Smith is good, especially for his age, but he’s not the messiah yet. Tom Curry another, an excellent player but comparisons to Richie McCaw just a little premature. Both will probably retire legends of the game, but they aren’t that yet.

Smith's England performances have been overhyped, yeah. Though he's been thrown into some pretty tough situations so far and done pretty well. The hype exists for a reason, and weirdly the journos who are banging on about how good he was seem to misunderstand what makes him different to most players, because frankly we've seen very little of it for England so far.

Think you guys might be overreacting to a missed touch where he went for broke though. Not like we haven't seen a certain someone do that fairly often over the last few years, shit-eating grin and all!

I had completely forgotten about that missed touch until it was brought up to be honest. And I suspect the point of it being raised was exactly because of someone else doing it on occasion

“Going for broke” at that point in the game was pretty dumb in itself really

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:15 pm I had completely forgotten about that missed touch until it was brought up to be honest. And I suspect the point of it being raised was exactly because of someone else doing it on occasion

“Going for broke” at that point in the game was pretty dumb in itself really

Why's that? We'd failed to get much distance on kicks for touch prior to that leaving our maul with too much to do - seemed reasonable to try and get it to the 5m line.

Ford came on and nudged late penalties about 10m upfield from easier positions, which I suspect had a little more impact on our failure to win the game, albeit that the failure had a lot of reasons (many of them to do with Scotland, of course).

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:05 pm Smith's England performances have been overhyped, yeah. Though he's been thrown into some pretty tough situations so far and done pretty well. The hype exists for a reason, and weirdly the journos who are banging on about how good he was seem to misunderstand what makes him different to most players, because frankly we've seen very little of it for England so far.

Think you guys might be overreacting to a missed touch where he went for broke though. Not like we haven't seen a certain someone do that fairly often over the last few years, shit-eating grin and all!

And when Russell misses touch it's a talking point. If it's not fans of other nations saying this is why he isn't good it's Scotland fans getting angry at him.

I'm just saying England's maul was on top all game, it's probably a try/penalty/yellow card if he gets it even 10 out. That type of error is probably why Ford came on. But nobody seems to mention it as all the comments are about how good he was. Quite how good a 10 is when his team have all the ball and they score one (an admittedly good) try is a bit beyond me. The rugby paper had two columns saying how good he was. He's in rugbypass' team of the week! It's all a bit silly. He was fine considering it's his first six nations game. But, ultimately had the chances to win the game for England and squandered them. You'd hope he gets better.

And Russell outplayed him, as you'd expect.

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:15 pm I had completely forgotten about that missed touch until it was brought up to be honest. And I suspect the point of it being raised was exactly because of someone else doing it on occasion

“Going for broke” at that point in the game was pretty dumb in itself really

I think we are forgetting that Finn missed one on Saturday as well, and it was a howler.

Smith is the real deal, I've been watching him since he was 18, he is the reason I try to watch Quins. I can't really think of one single player who took to international rugby fully formed, Dan Carter started at inside centre before they trusted him to run the show.

Rugby Pass came up with best debuts and they include the like of Isreal Falou and Julian Savea, I don't remember their debuts but I'll take their word for it, let's just say it's unusual and more so at ten, oh hang on, Redpath was really good last year, but whatever, it's unusual.

Smith is one of the few I'd take from the England squad, not to replace Finn, but to take over eventually. Itoje would be the other, he'd walk straight in.

Put Smith in a team coached by Toonie and we'd see something

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:06 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:05 pm Smith's England performances have been overhyped, yeah. Though he's been thrown into some pretty tough situations so far and done pretty well. The hype exists for a reason, and weirdly the journos who are banging on about how good he was seem to misunderstand what makes him different to most players, because frankly we've seen very little of it for England so far.

Think you guys might be overreacting to a missed touch where he went for broke though. Not like we haven't seen a certain someone do that fairly often over the last few years, shit-eating grin and all!

And when Russell misses touch it's a talking point. If it's not fans of other nations saying this is why he isn't good it's Scotland fans getting angry at him.

I'm just saying England's maul was on top all game, it's probably a try/penalty/yellow card if he gets it even 10 out. That type of error is probably why Ford came on. But nobody seems to mention it as all the comments are about how good he was. Quite how good a 10 is when his team have all the ball and they score one (an admittedly good) try is a bit beyond me. The rugby paper had two columns saying how good he was. He's in rugbypass' team of the week! It's all a bit silly. He was fine considering it's his first six nations game. But, ultimately had the chances to win the game for England and squandered them. You'd hope he gets better.

And Russell outplayed him, as you'd expect.

Indeed, it’s the dichotomous views that prevail in describing players that grate. They are either the best in the world or utterly horrible. I think Smith is very good, but the English view of his quality is being overblown because he is performing in a sub-standard league. I doubt he could do it every week like he does in the Prem in the URC

At 21 Smith is showing many attributes that suggest he will be a top player and it’s totally fine to be excited about him, but to put it in context, The current level of hype started before he had played for England or indeed the Lions. The hype that he was one of the best in the world started when he was in a position similar to Rory Darge. Nobody in Scotland is saying Darge is the best 7 in the world. I’m sure you’ll disagree with all that, but that is the general perception of the English media tbh.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:30 am Smith is the real deal, I've been watching him since he was 18, he is the reason I try to watch Quins. I can't really think of one single player who took to international rugby fully formed, Dan Carter started at inside centre before they trusted him to run the show.

Rugby Pass came up with best debuts and they include the like of Isreal Falou and Julian Savea, I don't remember their debuts but I'll take their word for it, let's just say it's unusual and more so at ten, oh hang on, Redpath was really good last year, but whatever, it's unusual.

Smith is one of the few I'd take from the England squad, not to replace Finn, but to take over eventually. Itoje would be the other, he'd walk straight in.

Put Smith in a team coached by Toonie and we'd see something

Sure, but there's a difference between one day being very good and on the day being very good. Smith wasn't very good against Scotland but dominates the storyline. It's a shame about to be fair doesn't do him justice because for Quins he was superb last year. With Danny Care inside him, the best 9 in England.

Oh and I'm sure his debut against the checks notes... the United States ... was very worthy of being on that list. Although they should've made that barbarians game he played a capped international and they'd have Ben White.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:06 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:05 pm Smith's England performances have been overhyped, yeah. Though he's been thrown into some pretty tough situations so far and done pretty well. The hype exists for a reason, and weirdly the journos who are banging on about how good he was seem to misunderstand what makes him different to most players, because frankly we've seen very little of it for England so far.

Think you guys might be overreacting to a missed touch where he went for broke though. Not like we haven't seen a certain someone do that fairly often over the last few years, shit-eating grin and all!

And when Russell misses touch it's a talking point. If it's not fans of other nations saying this is why he isn't good it's Scotland fans getting angry at him.

I'm just saying England's maul was on top all game, it's probably a try/penalty/yellow card if he gets it even 10 out. That type of error is probably why Ford came on. But nobody seems to mention it as all the comments are about how good he was. Quite how good a 10 is when his team have all the ball and they score one (an admittedly good) try is a bit beyond me. The rugby paper had two columns saying how good he was. He's in rugbypass' team of the week! It's all a bit silly. He was fine considering it's his first six nations game. But, ultimately had the chances to win the game for England and squandered them. You'd hope he gets better.

And Russell outplayed him, as you'd expect.

No-one's talking about Russell missing touch in the same game. Ford came on and blew chances by dobbing the ball a few metres forward into touch instead of getting anywhere near the 5m line. I dunno man, I'm not sure that narrative holds up. Especially given the strange way in which the media all commented on Smith's missed cross-kick like they expect him to nail it every time no matter the conditions.

Like I said, I don't think he deserves the praise he's getting for this match and it baffles me that the journos are wanking over what was a middling performance from him (IMO). We agree there! Though I do think England only scoring one try is more down to Daly, Slade, Malins, Marchant, and Steward all preferring to kick good attacking ball rather than hold onto it. God knows we made space enough times only to do that.

Anyway I'm never going to convince non-English people about Smith - and let's face it, if he doesn't do the same things at international level that he's been doing at club level since he was a teenager then why should people be convinced? - but there's little doubt the hype is based on actual things he's done on the field over the last 3-4 years and I don't think the sourness is earned. He's really good (and no, not just in the Prem - he's bailed us out in Europe time and again and made very good teams look silly in the process) and the most exciting talent we've developed for a very long time. Hopefully he'll start producing a more all round game soon and you'll see what the fuss is all about :)

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:39 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:15 pm I had completely forgotten about that missed touch until it was brought up to be honest. And I suspect the point of it being raised was exactly because of someone else doing it on occasion

“Going for broke” at that point in the game was pretty dumb in itself really

Why's that? We'd failed to get much distance on kicks for touch prior to that leaving our maul with too much to do - seemed reasonable to try and get it to the 5m line.

Ford came on and nudged late penalties about 10m upfield from easier positions, which I suspect had a little more impact on our failure to win the game, albeit that the failure had a lot of reasons (many of them to do with Scotland, of course).

Because you were 10-14 up (I think) and had all the momentum, your maul and lineout had been doing fine all afternoon. There was absolutely no need to go for the big one. Get it into the 22 and keep the pressure on was the correct call.

Edit: I genuinely don't think there is any sourness or animosity towards Smith himself.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:30 am Smith is the real deal, I've been watching him since he was 18, he is the reason I try to watch Quins. I can't really think of one single player who took to international rugby fully formed, Dan Carter started at inside centre before they trusted him to run the show.

Rugby Pass came up with best debuts and they include the like of Isreal Falou and Julian Savea, I don't remember their debuts but I'll take their word for it, let's just say it's unusual and more so at ten, oh hang on, Redpath was really good last year, but whatever, it's unusual.

Smith is one of the few I'd take from the England squad, not to replace Finn, but to take over eventually. Itoje would be the other, he'd walk straight in.

Put Smith in a team coached by Toonie and we'd see something

Itoje would definitely walk into our team, and most other teams at the moment, but, and I appreciate this is blasphemy, I do think he is also slightly overhyped by supporters and media. he is probably at the top of the 2nd level of 2nd rows in the modern (ish) era but I'm not sure people will still be talking about him like they do with Martin Johnson, Paul O'Connell, Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, John Eales, AWJ, Fabien Pelous, Olivier Roumat, Grant Gilchrist, Brodie Retallick and Sam Whitelock.

double

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:35 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:39 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:15 pm I had completely forgotten about that missed touch until it was brought up to be honest. And I suspect the point of it being raised was exactly because of someone else doing it on occasion

“Going for broke” at that point in the game was pretty dumb in itself really

Why's that? We'd failed to get much distance on kicks for touch prior to that leaving our maul with too much to do - seemed reasonable to try and get it to the 5m line.

Ford came on and nudged late penalties about 10m upfield from easier positions, which I suspect had a little more impact on our failure to win the game, albeit that the failure had a lot of reasons (many of them to do with Scotland, of course).

Because you were 10-14 up (I think) and had all the momentum, your maul and lineout had been doing fine all afternoon. There was absolutely no need to go for the big one. Get it into the 22 and keep the pressure on was the correct call.

Edit: I genuinely don't think there is any sourness or animosity towards Smith himself.

We'd not actually done a whole lot from those mauls partly because of the lack of distance, imo.

For the last part, I'm sure you can see where neeps' comments might read a little sour...

Nicely done Slick.

Not sour, just bored. I too enjoyed Quins ascent last year hugely, I watch the premiership weekly and have tickets to the final which I attend with my friends as an annual event (last two covid meant sadly missed out). And would be good if Quins are at that level again in the final.

But it's annoying that after the game on Saturday most commentary is on Smith, who didn't really have a good game. England had the majority of possession, they had all the territory, 64% of their rucks were under 3 seconds so they had quick ball all game. That is the ideal platform for a 10. Really you couldn't ask for much more.

And what's to show for it? One good try off the back off a maul that was rampaging forwards and very little threat otherwise. I just don't understand why we're all clambering over ourselves to say how good this guy is.

Happens all the time with English players and the media. A guy with a lot of potential is ordained as the best player and we hear about him endlessly. Until they decide he hasn't lived up to their unrealistic expectation and tear him to shreds. Rinse and repeat.

I mean, that definitely sounds like you're a little sour about it! :)

England's outside backs kept kicking the ball away in good attacking positions, seemingly under Eddie's orders. I don't think that's on Smith - his job is to create the space, it's not on him to make Elliot Daly pass or run.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:44 am Nicely done Slick.

Yes, it was rather, err, slick