Well destroying HAMAS and not having a plan is going to make things even worse. Israel surely have an obligation to rebuild the areas they have razed. Or at least allow building materials etc through.
20 lorries...being allowed to bring in aid. what a ridiculously small amount of aid.
You would think Egypt don't want to assist their neighbours
Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:29 pm
Your specific policing on one side is what shows your bias, whilst pretending to be neutral. I’m not claiming to be neutral, especially after what happened.
I shall post as I like from wherever I find relevant videos/images. If the words in the twitter post don’t resonate with you, then feel free to ignore them/disagree with them as others might.
So, kind of a long winded way of saying stick it, you utter hypocrite.
Now you may go …
If you post links I'll look at the source, your last one was from a guy who called in an airstrike that resulted in the killing of dozens of civilians, the info is in the link I posted, along with info on his right wing affiliations. That doesn't make what he posted incorrect of course, but it might be worth considering where he is coming from on this, for context.
The "now you may go" arrogance is something, though.
edit, the part I referred to is here
One of Bennett's actions as a commando officer became highly controversial. During Operation Grapes of Wrath, while leading a force of 67 Maglan soldiers operating in southern Lebanon, Bennett radioed for support after his unit came under mortar fire. The IDF launched an artillery barrage to cover his force, and the shelling hit a United Nations compound in which civilians were taking refuge, an incident that became known as the Qana massacre. A total of 106 Lebanese civilians were killed
Yes it doesn’t mean what he posted was incorrect. Neither did I purport accuracy, given the state of things. And still failed to respond as to why only one side is being post policed, given the actual comments by those posters, themselves !!! Zip.
I note those apologies are certainly flooding in.
Bunch of Corbyns.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:24 am
by Raggs
C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:37 am
Well destroying HAMAS and not having a plan is going to make things even worse. Israel surely have an obligation to rebuild the areas they have razed. Or at least allow building materials etc through.
20 lorries...being allowed to bring in aid. what a ridiculously small amount of aid.
You would think Egypt don't want to assist their neighbours
I'm afraid the Israeli government don't let me know the plan.
As always, I wonder where the international outburst over Egypt doing fuck all is. Nations at war don't typically supply each other with food, fuel, water and electricity. And this is nations at war. The number of people that don't seem to realise that hamas are the Gazan government is surprising, though I suppose it shouldn't be as it's rarely reported that way.
C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:37 am
Well destroying HAMAS and not having a plan is going to make things even worse. Israel surely have an obligation to rebuild the areas they have razed. Or at least allow building materials etc through.
20 lorries...being allowed to bring in aid. what a ridiculously small amount of aid.
You would think Egypt don't want to assist their neighbours
I'm afraid the Israeli government don't let me know the plan.
As always, I wonder where the international outburst over Egypt doing fuck all is. Nations at war don't typically supply each other with food, fuel, water and electricity. And this is nations at war. The number of people that don't seem to realise that hamas are the Gazan government is surprising, though I suppose it shouldn't be as it's rarely reported that way.
Yes, it's certainly all Egypt's fault that Israel are conducting what looks like all out war on the civilians of Gaza and we should all join in condemning Egypt for that.
I'm afraid the Israeli government don't let me know the plan.
As always, I wonder where the international outburst over Egypt doing fuck all is. Nations at war don't typically supply each other with food, fuel, water and electricity. And this is nations at war. The number of people that don't seem to realise that hamas are the Gazan government is surprising, though I suppose it shouldn't be as it's rarely reported that way.
Yes, it's certainly all Egypt's fault that Israel are conducting what looks like all out war on the civilians of Gaza and we should all join in condemning Egypt for that.
If you don't know Egypt and Jordan's and the various other local actors role in all this you haven't been paying attention either in this thread or in life
Absolutely. We should all be thoroughly acquainted with that great ME game, whatabout. How long has Israel been the world champion now?
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:02 am
by Raggs
Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:32 am
Yes, it's certainly all Egypt's fault that Israel are conducting what looks like all out war on the civilians of Gaza and we should all join in condemning Egypt for that.
What does war on a city normally look like? How often do the enemy give a large period of time to the opposition civilians to leave?
And if Israel is getting stick for not supplying their opponents, why shouldn't Egypt also?
Yes it doesn’t mean what he posted was incorrect. Neither did I purport accuracy, given the state of things. And still failed to respond as to why only one side is being post policed, given the actual comments by those posters, themselves !!! Zip.
I note those apologies are certainly flooding in.
Bunch of Corbyns.
I'll repeat my question, do you think it's important or not important at all to consider the source of the links you post?
I'll answer it myself to make it easier for you, I think it's very important that all sources are considered and given proper attribution in a thread such as this, misinformation from any side doesn't help at all.
What are the apologies supposed to be for? Has there been definite confirmation of any of the incidents that are being discussed? Suppose it comes to light that Hamas was ultimately responsible for the missile that hit the hospital and killing many people, doesn't that just suggest that the sources that said otherwise were wrong and that it would have been helpful to have known who was saying this, what their motivation might be?
Why post something if you are unsure of its accuracy? Isn't that just potentially yet more misinformation?
Again with the arrogant jibe at the end of the post.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:02 am
by Ymx
I think it’s important to cite the source of the information. The source of it is implicit in the post. It’s up to the reader to decide the legitimacy of it. Where there are videos there is “usually” less room for interpretation.
All of the Twitter posts will come from one side of the fence or the other. That’s pretty much the nature of social media.
Again, take a look at the posts above about The Hague comment for the Israeli Prime Minister, and the comment only just above about Israel conducting war on civilians.
C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:37 am
Well destroying HAMAS and not having a plan is going to make things even worse. Israel surely have an obligation to rebuild the areas they have razed. Or at least allow building materials etc through.
20 lorries...being allowed to bring in aid. what a ridiculously small amount of aid.
You would think Egypt don't want to assist their neighbours
I'm afraid the Israeli government don't let me know the plan.
As always, I wonder where the international outburst over Egypt doing fuck all is. Nations at war don't typically supply each other with food, fuel, water and electricity. And this is nations at war. The number of people that don't seem to realise that hamas are the Gazan government is surprising, though I suppose it shouldn't be as it's rarely reported that way.
Yes, it's certainly all Egypt's fault that Israel are conducting what looks like all out war on the civilians of Gaza and we should all join in condemning Egypt for that.
I was under the impression that Hamas started the war, or was last week just a Special Military Operation.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:20 am
by Tichtheid
Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:02 am
I think it’s important to cite the source of the information. The source of it is implicit in the post. It’s up to the reader to decide the legitimacy of it. Where there are videos there is “usually” less room for interpretation.
All of the Twitter posts will come from one side of the fence or the other. That’s pretty much the nature of social media.
Again, take a look at the posts above about The Hague comment for the Israeli Prime Minister, and the comment only just above about Israel conducting war on civilians.
Still absolutely nothing ….
What exactly are you waiting for?
It's impossible to tell what is going on whilst these events are taking place, it's only afterwards that people can be held to account, if at all.
Here's an Associated Press article on war crimes as related to the current conflict, AP is supposedly slightly left leaning
C69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:37 am
Well destroying HAMAS and not having a plan is going to make things even worse. Israel surely have an obligation to rebuild the areas they have razed. Or at least allow building materials etc through.
20 lorries...being allowed to bring in aid. what a ridiculously small amount of aid.
You would think Egypt don't want to assist their neighbours
I'm afraid the Israeli government don't let me know the plan.
As always, I wonder where the international outburst over Egypt doing fuck all is. Nations at war don't typically supply each other with food, fuel, water and electricity. And this is nations at war. The number of people that don't seem to realise that hamas are the Gazan government is surprising, though I suppose it shouldn't be as it's rarely reported that way.
I was quite surprised at this reaction. One of the main tactics of any conflict is deny your enemy resources. Again I find it odd how people expect Israel to respond. It's horrific to see so many innocents caught up in it but what else can they do in response.
Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:02 am
I think it’s important to cite the source of the information. The source of it is implicit in the post. It’s up to the reader to decide the legitimacy of it. Where there are videos there is “usually” less room for interpretation.
All of the Twitter posts will come from one side of the fence or the other. That’s pretty much the nature of social media.
Again, take a look at the posts above about The Hague comment for the Israeli Prime Minister, and the comment only just above about Israel conducting war on civilians.
Still absolutely nothing ….
What exactly are you waiting for?
It's impossible to tell what is going on whilst these events are taking place, it's only afterwards that people can be held to account, if at all.
Here's an Associated Press article on war crimes as related to the current conflict, AP is supposedly slightly left leaning
From you, an explanation why you have only critiqued posts defending Israel. Especially so, given the extreme unbalanced nature of those posts I quoted, which you never pulled up as misinformation.
From the others, an acknowledgment that they hugely jumped the gun with their venomous comments. As goeagles suggested would unlikely be forthcoming.
Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:02 am
I think it’s important to cite the source of the information. The source of it is implicit in the post. It’s up to the reader to decide the legitimacy of it. Where there are videos there is “usually” less room for interpretation.
All of the Twitter posts will come from one side of the fence or the other. That’s pretty much the nature of social media.
Again, take a look at the posts above about The Hague comment for the Israeli Prime Minister, and the comment only just above about Israel conducting war on civilians.
Still absolutely nothing ….
What exactly are you waiting for?
It's impossible to tell what is going on whilst these events are taking place, it's only afterwards that people can be held to account, if at all.
Here's an Associated Press article on war crimes as related to the current conflict, AP is supposedly slightly left leaning
From you, an explanation why you have only critiqued posts defending Israel. Especially so, given the extreme unbalanced nature of those posts I quoted, which you never pulled up as misinformation.
From the others, an acknowledgment that they hugely jumped the gun with their venomous comments. As goeagles suggested would unlikely be forthcoming.
The detail is important here.
The posts that so enraged you weren't from sources, they were the opinions of posters, everyone is free to argue them or not. Not arguing them can't be seen as anything other than not arguing them.
The part which seems to have gotten really under your skin is being pulled up for not making clear the position of the person making the tweet you linked to. There was some discussion earlier about whether a member of Hamas should be referred to as a "government official". I think that is a fair comment because it disguises the context of whatever that person says, it's the same with not attributing links in serious topics like this.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 12:42 pm
by Ymx
From Robby
“Used To Direct Stars, Now I Fight For Freedom • Cuban American • Director/Producer • Free Thinker • Proud Dad”
My issue with that is it follows the exact same line as the hard left in Ireland and elsewhere that being the response is always always over egged. It's always 100 of 1000's going to be killed or millions will die. It's nonsense. I don't really understand it but I suppose it follows their line that Jews are Nazis and are trying to kill 'em all in a genocidal fashion. Bollox but trotted out again and again
ER Private Eye is quite famous for its covers it is usually the voice of reason and sanity.
A bit disengenous to compare them to the hard left in Ireland..
Tbh what part of the front page do you disagree with.
That they are going to or are planning to kill everyone. I think it's a line repeatedly used against Jews. That they are now uncontrollable genocidal savages. They aren't.
That is a very daft take on that cover. Also I wouldn’t use the term Jews (I would carefully avoid it as did the private eye cover) and use the term Israelis. Not all Jews are Israelis. Going further I suspect a lot of Israelis are pretty unhappy with Netanyahu who like hamas seemed to be wanting to escalate things for his own political benefit and is partly responsible for this.
C69 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:16 pm
ER Private Eye is quite famous for its covers it is usually the voice of reason and sanity.
A bit disengenous to compare them to the hard left in Ireland..
Tbh what part of the front page do you disagree with.
That they are going to or are planning to kill everyone. I think it's a line repeatedly used against Jews. That they are now uncontrollable genocidal savages. They aren't.
That is a very daft take on that cover. Also I wouldn’t use the term Jews (I would carefully avoid it as did the private eye cover) and use the term Israelis. Not all Jews are Israelis. Going further I suspect a lot of Israelis are pretty unhappy with Netanyahu who like hamas seemed to be wanting to escalate things for his own political benefit and is partly responsible for this.
Why do you suspect that a lot of Israelis think that?? Where has this come from? Sources?
That they are going to or are planning to kill everyone. I think it's a line repeatedly used against Jews. That they are now uncontrollable genocidal savages. They aren't.
That is a very daft take on that cover. Also I wouldn’t use the term Jews (I would carefully avoid it as did the private eye cover) and use the term Israelis. Not all Jews are Israelis. Going further I suspect a lot of Israelis are pretty unhappy with Netanyahu who like hamas seemed to be wanting to escalate things for his own political benefit and is partly responsible for this.
Why do you suspect that a lot of Israelis think that?? Where has this come from? Sources?
Well they were unhappy with him before the war, they aren't going to like him any more with that failure. And when I say unhappy, I mean weekly protests up and down the country, with thousands of people in each, going on for the best part of a year.
That they are going to or are planning to kill everyone. I think it's a line repeatedly used against Jews. That they are now uncontrollable genocidal savages. They aren't.
That is a very daft take on that cover. Also I wouldn’t use the term Jews (I would carefully avoid it as did the private eye cover) and use the term Israelis. Not all Jews are Israelis. Going further I suspect a lot of Israelis are pretty unhappy with Netanyahu who like hamas seemed to be wanting to escalate things for his own political benefit and is partly responsible for this.
Why do you suspect that a lot of Israelis think that?? Where has this come from? Sources?
From the repeatedly attempts to try to get him out from certain factions of Israeli society. The problems with Netanyahu's judicial reforms and falling out with Israeli generals. Netanyahu positioning himself with the far right in Israel. The rumours about ignoring security warnings.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 1:01 pm
by Raggs
Oh, and the fact that they were routinely disarming soldiers before his visits to military camps in the last few months (again, before this war). Definitely not a popular man.
That is a very daft take on that cover. Also I wouldn’t use the term Jews (I would carefully avoid it as did the private eye cover) and use the term Israelis. Not all Jews are Israelis. Going further I suspect a lot of Israelis are pretty unhappy with Netanyahu who like hamas seemed to be wanting to escalate things for his own political benefit and is partly responsible for this.
Why do you suspect that a lot of Israelis think that?? Where has this come from? Sources?
From the repeatedly attempts to try to get him out from certain factions of Israeli society. The problems with Netanyahu's judicial reforms and falling out with Israeli generals. Netanyahu positioning himself with the far right in Israel. The rumours about ignoring security warnings.
Fair enough. I wasn’t sure if you were suggesting his response to the attacks were divisive. It’s not the impression I’ve taken from Israelis I’ve seen posting.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 1:07 pm
by Raggs
Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 1:02 pmFair enough. I wasn’t sure if you were suggesting his response to the attacks were divisive. It’s not the impression I’ve taken from Israelis I’ve seen posting.
Right now there'll be very very few Israeli's who don't know either someone who was killed/taken or it'll be family of a friend, then most are unsurprisingly not against rooting out Hamas entirely. As I said earlier, my brother in law and his family live in one of the kibbutzes that was attacked, and a friend of my wife knows at least 2 of her family were slaughtered. But that's a long way from being happy with Netanyahu.
It's a nation where instead of 6 degrees of separation to find a link, you can do it in just 2 or 3 for the vast majority of cases.
Oh I've just seen Israel have apparently accused the BBC of blood libel
I'm guessing it was the speed that the BBC posted it as genuine that Israel bombed the hospital with 500 deaths, and not long after put up another further report saying it absolutely must have been an Israeli bomb to cause all the destruction that's been reported, and cannot have been a misfired rocket.
Only in the light of day to come, and have it made pretty obvious this wasn't a large bomb, was likely to have been Hamas, the hospital hasn't been destroyed or badly damaged and many intelligence agencies are estimating closer to 10-50 deaths, rather than the 200-500-800 that Hamas reported.
Oh I've just seen Israel have apparently accused the BBC of blood libel
I'm guessing it was the speed that the BBC posted it as genuine that Israel bombed the hospital with 500 deaths, and not long after put up another further report saying it absolutely must have been an Israeli bomb to cause all the destruction that's been reported, and cannot have been a misfired rocket.
Only in the light of day to come, and have it made pretty obvious this wasn't a large bomb, was likely to have been Hamas, the hospital hasn't been destroyed or badly damaged and many intelligence agencies are estimating closer to 10-50 deaths, rather than the 200-500-800 that Hamas reported.
I'm not trusting anything put out by HAMAS or the IDF without incontrovertible truth.
Like other wars it will be years before we find a semblance of accuracy.
I can remember in the Iraq war the same mantra that civilians are not targeted and these are precision strikes with UK media showing time and time again individuals and specific cars and houses being surgically struck. No civilians being killed.
It was proved to be bullshit and people who questioned this were said to support Sadam.
Trying to wade through all the propaganda is a thankless task.
Many just believe what their narrative wants.
I prefer to have healthy scepticism of both sides.
And a disdain for terrorists and those that display acts of terror on normal people and civilians.
HAMAS and the IDF do not give a shit about civilian deaths.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:33 pm
by C69
EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:35 pm
That is patently untrue or there would be more deaths than there have been c69. Again you are using words to.convey a feeling not a fact
I'm not going to play death top trumps with you.
Any civilian death is unacceptable, for the record what is untrue?
That they are going to or are planning to kill everyone. I think it's a line repeatedly used against Jews. That they are now uncontrollable genocidal savages. They aren't.
That is a very daft take on that cover. Also I wouldn’t use the term Jews (I would carefully avoid it as did the private eye cover) and use the term Israelis. Not all Jews are Israelis. Going further I suspect a lot of Israelis are pretty unhappy with Netanyahu who like hamas seemed to be wanting to escalate things for his own political benefit and is partly responsible for this.
Why do you suspect that a lot of Israelis think that?? Where has this come from? Sources?
The Israelis I work with detest him.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:18 pm
by Uncle fester
EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:13 pm
US tells all it's citizens to leave the Leb
That is a very daft take on that cover. Also I wouldn’t use the term Jews (I would carefully avoid it as did the private eye cover) and use the term Israelis. Not all Jews are Israelis. Going further I suspect a lot of Israelis are pretty unhappy with Netanyahu who like hamas seemed to be wanting to escalate things for his own political benefit and is partly responsible for this.
Why do you suspect that a lot of Israelis think that?? Where has this come from? Sources?
The Israelis I work with detest him.
Yeah, I know our experience with Israelis overlaps, but it's basically the people who work in Israel, & resent how Likud & particularly Bibi fucked their futures, to buy off the worst of the shithead Haredi cults, to secure HIS position, to buy off a group who don't pay taxes, don't do military service, & contribute absolutely nothing to the society that supports them entirely.
There are a few good videos out there on youtube explaining the demographic death spiral that the Haredi are condemning Israel to, if they don't shake off the own religious fundamentalists.
Why do you suspect that a lot of Israelis think that?? Where has this come from? Sources?
The Israelis I work with detest him.
Yeah, I know our experience with Israelis overlaps, but it's basically the people who work in Israel, & resent how Likud & particularly Bibi fucked their futures, to buy off the worst of the shithead Haredi cults, to secure HIS position, to buy off a group who don't pay taxes, don't do military service, & contribute absolutely nothing to the society that supports them entirely.
There are a few good videos out there on youtube explaining the demographic death spiral that the Haredi are condemning Israel to, if they don't shake off the own religious fundamentalists.
Their foolish choice not to spend 3 years living and working with hot, single Israeli women.
EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:13 pm
US tells all it's citizens to leave the Leb
Bit disappointing to see that you're one of them.
It's the Leb and Lebanon. Have you had no friends go over there on a jolly to earn a deposit for a house, I mean bravely serve the world security apparatus
Why do you suspect that a lot of Israelis think that?? Where has this come from? Sources?
The Israelis I work with detest him.
Yeah, I know our experience with Israelis overlaps, but it's basically the people who work in Israel, & resent how Likud & particularly Bibi fucked their futures, to buy off the worst of the shithead Haredi cults, to secure HIS position, to buy off a group who don't pay taxes, don't do military service, & contribute absolutely nothing to the society that supports them entirely.
There are a few good videos out there on youtube explaining the demographic death spiral that the Haredi are condemning Israel to, if they don't shake off the own religious fundamentalists.
Yeah, maybe we don't have the best sample. One of them has a son writing articles for Jerusalem post excoriating Bibi for what he's doing.
Their views on Arab people in general though.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:40 am
by Raggs
Don't know how many you know, but everyone we met in our last visit to see family and friends, had a good old rueful chuckle when we pointed out that at least we still lived in a democracy in the UK, even the randoms. Like I said, they were literally disarming soldiers before he visited them. He was not, and certainly still won't be, a popular figure.
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:18 pm
by ASMO
One of the most shocking interviews i have ever seen i think
Re: Kicking off in Israel
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:50 pm
by shaggy
ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:18 pm
One of the most shocking interviews i have ever seen i think
Caroline Glick on Sky News earlier is a hot contender for that description.
I am not watching it so be a tad more specific.
Who was the nut Burley or the IDF woman!
The ambassador is clearly upset but Burley wants to make a point about not going too hard in Gaza. She does a shit job amd everyone pretty much agrees with that
I am not watching it so be a tad more specific.
Who was the nut Burley or the IDF woman!
The ambassador is clearly upset but Burley wants to make a point about not going too hard in Gaza. She does a shit job amd everyone pretty much agrees with that
what a ridiculously small amount of aid.
• Director/Producer • Free Thinker • Proud Dad”
Couldn't happen to a nicer prick