Le Taupe XIV et la mégalomanie d'un secretaire d'état ripoux

[TheFrog]

14 consecutive victories.

Not bad.

Hope the boys raise the standards, intensity and accuracy and take us to 15 next week.

[TheFrog]

Gaël Fickou (France)
Not France’s best day at the office by any means, but Fickou continues to show both his class and experience. He may not have gotten his name on the scoreboard, but he’s often that guy to get the ball over the advantage line. His six defenders beaten was the most of the match and on two occasions his strong carries forward happened one phase before a French try

An area of his game though which he consistently excels and is less flashy is his defence. In this game France were required to do a lot of defending and Fickou led the way for the French backs. Credited with 15 tackles and none missed, that gives him more tackles than any other back this weekend.

[Torquemada 1420]

Jalibert plays for 15min. Hard to assess him. He is the best attacking FH, I won't deny that. Is he better than Ntamack at managing a whole game under pressure? I am not sure. But I confess I don't watch Bordeauz.

Ntamack created two tries, didn't miss a tackle, made a crucial intercept, and varied the game.

Then players running isolated were not Ntamack's making. Often they were forwards isolating themselves, feeding off a pass directly from the ruck.

Ntamack did not create 2 tries. The fwds created both by generating the overlaps.
- the 1st one, Ntamack got lucky. He blew what was effectively a 3 on 1 by running sideways (again) and the kick gave Capuzzo a chance to cover it. It was only because the lad was so small** that Penaud forced him off it and the overlap was still there for Ramos on the loose ball which could have gone anywhere. It was poor vision, poor decision making and average execution. He didn't run it because he no longer runs anything. Even then, Ramos almost screwed it up.
- 2nd one, again Italy way too narrow due to the fwds drawing them in. This time Ntamack gets a free play: it's a pen which means he can kick it away with impunity. His kick is spot on but it was routine stuff and nowhere near as difficult as, say, Smith's one against Sco. And it's another thing he ALWAYS does now. Whenever there is a pen adv with Fra or Toulouse on the offensive, he immediately kicks it away. Most of the time is simply wastes possession so when it comes off 1 in however many, that's not exactly news.

**if that had been Hogg, Steward, Sanjay or Keenan, it would not have been a try. And please don't tell me Ntamack had assessed that Capuzzo was vulnerable due to his height: he was kicking that away regardless of whoever the opposition was.

Yes. He makes his tackles. Which is something I always credit him for. So what? He is expected to do that. Yes, he is a better defender than Jalibert (indeed, a better tackler than any of the other FH options to France) but that marginal gain is massively outweighed by his deficiencies.

You think he varied the game? If you mean for the first 20 it was all wild passing followed by 45 minutes of aimless kicking (the norm), then yes, he did. I'm not interested in variance. I'm interested in effectiveness. Sexton never varies his game: he just does what he does well. France almost lost. Again. Until Ntamack was removed. Again. This has happened so often now, it's not coincidence. How bad a game manager he is was best highlighted in the HEC game where ST was away at Cardiff where the Welsh had 40+ players missing and he was made to look 3rd rate against a part timer. His decision making and game management was embarrassing given the opposition and the conditions. In the end, Dupont had to take the game by the scrag of its neck himself to give some semblance of respectability. And this latter issue is another Ntamack effect: Dupont has increasingly become error prone by taking on too much himself which he does because he cannot rely on his 1/2 back partner.

[TheFrog]

Ntamack plays to a team plan and I can guarantee you from a source at Cap Breton that the staff had highlighted that Capuozzo was a weak link under the high ball, when confronted with Penaud or Dumortier.

And no credit to Ntamack for taking advantage of the right Italian defense by kicking it to the corner? Maybe not, because this was also part of the strategy decided at Cap Breton. But duly executed.

[Marylandolorian]

So same team than last week.
Ollivon is the only one that I’m not too happy to see this time, he made a lot of costly mistakes during the Autumn series and was awful against Italy (3pen, 1yellow). Roumat could be a good call, but I guess we’ll never know.

[Torquemada 1420]

So same team than last week.
Ollivon is the only one that I’m not too happy to see this time, he made a lot of costly mistakes during the Autumn series and was awful against Italy (3pen, 1yellow). Roumat could be a good call, but I guess we’ll never know.

Think I posted before on Ollivon: he looked back to his best for RCT for part of last season but faded badly at the end of the campaign. Wondered (hoped maybe) that this was down to tiredness because he'd been out for so long but I fear he might just be busted. The right call here would be Macalou: he provides the ranging, link option that Ollivon was (a la Harinordoquy, Magne or Bonnaire or even Lauret). Unlike Cros or even less Jelonch who both put in loads of tackles but provide pretty much nothing in open play.

There are lot of players seemingly falling this way
- Baille has not been the same since the SA game. I really can't see how anyone can come back so quickly after an inguinal hernia.
- Willemse a shadow of before injury at the moment.
- Woki is injured but his form had plummeted anyway.
- Vakatawa gone.
- Danty injured again.
- Villiere injured again and again and again.
- Penaud is another sick note.

Anyway, I'm off on a flounce. After 30 or more years of never having missed seeing a Test, I can't be arsed as long as Ntamack starts. France's chances of a RWC with him at the helm are near zero and I've better things to do on Saturday than to spend another 70 minutes of frustration watching him crippling the backline. I've bailed on my tickets for the Scotland game too.

[Marylandolorian]

It’s a bit drastic but I get your frustration, I did the same during the PSA era with the big difference that we were losing most of the time with a majority of guy who shouldn’t have been selected.

I agree with your list of players that are underperforming right now, but still 14 wins in row

[Torquemada 1420]

https://www.rugbyrama.fr/2023/02/09/6-n ... 987028.php



FM. Keep the ball with Ntamack at the helm?

@Frog: did you see Hari's comments on the Italy game? Basically he could not see any game plan which kinda undermines the "Ntamack the game manager pat". Italy.
Also O'Gara who really does get the French mentality (his post Northampton game interview was excellent) said he now finds France has increasingly no ambition to play. It's all kick and chase (and badly IMHO).

[TheFrog]

I agree with your analysis of players suffering and not playing to their former standards. I would add Fickou, Dupont and Mtamack to your list. Top14 grind getting the better of them.

Against Italy, tiredness was clearly the issue. Hope the work done during the first 2 weeks of camp pays, and that we have a fit team on the pitch this weekend. In that case, we'll have a game. Otherwise, it will be all Ireland.

[TheFrog]

It looks to me as if Borthwick is copying Galthie with a reliable if less exciting 10 starting the game with the more exciting 10 on the bench as a finisher.

[Torquemada 1420]

France have a problem in the midfield. Yet again Romain Ntamack drifted aimlessly sideways to sideways, offering zero go-forward and at times, almost looking disinterested in one of the biggest Tests of his life.

[Torquemada 1420]

Telegraph
"but the jury remains out as to whether he has the control and organisation to fully unlock this terrifying French backline"

And Moefana
"Being frank, it was all a little one-dimensional which, without the power of the injured Jonathan Danty, was not as effective as it needed to be."

France continues to see the world through very different lenses to the rest of the world.

[Torquemada 1420]

Talking of FH's who can't tackle

10. Romain Ntamack – 5.5
Seemed to shepherd Hugo Keenan over the line with little indication that he was interested in tackling the Leinsterman in the opening minutes.

Meantime

9. Antoine Dupont – 8.5
The irascible Toulousain ran Ireland ragged with ball in hand and had a handoff for every one of the Irish team. It was his insane defence that set him apart today though. He can’t do it all himself though and this result proves.

[Marylandolorian]

I knew it was over when Galthié took Ramos out to be replaced by Jalibert, first he’s not a FB and tackles are not his forte, 2 it also meant that Ntamak was going to stay FH.

Defense was top but didn’t see anything in offense that showed progress as a team, and it’s worrisome.
Dupont was incredible and Thibault Flament maybe the best forward.

Concerned about Galthié ‘obstination with some players

[Torquemada 1420]

It gets worse. From the post match interviews, it seems Galthie's "game plan" was to keep kicking the ball away. To Ireland FFS. He was clearly unhappy at the attempt to run the ball and singled out Ramos: won't be a surprise to see Ramos dropped as a result.

So, from that we can conclude Galthie has no intent of ever playing rugby but wants to continue with some bastardised form of Joe Schmidt's kick and chase. I wonder if he's become overly reliant on the work of Edwards in defence and thinks it's such a strength, he doesn't ever want to play with the ball and is happier giving it to the opposition. 2 problems with this:
1) Ireland are better at it. Probably SA too.
2) You will always keep the opposition interested because you cannot put teams away playing that way.

[laurent]

Well at least our club won all its games

Under 14's


Seniors in Pantin


Most likely we saved our season with the win yesterday. Last year promotion was almost too much.

[TheFrog]

So my take of this game and France's evolution over the last 2 games:

France have built their outstanding record on the basis of feeding from turn overs and scoring in the disorder. It also came from the culture of not attacking until you were into the opposition 40m and making sure you did not give penalties away from the opposition 40m line to your own 40m line - because today these lead to touch-maul and 50% of the time another penalty, a try or maybe also a yellow.

Galthie has been criticized for this negative approach of kicking possession away. I am not sure this had a direct impact on him, in fact I think he has thick skin. But in the experts commentaries, what was interesting is the fact that they pointed out the evolution of the South African game this autumn, or the way Ireland can take the game to another team as an area France should explore to ensure they could win the world cup. Basically, the analysis was that, unless France is able to keep possession and impose its own game on the opposition, France was at risk of a disappointment.

In addition, there were two other factors likely to affect France tactics. Danty was missing, and the new stringent refereing at the breakdown meant it would be much harder to create turnover for France.

I therefore am convinced that the team were asked to play more ball in hand and what we have seen against Italy and Ireland is a form of "practice" of a new style for France, which did not go too well.

My view of France failure against Ireland:

1. The Irish tackling technique, with a man systematically blocking the ball and then flopping over on your side at the breakdown. You watch it. Each times it means Dupont doesn't hVe the ball available as fast as it could and it gives that extra second for the Irish defense to redistribute on the offside line.

2. Less dynamism from our forwards. Flament excepted, our forwards did not bring the punch on the advantage line to generate enough go forward momentum to have the Irish defense worried. The epitome of this for me is the moment Ramos chose to kick a drop goal after a long sequence of sterile activity ball in hand in the Irish half.

3. Poor tactical choices: the one thing that was going well was our maul and we never tried to go for the corner. Likewise, on a defensive lineout on our 5m, we decided to pass the ball instead of mauling Ireland out of the red zone. Jelonch dropped the ball as a result.

4. Impatience. It seems that we had decided to spread the ball as fast as possible, resulting in us going laterally far too often for little damage. This maybe linked to 2 above.


Voila. On the other hand, Ireland could keep ball in hand and move 40m forward through patient phases until opportunities arised that they made perfect use of. Their kicking game was superior to ours too, and they used it to perfection in the second part of the second half when they started pinning us down in our 22s and basically ended any hope for France to steal victory from the jaws of defeat.

Ireland were the better team on the pitch, they may only have wanted Flament, Dupont and Penaud in their lineup.

[Torquemada 1420]

Frog: largely in agreement with the exception that Galthie heavily implied it was not his instruction to try and play any rugby. He was pretty irritated that it happened at all.

Other thoughts
1) Playing a kicking game in this manner is not going to win a RWC for all the reasons we cited but even less so when your FH isn't very good at it and then your FB adds to the woes with one of his periodic, Poitrefaux meltdowns.

2) Danty and Villiere missing pretty much halves France's turnover capability i.e. leaving only Marchand and Dupont. This is a weakness with that backrow: none is really a world class exponent of it except maybe Alldritt who has gone MIA. Not that it matters when you already have 4 others IF the backrow makes up for it in other areas.

However, I agree that the breakdown is moving more towards disruption and less ability to compete and so this makes playing without the ball an even less attractive proposition. You just end up defending for most of the game and putting in a million tackles like Saturday. And you will give up pens even if you are not breached.

3) Danty missing was brought up in English media i.e. that he is needed to generate go fwd (because Ntamack stands too deep) and hence Moefana was a poor replacement. The answer here is twofold
- you cannot rely solely on 1 man to get you over the gainline in this way in the backs. Many years ago Wales used Roberts in this way and in a 6N game France basically nullified the entire Welsh attack by simply focusing on bringing him down: I think Basta was sent to man mark him out of the game. Does Galthie not think other coaches will do the same to France.
- which means you have to be more adventurous at FH

I go back to my earlier post. France has become the outstanding defenders in world rugby and, Atonio aside, amongst the fittest. But that should be an ADDITIONAL strength and not the friggin' game plan which is where Galthie's negativeness has taken it to. Especially when you have a set of backs (fitness allowing) as good as anyone else.

In summary, I am old school: the best form of defence is attack and the opposition cannot hurt you if they do not have the ball. Yes, you can hurt yourself (as both Ramos and Ntamack repeatedly did on Saturday) but that is a failing you have to address.

In regards players Ireland would take, that stuff is meaningless really since largely it's about teams but I'd have thrown Marchand into that mix. Aside from the game plan, what killed France's already thin chances was shot by far too many players who were invisible to awful: Atonio, Willemse, Alldritt, Ntamack, Moefana, Ramos. You aren't beating anyone except 3rd tier teams like that.

[TheFrog]

I think what Galthie meant is that he did not expect / want creative rugby played on the 50m (i.e. no risky offloads). He also wasn't looking for the counterattack from deep like we tried to set up a few times.

I think Ramos has played his last game as a starter for France. He was in because of his superior rugby IQ and safety under the high ball. But his kicking out of hand let him down badly and he made so many mistakes it was a nightmare. Reminds me of a certain game some time ago... Galthie will likely revert to the more athletic Jaminet.

I don't know who in France can replace Danty.

I thought for once Macalou looked good and it may be time to try him instead of Ollivon. Cros isn't back to his best yet. But if Macalou starts, Galthie has a problem for his 6+2 bench.

[Torquemada 1420]

I think what Galthie meant is that he did not expect / want creative rugby played on the 50m (i.e. no risky offloads). He also wasn't looking for the counterattack from deep like we tried to set up a few times.

I think Ramos has played his last game as a starter for France. He was in because of his superior rugby IQ and safety under the high ball. But his kicking out of hand let him down badly and he made so many mistakes it was a nightmare. Reminds me of a certain game some time ago... Galthie will likely revert to the more athletic Jaminet.

I don't know who in France can replace Danty.

I thought for once Macalou looked good and it may be time to try him instead of Ollivon. Cros isn't back to his best yet. But if Macalou starts, Galthie has a problem for his 6+2 bench.

Let's be clear, I am not convinced by Jaminet either but don't say I didn't warn about Ramos's propensity to look great for several games and then implode like Poitrefaux: and when that's in a game that matters e.g. a RWC final....... or a 6N decider.

I'd like to see Dumortier tried at FB assuming Villiere ever gets fit long enough to hold down his wing slot. Or Bouthier who is dull but reliable. The PROBLEM here (broken record time) is that then you have to jettison Ntamack because he isn't an intl standard dead ball kicker. He has no range and so oppos can concede pens even as close as 35m and expect him to miss.

You can't replace Danty. Vakatawa is gone and if Danty was still the dim, angry man pen machine of up to 2 seasons ago, the entire folly of Galthie's limited game plan + Ntamack would never have worked: no unbeaten run. Relying so heavily on 1 man is suicide as Ireland will discover if Sexton gets injured.

Actually, I think Alldritt needs a break and would move Ollivon to 8 and Macalou to OS for the remainder of the 6N and go from there. You can't have Cros and Jelonch in the same team. They are clones. If Jelonch can continue to play like he did on Saturday (dropped balls aside) then great, but the last time he played like that was on the Aus tour 2 years ago.

[TheFrog]

Ntamack isn't the bad kicker you like to paint. He doesn't have Jaminet's range but is pretty accurate from 40m.

I don't know about Jalibert's dead ball kicking abilities either. The back up could be Antoine Hastoy.

I am worried about the state of Baille, Marchand, Willemse, Aldritt, Ollivon and Ntamack. I am concerned about how long Dupont and Jelonch will last. Some of these guys are no longer the same after an injury (Baille, Willemse, Ntamack, Ollivon), other seem tired. Preparing the world cup will require working with the clubs to rejuvenate these guys and I am not sure there is a scope for a mutual agreement there.


Re Danty's replacement- that is where I don't get the hate for young Moefana because I am not sure there is any player much better than him available today. And I am not sure to which extent part of this is not tiredness for him too.

[TheFrog]

In summary, Torque, where I get frustrated with your hate of a few players (Jelonch, Ntamack, now Moefana) is that you do not take into account one thing: Ireland's strength is their ability to collectively work to perfection. Even if they do not have outstanding players in each position, they work with intensity like a clockwork.

This is something that France can only do by patches when all the team is at top fitness.

To me, this is our problem. Then, suddenly, Ntamack and Moefana won't be talked so much about, even if there are better players in the world.

[Torquemada 1420]

RCT v ST is a dismal game. ST clueless against 14 and Elstadt super retarded to get a red for retaliation when RCT would be down to 13.

[Torquemada 1420]

In summary, Torque, where I get frustrated with your hate of a few players (Jelonch, Ntamack, now Moefana) is that you do not take into account one thing: Ireland's strength is their ability to collectively work to perfection. Even if they do not have outstanding players in each position, they work with intensity like a clockwork.

This is something that France can only do by patches when all the team is at top fitness.

To me, this is our problem. Then, suddenly, Ntamack and Moefana won't be talked so much about, even if there are better players in the world.

Hate is strong but in Ntamack's case, it's not just the player's own awfulness but that he's selected because daddy was famous and he plays for Toulouse. I'd hoped under Galthie/Edwards that this peculiar French disease of nepotism and favouritism was at an end. Jelonch is just over rated but maybe if he can play like he did against Ire for more than 1 game in 20, then there is an intl in there.

Moeafana I warned from the start was never an intl. Was prepared to give him some leeway because he was first played out of position on the wing but he's actually been worse in his preferred slot.

Maybe only Ire can play in that collective intensity consistently but
a) It's pretty 1D stuff
b) There is always a strategy to beat it (just as in a kinda reverse, LaR beat Leinster). In this case keeping the ball and playing rugby in the right areas. Sadly, I think Galthie is also wedded to 1 strategy and everyone, even the Eyeties, are adapting to playing against it. It won't beat SA if they can stay at 15 and we've seen it's nowhere near good enough to beat Ire.

[Torquemada 1420]

What is massively concerning and depressing is T14.

The JIFF rules have done a great job at cutting down mercs and allowing/forcing younger Fre qualified players to get game time e.g. Carbonneau & Auradou both played yesterday. Whether they become good enough is one thing but having a wider base of selection has to be good.

So, at intl level, Galthie has possibly the biggest player base to pick from in intl rugby.

HOWEVER, in respect of T14
- the quality of rugby is dire. Attritional, conservative dross, week in and week out. This is going to harm skill sets in time. And maybe it already has based on this season's Euro performances.
- the no. of games is clearly a huge factor in this and it's killing the players. Serious injury lists are huge as per Frog's above and even those not inured are looking knackered e.g. Alldritt.
- not sure how long people will pay to watch it. Already mentioned I'd dropped my T14 subscription and now pick games and even then (RCT v ST for example), most of these are disappointment.

[laurent]

Many Proud

3 Off our U15 in Regional selection :)



(Corbeil Mennecy)

[laurent]

and for some laughs.



and more magic

[TheFrog]

C'est qui?

And for Torque: yes, Top14 is a terrible mess. A bore with only rarely a top game. They need to cut seriously on the number of games.

[laurent]

C'est qui?

And for Torque: yes, Top14 is a terrible mess. A bore with only rarely a top game. They need to cut seriously on the number of games.

So unremarkable

Pecresse the permanently Broomstick inserted in the Ass Ile de France Region President (and french LR presidency candidate )

[TheFrog]

C'est qui?

And for Torque: yes, Top14 is a terrible mess. A bore with only rarely a top game. They need to cut seriously on the number of games.

So unremarkable

Pecresse the permanently Broomstick inserted in the Ass Ile de France Region President (and french LR presidency candidate )

So sad...

[Marylandolorian]

Not surprising that some players are completely burned.

XV EDF Le temps de jeu des arrières cette saison

Ethan Dumortier : 1338 minutes jouées
Yoram Moefana *: 1302 minutes jouées
Damian Penaud : 1265 minutes jouées
Antoine Dupont* : 1261 minutes jouées
Thomas Ramos : 1177 minutes jouées
Romain Ntamack *:1039 minutes jouées
Gaël Fickou : 967 minutes jouées
Nolann Le Garrec : 941 minutes jouées
Matthieu Jalibert : 925 minutes jouées
Baptiste Couilloud : 684 minutes jouées


XV de France. Le temps de jeu des avants cette saison

Grégory Alldritt* : 1354 minutes jouées
Anthony Jelonch*: 1304 minutes jouées.for these *it’s not only the time but the intensity that they are playing.
Charles Ollivon*: 1156 minutes jouées
Gaëtan Barlot : 1091 minutes jouées
Sekou Macalou : 1017 minutes jouées
Julien Marchand* : 964 minutes jouées
Uini Atonio : 946 minutes jouées
Reda Wardi : 851 minutes jouées
Romain Taofifenua : 823 minutes jouées
Paul Willemse : 792 minutes jouées
Thibaud Flament : 737 minutes jouées
Sipili Falatea : 649 minutes jouées
Cyril Baille : 530 minutes jouées
Thomas Lavault : 412 minutes jouées
François Cros : 100 minutes jouées

Le temps de jeu des n°8 du Tournoi des 6 Nations 2023

Grégory Alldritt (FRA) : 1354 minutes jouées
Matt Fagerson (ECO) : 1163 minutes jouées
Lorenzo Cannone (ITA) : 1084 minutes jouées
Toby Faletau (GAL) : 1078 minutes jouées
Alex Dombrandt (ANG) : 1008 minutes jouées
Caelan Doris (IRL) : 923 minutes jouées

[TheFrog]

https://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites ... te/1382389

[Torquemada 1420]

Many Proud

3 Off our U15 in Regional selection :)



(Corbeil Mennecy)

4 from Sarcelles

[Torquemada 1420]

Not surprising that some players are completely burned.

XV EDF Le temps de jeu des arrières cette saison

Ethan Dumortier : 1338 minutes jouées
Yoram Moefana *: 1302 minutes jouées
Damian Penaud : 1265 minutes jouées
Antoine Dupont* : 1261 minutes jouées
Thomas Ramos : 1177 minutes jouées
Romain Ntamack *:1039 minutes jouées
Gaël Fickou : 967 minutes jouées
Nolann Le Garrec : 941 minutes jouées
Matthieu Jalibert : 925 minutes jouées
Baptiste Couilloud : 684 minutes jouées


XV de France. Le temps de jeu des avants cette saison

Grégory Alldritt* : 1354 minutes jouées
Anthony Jelonch*: 1304 minutes jouées.for these *it’s not only the time but the intensity that they are playing.
Charles Ollivon*: 1156 minutes jouées
Gaëtan Barlot : 1091 minutes jouées
Sekou Macalou : 1017 minutes jouées
Julien Marchand* : 964 minutes jouées
Uini Atonio : 946 minutes jouées
Reda Wardi : 851 minutes jouées
Romain Taofifenua : 823 minutes jouées
Paul Willemse : 792 minutes jouées
Thibaud Flament : 737 minutes jouées
Sipili Falatea : 649 minutes jouées
Cyril Baille : 530 minutes jouées
Thomas Lavault : 412 minutes jouées
François Cros : 100 minutes jouées

Le temps de jeu des n°8 du Tournoi des 6 Nations 2023

Grégory Alldritt (FRA) : 1354 minutes jouées
Matt Fagerson (ECO) : 1163 minutes jouées
Lorenzo Cannone (ITA) : 1084 minutes jouées
Toby Faletau (GAL) : 1078 minutes jouées
Alex Dombrandt (ANG) : 1008 minutes jouées
Caelan Doris (IRL) : 923 minutes jouées

There we go. That's why Alldritt is f**ked. Also shows why Faletau has looked well off the pace. Fagerson is sh*t and so hard to tell.

Good work on getting those nos.

[laurent]

Many Proud

3 Off our U15 in Regional selection :)



(Corbeil Mennecy)

4 from Sarcelles

Considering that in December we had 0

The next step is not to get all of them to be stolen by Chilly and Massy...

[Torquemada 1420]

Many Proud

3 Off our U15 in Regional selection :)



(Corbeil Mennecy)

4 from Sarcelles

Considering that in December we had 0

The next step is not to get all of them to be stolen by Chilly and Massy...

Always the way!

[laurent]

Pour ceux à qui les punks français ont apporter quelques choses

François hadji Lazaro est mort la nuit dernière

[TheFrog]

Pour ceux à qui les punks français ont apporter quelques choses

François hadji Lazaro est mort la nuit dernière

Il était devenu musulman? D'où lui vient le title Hadj?

[laurent]

Ça a toujours été son nom.

[Torquemada 1420]

Right, another 70 mins of Ntamack laudanum coming up.