NPR

laurent wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:31 am

Un Pilier wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:27 pm

laurent wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:17 pm To be fair any car with decent winter clothing will get through ... even my old C4 can handle snow...

I suspect you don’t see much deep snow. Or steep hills.

Lived in Switzerland winter tyres / pneu neige are mandatory there in winter and sufficient in 99 % situation (add chains if required) a big fat 4x4 is not needed

This is what I was talking about "winter clothing".

shereblue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:28 pm
This makes perfect sense for 99.9% of drivers.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:53 pm

shereblue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:28 pm
This makes perfect sense for 99.9% of drivers.

Indeed. Snow tyres are fucking useless on the 2wd drive car in autumn when you try to get your horsebox across a muddy field.

shereblue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:28 pm

laurent wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:31 am

Un Pilier wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:27 pm

I suspect you don’t see much deep snow. Or steep hills.

Lived in Switzerland winter tyres / pneu neige are mandatory there in winter and sufficient in 99 % situation (add chains if required) a big fat 4x4 is not needed

This is what I was talking about "winter clothing".

This makes perfect sense for 99.9% of drivers.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:31 pm

shereblue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:28 pm

laurent wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:31 am

Lived in Switzerland winter tyres / pneu neige are mandatory there in winter and sufficient in 99 % situation (add chains if required) a big fat 4x4 is not needed

This is what I was talking about "winter clothing".

This makes perfect sense for 99.9% of drivers.

It's a fallacy that Winter tyres are specifically for snow. If anything, in deep snow they are not much more use (you need chains then) BUT they are significantly better at low temperatures and on moderately snowy and icy road conditions.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:31 pm

shereblue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:28 pm

laurent wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:31 am

Lived in Switzerland winter tyres / pneu neige are mandatory there in winter and sufficient in 99 % situation (add chains if required) a big fat 4x4 is not needed

This is what I was talking about "winter clothing".

This makes perfect sense for 99.9% of drivers.

It's a fallacy that Winter tyres are specifically for snow. If anything, in deep snow they are not much more use (you need chains then) BUT they are significantly better at low temperatures and on moderately snowy and icy road conditions.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:37 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:31 pm

shereblue wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:28 pm
This makes perfect sense for 99.9% of drivers.

It's a fallacy that Winter tyres are specifically for snow. If anything, in deep snow they are not much more use (you need chains then) BUT they are significantly better at low temperatures and on moderately snowy and icy road conditions.

And according to some studies significantly worse in all other conditions, including moderate to heavy rain. I have never run winter tyres on my car given that I will at worst have to face icy/snowy driving conditions 3-4 days/year and rainy conditions loads and loads more in what passes for winter these days.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:37 pm And according to some studies significantly worse in all other conditions, including moderate to heavy rain. I have never run winter tyres on my car given that I will at worst have to face icy/snowy driving conditions 3-4 days/year and rainy conditions loads and loads more in what passes for winter these days.

They are better at clearing standing water, too, so winter tyres are also safer than summer tyres when it’s raining.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:34 pm Ideal for popping down to the shops!

Woddy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:08 pm Not about proper, hateful SUVs but this seems as good a place as any...

My beloved Subaru Legacy is finally on its last bearings after 17 years and I cannot work out what to replace it with. I've got rather used to the AWD and solid handling in all conditions, need storage space and a bit of a workhorse (big kids, dogs, packing logs etc) and don't want a wide SUV as I drive along narrow Surrey lanes most of the time. The new-style Subarus look and feel horrific by comparison and even the most recent Outbacks and Legacies are now fairly old.

Any ideas? Expecting to delve within the 2nd-hand market: I don't have much money (any, really).

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:02 pm

Jambanja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:36 am If they were serious about promoting EV’s the reduce the price,
A Kona EV is over $30 000 more than the petrol version, and while people will say...think of the savings you make by not buying petrol etc, which is all well and good, but that’s a lot of extra money to stump up with upfront

Who buys new cars these days? Certainly in the UK it's all leasing, PCP or fleet stuff.

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:06 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:02 pm

Jambanja wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:36 am If they were serious about promoting EV’s the reduce the price,
A Kona EV is over $30 000 more than the petrol version, and while people will say...think of the savings you make by not buying petrol etc, which is all well and good, but that’s a lot of extra money to stump up with upfront

Who buys new cars these days? Certainly in the UK it's all leasing, PCP or fleet stuff.

That PCP thing is like overdraft letters they hook you in and then you are stuck leasing a car for life... By the time you have paid for extra mileage and stone chips etc. it isn't the great deal it looks to be.

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:46 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:06 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:02 pm

Who buys new cars these days? Certainly in the UK it's all leasing, PCP or fleet stuff.

That PCP thing is like overdraft letters they hook you in and then you are stuck leasing a car for life... By the time you have paid for extra mileage and stone chips etc. it isn't the great deal it looks to be.

It's suited me, I'm half way through the second deal on a Golf. The cost is on a par with depreciation and I've got a good deal on the couple of services I'll need. Rightly or wrongly I'd rather keep my savings intact. I didn't have any charges when I handed the first one back after 35k miles.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:03 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:37 pm And according to some studies significantly worse in all other conditions, including moderate to heavy rain. I have never run winter tyres on my car given that I will at worst have to face icy/snowy driving conditions 3-4 days/year and rainy conditions loads and loads more in what passes for winter these days.

I'd like to see those studies because I'd suggest they are nonsense. Winter tyres are better in all conditions in low temperatures, end of!

Here's one
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/advice/winter-tyres

They are better at clearing standing water, too, so winter tyres are also safer than summer tyres when it’s raining.

and it's what I'd expect because the tread patterns are much deeper.

I suspect the problem is here
http://whichtyres.com/2013/10/winter-ty ... labelling/

FWIW, as stated, I have run Winters on my cars for decades and there is always that tricky decision in the UK when to switch: if you run Winters at 11C or above (typically) for any length of time, you f**k them. So I know what it's like driving both variants on waterlogged roads and the Winters have always been miles better.

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:59 pm

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:46 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:06 pm

That PCP thing is like overdraft letters they hook you in and then you are stuck leasing a car for life... By the time you have paid for extra mileage and stone chips etc. it isn't the great deal it looks to be.

It's suited me, I'm half way through the second deal on a Golf. The cost is on a par with depreciation and I've got a good deal on the couple of services I'll need. Rightly or wrongly I'd rather keep my savings intact. I didn't have any charges when I handed the first one back after 35k miles.

you are the exception rather than the rule generally you only get an 8K allowance per year which if you use your car for commuting is peanuts. Yes cost is on a par with depreciation for the three years you have it but all the loss has been borne by then, the car is about half value.

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:55 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:59 pm

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:46 pm
It's suited me, I'm half way through the second deal on a Golf. The cost is on a par with depreciation and I've got a good deal on the couple of services I'll need. Rightly or wrongly I'd rather keep my savings intact. I didn't have any charges when I handed the first one back after 35k miles.

you are the exception rather than the rule generally you only get an 8K allowance per year which if you use your car for commuting is peanuts. Yes cost is on a par with depreciation for the three years you have it but all the loss has been borne by then, the car is about half value.

My PCP deal allowed me to spec the mileage. I'm going to massively undershoot thanks to Covid - I had it at 20k per year, but I'm now 24 months in on 16k

Openside wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:49 am

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:55 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:59 pm

you are the exception rather than the rule generally you only get an 8K allowance per year which if you use your car for commuting is peanuts. Yes cost is on a par with depreciation for the three years you have it but all the loss has been borne by then, the car is about half value.

My PCP deal allowed me to spec the mileage. I'm going to massively undershoot thanks to Covid - I had it at 20k per year, but I'm now 24 months in on 16k

By specked you mean pay shedloads more per month. Ultimately you have paid for a whole lot of depreciation that hasn’t occurred.

Saint wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:08 am [quote=Openside post_id=76840 time=<a href="tel:1611740950">1611740950</a> user_id=95]
[quote=Saint post_id=76778 time=<a href="tel:1611705324">1611705324</a> user_id=196]
[quote=Openside post_id=76768 time=<a href="tel:1611701983">1611701983</a> user_id=95]


you are the exception rather than the rule generally you only get an 8K allowance per year which if you use your car for commuting is peanuts. Yes cost is on a par with depreciation for the three years you have it but all the loss has been borne by then, the car is about half value.

Saint wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:08 am

Openside wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:49 am

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:55 pm

My PCP deal allowed me to spec the mileage. I'm going to massively undershoot thanks to Covid - I had it at 20k per year, but I'm now 24 months in on 16k

By specked you mean pay shedloads more per month. Ultimately you have paid for a whole lot of depreciation that hasn’t occurred.

Difference was VERY marginal (like around 2% per month)

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:59 pm

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:46 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:06 pm

That PCP thing is like overdraft letters they hook you in and then you are stuck leasing a car for life... By the time you have paid for extra mileage and stone chips etc. it isn't the great deal it looks to be.

It's suited me, I'm half way through the second deal on a Golf. The cost is on a par with depreciation and I've got a good deal on the couple of services I'll need. Rightly or wrongly I'd rather keep my savings intact. I didn't have any charges when I handed the first one back after 35k miles.

you are the exception rather than the rule generally you only get an 8K allowance per year which if you use your car for commuting is peanuts. Yes cost is on a par with depreciation for the three years you have it but all the loss has been borne by then, the car is about half value.

Sards wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:42 pm Must be able to rest your elbow on the side of you without your shoulder crammed into your neck.

Sards wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:42 pm you get to be raised above the traffic which is how I prefer it ( its claustrophobic if you are in traffic and you can't see ahead or around you.)

average joe wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:47 am I also like big mafokor cars. Firstly I'm a huge fokor so I prefer not to fold myself in half getting in and out. I hate feeling like I'm sitting on the tarmac and pulling my head in like a fokon turtle because it's pressing up on the headliner with my knees next to my ears.

Also I like to see the fear on the face of the poephol in his tiny Ford Figo that just cut me off when he looks in the rearview and all he sees is this big ass grill. Sometimes they stop and get out only to get right back in and drive off when a reciprocate.

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:53 pm I've run winter tyres on my car for the last 7 years. I swap them over in early November and back in Mid-March. It helps that I have garage space to store them and could afford a spare set of alloys as there is no hoteling option locally.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:54 am

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:53 pm I've run winter tyres on my car for the last 7 years. I swap them over in early November and back in Mid-March. It helps that I have garage space to store them and could afford a spare set of alloys as there is no hoteling option locally.

That is the downside. You need to stump up the cost of a spare set of alloys because swapping tyres on to the same rim would be tedious, time consuming and costly in the long run.

The thing that is a bugbear of mine is
- if I drove in the Summer with bald tyres, I could be done by plod for driving a vehicle in an unroadworthy/unsafe state. Actually, if it were dry, the balds offer more traction but plod would rightly argue that if it rained, I'd be something of a liability.
- BUT we allow BMW and Merc drivers out in Winter conditions with real wheel drive and fat tyres that result in behaviour more like skis than traction. How TF is that any different? Every time we get real Winter conditions, I encounter scores of these morons sliding around, slipping down hills backwards or parked backwards in a ditch (which at least provides me with a laugh). But in all seriousness, they are danger to other road users and even more so to pedestrians.

laurent wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:29 am

average joe wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:47 am I also like big mafokor cars. Firstly I'm a huge fokor so I prefer not to fold myself in half getting in and out. I hate feeling like I'm sitting on the tarmac and pulling my head in like a fokon turtle because it's pressing up on the headliner with my knees next to my ears.

Also I like to see the fear on the face of the poephol in his tiny Ford Figo that just cut me off when he looks in the rearview and all he sees is this big ass grill. Sometimes they stop and get out only to get right back in and drive off when a reciprocate.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:40 pm
There was a lot of talk 5-7 years ago about having winter tyre requirements in the UK and some garages even started offering tyre hoteling, but that sees to have died away again. In my opinion if you drive on run-flats, you should be required by law to change to winter tyres every October. They're lethal in icy conditions.

TBF with global warming on the way, we should get much less snow anyway.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:14 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:40 pm
There was a lot of talk 5-7 years ago about having winter tyre requirements in the UK and some garages even started offering tyre hoteling, but that sees to have died away again. In my opinion if you drive on run-flats, you should be required by law to change to winter tyres every October. They're lethal in icy conditions.

TBF with global warming on the way, we should get much less snow anyway.

Reverse in the UK. Look at the latitude. Same as Canada which gets pretty cold. UK benefits from a freak aspect of the Atlantic Conveyor bringing warm waters far North. Global warming melts the N Pole which will shift that current South and consequence is UK will freeze and every farmer's crop will be f**ked forever with a total climate change.

Niegs wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:43 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:14 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:40 pm
There was a lot of talk 5-7 years ago about having winter tyre requirements in the UK and some garages even started offering tyre hoteling, but that sees to have died away again. In my opinion if you drive on run-flats, you should be required by law to change to winter tyres every October. They're lethal in icy conditions.

TBF with global warming on the way, we should get much less snow anyway.

Reverse in the UK. Look at the latitude. Same as Canada which gets pretty cold. UK benefits from a freak aspect of the Atlantic Conveyor bringing warm waters far North. Global warming melts the N Pole which will shift that current South and consequence is UK will freeze and every farmer's crop will be f**ked forever with a total climate change.

And it's "climate change" such that we can't really predict, can we? Doesn't the Gulf Stream keep Ireland, Wales and England somewhat toasty for the latitude?

Here, we could be seeing more snow as we don't seem to get as many of those -15C and lower days where snow isn't as likely.

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:22 pm Love how self-deprecating the Simpsons is.

The Canyonero is a piece of shit because it is built in the US.

Fox is a worthless POS channel despite hosting the Simpsons.

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:20 am I don't really get the love affair with the SUVs.

Even over here they can be ungainly, thirsty big units that can be hard to fit into small spaces.

I'm a good driver with only one minor bingle in 27 years of driving so the safety aspect doesn't really concern me.

A late model VW Jetta will do me, thanks.