NPR

Posted: **Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:39 pm**

Ymx wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:49 pm
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:28 pm
Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:38 pmOf course, there was no mention of the ugly and out of character push of Reece by Weber over the sideline either, a totally unnecessary cheap shot that sent the winger over the hoardings causing him pain.
Sort of. Reece was trying his best to be a dick by going for the ball that miles in touch just to prevent the Chiefs getting it, then milked it as he lay on the ground. The ref correctly applied the "woman-beating scum" law in this case.
Don’t bring this here please.

Take it out on your “girlfriend” instead

What an incredibly laboured way to make a dig at me. Be funnier, for Christ's sake.

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:19 am**

Glaston wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:53 pm
Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:56 am
Ymx wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:44 am

Didn’t Wales spectacularly fail whenever Gatland was away? And Howley ran the ship.

It’s all very confusing.

On sky I didn’t get to see the post match Gatland whinge? It quickly switched to an Aus game.

Did anyone?
Pretty mixed. If I recall, think we won the championship and beat England by 30 points in the Six Nations before one lions tour. We also get lots of the players picked to tour with the Lions, so Howley couldn't have done that badly.

...lol.
Ah yes, the same season Wales lost at home to Samoa and Argentina

We can lose against anyone, we really can, I honestly don't remember that. You sure it wasn't Japan and not Samoa?

I remember beating England by 30 though.
Who could forget, The singing...Tiperic delayed pass to Cuthbert, Cuthbert..weird behind'ee hand off and straight in the corner leaving Brown for dead.
Crowd goes wild, I think I burst into tears.

30 points..my gawdl

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:57 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:39 pm
Ymx wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:49 pm
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:28 pm

Sort of. Reece was trying his best to be a dick by going for the ball that miles in touch just to prevent the Chiefs getting it, then milked it as he lay on the ground. The ref correctly applied the "woman-beating scum" law in this case.
Don’t bring this here please.

Take it out on your “girlfriend” instead

What an incredibly laboured way to make a dig at me. Be funnier, for Christ's sake.

It’s honestly my best material.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:15 am**

To be a chiefs supporter.

So sorry. At least it’s over now.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:21 am**

The Lions are going to get annihilated in South Africa next year with Gatland in charge. His style doesn't work under the new law interpretations and he's proved incapable of adapting.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:29 am**

Possibly a bonus that with Gatland in charge there won't be many Scots tainted by the forthcoming Lions debacle in SA.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:44 am**

dkm57 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:29 am Possibly a bonus that with Gatland in charge there won't be many Scots tainted by the forthcoming Lions debacle in SA.

That's the way I'm thinking tbh. More guys taken but only in for the dirt trackers.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:57 am**

Jeez, the Scottish hate for Gats runs deep. Seems a bit vindictive. I'm no fan of the guy as a coach, but really....

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:00 am**

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:57 am Jeez, the Scottish hate for Gats runs deep. Seems a bit vindictive. I'm no fan of the guy as a coach, but really....

Think it’s down to Gatland selection or rather non selection of Scottish players for the Lions

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:03 am**

Ymx wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:00 am
FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:57 am Jeez, the Scottish hate for Gats runs deep. Seems a bit vindictive. I'm no fan of the guy as a coach, but really....
Think it’s down to Gatland selection or rather non selection of Scottish players for the Lions

Yeah. That was what I sensed, but my feeling from watching it all (The Lions selections) from afar was that no Scottish players who left out were really demanding to be selected? I don't mean to cause offense or wind anyone up. I genuinely don't remember the nuances of what was going on.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:13 am**

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:03 am
Ymx wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:00 am
FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:57 am Jeez, the Scottish hate for Gats runs deep. Seems a bit vindictive. I'm no fan of the guy as a coach, but really....
Think it’s down to Gatland selection or rather non selection of Scottish players for the Lions
Yeah. That was what I sensed, but my feeling from watching it all (The Lions selections) from afar was that no Scottish players who left out were really demanding to be selected? I don't mean to cause offense or wind anyone up. I genuinely don't remember the nuances of what was going on.

Ok, rewind to 98. Let’s say there was an iconic SH team tour of England.

Rod McQueen as coach, and zero kiwis were in the starting XV. Be hard to get behind.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:17 am**

Ymx wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:13 am
FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:03 am
Ymx wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:00 am

Think it’s down to Gatland selection or rather non selection of Scottish players for the Lions
Yeah. That was what I sensed, but my feeling from watching it all (The Lions selections) from afar was that no Scottish players who left out were really demanding to be selected? I don't mean to cause offense or wind anyone up. I genuinely don't remember the nuances of what was going on.
Ok, rewind to 98. Let’s say there was an iconic SH team tour of England.

Rod McQueen as coach, and zero kiwis were in the starting XV. Be hard to get behind.

FALSE EQUIVALENCE ALERT

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:18 am**

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:23 am**

Which Scottish players in question overshadow these ABs from Bledisloe 1, 1998?

15 Christian Cullen
14 Jeff Wilson
13 Scott McLeod
12 Walter Little
11 Joeli Vidiri
10 Andrew Mehrtens
9 Justin Marshall
8 Taine Randell (c)
7 Josh Kronfeld
6 Michael Jones
5 Robin Brooke
4 Ian Jones
3 Olo Brown
2 Anton Oliver
1 Craig Dowd

Replacements:

16 Mark Hammett
17 Carl Hoeft
18 Royce Willis
19 Isitolo Maka
20 Ofisa Tonu'u
21 Carlos Spencer

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:40 am**

I see the kiwi's are blaming Gats, and yet its the players who are out on the field, not him,, sometimes a team doesn't like a new coach to come in, I would bet a couple of senior players have decided not to play ball, weed them out Gats, or come back to Wales where you'll be treated with respect, not like that scum in NZ.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:29 pm**

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:23 am Which Scottish players in question overshadow these ABs from Bledisloe 1, 1998?

15 Christian Cullen
14 Jeff Wilson
13 Scott McLeod
12 Walter Little
11 Joeli Vidiri
10 Andrew Mehrtens
9 Justin Marshall
8 Taine Randell (c)
7 Josh Kronfeld
6 Michael Jones
5 Robin Brooke
4 Ian Jones
3 Olo Brown
2 Anton Oliver
1 Craig Dowd

Replacements:

16 Mark Hammett
17 Carl Hoeft
18 Royce Willis
19 Isitolo Maka
20 Ofisa Tonu'u
21 Carlos Spencer

The Lions should be thinking of guys like Hogg, Hamish Watson, Finn Russell*, Rory Sutherland, Jamie Ritchie as strong contenders for the starting shirt in a Test series, who should be given genuine opportunities to prove it in the tour matches. The problem is with modern Gatland tours, the team is largely decided before they even depart. Players who are fully capable of being Test stars don't get a fair shake.

Do I think Ritchie's better than Underhill or Curry? No, but if he outplays them on tour, he should start. That ethos has fallen away a bit, and it's especially tough on the Scots whose players often lose "50/50" selection calls for the touring squad to begin with.

* could well be a disastrous tourist given his attitude, so wouldn't moan too much if he was ignored

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:35 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:29 pm
FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:23 am Which Scottish players in question overshadow these ABs from Bledisloe 1, 1998?

15 Christian Cullen
14 Jeff Wilson
13 Scott McLeod
12 Walter Little
11 Joeli Vidiri
10 Andrew Mehrtens
9 Justin Marshall
8 Taine Randell (c)
7 Josh Kronfeld
6 Michael Jones
5 Robin Brooke
4 Ian Jones
3 Olo Brown
2 Anton Oliver
1 Craig Dowd

Replacements:

16 Mark Hammett
17 Carl Hoeft
18 Royce Willis
19 Isitolo Maka
20 Ofisa Tonu'u
21 Carlos Spencer
The Lions should be thinking of guys like Hogg, Hamish Watson, Finn Russell*, Rory Sutherland, Jamie Ritchie as strong contenders for the starting shirt in a Test series, who should be given genuine opportunities to prove it in the tour matches. The problem is with modern Gatland tours, the team is largely decided before they even depart. Players who are fully capable of being Test stars don't get a fair shake.

Do I think Ritchie's better than Underhill or Curry? No, but if he outplays them on tour, he should start. That ethos has fallen away a bit, and it's especially tough on the Scots whose players often lose "50/50" selection calls for the touring squad to begin with.

* could well be a disastrous tourist given his attitude, so wouldn't moan too much if he was ignored

Part of it is that he has changed the goalposts each time to suit his selections. At various times its been winning games, winning away games, playing in the knockout stages of Europe, experience and various other shite to explain why his 50/50 calls always go with, usually, some piss poor Welsh player.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:00 pm**

Not having any Scots in the management/coaching team to advocate for Scottish players on the 50/50 calls doesn't help either. That's not purely down to Gatland, Scotland were offered the opportunity to contribute coaches to the team on the last tour and turned it down. It'll be interesting to see if they've learned that lesson should the situation arise again for the next one.

Personally, I'm going to find it hard to choose between supporting a Lions squad with only a token Scottish representation and the Boks, especially as the Boks have always been my second team anyway.

Posted: **Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:11 pm**

Chrysoprase wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:00 pm Not having any Scots in the management/coaching team to advocate for Scottish players on the 50/50 calls doesn't help either. That's not purely down to Gatland, Scotland were offered the opportunity to contribute coaches to the team on the last tour and turned it down. It'll be interesting to see if they've learned that lesson should the situation arise again for the next one.

Personally, I'm going to find it hard to choose between supporting a Lions squad with only a token Scottish representation and the Boks, especially as the Boks have always been my second team anyway.

The Scotland head coach was offered a position as assistant to the assistant. He quite rightly turned it down. It was a calculated insult from Gatland designed to be turned down so that he'd be able to use the exact excuse you've described.

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:35 am**

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:11 pm
Chrysoprase wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:00 pm Not having any Scots in the management/coaching team to advocate for Scottish players on the 50/50 calls doesn't help either. That's not purely down to Gatland, Scotland were offered the opportunity to contribute coaches to the team on the last tour and turned it down. It'll be interesting to see if they've learned that lesson should the situation arise again for the next one.

Personally, I'm going to find it hard to choose between supporting a Lions squad with only a token Scottish representation and the Boks, especially as the Boks have always been my second team anyway.
The Scotland head coach was offered a position as assistant to the assistant. He quite rightly turned it down. It was a calculated insult from Gatland designed to be turned down so that he'd be able to use the exact excuse you've described.

Whether Townsend's ego prevented him from taking the role or not is beside the point, there was no Scotland representation on the selection committee. O'Halloran was offered a role as well and he also turned it down.

Scotland's performances since 2017 would suggest that assistant to the assistant was probably about right for Townsend.

Posted: **Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:41 am**

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:35 pm
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:29 pm
FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:23 am Which Scottish players in question overshadow these ABs from Bledisloe 1, 1998?

15 Christian Cullen
14 Jeff Wilson
13 Scott McLeod
12 Walter Little
11 Joeli Vidiri
10 Andrew Mehrtens
9 Justin Marshall
8 Taine Randell (c)
7 Josh Kronfeld
6 Michael Jones
5 Robin Brooke
4 Ian Jones
3 Olo Brown
2 Anton Oliver
1 Craig Dowd

Replacements:

16 Mark Hammett
17 Carl Hoeft
18 Royce Willis
19 Isitolo Maka
20 Ofisa Tonu'u
21 Carlos Spencer
The Lions should be thinking of guys like Hogg, Hamish Watson, Finn Russell*, Rory Sutherland, Jamie Ritchie as strong contenders for the starting shirt in a Test series, who should be given genuine opportunities to prove it in the tour matches. The problem is with modern Gatland tours, the team is largely decided before they even depart. Players who are fully capable of being Test stars don't get a fair shake.

Do I think Ritchie's better than Underhill or Curry? No, but if he outplays them on tour, he should start. That ethos has fallen away a bit, and it's especially tough on the Scots whose players often lose "50/50" selection calls for the touring squad to begin with.

* could well be a disastrous tourist given his attitude, so wouldn't moan too much if he was ignored
Part of it is that he has changed the goalposts each time to suit his selections. At various times its been winning games, winning away games, playing in the knockout stages of Europe, experience and various other shite to explain why his 50/50 calls always go with, usually, some piss poor Welsh player.

Nail on head. Not getting players picked when you’re shit is harsh, but difficult to argue. Before the last tour we beat both Ireland and Wales, with a bit to spare, and we rightly expected better representation. Gatland then picked two Scottish players for the squad. He couldn’t have said ‘fuck you’ much louder.

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:03 pm**

This seems most relevant here for now. My fingers are crossed it’s not needed on the Foster thread.

Why ex-All Black Daryl Gibson's thesis on 'losing streaks' may save careers

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/inter ... ve-careers

Posted: **Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:11 pm**

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:12 am Who would have guessed, Shaun Edwards, Robert Howley and the Welsh team were far far more integral to Gatlands success than the English press liked to think.

Rob Howley

Posted: **Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:20 pm**

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:11 pm
Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:12 am Who would have guessed, Shaun Edwards, Robert Howley and the Welsh team were far far more integral to Gatlands success than the English press liked to think.
Rob Howley

It’s Edwards that made the biggest contribution imo. Everything Gatland wanted to do relied on hard nosed aggressive defense. Pretty sure that was all Edwards. I’m also certain we’ll start to see that come through into the French team in the next couple of years.

NPR

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