NPR

Jim Lahey wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:37 pm Anyone else struggling to give a fuck about this?

It might be down to me being from Ulster tbf.

Jim Lahey wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:37 pm Anyone else struggling to give a fuck about this?

It might be down to me being from Ulster tbf.

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Fasten seatbelts for Champions Cup could be quite a ride

Jake White has said it, and he knows what he’s talking about because he’s experienced it. John Dobson hasn’t experienced it, but he knows enough about it to know that it’s true. This coming weekend is going to see a dramatic change in the South African rugby landscape.

According to White, South African rugby followers aren’t going to know what has hit them until it does, in the form of this weekend’s first round of Champions Cup fixtures. White has coached the Springboks to Rugby World Cup glory, so he should be listened to when he says this competition is the closest you come to international rugby without it actually being international rugby.

“To be fair I think everyone (in South Africa) is a little naive, both from a supporter point of view and a young player point of view,” said White when looking ahead to the upcoming challenges, which start for his team with a Group clash with French club Lyon at Loftus on Saturday night.

“We will be coming up against teams boasting several test internationals, both in the starting team and on the bench. Remember most of the European teams don’t just draw from the player pool base in their country, they have South Africans, Kiwis, Aussies, Argentinians and players from the Pacific islands. I have experienced this competition before when coaching Montpellier, and whether it is the Champions Cup or the Challenge Cup (to be contested by the Emirates Lions and Toyota Cheetahs) it is incredibly tough.

“Generally the depth of those teams is much stronger than we have gotten used to in the URC and which we have in our systems in South Africa. I’ve tried very hard over the last few weeks to explain to the guys in our squad just how good these teams are. The packs weigh a thousand kilograms, they’ve got brilliant international class backlines. I think we are in for a bit of a wakeup call next weekend. Once we have seen the games on TV everyone will understand the enormity of the challenge facing our teams.”

STORMERS FACE INTIMIDATING OPENER

White listed Clermont, where the Stormers are headed this weekend, as one of the toughest places to play. Not that Dobson needed White to tell him that, he’d already heard about the special though intimidating experience it was to go to Clermont from Scarlets coach Dwayne Peel, as well as Welsh journalist Steve Thomas, who was on an online press conference after the Stormers beat the Dragons.

“The Champions Cup is another world, we know that we are entering a whole new world next weekend and we are tremendously excited about it,” said Dobson.

“We are also excited to be starting off away against Clermont, although we do understand it is a formidable prospect. Dwayne Peel said that it is one of the most incredible rugby experiences. Apparently it is hugely intimidating to play there, and you are confronted by an intimidating sea of yellow and blue.

“But this is the competition we want to be part of and we worked hard last year to get here. We are incredibly excited and pleased to be starting where we are, this is going to be a statement game for us, at an iconic venue on the Champions Cup circuit. It will be a huge challenge but we want to show that as URC champions we belong at the top table.”

CONFIDENCE IS HIGH

Both the Bulls and the Stormers, last season’s URC finalists, go into the Champions Cup with confidence high after a run of victories and having picked up some momentum. For White’s team, there were signs this past weekend that Johan Goosen is now regaining his confidence following his return from injury and he could be the catalyst to take the Bulls to the next level.

Goosen is one of several players in the Bulls outfit who has experienced Champions Cup rugby, and he will know what to expect.

For Dobson the big win for him has been that he has spread his depth by selecting more players in the first eight rounds of the URC than any other club or franchise, and yet his team has been good enough to be joint second with the Bulls at the halfway mark. But the Stormers have had a relatively easy draw in the first part of the season, and the tough part starts now.

Dobson has studied Clermont and the good news for people who enjoy entertaining rugby is that he believes his team’s exciting, vibrant, offload and passing-orientated playing style suits what he expects Clermont to throw at them.

QUINS TOUGH FIRST OPPONENTS FOR SHARKS

One team that has a reputation for playing running rugby is the London club, Harlequins, who head to Durban on Saturday to play a Cell C Sharks team that has struggled recently but should be boosted by the fact that they will be at full strength, or very close to full strength, for the first time.

A clutch of Boks played in the dour, workmanlike win over the Ospreys last Friday, but they will be further boosted by the return of Eben Etzebeth and Siya Kolisi. The return of Lukhanyo Am from a long-term injury can’t be too far away now either.

England flyhalf Marcus Smith is apparently injured but Quins will bring a strong team to Durban, and while club captain Stephan Lewies will be watching from the stands as he is currently injured, Bok centre Andre Esterhuizen will be looking forward to being reacquainted with HollywoodBets Kings Park and will be motivated to put one over his old teammates.

“Myself and Andre have talked up Durban a lot. I think getting used to the tropical weather and humidity of 90 per cent will be a big challenge for the team, but hopefully we can overcome that and put up a good performance,” said Lewies.

NEW CHALLENGES FOR OVERSEAS TEAMS

The former Sharks player believes that South Africa’s entry into the competition will bring new challenges to all the competing teams that will further enhance its reputation for being the best and most challenging club/provincial competition in world rugby.

Lewies is just one of several South Africans playing overseas who has spoken up the Champions Cup as the best competition, and as most of them also played Super Rugby, that says something. To be fair, Super Rugby in its pomp, when it featured just 12 teams, was probably right up there in the early parts of its existence, but it did become tired once it expanded.

A glance at this week’s games underlines just how tough this competition is and how watchable it will be, for it is hard to decide which games should be prioritised above others. For a start, Saturday afternoon is going to have neutrals deliberating over whether they should watch the appetising Sharks v Harlequins game or rather tune into the game that will be played concurrently between Racing ’92 and Leinster. And the Munster-Toulouse game on Sunday is a replay of a very emotional and tense play-off game in last season’s competition.

So fasten your seatbelts, it is unusual to have a rugby focus in South Africa in December, but once it all starts it is going to be a captivating period that will whet appetites and maybe, just maybe, as White has predicted, also be a wake-up call for teams that don’t quite know what to expect yet.

Weekend Champions Cup fixtures (First round of Group Stage)

London Irish v Montpellier (Friday, 10pm)
Racing ’92 v Leinster (Saturday, 3pm)
Cell C Sharks v Harlequins (Saturday, 3pm)
Gloucester v Bordeaux Begles (Saturday, 5:15pm)
Clermont Auvergne v DHL Stormers (Saturday, 5:15pm)
La Rochelle v Northampton (Saturday, 7:30pm)
Vodacom Bulls v Lyon (Saturday, 7:30pm)
Castres v Exeter (Saturday, 10pm)
Sale v Ulster (Sunday, 3pm)
Saracens v Edinburgh (Sunday, 5:15pm)
Munster v Toulouse (Sunday, 5:15pm)
Ospreys v Leicester (Sunday, 7:30pm)

weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:21 pm For Saffa's, make a point of watching the Clermont v Stormeres. Clermont are not what they were, and this may have subdued the crowd. But the Marcel Michelin in full cry is like nothing else in world rugby. If neither Edinburgh or Glasgow are drawn against them in the next few years my son and I intend to pick a random match and travel just to experience the atmosphere.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 6:30 am Racing vs Leinster will probably the clash of the weekend. Will be weird to see Gelant in another jersey.

robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:55 pm

weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:21 pm For Saffa's, make a point of watching the Clermont v Stormeres. Clermont are not what they were, and this may have subdued the crowd. But the Marcel Michelin in full cry is like nothing else in world rugby. If neither Edinburgh or Glasgow are drawn against them in the next few years my son and I intend to pick a random match and travel just to experience the atmosphere.

Stade Marcel Michelin is on the bucket list for me as well.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:46 pm

robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:55 pm

weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:21 pm For Saffa's, make a point of watching the Clermont v Stormeres. Clermont are not what they were, and this may have subdued the crowd. But the Marcel Michelin in full cry is like nothing else in world rugby. If neither Edinburgh or Glasgow are drawn against them in the next few years my son and I intend to pick a random match and travel just to experience the atmosphere.

Stade Marcel Michelin is on the bucket list for me as well.

+100

They talk about the 16th man; but when it's rocking; the SMM is the 16th, the 17th & the 18th; & that's what makes shutting them up a priority.

.... it's also an atmosphere that every other club should strive to achieve !

Jim Lahey wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:37 pm Anyone else struggling to give a fuck about this?

It might be down to me being from Ulster tbf.

lemonhead wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:30 am The temporary-now-permanent group format is dogshit but the games themselves are fine.

Knockout stages are more than fine, they're pretty damn good.

lemonhead wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:30 am The temporary-now-permanent group format is dogshit but the games themselves are fine.

Knockout stages are more than fine, they're pretty damn good.

Jim Lahey wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:37 pm Anyone else struggling to give a fuck about this?

It might be down to me being from Ulster tbf.

robmatic wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:04 am

lemonhead wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:30 am The temporary-now-permanent group format is dogshit but the games themselves are fine.

Knockout stages are more than fine, they're pretty damn good.

I'd much prefer a proper group stage and no round of 16. As it stands, there's only a week between the round of 16 and the quarter finals so there's basically no build up and limited opportunity to travel for what should be a high profile game.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:00 pm Champions Cup fixtures

Friday 9 Dec 20:00 BST - London Irish vs Montpellier at Gtech Stadium, Brentford Capacity: 17,250
Saturday 10 Dec 13:00 BST - Sharks vs Harlequins at Kings Park Stadium, Durban Capacity: 55,000
Saturday 10 Dec 13:00 BST - Racing 92 vs Leinster at Stade Oceane, Le Havre Capacity: 25,178
Saturday 10 Dec 15:15 BST - Clermont vs Stormers at Marcel Michelin, Clermont-Ferrand Cap: 15,000
Saturday 10 Dec 15:15 BST - Gloucester vs Bordeaux Begles at Kingsholm, Gloucester Capacity: 16,115
Saturday 10 Dec 17:30 BST - La Rochelle vs Northampton Saints at Stade Marcel Deflandre, La Rochelle
Saturday 10 Dec 17:30 BST - Bulls vs Lyon at Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria Capacity: 52,000
Saturday 10 Dec 20:00 BST - Castres vs Exeter Chiefs at Stade Pierre-Fabre, Castres Capacity: 9,423
Sunday 11 Dec 13:00 BST - Sale Sharks vs Ulster at AJ Bell Stadium, Salford Capacity: 10,000
Sunday 11 Dec 15:15 BST - Munster Rugby vs Toulouse at Thomond Park, Limerick Capacity: 26,500
Sunday 11 Dec 15:15 BST - Saracens vs Edinburgh at StoneX Stadium, London Capacity 10,500
Sunday 11 Dec 17:30 BST - Ospreys vs Leicester Tigers at Swansea.com Stadium Capacity: 20,000
BST + 2 hr = SAST

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:37 am Genuinely would prefer we sent the kids to Durban rather than flogging our first XV for this nonsense.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:02 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:37 am Genuinely would prefer we sent the kids to Durban rather than flogging our first XV for this nonsense.

A few will sleep at home.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:28 pm Jonno Gibbes coaching Clermont.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:14 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:28 pm Jonno Gibbes coaching Clermont.

Yeah, he's going the NH route for getting his coaches badges; which is kinda the reverse of how ROG went about things, but probably for the same reasons.

Ulster, Leinster, Ireland, La Rochelle, & now Clermont; nothing but the best for him, & I can see him being an International coach for some top 4 team in the next decade !

He's undoubtedly a smart cookie, so it'll be interesting to see if, & how he can take Clermont out of this dip they're temporarily in.

SA teams will take European rugby to a new level

Springbok star Handre Pollard believes the South African teams will take the Heineken Champions Cup to “a completely different level”, just as they have done with the Vodacom United Rugby Championship.

Pollard’s former team, the Vodacom Bulls, will join the DHL Stormers and the Cell C Sharks in taking part in Europe’s elite event for the first time this weekend.

They qualified through finishing in the top eight in the Vodacom URC last season, with the DHL Stormers going on to win the title, beating the Vodacom Bulls in the final.

Those two sides currently lie third and second respectively in the Vodacom URC table after the opening nine rounds of matches, with the Emirates Lions - who are in the second-tier European Challenge Cup - occupying fifth spot.

Rugby World Cup winning flyhalf Pollard, who joined English champions Leicester from French champions Montpellier in the summer, is convinced having the South African sides in Europe is a positive step forward.

“I understand completely some people are like ‘What are they doing here?',” said the 28-year-old from the Western Cape.

“But I think, after a year or two, it’ll really benefit the competition. It took the Vodacom URC to a completely different level and I honestly believe they’ll be the same with the Champions Cup.

“The South Africa teams will bring a great new flavour to the competition. They have been playing a really nice, attacking brand of rugby in the URC, while the physicality is the difference between the top four or five teams in the Champions Cup. It’s bred into us, so that part of the game is pretty set.
“The clubs in South Africa will have to become smarter tactically to compete with the top teams in Europe. It might take them a couple of years to find their feet, because it’s so different, but I think it’ll be great. People will enjoy it.

“The weather is going to play a role. Going to South Africa in January, it’s going to be hot, humid, and tough, and then the next week you come up here in the snow! It’s going to be very interesting to see how the teams can adjust.”

The 65-times capped Pollard says being involved in European Cup competition will be a great experience for players in his homeland.

“Seven, eight years ago, we were saying to ourselves that the Champions Cup is so awesome and we wished we were playing in it,” he said.

“I was saying how I’d like to come to England to play in it and now the boys are playing in it anyway!

“For them to come over and play in the Stade Michelin against Clermont, or go to the Aviva and play Leinster, it will be great to see our young guys in South Africa take that pressure, thrive under it and learn from it. It’ll be a great learning experience. I’m very excited to see what they can do.

“Hopefully some of the South African teams can do well this season, just to get our fans more of a taste for what it is like going into the play-offs. People might be pretty sceptical in the beginning, not understanding quite, but I think they will quickly realise it is massive and they’ll enjoy it. Every game is tough in the Champions Cup, there is no easy game.”

Pollard is currently sidelined, having injured a knee on his Leicester debut against Saracens in early October, but he is looking to return to action in the new year, with his club facing European group opposition from the Ospreys and Clermont Auvergne

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:37 am Who will play ay 10 for the $harks?

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:45 am

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:37 am Who will play ay 10 for the $harks?

Curwin Bosch

Harlequins Men’s Club Captain Stephan Lewies explained “LIV Village is an incredible charity and something very close to my heart that I have supported for many years. We are incredibly fortunate in this country and in our position as rugby players, but I have witnessed how hard life can be and along with the rest of the squad, we are determined to make a difference. To be able to use our profile to showcase and support the work of Liv Village is something we are proud to do. We can’t wait to scores tries, win matches and help change lives and we hope our supporters around the world will join us in helping LIV Village.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:10 pm The spivs have clearly shat all over this competition and the format for the groups is utterly shite. Complete fucking nonsense which is hard to understand for a drop in fan. Shower of fucking morons came up with it.

Still good when it gets to the knockout stages though.

You would have thought that Cvc would want the Premier competition to be more attractive to the passing fan.