NPR

Jb1981 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:02 pm I thought bullrush was banned at schools back in the 80s/90s - it used to be great fun. They still use it at the kids rugby practice though.

As for the drop out rate, for my son’s group at least, a lot of it came down to size. They are pretty small and as they get older the weight range becomes wider plus the kids are becoming more physical with more intent the tackles. There were a couple of concussions and a broken collarbone and those kids got gun shy and have now opted out. Coaching played a part too. My son’s team was fine and coached well. The injuries were in the other side who were coached by an American who tried his best but didn’t have the basics. When you compared the two teams, the technique difference was clear.

There’s also peer pressure of what your friends are doing. The rugby club here has one team this season (the first time going 15 aside, so approx. 20 kids) vs. three teams of the same age for soccer.

Grandpa wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:08 pm

Jb1981 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:02 pm I thought bullrush was banned at schools back in the 80s/90s - it used to be great fun. They still use it at the kids rugby practice though.

As for the drop out rate, for my son’s group at least, a lot of it came down to size. They are pretty small and as they get older the weight range becomes wider plus the kids are becoming more physical with more intent the tackles. There were a couple of concussions and a broken collarbone and those kids got gun shy and have now opted out. Coaching played a part too. My son’s team was fine and coached well. The injuries were in the other side who were coached by an American who tried his best but didn’t have the basics. When you compared the two teams, the technique difference was clear.

There’s also peer pressure of what your friends are doing. The rugby club here has one team this season (the first time going 15 aside, so approx. 20 kids) vs. three teams of the same age for soccer.

They banned bull rush? Why was that?

Soccer bigger than rugby... the world (in NZ) is changing... though I understand the physical side of things. Kids are bigger than when I was at school...

From the mid-1980s some schools decided to ban bullrush because they were concerned they would be held liable when children were hurt.

Has the banning of the lunchtime game "bullrush" in NZ schools ever been discussed at a Ministry of Education level? I'd like to know if this word has ever appeared in any Ministry of Education emails, policies, discussion documents or meeting agendas/summaries - and the context for it if so.

I have spoken to several school leaders and officials from across the
country, including principals, who have told me that the instruction to
ban Bullrush was issued by the Ministry of Education, possibly in
collaboration with a former Minister.

Jb1981 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:21 pm

Grandpa wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:08 pm

Jb1981 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:02 pm I thought bullrush was banned at schools back in the 80s/90s - it used to be great fun. They still use it at the kids rugby practice though.

As for the drop out rate, for my son’s group at least, a lot of it came down to size. They are pretty small and as they get older the weight range becomes wider plus the kids are becoming more physical with more intent the tackles. There were a couple of concussions and a broken collarbone and those kids got gun shy and have now opted out. Coaching played a part too. My son’s team was fine and coached well. The injuries were in the other side who were coached by an American who tried his best but didn’t have the basics. When you compared the two teams, the technique difference was clear.

There’s also peer pressure of what your friends are doing. The rugby club here has one team this season (the first time going 15 aside, so approx. 20 kids) vs. three teams of the same age for soccer.

They banned bull rush? Why was that?

Soccer bigger than rugby... the world (in NZ) is changing... though I understand the physical side of things. Kids are bigger than when I was at school...

There is a little bit online about bullrush being banned but nothing conclusive.

One search returned:

From the mid-1980s some schools decided to ban bullrush because they were concerned they would be held liable when children were hurt.

There is also an OIA request to the MoE which asked:

Has the banning of the lunchtime game "bullrush" in NZ schools ever been discussed at a Ministry of Education level? I'd like to know if this word has ever appeared in any Ministry of Education emails, policies, discussion documents or meeting agendas/summaries - and the context for it if so.

The response from the Ministry included:

I have spoken to several school leaders and officials from across the
country, including principals, who have told me that the instruction to
ban Bullrush was issued by the Ministry of Education, possibly in
collaboration with a former Minister.

Jb1981 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:42 pm I lived through the banning.

At our school they also stopped us doing a battle game where opposing teams, sometimes up to 10 a side, of a runner with someone perched on their shoulders would charge at each other and “fight”.

It’s not like we weren’t safety conscious though, we only ever played that in grass .

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:16 pm Great articles. He clearly is a remarkable leader.

Still, he's no Steve "Steve" Borthwick.

Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:33 am

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:16 pm Great articles. He clearly is a remarkable leader.

Still, he's no Steve "Steve" Borthwick.

Well, no. Perhaps we'll never have a Borthwick of our own, or an Eddie.

We do have a Fozzie though, so that's something.


Just on the age and weight thing... I remember discussing this on the old bored and there was talj then that a lot of schools and junior clubs had gone to weight division as opposed to age. It's crucial... some Polynesian kids develop ferociously in the early teens and the discrepancy is just unfair and dangerous. As for bullrush, one of my cousins broke a collarbone playing during the morning interval at primary school.

Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:33 am

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:16 pm Great articles. He clearly is a remarkable leader.

Still, he's no Steve "Steve" Borthwick.

Well, no. Perhaps we'll never have a Borthwick of our own, or an Eddie.

We do have a Fozzie though, so that's something.


Just on the age and weight thing... I remember discussing this on the old bored and there was talj then that a lot of schools and junior clubs had gone to weight division as opposed to age. It's crucial... some Polynesian kids develop ferociously in the early teens and the discrepancy is just unfair and dangerous. As for bullrush, one of my cousins broke a collarbone playing during the morning interval at primary school.

Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:33 am

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:16 pm Great articles. He clearly is a remarkable leader.

Still, he's no Steve "Steve" Borthwick.

Well, no. Perhaps we'll never have a Borthwick of our own, or an Eddie.

We do have a Fozzie though, so that's something.


Just on the age and weight thing... I remember discussing this on the old bored and there was talj then that a lot of schools and junior clubs had gone to weight division as opposed to age. It's crucial... some Polynesian kids develop ferociously in the early teens and the discrepancy is just unfair and dangerous. As for bullrush, one of my cousins broke a collarbone playing during the morning interval at primary school.

Grandpa wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:58 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:33 am

JM2K6 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:16 pm Great articles. He clearly is a remarkable leader.

Still, he's no Steve "Steve" Borthwick.

Well, no. Perhaps we'll never have a Borthwick of our own, or an Eddie.

We do have a Fozzie though, so that's something.


Just on the age and weight thing... I remember discussing this on the old bored and there was talj then that a lot of schools and junior clubs had gone to weight division as opposed to age. It's crucial... some Polynesian kids develop ferociously in the early teens and the discrepancy is just unfair and dangerous. As for bullrush, one of my cousins broke a collarbone playing during the morning interval at primary school.

Is bullrush any more dangerous than rugby though? It's like rugby except without a ball pretty much?

Sandstorm wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:09 pm

Grandpa wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:58 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:33 am


Well, no. Perhaps we'll never have a Borthwick of our own, or an Eddie.

We do have a Fozzie though, so that's something.


Just on the age and weight thing... I remember discussing this on the old bored and there was talj then that a lot of schools and junior clubs had gone to weight division as opposed to age. It's crucial... some Polynesian kids develop ferociously in the early teens and the discrepancy is just unfair and dangerous. As for bullrush, one of my cousins broke a collarbone playing during the morning interval at primary school.

Is bullrush any more dangerous than rugby though? It's like rugby except without a ball pretty much?

No ref and some people got a bit more aggressive than they should have. Clothes lines, tripping, collar grabs…..plus the punching that followed. Good times.

Jb1981 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:21 am It turns out there is a book on the bullrush saga and the life lessons the game taught us.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/boo ... k-bullrush

It was a magic game. Josh Kronfeld said it was rugby without a ball. Frank Bunce said: "All you have to do is mention bullrush and you've got bloody fifty friends". Michele A'Court said: "It was one of those rare moments where boys and girls could get their hands on each other." A Radio Live listener said: "You haven't played bullrush until you've played it in the exercise yard at Paparua prison."

The genius of the game was that it didn't matter whether you were good, middling, or completely useless. It was for everyone. If you were no good, it would have no bearing on the outcome. There was no team to feel let down and blame you.

Scotty Stevenson calls it a kind of Hunger Games, and he's not wrong; but it was a Hunger Games where everyone was laughing. It was a game that never took itself too seriously. It was a happy game, it was a comedy on grass. We couldn't get enough of it.

Rodney Hide remembers that it wasn't necessarily the big guys who were good at it. "I can remember big guys going down the field with two or three kids hanging off them and slowing them down sufficiently for a big guy to catch up and drop him. Everyone had a part to play. So the wee fast guy would take off and jump on a guy's back and hang on for dear life and then another kid would jump on and then some lumbering big kid would come up and just push him over. That's a great metaphor for life."

Greg McGee says it's elemental. "There's no ball, there's no nothing. And there's something about being either the hunter or the hunted, trying to pick out a weak member of the herd - it's sort of going back to the plains."

Guy Smiley wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:42 am

Jb1981 wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:21 am It turns out there is a book on the bullrush saga and the life lessons the game taught us.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/boo ... k-bullrush

It was a magic game. Josh Kronfeld said it was rugby without a ball. Frank Bunce said: "All you have to do is mention bullrush and you've got bloody fifty friends". Michele A'Court said: "It was one of those rare moments where boys and girls could get their hands on each other." A Radio Live listener said: "You haven't played bullrush until you've played it in the exercise yard at Paparua prison."

The genius of the game was that it didn't matter whether you were good, middling, or completely useless. It was for everyone. If you were no good, it would have no bearing on the outcome. There was no team to feel let down and blame you.

Scotty Stevenson calls it a kind of Hunger Games, and he's not wrong; but it was a Hunger Games where everyone was laughing. It was a game that never took itself too seriously. It was a happy game, it was a comedy on grass. We couldn't get enough of it.

Rodney Hide remembers that it wasn't necessarily the big guys who were good at it. "I can remember big guys going down the field with two or three kids hanging off them and slowing them down sufficiently for a big guy to catch up and drop him. Everyone had a part to play. So the wee fast guy would take off and jump on a guy's back and hang on for dear life and then another kid would jump on and then some lumbering big kid would come up and just push him over. That's a great metaphor for life."

Greg McGee says it's elemental. "There's no ball, there's no nothing. And there's something about being either the hunter or the hunted, trying to pick out a weak member of the herd - it's sort of going back to the plains."

Gumboot wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:19 am I was 9 when my family moved from Taihape to the big smoke (Wanganui) at the end of 1969. My brother and I were horrified when we started the new school year only to find there was no rugby, only soccer! Of course, we promptly started play-time bullrush. All our new friends seemed to enjoy it, but it got banned after a few days. Fascists.

Grandpa wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:42 am

Gumboot wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:19 am I was 9 when my family moved from Taihape to the big smoke (Wanganui) at the end of 1969. My brother and I were horrified when we started the new school year only to find there was no rugby, only soccer! Of course, we promptly started play-time bullrush. All our new friends seemed to enjoy it, but it got banned after a few days. Fascists.

Banned in 1969...

So you never got to play it after that? That's a travesty!

Gumboot wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:57 am

Grandpa wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:42 am

Gumboot wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:19 am I was 9 when my family moved from Taihape to the big smoke (Wanganui) at the end of 1969. My brother and I were horrified when we started the new school year only to find there was no rugby, only soccer! Of course, we promptly started play-time bullrush. All our new friends seemed to enjoy it, but it got banned after a few days. Fascists.

Banned in 1969...

So you never got to play it after that? That's a travesty!

Banned at that school, but we joined one of the Kaierau club junior teams...and never got to play soccer.