NPR

Pearson was just trying to hurt Biggar there. Totally unnecessary on a prone player.

One of the worst games of rugby I’ve ever seen, lost by a pathetic excuse for a team. Thankfully I am getting married this September rather than going to the comp

ASMO wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:31 pm Borthwick fuck off, England fuck off, i am done

I wonder if Borthwick will go for the 'We played some fantastic stuff out there" line than he used when captain all those years back.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:31 pm Pearson was just trying to hurt Biggar there. Totally unnecessary on a prone player.

Saints will be pleased with their signing the spiritual heir to Callum Clark.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:32 pm One of the worst games of rugby I’ve ever seen, lost by a pathetic excuse for a team. Thankfully I am getting married this September rather than going to the comp

Congrats, Pads. I know being more fun than following English rugby is a low bar to clear at the moment, but that really will be a much better use of your time.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:32 pm One of the worst games of rugby I’ve ever seen, lost by a pathetic excuse for a team. Thankfully I am getting married this September rather than going to the comp

Signing your life away is more fun than watching England play rugby.



(Congratulations and good luck!)

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:29 pm Tom Willis looks good when he carries - he's good in traffic.

#scraps

And consequently, surely that's the end for Dombrandt?

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:32 pm One of the worst games of rugby I’ve ever seen, lost by a pathetic excuse for a team. Thankfully I am getting married this September rather than going to the comp

I have tickets for Uruguay V Namibia, I am genuinely looking forward to that more than England

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:32 pm One of the worst games of rugby I’ve ever seen, lost by a pathetic excuse for a team. Thankfully I am getting married this September rather than going to the comp

Did you miss the last Wales v England game?

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:44 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:32 pm One of the worst games of rugby I’ve ever seen, lost by a pathetic excuse for a team. Thankfully I am getting married this September rather than going to the comp

Did you miss the last Wales v England game?

Lol Gat expected a loss tbh


Quite a turn up tbh

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:40 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:29 pm Tom Willis looks good when he carries - he's good in traffic.

#scraps

And consequently, surely that's the end for Dombrandt?

Is this a joke? Willis trucked it up a bit and lost the ball, Dombrandt actually broke the line and offloaded/passed. I like Willis a lot but if that was the first time you'd seen him play you'd wonder what he was there for.

Dreadful performance by England. A few players who are stealing a living at international level like Porter and Cokanasiga were absolutely dogshit, unbelievably bad. A lot of players with big seasons behind them also did not do well, Pearson was very quiet, Dan was dreadful and stank the place out, Martin tried hard but was ineffective, etc. Maybe a couple of players (Steward, Marchant) can be proud of their performances.

Biggest problem was the insipid approach that infected the whole team. Just utterly uninspiring, negative, anti rugby bullshit, put together by the least imaginative coach in the world and his Leicester safety blanket coaches.

Borthwick being interviewed. Even worse than I feared. He should be in a basement somewhere dealing with expenses and muttering about his red stapler.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:55 pm Borthwick being interviewed. Even worse than I feared. He should be in a basement somewhere dealing with expenses and muttering about his red stapler.

What did he say? I haven't paid attention to a word he has ever said since his delusional interview as captain a few years back.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:32 pm One of the worst games of rugby I’ve ever seen, lost by a pathetic excuse for a team. Thankfully I am getting married this September rather than going to the comp

Congrats mate, and well-timed.

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 7:07 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:55 pm Borthwick being interviewed. Even worse than I feared. He should be in a basement somewhere dealing with expenses and muttering about his red stapler.

What did he say? I haven't paid attention to a word he has ever said since his delusional interview as captain a few years back.

It was so boring I could not tell you. Something about data points.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:32 pm One of the worst games of rugby I’ve ever seen, lost by a pathetic excuse for a team. Thankfully I am getting married this September rather than going to the comp

Congratulations.

Hopefully this means England go on a form defying run to the final 2007 style.

tc27 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 7:41 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:32 pm One of the worst games of rugby I’ve ever seen, lost by a pathetic excuse for a team. Thankfully I am getting married this September rather than going to the comp

Congratulations.

Hopefully this means England go on a form defying run to the final 2007 style.

They wont make it out of the group

Stop it, even at the nadir of the Jones regime we put 50 past Japan. They're not going to beat us and we will make it out of the pool because Argentina are the only team we're paired up with who are good enough to beat even the shite England team we currently have.

Well played Wales. Stopped England playing completely. Thought Gareth Davies screaming up in defence was seriously effective.
Welsh Lineout was great, Scrum got into it eventually.
Defence was superb..Wales actually have xfactor all over the park now. Zammit, Jac Morgan, Tomas Williams, Dyer, Cosrello, etc. and some massive lumps in the centre and across the pack.
Also fitness in the last 20, and nicking it at the death is going to start turning opposition supporters into sour whinging fucking crybabies again, which is always nice.

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:08 pm Well played Wales. Stopped England playing completely. Thought Gareth Davies screaming up in defence was seriously effective.
Welsh Lineout was great, Scrum got into it eventually.
Defence was superb..Wales actually have xfactor all over the park now. Zammit, Jac Morgan, Tomas Williams, Dyer, Cosrello, etc. and some massive lumps in the centre and across the pack.
Also fitness in the last 20, and nicking it at the death is going to start turning opposition supporters into sour whinging fucking crybabies again, which is always nice.

I thought you refused to watch rugby on moral grounds due to the risks to player health?

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:10 pm

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:08 pm Well played Wales. Stopped England playing completely. Thought Gareth Davies screaming up in defence was seriously effective.
Welsh Lineout was great, Scrum got into it eventually.
Defence was superb..Wales actually have xfactor all over the park now. Zammit, Jac Morgan, Tomas Williams, Dyer, Cosrello, etc. and some massive lumps in the centre and across the pack.
Also fitness in the last 20, and nicking it at the death is going to start turning opposition supporters into sour whinging fucking crybabies again, which is always nice.

I thought you refused to watch rugby on moral grounds due to the risks to player health?

None of us watched rugby in that one.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:52 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:40 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:29 pm Tom Willis looks good when he carries - he's good in traffic.

#scraps

And consequently, surely that's the end for Dombrandt?

Is this a joke? Willis trucked it up a bit and lost the ball, Dombrandt actually broke the line and offloaded/passed. I like Willis a lot but if that was the first time you'd seen him play you'd wonder what he was there for.

Dreadful performance by England. A few players who are stealing a living at international level like Porter and Cokanasiga were absolutely dogshit, unbelievably bad. A lot of players with big seasons behind them also did not do well, Pearson was very quiet, Dan was dreadful and stank the place out, Martin tried hard but was ineffective, etc. Maybe a couple of players (Steward, Marchant) can be proud of their performances.

Biggest problem was the insipid approach that infected the whole team. Just utterly uninspiring, negative, anti rugby bullshit, put together by the least imaginative coach in the world and his Leicester safety blanket coaches.

Not at all. Dombrandt reminds me of a poor man's Harinordoquy when the latter stopped doing his work at 8 (understandable to a degree since he was a flanker shoehorned in the there by Mackay and it was breaking him physically): looks good in the loose stuff but contributes nothing where the physicality matters.

<<smug mode engaged>>

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:29 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:52 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:40 pm

And consequently, surely that's the end for Dombrandt?

Is this a joke? Willis trucked it up a bit and lost the ball, Dombrandt actually broke the line and offloaded/passed. I like Willis a lot but if that was the first time you'd seen him play you'd wonder what he was there for.

Dreadful performance by England. A few players who are stealing a living at international level like Porter and Cokanasiga were absolutely dogshit, unbelievably bad. A lot of players with big seasons behind them also did not do well, Pearson was very quiet, Dan was dreadful and stank the place out, Martin tried hard but was ineffective, etc. Maybe a couple of players (Steward, Marchant) can be proud of their performances.

Biggest problem was the insipid approach that infected the whole team. Just utterly uninspiring, negative, anti rugby bullshit, put together by the least imaginative coach in the world and his Leicester safety blanket coaches.

Not at all. Dombrandt reminds me of a poor man's Harinordoquy when the latter stopped doing his work at 8 (understandable to a degree since he was a flanker shoehorned in the there by Mackay and it was breaking him physically): looks good in the loose stuff but contributes nothing where the physicality matters.

Okay. And Willis lost the ball in contact twice in his short time in the pitch. I don't see how that leapfrogs him.

Certainly if you just want someone who can put their head down and run into people and hopefully over them all game, you pick Willis and Billy. But it's never worked for England with Billy at world cups - even in 2019 he never showed up. So you'll forgive me for being exasperated at rewarding such a limited approach. But I guess that's what we're guaranteed to get from Borthwick.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:46 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:29 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:52 pm

Is this a joke? Willis trucked it up a bit and lost the ball, Dombrandt actually broke the line and offloaded/passed. I like Willis a lot but if that was the first time you'd seen him play you'd wonder what he was there for.

Dreadful performance by England. A few players who are stealing a living at international level like Porter and Cokanasiga were absolutely dogshit, unbelievably bad. A lot of players with big seasons behind them also did not do well, Pearson was very quiet, Dan was dreadful and stank the place out, Martin tried hard but was ineffective, etc. Maybe a couple of players (Steward, Marchant) can be proud of their performances.

Biggest problem was the insipid approach that infected the whole team. Just utterly uninspiring, negative, anti rugby bullshit, put together by the least imaginative coach in the world and his Leicester safety blanket coaches.

Not at all. Dombrandt reminds me of a poor man's Harinordoquy when the latter stopped doing his work at 8 (understandable to a degree since he was a flanker shoehorned in the there by Mackay and it was breaking him physically): looks good in the loose stuff but contributes nothing where the physicality matters.

Okay. And Willis lost the ball in contact twice in his short time in the pitch. I don't see how that leapfrogs him.

Certainly if you just want someone who can put their head down and run into people and hopefully over them all game, you pick Willis and Billy. But it's never worked for England with Billy at world cups - even in 2019 he never showed up. So you'll forgive me for being exasperated at rewarding such a limited approach. But I guess that's what we're guaranteed to get from Borthwick.

I think Dombrandt's skill set makes him an excellent 8....... at club level. Unfortunately, I don't think he has the physicality needed at the top end of intl level: and yes, you are right, that is a damning indictment of what rugby rewards.

I thought Dombrant was anoymous - although he certanly wasn't the only one

He did a couple of good things but that was it. Certainly if Willis had shown up I would expect it to be curtains for his chances, but given Willis fucked up a few times and has no international pedigree, Mercer didn't make it, and Billy is coming back from injury I'm surprised people are so quick to write his obituary.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:57 pm He did a couple of good things but that was it. Certainly if Willis had shown up I would expect it to be curtains for his chances, but given Willis fucked up a few times and has no international pedigree, Mercer didn't make it, and Billy is coming back from injury I'm surprised people are so quick to write his obituary.

What surprised me was how badly the club axis failed to work of Dombrandt, Care, Smith and Marchant. These guys function together week in and out and tonight often looked like they had just met.

Yeah, even if Dombrandt isn't the reincarnation of Kieran Read, he remains one of England's best options. Unfortunately for our standing in the international game, his is hardly the only position where we face the issue of no nailed on candidate, just a few options with differing drawbacks.

Marcus Smith playing outside Danny Care and Alex Dombrandt with Joe Marchant at centre.

How will you blame Owen Farrell for this one?

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:46 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:29 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:52 pm

Is this a joke? Willis trucked it up a bit and lost the ball, Dombrandt actually broke the line and offloaded/passed. I like Willis a lot but if that was the first time you'd seen him play you'd wonder what he was there for.

Dreadful performance by England. A few players who are stealing a living at international level like Porter and Cokanasiga were absolutely dogshit, unbelievably bad. A lot of players with big seasons behind them also did not do well, Pearson was very quiet, Dan was dreadful and stank the place out, Martin tried hard but was ineffective, etc. Maybe a couple of players (Steward, Marchant) can be proud of their performances.

Biggest problem was the insipid approach that infected the whole team. Just utterly uninspiring, negative, anti rugby bullshit, put together by the least imaginative coach in the world and his Leicester safety blanket coaches.

Not at all. Dombrandt reminds me of a poor man's Harinordoquy when the latter stopped doing his work at 8 (understandable to a degree since he was a flanker shoehorned in the there by Mackay and it was breaking him physically): looks good in the loose stuff but contributes nothing where the physicality matters.

Okay. And Willis lost the ball in contact twice in his short time in the pitch. I don't see how that leapfrogs him.

Certainly if you just want someone who can put their head down and run into people and hopefully over them all game, you pick Willis and Billy. But it's never worked for England with Billy at world cups - even in 2019 he never showed up. So you'll forgive me for being exasperated at rewarding such a limited approach. But I guess that's what we're guaranteed to get from Borthwick.

JM - Dombrandt has been utter shite for England, period.

Willis carried off the back of a retreating England scrum in his own-22 and broke two tackles and kept the ball off the deck long enough to secure possession. It was actually quite impressive. He also prevented three Welsh defenders holding him up for a choke tacke with some very impressive strength. I don't remember him knocking on twice but even if he did he showed glimpses that he's clearly a very strong bastard and a handful to bring down.

The Quins players in the 8, 9, 10 axis were largely awful. I don't necessarily blame them as they are being coached by a man operating miles above his Peter line but given their time together I thought they'd be better than they were. Much much better.

Sinckler, JCock, and Porter need to be fired from a cannon into the sun.

Care was asked to box kick the shit out of it and did it well - almost every kick on the money. Boring negative bullshit that wastes what he's good at, but he did the job.

Likewise, Smith did actually put players into space every now and then and was the only one creating space for others. Kicked well off the tee and from hand, given the game plan. Made one error I can remember. Ford provided a lesser version of the exact same thing when he came on (but if we're going to kick the shit out of it, Ford should start)

Dombrandt was far too quiet but did a couple of good things. He got brickbats in the 6N for making errors so it's amusing seeing Willis get excused the same.

None of them are to blame for the fact that England rocked up being asked to play one out rugby and kick chase. Happy to criticise the things they did badly.

Edit: to be clear, none of them were good. The game plan was insipid and while each of them had their moments none of them stuck their hand up for selection. However even just that made them better than two thirds of the team. Several players were absolute dogshit, and only 2, maybe 3, were actually any good.

A substitute making his debut for the last 20 minutes joining a team playing like dogshit - all the debutants deserve some sympathy for that goat fuck

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:53 pm A substitute making his debut for the last 20 minutes joining a team playing like dogshit - all the debutants deserve some sympathy for that goat fuck

Agreed. Tom Willis will come good. It just didn't put him in the driving seat or anything. Same story with Theo Dan - we all know he has the goods, no one is going to accuse him of being a talentless bottler despite that performance. It's one of those things where the malaise runs through the team, with even the good players making errors, the bad ones endless numbers of them, and the inexperienced players can't rise above it.

We're fucked for the world cup no matter what the 1st XV does against the Wales reserves next week.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:14 pm Marcus Smith playing outside Danny Care and Alex Dombrandt with Joe Marchant at centre.

How will you blame Owen Farrell for this one?

He had a tracksuit top on as a non playing squad member. The scruffy git should have been wearing a blazer and tie.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:02 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:57 pm He did a couple of good things but that was it. Certainly if Willis had shown up I would expect it to be curtains for his chances, but given Willis fucked up a few times and has no international pedigree, Mercer didn't make it, and Billy is coming back from injury I'm surprised people are so quick to write his obituary.

What surprised me was how badly the club axis failed to work of Dombrandt, Care, Smith and Marchant. These guys function together week in and out and tonight often looked like they had just met.

They finished 6th in a pretty average league, not sure why we expect miracles from them.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:57 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:53 pm A substitute making his debut for the last 20 minutes joining a team playing like dogshit - all the debutants deserve some sympathy for that goat fuck

Agreed. Tom Willis will come good. It just didn't put him in the driving seat or anything. Same story with Theo Dan - we all know he has the goods, no one is going to accuse him of being a talentless bottler despite that performance. It's one of those things where the malaise runs through the team, with even the good players making errors, the bad ones endless numbers of them, and the inexperienced players can't rise above it.

We're fucked for the world cup no matter what the 1st XV does against the Wales reserves next week.

Dan is a Romanian lad (another Eng poach ;¬) ) who was playing up here at Ampthill. Sadly, seeing the state of Romanian rugby, I suspect he'd have put up a better effort against the USA last night on his own.

Torygraph has singled out Dombrandt
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... la-strong/

I watched all the matches yesterday.
Englan's performance was far and away the worst on display!!!!
Utterly dispiriting