Kicking off in Israel

[PCPhil]

Okay. Cool.

[Sandstorm]

I can not believe a few of our posters first reactions to the brutal mutilation of civilians has been - yeah but Israel.

Refry, Sandstorm, and Muttonbird.

Fuck yourself, you fucking mong.

[fishfoodie]

Was reading from someone reputable that yesterday was the bloodiest day in the history of the State of Israel. This will change Israeli society in a way that is unlikely to benefit the people Hamas purport to fight for

If you mean what I think you mean, it'll just lengthen their recruitment line.

Exactly.

Gaza is 2 million people living in squalid conditions, with 50% unemployment, in an area smaller than the Isle of Wight, & completely dependant on foreign "Aid".

This situation has been created by Israel. Palestinians in Gaza were fed up with promises from Fatha, that they would make their lives better, by Politics, & negotiation, & in the meanwhile Hamas were running soup kitchens & passing out Iranian money in Gaza, & striking out against Israel.

If they wanted to create an environment for breeding sucide bombers, & psychopaths who'll murder, rape, & maim without any thought of the consequences, they couldn't have done a better job. What are they going to do, make life more miserible & bleak for them ?

[Uncle fester]

Remember reading a sci-fi novel and the book was about the notion that war had become extinct throughout the world except for Palestine where the locals were deliberately kept at war so the rest of the world could observe under laboratory conditions.

Eventually the participants twigged it and launched a plot to conquer the rest of the world which was essentially defenceless.

[Uncle fester]

Was reading from someone reputable that yesterday was the bloodiest day in the history of the State of Israel. This will change Israeli society in a way that is unlikely to benefit the people Hamas purport to fight for

If you mean what I think you mean, it'll just lengthen their recruitment line.

Exactly.

Gaza is 2 million people living in squalid conditions, with 50% unemployment, in an area smaller than the Isle of Wight, & completely dependant on foreign "Aid".

This situation has been created by Israel. Palestinians in Gaza were fed up with promises from Fatha, that they would make their lives better, by Politics, & negotiation, & in the meanwhile Hamas were running soup kitchens & passing out Iranian money in Gaza, & striking out against Israel.

If they wanted to create an environment for breeding sucide bombers, & psychopaths who'll murder, rape, & maim without any thought of the consequences, they couldn't have done a better job. What are they going to do, make life more miserible & bleak for them ?

For a proper solution, you need to give Palestinians a viable state or incorporate them into Israel proper, which means giving up control of the country.

Current situation probably isn't sustainable long term.

[David in Gwent]

You really are a derpy mofo

I'm really not, however, it's without a doubt that the world looks on at Biden as a weak, sad president and a perfect example of the fall of Western Civilisation, maybe we should keep you guy's weird hard on for American Liberal politics to the Biden thread.

Anyone as invested in culture war bollox like you is a binary motherfucker which is the last refuge of the cunt

Says whom?

[Line6 HXFX]

Deliberate economic terrorism, state murder.. and economic oppression is a real thing folks.

In the U.K. alone, 350 thousand completely unnecessary Austerity deaths.
Millions sanctioned and millions more sent to foodbanks.
Since 2010..a massive jump in the use of anti anxiety and anti depression medication.
Population was so pissed off and miserable, it even voted for Brexit, to throw a bloody big spoke in the wheel.
Wales could have avoided the oppression of Austerity if we borrowed some cash.

[David in Gwent]

I mean the solution (2 state) has been doing the rounds since the seventies (through the UN etc) and Israel, again, and again has stepped in to stop it.
Israel doesn't want a Palestinian state, for the reasons outlined. Essentially lots of young angry men, on Israels border, with practically zero resources (water) able to import all sorts of nasty shit to "protect" themselves, ., and so they (Israelies) think of that (two state solution...or the only solution) as a massive threat to their security.
So nothing is going to change..

I honestly thought everyone knew this? Guys if you don't even know this you should just you know, go away and sneer at the bins etc.

This is also why the English don't want the Welsh to do this (borrow to invest and be able fly the nest). Isreal can embargo, control, and imprision Palestine through poverty and penury...again loke the English do to the welsh.

This is hardly news.

As an aside...Wales wanted to borrow and invest to avoid austerity, not in guns and arms. but in things like the NHS, invest in clean energy, rail infrastructure.. when borrowing was so cheap they were giving cash away.. David Cameron and George Osborne (our tory oppressors) wanted Wales to suffer terribly as Wales doing well and England doing Austerity would be a tory nightmare.

Again.. actually happenned.
Sneer at the bins. Not me.

Have you ever thought about doing stand up. With a dead pan delivery you would totally smash it. Start of with the Welsh bit first then slowly mix in the Palestine bit, in fact, do you need an agent?

[David in Gwent]

Exactly.

Gaza is 2 million people living in squalid conditions, with 50% unemployment, in an area smaller than the Isle of Wight, & completely dependant on foreign "Aid".

This situation has been created by Israel. Palestinians in Gaza were fed up with promises from Fatha, that they would make their lives better, by Politics, & negotiation, & in the meanwhile Hamas were running soup kitchens & passing out Iranian money in Gaza, & striking out against Israel.

If they wanted to create an environment for breeding sucide bombers, & psychopaths who'll murder, rape, & maim without any thought of the consequences, they couldn't have done a better job. What are they going to do, make life more miserible & bleak for them ?

For a proper solution, you need to give Palestinians a viable state or incorporate them into Israel proper, which means giving up control of the country.

Current situation probably isn't sustainable long term.

There own state was an option maybe 20/30 years ago but Hamas and to lesser extent Fatah fucked that with trying to outdo each other in rabble rousing. Jordan and in fact multiple states have tried to get the Palestinians to stop being cunts and dial down the rhetoric but they refuse. The working class Arab rube thinks its all great craic but Bibi remains in power because of the constant and undeniable threat to the fabric of Israeli society.

It's more than a threat to the fabric, if they thought they would have the chance it would be genocide, plain and simple.

[David in Gwent]

Was reading from someone reputable that yesterday was the bloodiest day in the history of the State of Israel. This will change Israeli society in a way that is unlikely to benefit the people Hamas purport to fight for

If you mean what I think you mean, it'll just lengthen their recruitment line.

Exactly.

Gaza is 2 million people living in squalid conditions, with 50% unemployment, in an area smaller than the Isle of Wight, & completely dependant on foreign "Aid".

This situation has been created by Israel. Palestinians in Gaza were fed up with promises from Fatha, that they would make their lives better, by Politics, & negotiation, & in the meanwhile Hamas were running soup kitchens & passing out Iranian money in Gaza, & striking out against Israel.

If they wanted to create an environment for breeding sucide bombers, & psychopaths who'll murder, rape, & maim without any thought of the consequences, they couldn't have done a better job. What are they going to do, make life more miserible & bleak for them ?

That's definitely one way of looking at it.

There is also a theory that Gaza is kept the way it is by the Muslim world to exist entirely just to be a thorn in the Israeli side.

[Uncle fester]

Exactly.

Gaza is 2 million people living in squalid conditions, with 50% unemployment, in an area smaller than the Isle of Wight, & completely dependant on foreign "Aid".

This situation has been created by Israel. Palestinians in Gaza were fed up with promises from Fatha, that they would make their lives better, by Politics, & negotiation, & in the meanwhile Hamas were running soup kitchens & passing out Iranian money in Gaza, & striking out against Israel.

If they wanted to create an environment for breeding sucide bombers, & psychopaths who'll murder, rape, & maim without any thought of the consequences, they couldn't have done a better job. What are they going to do, make life more miserible & bleak for them ?

For a proper solution, you need to give Palestinians a viable state or incorporate them into Israel proper, which means giving up control of the country.

Current situation probably isn't sustainable long term.

There own state was an option maybe 20/30 years ago but Hamas and to lesser extent Fatah fucked that with trying to outdo each other in rabble rousing. Jordan and in fact multiple states have tried to get the Palestinians to stop being cunts and dial down the rhetoric but they refuse. The working class Arab rube thinks its all great craic but Bibi remains in power because of the constant and undeniable threat to the fabric of Israeli society.

You don't seem to consider Israel sharing any of the blame here?

[Ymx]

I can not believe a few of our posters first reactions to the brutal mutilation of civilians has been - yeah but Israel.

Refry, Sandstorm, and Muttonbird.

Fuck yourself, you fucking mong.

You are a despicable prick, agreeing with that sick take of muttonmong! What the fuck is wrong with you ?!!!

[David in Gwent]

Exactly.

Gaza is 2 million people living in squalid conditions, with 50% unemployment, in an area smaller than the Isle of Wight, & completely dependant on foreign "Aid".

This situation has been created by Israel. Palestinians in Gaza were fed up with promises from Fatha, that they would make their lives better, by Politics, & negotiation, & in the meanwhile Hamas were running soup kitchens & passing out Iranian money in Gaza, & striking out against Israel.

If they wanted to create an environment for breeding sucide bombers, & psychopaths who'll murder, rape, & maim without any thought of the consequences, they couldn't have done a better job. What are they going to do, make life more miserible & bleak for them ?

That's definitely one way of looking at it.

There is also a theory that Gaza is kept the way it is by the Muslim world to exist entirely just to be a thorn in the Israeli side.

Its not a theory. It's a long held strategy since not long after the 6 day war

The very fact that Israel exists is an affront to Arab and Persian sensibilities. Quite why, I'm not sure, Roman maps showing Judea, literally a Millenia before Islam became a thing kind of makes me think the whole thing has been made up.

[Ymx]

What was this "music festival for peace held near the Gaza border fence"?

Unless they had actively engaged Palestinian representatives, it just looks like Israeli settlers partying outside the doors of an open air prison.

Yup

Here is the comment mocking those at the festival

And here was the result for a young girl at the festival

Spoiler

Show

[/url]

Go fuck yourself !!

[Uncle fester]

Have you been huffing glue Ymx?

[fishfoodie]

If you mean what I think you mean, it'll just lengthen their recruitment line.

Exactly.

Gaza is 2 million people living in squalid conditions, with 50% unemployment, in an area smaller than the Isle of Wight, & completely dependant on foreign "Aid".

This situation has been created by Israel. Palestinians in Gaza were fed up with promises from Fatha, that they would make their lives better, by Politics, & negotiation, & in the meanwhile Hamas were running soup kitchens & passing out Iranian money in Gaza, & striking out against Israel.

If they wanted to create an environment for breeding sucide bombers, & psychopaths who'll murder, rape, & maim without any thought of the consequences, they couldn't have done a better job. What are they going to do, make life more miserible & bleak for them ?

Egypt and Jordan are more responsible for what has and is going on in Gaza. You believe dishonest brokers if you think otherwise.

Every Arab country has treated the Palestinians like shit, while simultaniously wringing their hands & cursing the Jews.

Gadaffi feted the PLO, & then when he got fed up with the Palestinian refugees in Libya stiring the shit, he kicked them all out, ditto Jordan, & double ditto Egypt.

I remember reading stories about how Palestinians used to pay smugglers to bring in white goods to Gaza, & when they opened the cardboard, they'd find bags of concrete, or sand, or anything but what they'd paid a forture for. Fucking over Palestinians was practically a national sport in Egypt.

The situation might have been recoverable during the Eisenhower administration, when Israel was new, & buying out the refugees was possible, but it's festered too long( sorry about the pun), & now 90% the people who say their Palestinian, haven't had a relative in the country for ~70 years.

The real point of no return was the fall of the Soviet union, & millions leaving the USSR & claiming their right of return. They're mostly the ones living down by Gaza, in shitty towerblocks knocked up in the early 90s, looking like they were transplanted from an East German sink estate.

[David in Gwent]

As for the Al Aqsa mosque, which is held in such high regard. It was built on the back of Islamic aggression and built on the grounds of an important Jewish temple.

I'm in the camp that the Jewish people went home and Israel is geographically their spiritual birthplace.

Not that I don't think both religions are entrenched in the belief that they are better than everyone else and are gods chosen people.

[Marylandolorian]

I can not believe a few of our posters first reactions to the brutal mutilation of civilians has been - yeah but Israel.

Refry, Sandstorm, and Muttonbird.

Fuck yourself, you fucking mong.

Don’t worry he likes to stir up his own shit, has been doing that for years.

[Ymx]

Have you been huffing glue Ymx?

I’m just sickened at these bloody feral animals that could do that do a young girl. A naive young lefty girl who hoped for peace. But instead faced an unimaginable death at the hands of those she hoped peace with. Horrifically mangled body, being paraded down a road to a sea of cheering animals.

And then to hear such vile comments boils my fvcking blood, especially from folk on this bored. Should be fvcking ashamed of themselves.

[Uncle fester]

Have you been huffing glue Ymx?

I’m just sickened at these bloody feral animals that could do that do a young girl. A naive young lefty girl who hoped for peace. But instead faced an unimaginable death at the hands of those she hoped peace with.

And then to hear such vile comments boils my fvcking blood, especially from folk on this bored. Should be fvcking ashamed of themselves.

Asking why the festival was in such a dangerous place is a perfectly valid question IMO.

[David in Gwent]

Have you been huffing glue Ymx?

I’m just sickened at these bloody feral animals that could do that do a young girl. A naive young lefty girl who hoped for peace. But instead faced an unimaginable death at the hands of those she hoped peace with.

And then to hear such vile comments boils my fvcking blood, especially from folk on this bored. Should be fvcking ashamed of themselves.

Asking why the festival was in such a dangerous place is a perfectly valid question IMO.

He wouldn't have a problem if that was how the question was asked, but it wasn't. It was written like they deserved it.

[Slick]

That's definitely one way of looking at it.

There is also a theory that Gaza is kept the way it is by the Muslim world to exist entirely just to be a thorn in the Israeli side.

Its not a theory. It's a long held strategy since not long after the 6 day war

The very fact that Israel exists is an affront to Arab and Persian sensibilities. Quite why, I'm not sure, Roman maps showing Judea, literally a Millenia before Islam became a thing kind of makes me think the whole thing has been made up.

When are we demanding Constantinople back?

[David in Gwent]

Its not a theory. It's a long held strategy since not long after the 6 day war

The very fact that Israel exists is an affront to Arab and Persian sensibilities. Quite why, I'm not sure, Roman maps showing Judea, literally a Millenia before Islam became a thing kind of makes me think the whole thing has been made up.

When are we demanding Constantinople back?

It's a fair point, my family still has grist to sort out with some Norwegians and some Algerian Barbary slave traders. However, Judaism beats Islam by a millenia so I think that's a pretty good, if debatable, rule of thumb.

[Slick]

The very fact that Israel exists is an affront to Arab and Persian sensibilities. Quite why, I'm not sure, Roman maps showing Judea, literally a Millenia before Islam became a thing kind of makes me think the whole thing has been made up.

When are we demanding Constantinople back?

It's a fair point, my family still has grist to sort out with some Norwegians and some Algerian Barbary slave traders. However, Judaism beats Islam by a millenia so I think that's a pretty good, if debatable, rule of thumb.

To be fair, it’s less that mine is a good point than that yours is a fucking stupid one

[Uncle fester]

Well they were part of the Ottoman Empire so consideration of statehood is irrelevant.

The essential fact is that people lived there and they've been turfed out of it and corralled in what is essentially a concentration camp by the very people who should understand how wrong it is.

[David in Gwent]

When are we demanding Constantinople back?

It's a fair point, my family still has grist to sort out with some Norwegians and some Algerian Barbary slave traders. However, Judaism beats Islam by a millenia so I think that's a pretty good, if debatable, rule of thumb.

To be fair, it’s less that mine is a good point than that yours is a fucking stupid one

To be fair, the whole Muslim Palestine thing is a scam.

[Uncle fester]

When are we demanding Constantinople back?

It's a fair point, my family still has grist to sort out with some Norwegians and some Algerian Barbary slave traders. However, Judaism beats Islam by a millenia so I think that's a pretty good, if debatable, rule of thumb.

To be fair, it’s less that mine is a good point than that yours is a fucking stupid one

It's essentially the argument that Armenia have used to claim territory that is internationally recognised as part of Azerbaijan.

And one that Putin is falsely using to claim Ukrainian territory.

[David in Gwent]

Well they were part of the Ottoman Empire so consideration of statehood is irrelevant.

The essential fact is that people lived there and they've been turfed out of it and corralled in what is essentially a concentration camp by the very people who should understand how wrong it is.

Hang on, weren't the original Jews "turfed" out of Judea first, or is that totally unimportant?

And the very people who were hunted to the brink of extinction in Europe were attacked, by several Arab armies, shortly after they set up their homeland should have sympathy to the people who wanted them run into the sea?

[David in Gwent]

It's a fair point, my family still has grist to sort out with some Norwegians and some Algerian Barbary slave traders. However, Judaism beats Islam by a millenia so I think that's a pretty good, if debatable, rule of thumb.

To be fair, it’s less that mine is a good point than that yours is a fucking stupid one

It's essentially the argument that Armenia have used to claim territory that is internationally recognised as part of Azerbaijan.

And one that Putin is falsely using to claim Ukrainian territory.

It's not, the Romans actually called it the Land of the Jews. It's not some made up shit

[Line6 HXFX]

Good article here...


: Are you suing the Anti-Defamation League for their protest to the FCC over "Jewish Princess," the song you wrote which they consider anti-Semitic?
Zappa: There's no suit. The ADL is a noisemaking organization that tries to apply pressure on people in order to manufacture a stereotype image of Jews that suits their idea of a good time. They go around claiming that other people are saying things that produce stereotype images of Jews. What they're really about is manufacturing a freeze-dried, totally perfect image of a Jew. It's an organization paid for by Jewish people. Their job is to make sure that everybody who is not a Jew will always perceive Jews in just this one special, perfect way. This is wrong. It's as wrong as your assuming that all musicians are the same. There's all different kinds of Jews, too.

Relix: Did you have your lawyer call them for an apology?
Zappa: I told them, yeah. I called them up and demanded an apology. I knew I wasn't going to get it, but I'm not going to take any bull from them. I don't believe in anybody who tries to control PR that way. I think it's as dangerous as the things the Nazis did and just as fake.

Relix: Do you expect a similar uproar with your forthcoming song about oral sex, "Catholic Girls?"
Zappa: No, but I didn't expect one with "Jewish Princess" either. You see, when you have an organization like that, their first duty is to prove to themselves that they need to exist. If it hadn't been me, it would have been somebody else they would have been talking about in the newspapers. I just came along and was their meat for that month.

"The songs I write about women are not gratuitous attacks on them, but statements of fact. The song Jewish Princess caused the Anti-Defamation League of the B'nai B'rith to complain bitterly and demand an apology. I did not apologize then and refuse to do so now because, unlike The Unicorn, such creatures do exist -- and deserve to be 'commemorated' with their own special opus." - Frank Zappa in The Real Frank Zappa Book.






He then wrote Catholic Girls to demonstrate he is an equal opportunity satirist.


....again, just to clarify a Hamas Israel war thread..with plenty of death..or indeed a Northern Ireland thread is no place for the song Jewish Princess or Catholic Girls by Frank Zappa.

[fishfoodie]

There own state was an option maybe 20/30 years ago but Hamas and to lesser extent Fatah fucked that with trying to outdo each other in rabble rousing. Jordan and in fact multiple states have tried to get the Palestinians to stop being cunts and dial down the rhetoric but they refuse. The working class Arab rube thinks its all great craic but Bibi remains in power because of the constant and undeniable threat to the fabric of Israeli society.

You don't seem to consider Israel sharing any of the blame here?

Less than elsewhere but I don't have an issue with the state existing. I get that loads do. Interestingly and touching on a point fishfoodie is alluding to the actual population of Palestine when Jews started buying up the land from the early 1900's was minuscule. The idea there was a vast functional state is bullshit. I love the Wikipedia page on Palestine which says something like 'Palestine has varied geographically throughout history but now it is the Greater State of Israel and Gaza and the West Bank'. Sure it fucking is

The Druze were always the most interesting group to me.

They've been there, & in other countries in the area forever, & the Jews don't fuck with them at all. They serve in the IDF, & manage their own villages, & the Arabs don't fuck with them either, because if you do that, you just disappear. They don't get treated nearly as well on Jordan, or Syria, or Lebanon.

They made their peace with the Jews, & kept their traditions & never left their land. The muslims had shit leaders, & ran away in the face of jewish terrorism, & they've never been able to reclaim their land as a result.

[David in Gwent]

You don't seem to consider Israel sharing any of the blame here?

Less than elsewhere but I don't have an issue with the state existing. I get that loads do. Interestingly and touching on a point fishfoodie is alluding to the actual population of Palestine when Jews started buying up the land from the early 1900's was minuscule. The idea there was a vast functional state is bullshit. I love the Wikipedia page on Palestine which says something like 'Palestine has varied geographically throughout history but now it is the Greater State of Israel and Gaza and the West Bank'. Sure it fucking is

The Druze were always the most interesting group to me.

They've been there, & in other countries in the area forever, & the Jews don't fuck with them at all. They serve in the IDF, & manage their own villages, & the Arabs don't fuck with them either, because if you do that, you just disappear. They don't get treated nearly as well on Jordan, or Syria, or Lebanon.

They made their peace with the Jews, & kept their traditions & never left their land. The muslims had shit leaders, & ran away in the face of jewish terrorism, & they've never been able to reclaim their land as a result.

Don''t you mean "freedom fighting"

[Ymx]

[fishfoodie]

Less than elsewhere but I don't have an issue with the state existing. I get that loads do. Interestingly and touching on a point fishfoodie is alluding to the actual population of Palestine when Jews started buying up the land from the early 1900's was minuscule. The idea there was a vast functional state is bullshit. I love the Wikipedia page on Palestine which says something like 'Palestine has varied geographically throughout history but now it is the Greater State of Israel and Gaza and the West Bank'. Sure it fucking is

The Druze were always the most interesting group to me.

They've been there, & in other countries in the area forever, & the Jews don't fuck with them at all. They serve in the IDF, & manage their own villages, & the Arabs don't fuck with them either, because if you do that, you just disappear. They don't get treated nearly as well on Jordan, or Syria, or Lebanon.

They made their peace with the Jews, & kept their traditions & never left their land. The muslims had shit leaders, & ran away in the face of jewish terrorism, & they've never been able to reclaim their land as a result.

Don''t you mean "freedom fighting"

The Irgun got a tutorial on fighting the English from Robert Briscoe, who knew, & ran guns for Michael Collins, & Hamas have been using the tactics of the Provos when they decided to start putting bombs in Birminham, because it was obvious they didn't care enough about bombs in Belfast.

Terrorism exists, because politics & diplomacy fails !

If Westminster had actually followed thru on Home Rule, & faced down the Unionists, the IRA would have remained a fringe organization !

If the Unionists & Westminster had responded to the Civil rights movement; the Provos would never have existed !

If people lose all faith that they can get their basic human rights thru peaceful means, can anyone be surprised when they are happy to lose them thru violence ?

[Line6 HXFX]

Hah, I am having a great time in the Kicking off in Israel thread..chuckling to myself all the way through it.


Fun fact..When I was hit by a car, I was laughing on the floor too, and I actually thought I broke my back.
My therapist when I told her, thought it was funny too.

So me laughing is just not to be taken seriously.

Look It's been kicking off in Israel for the last 54 years I have been alive.

No two state solution, it will be kicking off for the next 54 years.

As is Israels plan.
So if you can't laugh..what's the fucking point?
It's not like we will ever feel compelled to go out there and fight for Netenyahoo.
All together now..
I want a nasty little Jewish Princess (la-la-la)
With long phony nails and a hairdo that rinses (wee-ohh)..etc

[David in Gwent]

The Druze were always the most interesting group to me.

They've been there, & in other countries in the area forever, & the Jews don't fuck with them at all. They serve in the IDF, & manage their own villages, & the Arabs don't fuck with them either, because if you do that, you just disappear. They don't get treated nearly as well on Jordan, or Syria, or Lebanon.

They made their peace with the Jews, & kept their traditions & never left their land. The muslims had shit leaders, & ran away in the face of jewish terrorism, & they've never been able to reclaim their land as a result.

Don''t you mean "freedom fighting"

The Irgun got a tutorial on fighting the English from Robert Briscoe, who knew, & ran guns for Michael Collins, & Hamas have been using the tactics of the Provos when they decided to start putting bombs in Birminham, because it was obvious they didn't care enough about bombs in Belfast.

Terrorism exists, because politics & diplomacy fails !

If Westminster had actually followed thru on Home Rule, & faced down the Unionists, the IRA would have remained a fringe organization !

If the Unionists & Westminster had responded to the Civil rights movement; the Provos would never have existed !

If people lose all faith that they can get their basic human rights thru peaceful means, can anyone be surprised when they are happy to lose them thru violence ?

Yep, and those same human rights also belong to the Jews.

[David in Gwent]

Actually, Foodie, I disagree with your premise.

Terrorism also exists because of extreme beliefs in all kinds of subjects and NOT just because political policy and diplomacy fails.

[David in Gwent]

Don''t you mean "freedom fighting"

The Irgun got a tutorial on fighting the English from Robert Briscoe, who knew, & ran guns for Michael Collins, & Hamas have been using the tactics of the Provos when they decided to start putting bombs in Birminham, because it was obvious they didn't care enough about bombs in Belfast.

Terrorism exists, because politics & diplomacy fails !

If Westminster had actually followed thru on Home Rule, & faced down the Unionists, the IRA would have remained a fringe organization !

If the Unionists & Westminster had responded to the Civil rights movement; the Provos would never have existed !

If people lose all faith that they can get their basic human rights thru peaceful means, can anyone be surprised when they are happy to lose them thru violence ?

I am not aware of any stated compromise by Hamas though am open to correction

The Original Hamas charter is always worth a read, it's hard to get hold of an online copy these days, due to it's content but there is still some info kicking about. It's quite the document.

https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/Data/ ... _032_2.pdf

Hamas have always refused any other outcome other than the destruction of Israel.

[Paddington Bear]

The Druze were always the most interesting group to me.

They've been there, & in other countries in the area forever, & the Jews don't fuck with them at all. They serve in the IDF, & manage their own villages, & the Arabs don't fuck with them either, because if you do that, you just disappear. They don't get treated nearly as well on Jordan, or Syria, or Lebanon.

They made their peace with the Jews, & kept their traditions & never left their land. The muslims had shit leaders, & ran away in the face of jewish terrorism, & they've never been able to reclaim their land as a result.

Don''t you mean "freedom fighting"

The Irgun got a tutorial on fighting the English from Robert Briscoe, who knew, & ran guns for Michael Collins, & Hamas have been using the tactics of the Provos when they decided to start putting bombs in Birminham, because it was obvious they didn't care enough about bombs in Belfast.

Terrorism exists, because politics & diplomacy fails !

If Westminster had actually followed thru on Home Rule, & faced down the Unionists, the IRA would have remained a fringe organization !

If the Unionists & Westminster had responded to the Civil rights movement; the Provos would never have existed !

If people lose all faith that they can get their basic human rights thru peaceful means, can anyone be surprised when they are happy to lose them thru violence ?

It took four pages but in the end fighting in the Middle East was always realistically going to be about Ireland.

I’m no great fan of the Israeli government but let’s be realistic - Hamas’ desired end state is the removal of all Jews from the Holy Land, la valise ou le cercueil. Again, plenty, plenty to criticise about Israel but they live under an existential threat and react accordingly, basic human nature. That’s the truth of ethnic conflicts, you can potentially freeze them but compromise doesn’t really come into the equation. And violence is basically inevitable.
Your point on the Home Rule debate is very arguable, but it was only the outbreak of WW1 that stopped large scale violence from the other side to the one you reference.

[fishfoodie]

Don''t you mean "freedom fighting"

The Irgun got a tutorial on fighting the English from Robert Briscoe, who knew, & ran guns for Michael Collins, & Hamas have been using the tactics of the Provos when they decided to start putting bombs in Birminham, because it was obvious they didn't care enough about bombs in Belfast.

Terrorism exists, because politics & diplomacy fails !

If Westminster had actually followed thru on Home Rule, & faced down the Unionists, the IRA would have remained a fringe organization !

If the Unionists & Westminster had responded to the Civil rights movement; the Provos would never have existed !

If people lose all faith that they can get their basic human rights thru peaceful means, can anyone be surprised when they are happy to lose them thru violence ?

It took four pages but in the end fighting in the Middle East was always realistically going to be about Ireland.

I’m no great fan of the Israeli government but let’s be realistic - Hamas’ desired end state is the removal of all Jews from the Holy Land, la valise ou le cercueil. Again, plenty, plenty to criticise about Israel but they live under an existential threat and react accordingly, basic human nature. That’s the truth of ethnic conflicts, you can potentially freeze them but compromise doesn’t really come into the equation. And violence is basically inevitable.
Your point on the Home Rule debate is very arguable, but it was only the outbreak of WW1 that stopped large scale violence from the other side to the one you reference.

I'm not trying to make it about Ireland, but it's a conflict I know about, & it's rare thing in that if you're a terrorist/freedom fighter, its a model you want to follow, because it's a winning formula (that & we have centuries of experience of being pains in the arse to the English). The links between Irish & other groups are a matter of record, & continue to this day with SF speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

I'm not, in any way absolving, or justifying any of these terrorists from abominal acts, but instead pointing to how absurd it is that people are asking; "How could this happen ?", when the question for anyone not in cloud cuckoo land was, "When will it happen ?"

I agree; the Israelis are just doing what I'd expect, but the Arabs are also doing exactly what I'd expect.

For what it's worth, I've friends in every part of Israeli Society; Jewish, Arab-Muslim, Arab-Christian, Druze, & none of the above.

The tragedy of the Israel/Palestine is that there is no solution that doesn't involve the complete elimination of the one of the sides, & this is why Israel has nukes, & why now Iran is getting their nukes, but in the meanwhile is happily running a proxy war thru Hamas, & Hezbollah. The only security is thru MAD, & that's no security at all.