NPR

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:01 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:56 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:12 am England pack 2019 final
8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Sam Underhill 6 Tom Curry 5 Courtney Lawes 4 Maro Itoje 3 Kyle Sinckler 2 Jamie George 1 Mako Vunipola

England pack vs Fiji
8 Ben Earl, 7 Tom Curry, 6 Courtney Lawes, 5 Ollie Chessum, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Jamie George, 1 Ellis Genge

Dan Cole played like 75 minutes of the final or something

This time round, it'll be George to go down in the first 3 minutes.

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:16 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:06 am OK , the point is that Englands pack is more then capable of produce the same performance as against the All Blacks in 2019. The Springbok scrum will test them. I know Itoje is a very good lineout jumper and the best performer against the All Blacks. He will test our pack no doubt. I rate him very high, level with Eben.

Except not a single one of them is close to their 2019 form, not that ABs game form, just their form in general.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:19 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:16 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:06 am OK , the point is that Englands pack is more then capable of produce the same performance as against the All Blacks in 2019. The Springbok scrum will test them. I know Itoje is a very good lineout jumper and the best performer against the All Blacks. He will test our pack no doubt. I rate him very high, level with Eben.

Except not a single one of them is close to their 2019 form, not that ABs game form, just their form in general.

Form is temporary, class is permanent.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:30 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:19 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:16 am

Except not a single one of them is close to their 2019 form, not that ABs game form, just their form in general.

Form is temporary, class is permanent.

I hate this asinine phrase. It means that you can expect class players to recover from periods of bad form, but it doesn't mean you should keep selecting them while they're in bad form.

Most of our pack who've looked shadows of their former selves have done so for long enough that expecting them to suddenly hit their stride again next week is delusional.

Lawes is about the only survivor from 2019 who could be said to be in comparable form.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:38 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:30 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:19 am

Form is temporary, class is permanent.

I hate this asinine phrase. It means that you can expect class players to recover from periods of bad form, but it doesn't mean you should keep selecting them while they're in bad form.

Most of our pack who've looked shadows of their former selves have done so for long enough that expecting them to suddenly hit their stride again next week is delusional.

Lawes is about the only survivor from 2019 who could be said to be in comparable form.

Form change from game to game. Ramos, Ringrose and Libbok as example.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:23 am God this is tedious already

Sards wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:47 am

handyman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:44 am

Sards wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:43 am Springboks will field the B team for England and keep the A team for the ABs

Which team are you supporting these days?

I thought I was getting old....what vokken medication are you on.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:05 am To try and engage with it - England are obvious underdogs. Our pack has a lot of players in it who have in the past been right up there with the best in the world. They last dominated a world class side in 2022(?) the home game down to 14 vs Ireland. So yes, theoretically it could happen again but there’s no body of evidence suggesting it will, particularly against a side of SA’s calibre.

*if* we do pull it off, it’s far more likely to be a case of a back row, and Earl and Lawes in particular starting to fire on all cylinders, Faz kicking at 100%, Daly lobbing one over from long range and probably a bit of the old magic from Manu.

I differ from a lot of English posters - I don’t think it’s impossible at all, but let’s not pretend that this outcome is any more likely than us losing by 20-30 points

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:30 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:05 am To try and engage with it - England are obvious underdogs. Our pack has a lot of players in it who have in the past been right up there with the best in the world. They last dominated a world class side in 2022(?) the home game down to 14 vs Ireland. So yes, theoretically it could happen again but there’s no body of evidence suggesting it will, particularly against a side of SA’s calibre.

*if* we do pull it off, it’s far more likely to be a case of a back row, and Earl and Lawes in particular starting to fire on all cylinders, Faz kicking at 100%, Daly lobbing one over from long range and probably a bit of the old magic from Manu.

I differ from a lot of English posters - I don’t think it’s impossible at all, but let’s not pretend that this outcome is any more likely than us losing by 20-30 points

Don't forget the Boks always have a game-in-hand each season where we shit the bed and everything goes wrong. That hasn't happened yet in the last 3 months......

If England play really well and the Boks have that off-day, it could be a shock result.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:30 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:05 am To try and engage with it - England are obvious underdogs. Our pack has a lot of players in it who have in the past been right up there with the best in the world. They last dominated a world class side in 2022(?) the home game down to 14 vs Ireland. So yes, theoretically it could happen again but there’s no body of evidence suggesting it will, particularly against a side of SA’s calibre.

*if* we do pull it off, it’s far more likely to be a case of a back row, and Earl and Lawes in particular starting to fire on all cylinders, Faz kicking at 100%, Daly lobbing one over from long range and probably a bit of the old magic from Manu.

I differ from a lot of English posters - I don’t think it’s impossible at all, but let’s not pretend that this outcome is any more likely than us losing by 20-30 points

Don't forget the Boks always have a game-in-hand each season where we shit the bed and everything goes wrong. That hasn't happened yet in the last 3 months......

If England play really well and the Boks have that off-day, it could be a shock result.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:51 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:30 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:05 am To try and engage with it - England are obvious underdogs. Our pack has a lot of players in it who have in the past been right up there with the best in the world. They last dominated a world class side in 2022(?) the home game down to 14 vs Ireland. So yes, theoretically it could happen again but there’s no body of evidence suggesting it will, particularly against a side of SA’s calibre.

*if* we do pull it off, it’s far more likely to be a case of a back row, and Earl and Lawes in particular starting to fire on all cylinders, Faz kicking at 100%, Daly lobbing one over from long range and probably a bit of the old magic from Manu.

I differ from a lot of English posters - I don’t think it’s impossible at all, but let’s not pretend that this outcome is any more likely than us losing by 20-30 points

Don't forget the Boks always have a game-in-hand each season where we shit the bed and everything goes wrong. That hasn't happened yet in the last 3 months......

If England play really well and the Boks have that off-day, it could be a shock result.

Sure, and you guys played a game that was essentially a final this week and we didn’t - this has both a physical and emotional impact to it.

There’s a red card left in this tournament as well…

I’m just going to enjoy it. If we lose so be it, a semi is potentially more than we deserve, if we win amazing, that’s what tournament rugby does. No expectations beyond them leaving everything out on the pitch, no nerves and no worries if it isn’t enough

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:58 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:23 am God this is tedious already

Quite

handyman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:15 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:51 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:30 am

Don't forget the Boks always have a game-in-hand each season where we shit the bed and everything goes wrong. That hasn't happened yet in the last 3 months......

If England play really well and the Boks have that off-day, it could be a shock result.

Sure, and you guys played a game that was essentially a final this week and we didn’t - this has both a physical and emotional impact to it.

There’s a red card left in this tournament as well…

I’m just going to enjoy it. If we lose so be it, a semi is potentially more than we deserve, if we win amazing, that’s what tournament rugby does. No expectations beyond them leaving everything out on the pitch, no nerves and no worries if it isn’t enough

We might have played our final against France and England could play theirs this weekend. Which makes England the favorites.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:42 am Ben O'Keeffe in the middle for the England v South Africa encounter

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:42 am Ben O'Keeffe in the middle for the England v South Africa encounter

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:42 am Ben O'Keeffe in the middle for the England v South Africa encounter

petej wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:24 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:42 am Ben O'Keeffe in the middle for the England v South Africa encounter

Feeling pretty happy with my prediction of boks by 45 points. O'Keefe was weak with the boks last week so this is going to be a cake walk for them.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:58 pm

petej wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:24 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:42 am Ben O'Keeffe in the middle for the England v South Africa encounter

Feeling pretty happy with my prediction of boks by 45 points. O'Keefe was weak with the boks last week so this is going to be a cake walk for them.

I disagree. He'll know about his mistakes and how France lost out, so will do whatever he can to NOT show the Boks favour this weekend.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:58 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:23 am God this is tedious already

Quite

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:19 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:16 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:06 am OK , the point is that Englands pack is more then capable of produce the same performance as against the All Blacks in 2019. The Springbok scrum will test them. I know Itoje is a very good lineout jumper and the best performer against the All Blacks. He will test our pack no doubt. I rate him very high, level with Eben.

Except not a single one of them is close to their 2019 form, not that ABs game form, just their form in general.

Form is temporary, class is permanent.

They are unbeaten (at the RWC), they’ve stuck to their guns since Borthwick was appointed, and they are a team that believe in what they are doing,” said Erasmus.

“They will still be hurting from last year and the 2019 World Cup final, so they’ll be desperate. It always hurts when you lose in a Rugby World Cup, and I guess England would feel like that, and they’d want to get one back on us. They are playing for their country, and they’ll want to make their people proud.

“So yes, I believe they’ll have beef with us after last year and the last World Cup final. They will be very physical and step up in the set phases, and you never know what their players will dish up, especially (Owen) Farrell and their new scrumhalf (Alex Mitchell), who really lights things up. So, they have threats all over the park.”

Erasmus also had no doubt they would have special plans going into this match – just as the Bok coaches will be working hard on ways to get an edge over the opposition.

Kurt-Lee Arendse scores the last time the Boks faced England, in November 2022.
Kurt-Lee Arendse scores the last time the Boks faced England, in November 2022.

“We are as worried about the plans the England coach and Owen Farrell are making,” said Erasmus. “They won a Test with 14 men with a lot of drop goals and that aspect of their game could come up again this week.”

Springbok coach Jacques Nienaber will announce his matchday squad for the clash on Thursday morning at 09h00 (SA time), and Erasmus said the coaches were still considering a few options.

“There is a temptation to bring Lukhanyo (Am) in this week and start Handre (Pollard) and Faf (de Klerk), as well as Canan (Moodie), and we are also thinking of a six-two split on the bench,” said Erasmus.

“Every player in our squad is fit so we have all 33 players to select from. We would also like to see what they do. If they go for a six-two split, then we’ll have to make some plans.

“We can also bring in a guy like Jean Kleyn who will bring some physicality against their tall lineout options. That’s probably the reason we are only announcing our team two days before the match.”

Erasmus insisted, however, that it was important to remain focused and to block out all the white noise ahead of what is expected to be an intense match-up: “There are three realities – what England believes, what the world says and what we believe. England have stuck to what has been working for them and they have not had many injuries. We’ll stay in our reality and focus on how we train. We know it will be as tough as it gets.”

Erasmus did, however, rule out a split of seven forwards and only one back on the bench: “It will be tough to have a seven-one split with Handre and Manie (Libbok) available, so a seven-one split is out of the question.”

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:51 pm The Boks are actually keeping their cards close to their chest for once - over team announcement.

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:09 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:51 pm The Boks are actually keeping their cards close to their chest for once - over team announcement.

Another genius Rassie mind trick, no doubt

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:51 pm The Boks are actually keeping their cards close to their chest for once - over team announcement.

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:13 pm Tbf I really did like that call for the scrum, though.

[Ellis] Genge, [Jamie] George, [Kyle] Sinckler, [Maro] Itoje, [Ollie] Chessum, [Courtney] Lawes, [Tom] Curry, [Ben] Earl, [Alex] Mitchell, [Owen] Farrell, [Elliot] Daly, [Manu] Tuilagi, [Joe] Marchant, [Jonny] May, Marcus Smith or [Freddie] Steward

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:04 am Englands team per Rassie

[Ellis] Genge, [Jamie] George, [Kyle] Sinckler, [Maro] Itoje, [Ollie] Chessum, [Courtney] Lawes, [Tom] Curry, [Ben] Earl, [Alex] Mitchell, [Owen] Farrell, [Elliot] Daly, [Manu] Tuilagi, [Joe] Marchant, [Jonny] May, Marcus Smith or [Freddie] Steward

Gumboot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:26 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:04 am Englands team per Rassie

[Ellis] Genge, [Jamie] George, [Kyle] Sinckler, [Maro] Itoje, [Ollie] Chessum, [Courtney] Lawes, [Tom] Curry, [Ben] Earl, [Alex] Mitchell, [Owen] Farrell, [Elliot] Daly, [Manu] Tuilagi, [Joe] Marchant, [Jonny] May, Marcus Smith or [Freddie] Steward

Rassie displaying the punditry genius of... pretty much everyone else on the planet.

Gumboot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:32 am Joel Stransky's gone one better, proclaiming England certain losers regardless of who they select.

Gumboot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:32 am Joel Stransky's gone one better, proclaiming England certain losers regardless of who they select.

petej wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:51 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:32 am Joel Stransky's gone one better, proclaiming England certain losers regardless of who they select.

He is correct.

ASMO wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:00 am

petej wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:51 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:32 am Joel Stransky's gone one better, proclaiming England certain losers regardless of who they select.

He is correct.

There is not one rational England supporter who thinks England will win this game, most i would argue think they will lose it by loads.