NPR

Loving that team - and the bench is perfect.

Gumboot wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:36 pm Happy with that side.

Perofeta starting is a bit of a surprise. So is no Blackadder. And no Clarke.

Clarke is still injured I believe. For the rest of it I think we're seeing a bit of conservative common sense for the scrappy first game of the season. Start Perofeta and you've always the old hand of BB to fall back on for later impact. Same with the midfield. Reiko's the established player and nobody's actually knocked him out of his spot yet, putting their hand up to demand selection. TJ's an old hand to help steady the ship etc.

Flockwitt wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 5:12 am

Gumboot wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:36 pm Happy with that side.

Perofeta starting is a bit of a surprise. So is no Blackadder. And no Clarke.

Clarke is still injured I believe. For the rest of it I think we're seeing a bit of conservative common sense for the scrappy first game of the season. Start Perofeta and you've always the old hand of BB to fall back on for later impact. Same with the midfield. Reiko's the established player and nobody's actually knocked him out of his spot yet, putting their hand up to demand selection. TJ's an old hand to help steady the ship etc.

Absolutely, maybe I should've said 'a pleasant surprise'.

Really excited about this team - Razor's enthusiasm is infectious. Great to see they've gone with experience, and happy to wait till San Diego for all the noobies to be unleashed. Would be fun to see a mammoth front row featuring Williams and Tosi at some stage.

Entertaining as always and really informative without giving anything away

Slightly off topic but part of the overall conversation...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350331521 ... re-ongoing

Richie Mo’unga says his days in the All Blacks jersey are far from finished and he is weighing up an early return to New Zealand from his three-year contract in Japan.

Mo’unga, 30, will be in Dunedin this weekend to carry out some promotional work on board a specially branded “Richies Bus” ferrying fans from a sports bar in Dunedin to Forsyth Barr Stadium.

He will watch Saturday’s test against England as a fan, but Mo’unga told Stuff on Thursday that the start of the All Blacks’ season had also stirred his desire to put on the black jersey again.

“I signed for three years with Toshiba and my intentions were, ‘Yep, I'm going do the three years’,” Mo’unga said.

“[But] obviously with ‘Razor’ [All Blacks coach Scott Robertson] coming along and saying he'd love to have me back home, it's just given me another opportunity to think about where I'm at with my footy.

“I obviously had a really successful year in my first year and I’m trying to weigh up the options of what would be best for my family, but also what would be best for my footy as well.

“So, those conversations are still happening and to be honest there'll be no rush before we all come to a decision.”

Be nice if it happened, the more the merrier. Can't imagine Mo'unga being remotely interested in making an early return if Fozzie was still in charge.

Gumboot wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 6:55 am Be nice if it happened, the more the merrier. Can't imagine Mo'unga being remotely interested in making an early return if Fozzie was still in charge.

Even if Razor did get Mo back and BB were in the XV, I doubt BB would be given the free license to park himself near Mo at 10 he had under Fozzie.

Kiwias wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:10 am

Gumboot wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 6:55 am Be nice if it happened, the more the merrier. Can't imagine Mo'unga being remotely interested in making an early return if Fozzie was still in charge.

Even if Razor did get Mo back and BB were in the XV, I doubt BB would be given the free license to park himself near Mo at 10 he had under Fozzie.

Actually I think that had fixed itself by the time RWC had rolled around, one of the reasons the team actually did pretty well I'd say. But BB had put his hand up and said he'd been crowding Richie when they started that two play makers system - I think the coaches did actually see what everybody else had and got the message home.

The Hillary Shield's now safely locked away, and it's onward to San Diego and what is sure to be a very willing Fijian team.

Tuipulotu has stayed in NZ and been replaced on the trip by Sam Darry. Sure to be a few changes, but I really hope they start Ratima and keep DMac at 10.

Flockwitt wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:15 am Actually I think that had fixed itself by the time RWC had rolled around, one of the reasons the team actually did pretty well I'd say. But BB had put his hand up and said he'd been crowding Richie when they started that two play makers system - I think the coaches did actually see what everybody else had and got the message home.

It only took the coaches three years to work out what we could all see clearly.

Gumboot wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:29 am The Hillary Shield's now safely locked away, and it's onward to San Diego and what is sure to be a very willing Fijian team.

Tuipulotu has stayed in NZ and been replaced on the trip by Sam Darry. Sure to be a few changes, but I really hope they start Ratima and keep DMac at 10.

Speed of delivery just demands attention and judging the backline players' performances without considering it is unfair and pointless...

but I'll be happy to see the end of both DMac at 10 and BB in the set up.

Guy Smiley wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:28 amSpeed of delivery just demands attention and judging the backline players' performances without considering it is unfair and pointless...

but I'll be happy to see the end of both DMac at 10 and BB in the set up.

Bit harsh on Beauden mate, he saved our skin on Saturday. Who would you have starting at 10 without both BB and DMac... Perofeta?

Gumboot wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2024 7:04 am

Guy Smiley wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:28 amSpeed of delivery just demands attention and judging the backline players' performances without considering it is unfair and pointless...

but I'll be happy to see the end of both DMac at 10 and BB in the set up.

Bit harsh on Beauden mate, he saved our skin on Saturday. Who would you have starting at 10 without both BB and DMac... Perofeta?

With a view to the 4 year cycle, I'd be looking hard to fill both spots and we're not short of candidates.

I think Razor has taken a low risk approach to the start of his tenure, opting for some stability and experience to keep the ship steady... but sooner or later he's going to have to cut away the bad tissue left over from the previous dynasty. I want 10s who play like 1st fives, setting their players up around them, not individuals whose instinct is to do something themselves and spend more time running sideways thinking about it that doing it.

Plummer? Havili?

Havili? Nah.

I'd put Plummer at 10 with Jordan at 15 (once fit again) and Perofeta on the bench, covering 10 and 15. Perofeta to stay at 15 and BB on the bench till Jordan returns.

Even as a Blues fan I wouldn't want Plummer in the All Blacks... he'd suit the Boks though... he's pretty limited.

Grandpa wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:16 pm Even as a Blues fan I wouldn't want Plummer in the All Blacks... he'd suit the Boks though... he's pretty limited.

I thought that about him too... until this last season.I wanted Perofeta at 10 because my emotional side wants him coming through. I like him as a player... and last year the Blues were sharper with him at 10 and Beauden out of the picture.

I think that's a recurring theme, by the way... other players perform better when BB is out of the way.

This year though, Plummer used his natural game to steer that Blues team with skill and style. He kicks when it's on, passes when there's room. He's not flashy but his timing is excellent. I would say those are the attributes you want in a test 10. He's also still only 25 yrs old... so here's a key idea,

get him into the AB set up where his qualities can be best developed and brought on by coaches with the resources and skill to do so. It seems he's been mismanaged a bit in the past, still young, thrown into all sorts of positions and scenarios and used as a gap filler... and it seems to me there's more to him as a player begging to be unlocked.


I think Dan Carter spoiled the NZ public. He's a once in a generation type of player with all of the skills and the mind for the game. He made breaks of his own and set up his outside players for theirs. I think since DC, and to an extent Carlos before him, there's an expectation that flashy, razzle dazzle play from the 10 is standard and desirable. Listen to our agricultural commentary team gargling away when BB makes a break that any fast back should be able to make. Watch them wax lyrical at his genius when he hacks a kick upfield that bounces end over end and takes a lucky jink into touch.

He and DMac do good things and they have incredible individual skills... but their team mates suffer for opportunity outside them as they try to do it all themselves. I prefer a player who can set things up.

Beauden Barrett should be too old for the next RWC or playing as a super sub at best. I think it's time to let go of sentiment and start looking for someone to take his spot (not his place) as they develop and gear up for that next tournament. We have candidates... Love and Morgan at the 'Canes both had good seasons, Plummer is a smoky.

Razor talks about evolving. Sooner or later that's going to mean cutting dead wood away.

Guy Smiley wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 9:12 pmListen to our agricultural commentary team gargling away when BB makes a break that any fast back should be able to make. Watch them wax lyrical at his genius when he hacks a kick upfield that bounces end over end and takes a lucky jink into touch.

He and DMac do good things and they have incredible individual skills... but their team mates suffer for opportunity outside them as they try to do it all themselves. I prefer a player who can set things up.

Like Beauden set up Tele'a for the match-winning try at Eden Park?

Razor talks about evolving. Sooner or later that's going to mean cutting dead wood away.

Beauden is "dead wood" now, is he? Should be replaced in the squad by Harry Plummer? C'mon man, you're having a Turkish.

Gumboot wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:38 pm

Guy Smiley wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 9:12 pmListen to our agricultural commentary team gargling away when BB makes a break that any fast back should be able to make. Watch them wax lyrical at his genius when he hacks a kick upfield that bounces end over end and takes a lucky jink into touch.

He and DMac do good things and they have incredible individual skills... but their team mates suffer for opportunity outside them as they try to do it all themselves. I prefer a player who can set things up.

Like Beauden set up Tele'a for the match-winning try at Eden Park?

Razor talks about evolving. Sooner or later that's going to mean cutting dead wood away.

Beauden is "dead wood" now, is he? Should be replaced in the squad by Harry Plummer? C'mon man, you're having a Turkish.

I would be happy to see Plummer in there as he is a Grant Fox type of first five -- nothing flash but he does the basics very well. My team would have Plummer at 10, Jordan at 15, and Perofeta on the bench covering both 10 and 15. BB still has flashes of brilliance but he is not the future of the ABs. I can't see with him or DMac in the ABs for RWC2027.

I'm more worried that Sam Cane is going to be used during the RC... what is the point of that? Would be like bringing McCaw back in 2016 for a few games... Sam Cane's place could go to someone who is going to be around for the next 4 years...

Grandpa wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 11:31 pm I'm more worried that Sam Cane is going to be used during the RC... what is the point of that? Would be like bringing McCaw back in 2016 for a few games... Sam Cane's place could go to someone who is going to be around for the next 4 years...

The big difference being McCaw retired in 2015 but Cane is still available for selection.

If Cane can still play like he did against Ireland last year, I'd still pick him ahead of Papali'i this year - especially against the likes of SA. I will be surprised if Papali'i is still our starting openside in 2027. He's good, but imho, he's not that good.

Gumboot wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 11:49 pm

Grandpa wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2024 11:31 pm I'm more worried that Sam Cane is going to be used during the RC... what is the point of that? Would be like bringing McCaw back in 2016 for a few games... Sam Cane's place could go to someone who is going to be around for the next 4 years...

The big difference being McCaw retired in 2015 but Cane is still available for selection.

If Cane can still play like he did against Ireland last year, I'd still pick him ahead of Papali'i this year - especially against the likes of SA. I will be surprised if Papali'i is still our starting openside in 2027. He's good, but imho, he's not that good.

But what's the point? It's such short term thinking... and a real black mark against Razor if he plays Sam in my opinion. Sort of nonsense pick I'd expect from Foster.. not Razor... In the past when players had signed overseas contracts for the following season, they weren't picked... you want players who are committed... plus Sam still tackles too high... And hasn't played since January.

He's not going to be fit. Ardie has also looked a shadow of himself this year because he hasn't been fit either after 2 months off. Another undercooked player Blackadder looked like a donkey against Fiji... not the Blackadder I remember from last year who was ripping it up before his injury... again another player who has hardly played this season... he needs some NPC games to get his sharpness back...

Razor.. pick players who are fit... and who are going to be around next season...

My point is we should be picking the best available players to win tests this year. The next RWC is still a long way off.

As for Blackadder, I think you may be mis-remembering. His 25 minutes against Uruguay last year was the only test rugby he played in either 2022 or 2023.

Gumboot wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 12:25 am My point is we should be picking the best available players to win tests this year. The next RWC is still a long way off.

As for Blackadder, I think you may be mis-remembering. His 25 minutes against Uruguay last year was the only test rugby he played in either 2022 or 2023.

I meant Blackadder in Super Rugby before the injury... he was playing the best I had ever seen him play...

On your first point.. it's my opinion it's short term thinking and I'll be very disappointed in Razor if he takes that route... I wouldn't make an exception for Carter, McCaw or Michael Jones... plus Cane hasn't played since January... so will not even be close to peak Cane... so you think we pick a half fit Cane in the RC? It's not like we have a World Cup in November we need Cane fit for...

I'm happy to let Razor decide if Cane's fit enough. If he goes for Papali'i or Blackadder instead, fine.

As for 2027, I don't think any of those guys will be our regular 7 by then anyway.

Gumboot wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2024 1:09 am I'm happy to let Razor decide if Cane's fit enough. If he goes for Papali'i or Blackadder instead, fine.

As for 2027, I don't think any of those guys will be our regular 7 by then anyway.

X100. I sick of everything supposedly being about some tournament 4 years down the track. As you say chance of Papali'i or Blckadder still being our 7 is not assured by any means.

The 36-man Rugby Championship squad will be named at 3pm.

Scooter had surgery on a finger after the Fiji test and will miss the first couple of rounds, at least. Ardie is likely to be the captain in the meantime.

Gumboot wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2024 10:03 pm The 36-man Rugby Championship squad will be named at 3pm.

Scooter had surgery on a finger after the Fiji test and will miss the first couple of rounds, at least. Ardie is likely to be the captain in the meantime.

Just shaken off my second bout of Covid. I'm ready to step up if the call comes.

I let it slide past at the time but the Ardie thing...

I'd have been happy for him to be named captain.

I'd have been happier still if he was our 7. I know this argument's been had before... but it's his best spot. It's like Rieko at 13, Leon McDonald at 13, Christian Cullen... there's others.

That last team they named, for Fiji. I would have swapped all three backrowers around. I don't think Blackadder's a 7, he's been played there at the 'Saders a few times as cover I think and the idea seems to have migrated over to the AB set up. He plays 6 best. Jacobson has played at 8 a lot... my memory might be tricking me here but I have the idea he's played at 8 as much as he has at 6. For tests he's maybe a bit light for it...

anyway, I thought they were all being played away from their best spot and that's something we do too much of in NZ, in the quest to jam all the good players onto the park regardless sort of thing.

Finlay Christie gooone! No surprise, really.

Havili... meh.

Josh Lord's been added as injury cover for Barrett.

Great to see Cane and Jordan back, and Ruben Love officially joining the squad.

Gumboot wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 3:25 am Finlay Christie gooone! No surprise, really.

Havili... meh.

Josh Lord's been added as injury cover for Barrett.

Great to see Cane and Jordan back, and Ruben Love officially joining the squad.

Pretty ell agree mate. I pretty happy with it all really.

I like that side. Razor obviously knows Havili and the gameplan he wants so OK.

Sam Cane - seems silly if he is leaving but maybe for some injury and captaincy cover. Still don't like Ardie as a potential skipper.

Disappointed that Narawa's been cut, but hopefully he'll be back sooner rather than later. And hopefully Taukei'aho won't be out for much longer.

I'm over Havili. He's had loads of chances with decidedly mixed results, but his utility value seems to outweigh his obvious deficiencies.

Minor quibbles aside, it's a very handy squad. Can't wait for the RC.

Gumboot wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 5:21 am Disappointed that Narawa's been cut, but hopefully he'll be back sooner rather than later. And hopefully Taukei'aho won't be out for much longer.

I'm over Havili. He's had loads of chances with decidedly mixed results, but his utility value seems to outweigh his obvious deficiencies.

Minor quibbles aside, it's a very handy squad. Can't wait for the RC.

I'm disappointed for Narawa as well. I like him... Havili.. not sure when he would ever get a game? Maybe as a bench option if ALB starts?

Grandpa wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 1:19 pm

Gumboot wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 5:21 am Disappointed that Narawa's been cut, but hopefully he'll be back sooner rather than later. And hopefully Taukei'aho won't be out for much longer.

I'm over Havili. He's had loads of chances with decidedly mixed results, but his utility value seems to outweigh his obvious deficiencies.

Minor quibbles aside, it's a very handy squad. Can't wait for the RC.

I'm disappointed for Narawa as well. I like him... Havili.. not sure when he would ever get a game? Maybe as a bench option if ALB starts?

That is my view on Havili being picked. ALB is in great form and I would have him over Havili any day

Kiwias wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 12:11 am

Grandpa wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 1:19 pm

Gumboot wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 5:21 am Disappointed that Narawa's been cut, but hopefully he'll be back sooner rather than later. And hopefully Taukei'aho won't be out for much longer.

I'm over Havili. He's had loads of chances with decidedly mixed results, but his utility value seems to outweigh his obvious deficiencies.

Minor quibbles aside, it's a very handy squad. Can't wait for the RC.

I'm disappointed for Narawa as well. I like him... Havili.. not sure when he would ever get a game? Maybe as a bench option if ALB starts?

That is my view on Havili being picked. ALB is in great form and I would have him over Havili any day

I'll throw out a guess and suggest it's kicking ability they want as an option. Most teams want that second tactical kicker somewhere in the backline... you look at Love and Perofeta as two 15s who can play 10. Jordan has a boot but he's rarely used as a 2nd kicker because he gets shoehorned in as a winger. Those are your outside backline kickers. Then you've got Jordie in the centres... and Havili, who can play 15. Razor requested the 'Saders try him at 10 this year... obviously trying to evaluate his dexterity to cover.

Personally, I'm more worried about how the backline is set up and distributed from 10. With a couple of young 9s coming through who have shown speed of delivery and the ability to read and mix up a game, how will our first fives steer the attack. Coupled with that... do we see either Perofeta or Love getting the chance to move in and out from 15 to 10.

Done good, TJ... best of luck to him

Guy Smiley wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2024 5:13 am Done good, TJ... best of luck to him

Yep, he's had a fine career, and always wore his heart on his sleeve - such a passionate player.

Hugely to his credit that he came back so strongly for the Canes this year, especially after they'd just lost Roigard. I reckon Smith, Kerr-Barlow and TJ at the 2015 RWC, at the peak of their powers, was the best trio of halfbacks we've ever had.

Interesting article in Stuff today, an excerpt from Sam Whitelock's book that has him talking about coaches and the game that saved Fozzie's job, in SA. Well worth a read.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350361877 ... osters-job

It’s no great secret that our win over South Africa at Johannesburg in August 2022 saved Foster’s job. We were coming off five losses in six Tests, including that unprecedented home-series loss to Ireland. Long story short, there was a group of players that went to New Zealand Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson’s room following the Test to lobby strongly for Fozzie to remain in the role. As part of the leadership group I was among them, but I can honestly say I was blindsided by the idea. Others in the group were really keen on going, while some members of the squad didn’t even have a clue it was happening.

Was it the right thing to do? Good question. It’s a sticking point for me because, as I’ve said, it is not our job as players to back or sack the coach. If you flip that scenario on its head and we had a group of players approaching the CEO to have a popular coach sacked, how do you think that would be received by the public? What we had was a group of emotional people, in an emotional situation, influencing decisions that should not be based on emotion.