Angry White Men

[Hugo]

Quite a significant nub lurking in this one, to effect those parties (however dishonest, venal and self serving) freely discuss matters that the more mainstream ones won't touch.

And your point will always resonate far better in a simmering febrile vacuum than one where the conversation's out in the open air, debated in detail and mostly understood.

I used work for an elderly couple who'd moved down from Cork to run our local pub/hotel. Pleasant/harmless enough, if a touch myopic at times. Plenty in the community thought they were idiots. But the wife of the two said to me once on the subject that her daughter, a single mother with a young child struggling for years to secure council housing was finding all those newly available being allocated straight to refugees (this was around 1997 btw) and she didn't think that was right or fair to our own citizens. 'And if that makes me racist' she turns to me 'Then feck it, I suppose I'm racist'.

I'm not going to pick that apart any further except to say even then there were many thousands like her, in a very prosperous boom time of the Celtic Tiger economy mkI and everything supposedly rosy for life at large. Now how that's progressed through further immigration, integration, the fabric of society shifting, multiple financial crises, pandemic etc is anyone's guess. The pub for instance long since changed hands and after the latest owners took over they tried to run it in a depressed trading environment for a year or two before jumping at a several hundred thousand euro contract to house 40-50 Ukranian refugees in a small isolated community of 100 people. (said community has thankfully embraced them and imagine many of them will stay and raise families in the area).

But that conversation, that feeling of being marginalised by your own politicians in favour of that great, mysterious Other, who talks funny (or doesn't talk at all and mostly just stares silently at you), who keep to themselves, you'll never see them except at the supermarket or outside the jobcentre, oh there was that homeless one who was always half drunk and set fire to the local restaurant after being refused service that night etc. Are they integrating or are they just setting up their own community inside ours. And taking our jobs (while simultaneously sponging off the state at the same time) you can't get a house anymore, the community's changed, it never used to be like this, government does nothing. And so on.

Whether you agree or not there's endless material out there for people predisposed to think their way of life is under threat and things are going to shit. And in the UK for instance where there's already mass inequality between regions, public services falling to pieces, low wage growth, poor quality/quantity of jobs, housing...just don't go there. I'm frankly surprised it hasn't happened sooner. And perhaps it did. Things were tricky ten years back and we got Brexit and Trump. And since that magic bean panacea left us all even fkin worse off maybe it's just time to smash shit. Setting aside people who just want it anyway.

Life is change. Perhaps the pace/direction of travel has alienated some; feeling threatened, ignored and worried about the future - or the now. And others perhaps just don't like brown people. No ones really bothered to find out in any detail.

And more importantly, anyone ever really tried to explain that direction of travel: population, tax base, demographics, birth rates? Never mind the level of local infrastructure, support, help with integration etc. that's needed. Or have they just pointedly ignored the rather big political landmine and hope to also ignore those wanting answers.

Maybe they'll hate the answers even more than the easy ones they're opting for. Ones more global that have nothing to do with immigration, or 'woke'. But the so called minority is growing, and growing louder as times get harder. Dismissing them all as racist is not going to make them simply go away back to their own country.

Interesting post. Agree with what you are saying about disenfranchised communities feeling marginalised by politicians.

One of the things I have noticed over the past decade (stretching to the BLM movement and back to Brexit and the 2016 US Presidential election) is that people who are well educated and who lead relatively prosperous lives don't tend to have their finger on the pulse.

News media tend to be centered far away from the stuff going on in the provinces (be it to the American Mid West or the north of England or wherever) and so this stuff catches them unawares. Therefore, you get overly simplified analysis like Hillary lost the election due to misogyny and no real stab at getting to grips with some of the deeper underlying issues.

That’s a good point, but I do wonder if it’s not having their finger in the pulse or it’s just that social media drives a lot of the mainstream media narrative and that in turn is driven by a relatively small number of people.

It's definitely hard to come to grips with. We live in information rich times but I think more than ever people only want info that tends to reinforce (rather than challenge) their worldview.

[robmatic]

We’ve hardly mentioned class and regionalism here as specific things.

The UK will vote for a complete fucking shyster because he went to Eton and Oxbridge and has a posh voice.

A competent man with a broad Birmingham accent would never be elected Prime Minister.

This is a significant part of the disenfranchisement, that there are no ‘people like me’ in parliament or positions of leadership. Those who do come from that background have their accents knocked off them.

A functional Union movement used to be one of the things that that gave people that representation.

This is true on a smaller scale as well in British corporate culture, which generally rewards bluffers with posh accents.

[epwc]

This is probably indicative.

Of what

You have significant wealth and don't understand why people with less privilege might be angry.

I have significant wealth and interact on a daily basis with lots of people that I would classify as working class, whether through my businesses, the farm, the mosque (strongly working class congregation ) or indeed family.

From my time here so far it must be clear that I do want to try and understand things.

I’ve spent the morning in the warehouse at work shuffling stock around with 2 white working class lads, both could easily be in the angry white man category; poor education, single parent homes, not much spare income growing up

I think they’re both 22, lovely lads who I talk to about these issues, which they don’t see in the same way as a lot of their mates.

I’ve known one since he was 5, the others his best mate so he knows me quite well too.

I would suggest that perhaps meaningful interaction with the ‘other’ might have made them realise that:

1. We (the others) are ok really
2. You have to graft fucking hard to get somewhere unless you’re born to wealth

We mix socially more with people that align with us in our values than wealth or social status.

I think we’re quite grounded and still connected enough to our origins to understand that it’s not all rosy for those with less income.

And when I say we choose to live here it’s because there is a lot of opportunity available regardless of your background or wealth, yeah wealth makes it easier but if you’re prepared to work then you can improve your circumstances.

In terms of social justice of course things could be better but they’re still a lot better here than in other places

[tabascoboy]

Nothing like getting lagered up before a good protest ( Manchester, where two counter-protests also happening as well as a Trans Pride march! )

[Random1]

Quite a significant nub lurking in this one, to effect those parties (however dishonest, venal and self serving) freely discuss matters that the more mainstream ones won't touch.

And your point will always resonate far better in a simmering febrile vacuum than one where the conversation's out in the open air, debated in detail and mostly understood.

I used work for an elderly couple who'd moved down from Cork to run our local pub/hotel. Pleasant/harmless enough, if a touch myopic at times. Plenty in the community thought they were idiots. But the wife of the two said to me once on the subject that her daughter, a single mother with a young child struggling for years to secure council housing was finding all those newly available being allocated straight to refugees (this was around 1997 btw) and she didn't think that was right or fair to our own citizens. 'And if that makes me racist' she turns to me 'Then feck it, I suppose I'm racist'.

I'm not going to pick that apart any further except to say even then there were many thousands like her, in a very prosperous boom time of the Celtic Tiger economy mkI and everything supposedly rosy for life at large. Now how that's progressed through further immigration, integration, the fabric of society shifting, multiple financial crises, pandemic etc is anyone's guess. The pub for instance long since changed hands and after the latest owners took over they tried to run it in a depressed trading environment for a year or two before jumping at a several hundred thousand euro contract to house 40-50 Ukranian refugees in a small isolated community of 100 people. (said community has thankfully embraced them and imagine many of them will stay and raise families in the area).

But that conversation, that feeling of being marginalised by your own politicians in favour of that great, mysterious Other, who talks funny (or doesn't talk at all and mostly just stares silently at you), who keep to themselves, you'll never see them except at the supermarket or outside the jobcentre, oh there was that homeless one who was always half drunk and set fire to the local restaurant after being refused service that night etc. Are they integrating or are they just setting up their own community inside ours. And taking our jobs (while simultaneously sponging off the state at the same time) you can't get a house anymore, the community's changed, it never used to be like this, government does nothing. And so on.

Whether you agree or not there's endless material out there for people predisposed to think their way of life is under threat and things are going to shit. And in the UK for instance where there's already mass inequality between regions, public services falling to pieces, low wage growth, poor quality/quantity of jobs, housing...just don't go there. I'm frankly surprised it hasn't happened sooner. And perhaps it did. Things were tricky ten years back and we got Brexit and Trump. And since that magic bean panacea left us all even fkin worse off maybe it's just time to smash shit. Setting aside people who just want it anyway.

Life is change. Perhaps the pace/direction of travel has alienated some; feeling threatened, ignored and worried about the future - or the now. And others perhaps just don't like brown people. No ones really bothered to find out in any detail.

And more importantly, anyone ever really tried to explain that direction of travel: population, tax base, demographics, birth rates? Never mind the level of local infrastructure, support, help with integration etc. that's needed. Or have they just pointedly ignored the rather big political landmine and hope to also ignore those wanting answers.

Maybe they'll hate the answers even more than the easy ones they're opting for. Ones more global that have nothing to do with immigration, or 'woke'. But the so called minority is growing, and growing louder as times get harder. Dismissing them all as racist is not going to make them simply go away back to their own country.

Interesting post. Agree with what you are saying about disenfranchised communities feeling marginalised by politicians.

One of the things I have noticed over the past decade (stretching to the BLM movement and back to Brexit and the 2016 US Presidential election) is that people who are well educated and who lead relatively prosperous lives don't tend to have their finger on the pulse.

News media tend to be centered far away from the stuff going on in the provinces (be it to the American Mid West or the north of England or wherever) and so this stuff catches them unawares. Therefore, you get overly simplified analysis like Hillary lost the election due to misogyny and no real stab at getting to grips with some of the deeper underlying issues.

That’s a good point, but I do wonder if it’s not having their finger in the pulse or it’s just that social media drives a lot of the mainstream media narrative and that in turn is driven by a relatively small number of people.

It’s one of the largest factors at play for me.

You look at immigration, and the politicians and middle class will point to the reports saying how much it benefits the country. Those same people ignore the reports that show the impact of immigration on lower class people is negative.

But that’s just a microcosm of a much larger issue for me. The biggest problem, in my view, is that there is no longer a trust in the institutions that make up ‘the system’.

You have everyone from the bbc through to the largest corporations supporting BLM protests, that were just as destructive as the ones we had this week. Why the difference? Well, the perception is that it’s because the game is stacked against the normal bloke on the street.

Same with equity and diversity in general;

women are men, men are women, and their rights are more important than the rights of your mom, sister, wife etc.

‘lived experience’ of minorities is worth more than the majority.

Women are both equal to men, yet somehow superior due to masculinity being toxic

Common sense maths of - more people in the country = less to go around is racist.

Micro aggressions and implicit bias are both innate, yet also punishable.


Then throw in the generational challenges and wealth inequality, I think the British populace have been fairly patient - especially where all the politicians and large employers are aligned in the view that the main barrier to ‘making society fairer’ is the white male who is stuck in the past.

The worry is that the cunts like Robinson and the EDL have waited for this moment, and they’re taking advantage.

[Hal Jordan]

Nothing like getting lagered up before a good protest ( Manchester, where two counter-protests also happening as well as a Trans Pride march! )

They're so monochrome in their clothing choices. It's like a bunch of leased Audis have decided to do a racism.

[epwc]

My daughters just sent me a video from TikTok by someone who I assume was arrested and charged following the Remembrance weekend march in London where he explains why these “protests” are happening and why they are necessary

It’s 60mb so I can’t post it, can’t link to it cos I’m not on TikTok

[lemonhead]

We’ve hardly mentioned class and regionalism here as specific things.

The UK will vote for a complete fucking shyster because he went to Eton and Oxbridge and has a posh voice.

A competent man with a broad Birmingham accent would never be elected Prime Minister.

This is a significant part of the disenfranchisement, that there are no ‘people like me’ in parliament or positions of leadership. Those who do come from that background have their accents knocked off them.

A functional Union movement used to be one of the things that that gave people that representation.

Apropos of flip all, learned from my mum a few years back a boy I used know at school age 7 was discretely sent round our house to play a bit more often than usual by his dad, the local labour candidate.

Raised on BBC audiobooks I nursed a proper little Fauntleroy accent at the time (before getting firmly punched out a few years later back in Ireland) which he'd apparently hoped would rub off on young Alex. Depressing as feck to hear, always wondered if that approach ever did him any good.

[robmatic]

Nothing like getting lagered up before a good protest ( Manchester, where two counter-protests also happening as well as a Trans Pride march! )

There's been some good discussion here about the manifold causes of white male resentment but we probably shouldn't discount the factor of people being cunts just for the sake of it.

[SaintK]

Nothing like getting lagered up before a good protest ( Manchester, where two counter-protests also happening as well as a Trans Pride march! )

There's been some good discussion here about the manifold causes of white male resentment but we probably shouldn't discount the factor of people being cunts just for the sake of it.

Absolutely!!!

[Slick]

Nothing like getting lagered up before a good protest ( Manchester, where two counter-protests also happening as well as a Trans Pride march! )

There's been some good discussion here about the manifold causes of white male resentment but we probably shouldn't discount the factor of people being cunts just for the sake of it.

Oh yeah, for absolutely sure

[petej]

Nothing like getting lagered up before a good protest ( Manchester, where two counter-protests also happening as well as a Trans Pride march! )

There's been some good discussion here about the manifold causes of white male resentment but we probably shouldn't discount the factor of people being cunts just for the sake of it.

Or actually how small a number it is.

[petej]

Anyone one else find it grating listening to a male dominated old senior management team bullshitting on about sexism and racism while comfortably being the biggest beneficiaries of it?

[Random1]

Anyone one else find it grating listening to a male dominated old senior management team bullshitting on about sexism and racism while comfortably being the biggest beneficiaries of it?

Same as priests in any traditional religion - they’re repeating the dogma, regardless of the hypocrisy it implies.

[Torquemada 1420]

Blaming everything on the Brits as is fashionable today is an example of Main Character Energy on our own part

Did I really say that?

Not available on the Beeb now, but an excellent watch if you can locate it
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pz9d6

[Slick]

Bloody colonials

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn38ppr4zj0o

[Paddington Bear]

Anyone one else find it grating listening to a male dominated old senior management team bullshitting on about sexism and racism while comfortably being the biggest beneficiaries of it?

Same as priests in any traditional religion - they’re repeating the dogma, regardless of the hypocrisy it implies.

Two points on this -

1) what PeteJ says is one of the things that really grates on me. ‘Oh yes it’s awful there’s so many men in x’ never means taking money and opportunities away from them and their mates, it’s about taking them away from the people below them, generally with a ‘won’t matter, I’ll be retired’ angle.

2) and like any religion with a dogma lectured from the establishment, what we find when the curtain gets peeled back and people feel more able to speak/act their mind, we realise how few people actually really believe in it.

[dpedin]

Nothing like getting lagered up before a good protest ( Manchester, where two counter-protests also happening as well as a Trans Pride march! )

There's been some good discussion here about the manifold causes of white male resentment but we probably shouldn't discount the factor of people being cunts just for the sake of it.

Or actually how small a number it is.

This! All this rioting shite is being orchestrated by a very small number of right wing racist twats via social media supplemented by local, gormless and usually toothless idiots who are just looking for a chance to cause trouble and loot a few shops. It's their 5 mins of fame. Alcohol and coke is feeding the frenzy. It will all die down once it starts raining or once the football seasons starts. Trying to read more into this episode is giving it and the twats involved more credence than it deserves and doesn't do much to further the real and required discussion about the bum deal the young folk, of all colors, of today are getting.

[epwc]

Trying to read more into this episode is giving it and the twats involved more credence than it deserves and doesn't do much to further the real and required discussion about the bum deal the young folk, of all colors, of today are getting.

That’s where I stand on this, I just don’t understand why white males specifically seem to feel more disempowered than others

[sefton]

Trying to read more into this episode is giving it and the twats involved more credence than it deserves and doesn't do much to further the real and required discussion about the bum deal the young folk, of all colors, of today are getting.

That’s where I stand on this, I just don’t understand why white males specifically seem to feel more disempowered than others

They feel more disempowered because they once held all the power, or at least they think they did.

[fishfoodie]

There's been some good discussion here about the manifold causes of white male resentment but we probably shouldn't discount the factor of people being cunts just for the sake of it.

Or actually how small a number it is.

This! All this rioting shite is being orchestrated by a very small number of right wing racist twats via social media supplemented by local, gormless and usually toothless idiots who are just looking for a chance to cause trouble and loot a few shops. It's their 5 mins of fame. Alcohol and coke is feeding the frenzy. It will all die down once it starts raining or once the football seasons starts. Trying to read more into this episode is giving it and the twats involved more credence than it deserves and doesn't do much to further the real and required discussion about the bum deal the young folk, of all colors, of today are getting.

But how can that be ?

Gbeebies & the Tory press say this is a full on crisis for Starmer, & that the UK will be like Haiti within a month !

[Tilly Orifice]

Trying to read more into this episode is giving it and the twats involved more credence than it deserves and doesn't do much to further the real and required discussion about the bum deal the young folk, of all colors, of today are getting.

That’s where I stand on this, I just don’t understand why white males specifically seem to feel more disempowered than others

They feel more disempowered because they once held all the power, or at least they think they did.

And even when they didn't they could at least look down on lesser folk.

[Slick]

Trying to read more into this episode is giving it and the twats involved more credence than it deserves and doesn't do much to further the real and required discussion about the bum deal the young folk, of all colors, of today are getting.

That’s where I stand on this, I just don’t understand why white males specifically seem to feel more disempowered than others

What about the riots that started in London a few years ago that was powered mainly by black youths? Or the recent Gaza marches that were mainly brown youths?

You answered a post that specifically said it was a tiny group of people and specifically said it was young folk of all colours with another dig at white males. I’m beginning to think you haven’t started this thread entirely honourably.

[sefton]

Trying to read more into this episode is giving it and the twats involved more credence than it deserves and doesn't do much to further the real and required discussion about the bum deal the young folk, of all colors, of today are getting.

That’s where I stand on this, I just don’t understand why white males specifically seem to feel more disempowered than others

What about the riots that started in London a few years ago that was powered mainly by black youths? Or the recent Gaza marches that were mainly brown youths?

You answered a post that specifically said it was a tiny group of people and specifically said it was young folk of all colours with another dig at white males. I’m beginning to think you haven’t started this thread entirely honourably.

The Gaza marches are in no way comparable to the widespread and organised mass lawlessness that has taken place this week.

[Slick]

That’s where I stand on this, I just don’t understand why white males specifically seem to feel more disempowered than others

What about the riots that started in London a few years ago that was powered mainly by black youths? Or the recent Gaza marches that were mainly brown youths?

You answered a post that specifically said it was a tiny group of people and specifically said it was young folk of all colours with another dig at white males. I’m beginning to think you haven’t started this thread entirely honourably.

The Gaza marches are in no way comparable to the widespread and organised mass lawlessness that has taken place this week.

Absolutely not, but they were populated by thousands of youths that felt disempowered

[Random1]

Anyone one else find it grating listening to a male dominated old senior management team bullshitting on about sexism and racism while comfortably being the biggest beneficiaries of it?

Same as priests in any traditional religion - they’re repeating the dogma, regardless of the hypocrisy it implies.

Two points on this -

1) what PeteJ says is one of the things that really grates on me. ‘Oh yes it’s awful there’s so many men in x’ never means taking money and opportunities away from them and their mates, it’s about taking them away from the people below them, generally with a ‘won’t matter, I’ll be retired’ angle.

2) and like any religion with a dogma lectured from the establishment, what we find when the curtain gets peeled back and people feel more able to speak/act their mind, we realise how few people actually really believe in it.

Couldn’t agree more, right up until the final part of your final point; I think it’s a little more nuanced than people not actually believing. It’s that the woke don’t think through their position to its consequence; which means that when you start (as a non believer) to point out the inconsistencies and hypocrisies within their belief, they just shut down.

I’ve just had that exact thing happen to me on the olympics thread - I’ve challenged the narrative that sex is a spectrum and I literally got told to fuck myself. That’s a less polite version of what you get with religious zealots. But they just don’t see it, because they are convinced that people that disagree are bad people. Blasphemers if you will.

Until we get to some proper logical discourse where we are all allowed to talk through our views to their logical consequence, we’re never going to lance the boil.

[Slick]

Some of the papers today had quotes from people on the periphery of these riots, people that had come because they were angry but didn’t want anything to do with the violence. The common thread was that they felt that their area where their family had lived for generations had been “taken over” due to mass immigration.

Whenever this come up on here it’s ridiculed by folk who have zero experience of this happening to them, but it’s a common theme time and time again.

[Uncle fester]

I blame the Iraq war for a lot of the breakdown in trust. We were assured that Iraq presented a danger to the west with questionable evidence. That war in turn kicked off ISIS and a whole new level of turbo charge for the unrest with West/East.

[epwc]

What about the riots that started in London a few years ago that was powered mainly by black youths?

What about them, there was no ideology behind them it was just thugs being thugs. This lot are different.

Or the recent Gaza marches that were mainly brown youths?

What was wrong with the Gaza marches? I participated in quite a few,, very little trouble for the number of people, a hugely mixed crowd of all ages and ethnicities (although more brown than non brown)

You answered a post that specifically said it was a tiny group of people and specifically said it was young folk of all colours with another dig at white males. I’m beginning to think you haven’t started this thread entirely honourably.

I said that youth of all colours need a better deal, I can’t see that being a dig at white males

As far as honour is concerned, I don’t even know what the fuck you’re talking about.

I started this thread because there are definitely people here that think white males are having a tough time, it spilled over onto the Southport thread which I thought was inappropriate. I also really do want to understand more because really I don’t know why they in particular feel so marginalised

[Biffer]

Same as priests in any traditional religion - they’re repeating the dogma, regardless of the hypocrisy it implies.

Two points on this -

1) what PeteJ says is one of the things that really grates on me. ‘Oh yes it’s awful there’s so many men in x’ never means taking money and opportunities away from them and their mates, it’s about taking them away from the people below them, generally with a ‘won’t matter, I’ll be retired’ angle.

2) and like any religion with a dogma lectured from the establishment, what we find when the curtain gets peeled back and people feel more able to speak/act their mind, we realise how few people actually really believe in it.

Couldn’t agree more, right up until the final part of your final point; I think it’s a little more nuanced than people not actually believing. It’s that the woke don’t think through their position to its consequence; which means that when you start (as a non believer) to point out the inconsistencies and hypocrisies within their belief, they just shut down.

I’ve just had that exact thing happen to me on the olympics thread - I’ve challenged the narrative that sex is a spectrum and I literally got told to fuck myself. That’s a less polite version of what you get with religious zealots. But they just don’t see it, because they are convinced that people that disagree are bad people. Blasphemers if you will.

Until we get to some proper logical discourse where we are all allowed to talk through our views to their logical consequence, we’re never going to lance the boil.

You got told that because I don't consider you an honest actor, not because of subject matter. I know other people agree with me.

[Random1]

Two points on this -

1) what PeteJ says is one of the things that really grates on me. ‘Oh yes it’s awful there’s so many men in x’ never means taking money and opportunities away from them and their mates, it’s about taking them away from the people below them, generally with a ‘won’t matter, I’ll be retired’ angle.

2) and like any religion with a dogma lectured from the establishment, what we find when the curtain gets peeled back and people feel more able to speak/act their mind, we realise how few people actually really believe in it.

Couldn’t agree more, right up until the final part of your final point; I think it’s a little more nuanced than people not actually believing. It’s that the woke don’t think through their position to its consequence; which means that when you start (as a non believer) to point out the inconsistencies and hypocrisies within their belief, they just shut down.

I’ve just had that exact thing happen to me on the olympics thread - I’ve challenged the narrative that sex is a spectrum and I literally got told to fuck myself. That’s a less polite version of what you get with religious zealots. But they just don’t see it, because they are convinced that people that disagree are bad people. Blasphemers if you will.

Until we get to some proper logical discourse where we are all allowed to talk through our views to their logical consequence, we’re never going to lance the boil.

You got told that because I don't consider you an honest actor, not because of subject matter. I know other people agree with me.

I have always been an honest actor.

I’ve had multiple debates on here, and I have changed my mind on at least two matters (systemic racism and the value of equity as a concept) specifically due to those debates.

I value the conversations on here, as it shapes my thinking. That’s what a non-dogmatic approach provides.

[Paddington Bear]

Some of the papers today had quotes from people on the periphery of these riots, people that had come because they were angry but didn’t want anything to do with the violence. The common thread was that they felt that their area where their family had lived for generations had been “taken over” due to mass immigration.

Whenever this come up on here it’s ridiculed by folk who have zero experience of this happening to them, but it’s a common theme time and time again.

Yep. I posted a fair while back about my family - most branches of which lived within what is now Greater London for at least 200 years or so. Places like Leyton, Walthamstow, Hendon, Wembley, Bethnal Green, Golders Green, Willesden etc etc. All have had astonishing demographic change that has rendered all unrecognisable to the places my family are from. Most are now total dumps as well.

Where I live I’d say probably a good 20-25% of people I meet locally grew up in and around Harrow, and felt compelled to move out because of the demographic change. There’s always a sadness to how they talk about the place, again a complete dump now with no compelling reason for being one.

It’s happening very very rapidly in South Bucks where I grew up as well, people find it painful and it creates all sorts of issues, at least in the short term.

What I always find bizarre is we’re not really supposed to talk about this, we’re not really supposed to notice, and if we do it has to be described as a good thing. Demographic change has tended to be opposed vigorously throughout history. Successful multi ethnic societies tend to discourage it heavily as a result, we do the opposite then wonder why millions vote for Reform and thousands of knuckle draggers are out on the streets. This was all completely predictable

[epwc]

Leyton has been a dump pretty much all my life, Bethnal Green is all very chic now (my daughter lived there), Walthamstow likewise.

The demographics in these places have been changing for decades. As an example Walthamstow was pretty much exclusively Asian 20 years ago, there are LOADS of white people there now. Like most other major cities in the world it's all very dynamic.

Another example I know a lot about is Whitechapel, when all the white people and Jews left Whitechapel Market and Watney Street Market both became deserts, they are both buzzing again now.

I'm not saying I don't understand your concerns PB, but what do you think the solution is?

[epwc]

Some of the papers today had quotes from people on the periphery of these riots, people that had come because they were angry but didn’t want anything to do with the violence. The common thread was that they felt that their area where their family had lived for generations had been “taken over” due to mass immigration.

Whenever this come up on here it’s ridiculed by folk who have zero experience of this happening to them, but it’s a common theme time and time again.

Migration from all the undesirable brown places is unlikely to stop, I guess we could try and say we only want white immigrants but unlikely to go down well with all us brown folk already here. Maybe white only enclaves? Or a policy like Singapore that allots housing by race?

I really have no answer that addresses the issue. As I asked PB, what is the solution?

And in the absence of a solution should we expect this kind of "action" to become normalised?

[_Os_]

Some of the papers today had quotes from people on the periphery of these riots, people that had come because they were angry but didn’t want anything to do with the violence. The common thread was that they felt that their area where their family had lived for generations had been “taken over” due to mass immigration.

Whenever this come up on here it’s ridiculed by folk who have zero experience of this happening to them, but it’s a common theme time and time again.

They're not legitimate concerns they're people who demand they "have their country back", which to them means making it white, something which is unachievable. Not that it matters but the UK was never an ethno state, UK citizenship has always been determined by soil/residence (unlike Ireland where citizenship is based around blood/ethnicity and can be retained indefinitely through generations of living outside Ireland, this isn't possible for British people past the first generation or two). You can tell much of the right don't comprehend this as "immigrants" and people who aren't white are constantly conflated.

They don't love the UK they actually hate it. This in turn makes them a hindrance to the UK as it exists now and will do into the future.

They're free to make poor political choices of course, to vote Reform or try to make Farage PM. But as we've seen with 14 years of Tory rule and Brexit, this is likely to worsen their position.

[vball]

The demographics is very different in many parts of UK.
Went to school in Scottish Borders and left 1980 ... only non whites were the lad whose parents owned an Italian restaurant and two Chinese whose parents had the local chinky. I then went to work in London and was amazed at the number of different peoples (none of course said anything to me when I said hello as I passed them in the street). I remember going for Indian food with the lads from work as was the only white person there.
Later when working in Dubai, we had over 27 Nationalities in our office.
Last move was to Inverness and working for a huge US multinational. We got questioned on why our diversity figures were so low. Easy answer, where do you get non whites from as there are certainly none here.

Looking at the TV scenes makes me feel so lucky that I have none of these issues (currently trying to work out how to ensure pine martins do not break into squirrel feeders) and hope that they can be rectified soon. Heart breaking

[Paddington Bear]

Leyton has been a dump pretty much all my life, Bethnal Green is all very chic now (my daughter lived there), Walthamstow likewise.

The demographics in these places have been changing for decades. As an example Walthamstow was pretty much exclusively Asian 20 years ago, there are LOADS of white people there now. Like most other major cities in the world it's all very dynamic.

Another example I know a lot about is Whitechapel, when all the white people and Jews left Whitechapel Market and Watney Street Market both became deserts, they are both buzzing again now.

I'm not saying I don't understand your concerns PB, but what do you think the solution is?

No disagreement on Leyton! But in the 30s it was a really pleasant place by all accounts. No longer.

Solution wise: as I say successful multi-ethnic societies throughout history have attempted to ensure that the ethnic balance doesn’t shift markedly. We are seeing ours shift astonishingly rapidly because we give out millions of visas a year. I don’t think it’s a winner economically and I think it’s a disaster for society. Essentially I don’t think we can have expected any other outcome from the immigration policies we have pursued for 25 years or so, that were turbocharged by Johnson and Patel in 2019.

Success would look like very low levels of migration, very low tolerance for failing to integrate and zero tolerance for ethnic based street disturbances like the ones we’re currently seeing.

[petej]

Some of the papers today had quotes from people on the periphery of these riots, people that had come because they were angry but didn’t want anything to do with the violence. The common thread was that they felt that their area where their family had lived for generations had been “taken over” due to mass immigration.

Whenever this come up on here it’s ridiculed by folk who have zero experience of this happening to them, but it’s a common theme time and time again.

Yep. I posted a fair while back about my family - most branches of which lived within what is now Greater London for at least 200 years or so. Places like Leyton, Walthamstow, Hendon, Wembley, Bethnal Green, Golders Green, Willesden etc etc. All have had astonishing demographic change that has rendered all unrecognisable to the places my family are from. Most are now total dumps as well.

Where I live I’d say probably a good 20-25% of people I meet locally grew up in and around Harrow, and felt compelled to move out because of the demographic change. There’s always a sadness to how they talk about the place, again a complete dump now with no compelling reason for being one.

It’s happening very very rapidly in South Bucks where I grew up as well, people find it painful and it creates all sorts of issues, at least in the short term.

What I always find bizarre is we’re not really supposed to talk about this, we’re not really supposed to notice, and if we do it has to be described as a good thing. Demographic change has tended to be opposed vigorously throughout history. Successful multi ethnic societies tend to discourage it heavily as a result, we do the opposite then wonder why millions vote for Reform and thousands of knuckle draggers are out on the streets. This was all completely predictable

Yep the failure of government has been massive on this and they lied repeatedly. Calling people racist on mass doesn't hide that failure to deliver.

[epwc]

very low tolerance for failing to integrate

What does that mean?

[Sandstorm]

Aren’t these the same idiots who bitched about white Poles stealing all their jobs 20 years ago? They will never be happy and will always resort to violence to feel better for a bit.

They’re also easy targets for even the most ham-fasted Right Wing social media campaigns.