NPR

The ref was fantastic. He ignored lots of diving. England Premier League's refs can take that leaf. Lot of English players tried to dive and had to jump up after being ignored by the ref. Nice to see this for a change.

I think Southgate has been fantastic for English football, both on and off the pitch, but he did seem to lose his head a bit at the end there. It never seems a good idea to me to send on guys just to take a penalty having not been part of the ebb and flow of a game.

Feel most for Sako, where the hell were the senior players who should have been stepping up to take a penalty instead of leaving it to a kid.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:45 am Penalties are always a gamble and cant blame the individual players. They have decided long before the final who will take it. Doesn't matter how much they practice it, when they take it under such pressure each player will react differently. Rushford would not miss like that in a 1000 times.

Luke Shaw my English MOTM

Would they really have decided before the game exactly who will step up? Honest question, I don't know. Just seems odd that they would select 3 subs to take them well in advance.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:52 am Thing is, Sterling doesn't 'dive' in the theatrical sense, it's clear he falls over. A lot being made of not a lot really

He embarrassed himself yesterday

sturginho wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:00 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:52 am Thing is, Sterling doesn't 'dive' in the theatrical sense, it's clear he falls over. A lot being made of not a lot really

He embarrassed himself yesterday

Sterling is an odd one. I've found myself on several occasions this tournament being impressed with him staying up and trying to keep a move going, then on other occasions he falls over when in a really good position.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:15 am

Not gonna lie, the highlight of my tournament

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:00 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:45 am Penalties are always a gamble and cant blame the individual players. They have decided long before the final who will take it. Doesn't matter how much they practice it, when they take it under such pressure each player will react differently. Rushford would not miss like that in a 1000 times.

Luke Shaw my English MOTM

Would they really have decided before the game exactly who will step up? Honest question, I don't know. Just seems odd that they would select 3 subs to take them well in advance.

My bit of amateur sports psychology - if you’re Rashford and Sancho are you flattered to be brought on at the death for penalties or do you think well he hasn’t wanted me on the pitch for 119 minutes and now I’m chucked into this? Depends on the individual no doubt.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:00 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:45 am Penalties are always a gamble and cant blame the individual players. They have decided long before the final who will take it. Doesn't matter how much they practice it, when they take it under such pressure each player will react differently. Rushford would not miss like that in a 1000 times.

Luke Shaw my English MOTM

Would they really have decided before the game exactly who will step up? Honest question, I don't know. Just seems odd that they would select 3 subs to take them well in advance.

Presumably they will know from the practice drills who is best at taking them. In that sense it seems reasonable to get whoever it is on the pitch. There is the argument that the subs weren't warmed up or whatever, but I don't know, I reckon they would all be feeling the same pressure.

Allegedly penalties are practiced at every training session so taking the extraordinary step of shoehorning two youngsters on at the death was for good reason. They score their penalties and it looks inspired, they miss it’s a tactical clusterfuck - fine margins

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:29 am 𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗚𝗼𝗼𝗱
A far better run than the doomsayers at outset and something to build upon. The majority enjoying something positive.
𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗕𝗮𝗱
Despite all the practising, England still poor at penalties.
𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗨𝗴𝗹𝘆
Racist abuse towards players who missed pens.
9 police officers injured.
Break in to Wembley.
Lunatic on the pitch during the game.
Laser into the Danish keeper's eyes/face.
The mass booing/whistling drowning the German anthem.

Football needs to get its house in order.

It’s society, not football. Football is just a focus point. Portraying it as just a football problem is an easy way to pretend that it’s not a problem that all of us have to act on.

Openside wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:29 am Allegedly penalties are practiced at every training session so taking the extraordinary step of shoehorning two youngsters on at the death was for good reason. They score their penalties and it looks inspired, they miss it’s a tactical clusterfuck - fine margins

Agreed, he went with his strikers, makes sense from where I'm sitting. Had he left them benched and a defender missed a penalty there'd be even more stupid shit flinging whataboutery

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:35 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:29 am 𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗚𝗼𝗼𝗱
A far better run than the doomsayers at outset and something to build upon. The majority enjoying something positive.
𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗕𝗮𝗱
Despite all the practising, England still poor at penalties.
𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗨𝗴𝗹𝘆
Racist abuse towards players who missed pens.
9 police officers injured.
Break in to Wembley.
Lunatic on the pitch during the game.
Laser into the Danish keeper's eyes/face.
The mass booing/whistling drowning the German anthem.

Football needs to get its house in order.

It’s society, not football. Football is just a focus point. Portraying it as just a football problem is an easy way to pretend that it’s not a problem that all of us have to act on.

Exactly. Football is just an outlet for it all.

Booing anthems was particularly uncouth however. Not sure if the booing of anthems and the fans without tickets ramming through gates and security will be helpful in England's 2030 world cup bid. Fortunately we have a govt partial to the odd bribe or two.

Now that's a pointless stretch if I ever saw one...

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:04 am

sturginho wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:00 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:52 am Thing is, Sterling doesn't 'dive' in the theatrical sense, it's clear he falls over. A lot being made of not a lot really

He embarrassed himself yesterday

Sterling is an odd one. I've found myself on several occasions this tournament being impressed with him staying up and trying to keep a move going, then on other occasions he falls over when in a really good position.

I was frustrated with his dives yesterday as there were plenty of opportunities to attack and instead he just threw himself to the floor. The penalty appeal was pretty dreadful too. Both he and Kane were guilty of seeking free kicks instead of making the most of a good position particularly when England hadn't had much ball - compare and contrast with Chiesa

Openside wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:29 am Allegedly penalties are practiced at every training session so taking the extraordinary step of shoehorning two youngsters on at the death was for good reason. They score their penalties and it looks inspired, they miss it’s a tactical clusterfuck - fine margins

Well indeed but by bringing on those two right at the death you’re reducing their role in the game to effectively one kick, the pressure is huge anyway but it must have been horrendous for them.

Gutted. Thought we might have done just about enough, but no doubt for me Italy were the better side for the majority of the match.

Penalties were poor and you have to ask whether the side on the pitch should have been the ones taking them. Oh well. Pickford immense.

A few idiots aside, London was absolutely rocking yesterday. Sad Met Line home but otherwise great fun.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:00 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:45 am Penalties are always a gamble and cant blame the individual players. They have decided long before the final who will take it. Doesn't matter how much they practice it, when they take it under such pressure each player will react differently. Rushford would not miss like that in a 1000 times.

Luke Shaw my English MOTM

Would they really have decided before the game exactly who will step up? Honest question, I don't know. Just seems odd that they would select 3 subs to take them well in advance.

Why do you think he wait till 1 min before the end to bring them up?

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:54 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:04 am

sturginho wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:00 am

He embarrassed himself yesterday

Sterling is an odd one. I've found myself on several occasions this tournament being impressed with him staying up and trying to keep a move going, then on other occasions he falls over when in a really good position.

I was frustrated with his dives yesterday as there were plenty of opportunities to attack and instead he just threw himself to the floor. The penalty appeal was pretty dreadful too. Both he and Kane were guilty of seeking free kicks instead of making the most of a good position particularly when England hadn't had much ball - compare and contrast with Chiesa

One thing that struck me last night, particularly after some of your posts on the modern game etc, was that when Grealish came on the commentators were almost saying that his main role in the team was to come on and win free kicks against tiring teams. Is it much of a leap to see teams start to have specialist "divers" who's role is to try and get free kicks in good positions and not much else.

Just struck me there must be all sorts of dynamics involved with penalty taking. If Southgate asks Saka beforehand whether he's up for taking one, is he going to say no and risk his place in the team?

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:03 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:54 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:04 am

Sterling is an odd one. I've found myself on several occasions this tournament being impressed with him staying up and trying to keep a move going, then on other occasions he falls over when in a really good position.

I was frustrated with his dives yesterday as there were plenty of opportunities to attack and instead he just threw himself to the floor. The penalty appeal was pretty dreadful too. Both he and Kane were guilty of seeking free kicks instead of making the most of a good position particularly when England hadn't had much ball - compare and contrast with Chiesa

One thing that struck me last night, particularly after some of your posts on the modern game etc, was that when Grealish came on the commentators were almost saying that his main role in the team was to come on and win free kicks against tiring teams. Is it much of a leap to see teams start to have specialist "divers" who's role is to try and get free kicks in good positions and not much else.

To be fair, I think that is more around the fact that he is able to hold the ball and allow the team to get out after sitting in. Grealish is good at that. The whole "most fouled" player is overblown though as Ashley Barnes was 3 on that list.

England are a good side but they are lacking in the middle of the park, when they play with 2 sitting mids they need a lot more from the likes of Mount and when Kane is off it as he was last night they don't have a replacement.

Feels like the game was lost trying to sit on that 1-0 lead after halftime.

Much more likeable England team then we have had since the 90s but talk about the world cup feels a bit hollow to me. International football is ridiculously competitive and the margins so tight you cant assume one good run means another one is likely.

It's not just one run though, we made the semis of the last world cup and lost in extra time then lost a Euros final on pens.

It's not unreasonable to see us as contenders next time, particularly with a young side.

It isn't a guarantee of anything of course.

Win us the Euros and I'll make you a saint!

Gary Neville getting tore in to Boris Johnson on Sky News this morning. Lovely thing to see, but it’s disgraceful that it takes a sportsman to do it when all the political journos are doffing their caps to him.

sturginho wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:38 am

Win us the Euros and I'll make you a saint!

What? Are they letting Argentina into the next Euros, for Mancini to manage?

Farage got pelted with bottles as well - amusing.

In terms of fan behaviour yesterday - most of London was a genuine party atmosphere and was great fun. Where it wasn't I think we need to start having a conversation about drug culture. I have never seen as much cocaine in my life as I did on the Met Line between Harrow and Baker Street yesterday.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:57 am I think Southgate has been fantastic for English football, both on and off the pitch, but he did seem to lose his head a bit at the end there. It never seems a good idea to me to send on guys just to take a penalty having not been part of the ebb and flow of a game.

Feel most for Sako, where the hell were the senior players who should have been stepping up to take a penalty instead of leaving it to a kid.

There’s a researcher on twitter sharing a lot of data about penalty taking and one that stood out was that younger players tended to make more.

I wonder if Gareth, et al. went too much with data and not enough with gut feeling, how individuals felt at that moment. I’m not sure when they have to be named ... but I’d hope after the extra 30, there’s time to ask who fancies a shot and to know one’s self / players to know when one really isn’t confident, esp with all the talk about how much sport psych work they’ve been doing

Is it possible to over analyse pens? Rashford sent the keeper the wrong way, his shot is a few inches off going in and then who knows what happens.

charltom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:03 am

sturginho wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:38 am

Win us the Euros and I'll make you a saint!

What? Are they letting Argentina into the next Euros, for Mancini to manage?

Argentina also won so a good weekend for his holiness

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:23 am Is it possible to over analyse pens? Rashford sent the keeper the wrong way, his shot is a few inches off going in and then who knows what happens.

It was a weird one, Rashford tried to get him to go early, which he didnt, but he still went the wrong way, but then Rashford had to take the kick from standing

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:05 am Farage got pelted with bottles as well - amusing.

In terms of fan behaviour yesterday - most of London was a genuine party atmosphere and was great fun. Where it wasn't I think we need to start having a conversation about drug culture. I have never seen as much cocaine in my life as I did on the Met Line between Harrow and Baker Street yesterday.

The pub I was in there was 12 outdoor tables, not one didn't have at least one person with a key. My friends included: had a day off today so big final drinking since 2 needed a livener around 7 and halftime.

Niegs wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:14 am

It is always those guys who miss their penalty, who start doing delays and dribblings or trying to outsmart the keeper. ALWAYS. I can tell by their run up if they are going to miss or not. It is always the same thing. FFS just hammer the thing in, like Kane did for example. Thats the only way to shoot a penalty.

Chiellini perfects the Owen Farrel smirk



Boo the anthem, I'll get you later

Often a 19-year old will put his hand up to do something to impress the group. The manager needs to recognise the difference between bravado and genuine ability to perform under pressure.

The real problem I suspect is how England treat taking a penalty. Do they treat it as a repeatable motor skill or as a mental challenge?

The top rugby goal kickers remove much of the mental gymnastics by going into a 'kicking-mode' that clears their head of everything around them. It then just becomes the repeatable motor-skill.

Football pundits/managers/players nearly always scoff at rugby kickers and will argue that it is easy. But of course it isn't but it can look easy when a payer like Wilkinson or Carter does it but only because they have done all the hard work.

A professional footballer should be able to kick a dead ball 12 yards into the 'postage stamp' part of the goal. Kick it there and regardless of the keeper's dive and size it will go in. Most of the time the penalty taker beats himself by overthinking it.