The Official English Rugby Thread

[Kawazaki]

I think some of this is an evolution in how players get under each other's skin. Given pros can't get away with blatant cheap shots anymore, they've looked for another way to do it. Similarly violence just isn't accepted in the same way as maybe it was in the past across the game. We all know the subs are running in to make sure the oppo can hear the whooping as much as anything.

People also forget that rugby is a contact sport, it's a game based on physical dominance and intimidation is part of that. I hate to mention the word snowflake, but you can understand why some people see it and their vicarious outrage trigger gets pulled.

[Tichtheid]

Sporstmanship has always been part of rugby, it's still there in the laws in the form of "spirit of the game" iirc.

Yes physical dominance is part of the game, but snidey wee shites guffawing, rubbing heads and celebrating errors is not physical domination and I believe it to be contrary to sportsmanship and the spirit of the game.


edit, Law 9. Foul Play

Misconduct

A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship.

Players must respect the authority of the referee. They must not dispute the referee’s decisions. They must stop playing immediately when the referee blows the whistle to stop play.
Sanction: Penalty.

[Margin__Walker]

I think some of this is an evolution in how players get under each other's skin. Given pros can't get away with blatant cheap shots anymore, they've looked for another way to do it. Similarly violence just isn't accepted in the same way as maybe it was in the past across the game. We all know the subs are running in to make sure the oppo can hear the whooping as much as anything.

People also forget that rugby is a contact sport, it's a game based on physical dominance and intimidation is part of that. I hate to mention the word snowflake, but you can understand why some people see it and their vicarious outrage trigger gets pulled.

Well if we're talking physical dominance, I guess Byron won that one. Tompkins was the one who ended up looking intimidated.

But it's part of the game (sadly). Play all your shithousery cards until someone reacts, then act the victim. And while people keep getting rewarded for it, they'll keep trying it on.

[Tichtheid]

I think some of this is an evolution in how players get under each other's skin. Given pros can't get away with blatant cheap shots anymore, they've looked for another way to do it. Similarly violence just isn't accepted in the same way as maybe it was in the past across the game. We all know the subs are running in to make sure the oppo can hear the whooping as much as anything.

People also forget that rugby is a contact sport, it's a game based on physical dominance and intimidation is part of that. I hate to mention the word snowflake, but you can understand why some people see it and their vicarious outrage trigger gets pulled.

Well if we're talking physical dominance, I guess Byron won that one. Tompkins was the one who ended up looking intimidated.

But it's part of the game (sadly). Play all your shithousery cards until someone reacts, then act the victim. And while people keep getting rewarded for it, they'll keep trying it on.

It's cowardly, and (won't someone think of the children alert) when kids see international heroes doing the shithouse stuff they will repeat it

[Paddington Bear]

I think some of this is an evolution in how players get under each other's skin. Given pros can't get away with blatant cheap shots anymore, they've looked for another way to do it. Similarly violence just isn't accepted in the same way as maybe it was in the past across the game. We all know the subs are running in to make sure the oppo can hear the whooping as much as anything.

People also forget that rugby is a contact sport, it's a game based on physical dominance and intimidation is part of that. I hate to mention the word snowflake, but you can understand why some people see it and their vicarious outrage trigger gets pulled.

Well if we're talking physical dominance, I guess Byron won that one. Tompkins was the one who ended up looking intimidated.

But it's part of the game (sadly). Play all your shithousery cards until someone reacts, then act the victim. And while people keep getting rewarded for it, they'll keep trying it on.

Yeah this is my point. This used to happen through cheap shots on the blindside, no way you'd get away with that now so the game moves on.

An example that for some reason has always stuck in my mind is when Quins won the Challenge Cup/Parker Pen/whatever years and years ago where the crucial moment was right towards the end of the game where Jason Leonard contrived to get himself punched in the face in full view of the ref.
Before I get accused of bias and whining from the wrong side of town, there was a period where Martin Johnson couldn't get within 500 yards of Vicarage Road without getting sent off and these incidents always seemed to occur with Richard Hill in the immediate vicinity. Sure it was a coincidence.

Only solution is to keep pinging head taps etc, but until refs do players are acting rationally and in continuation of a long tradition within the sport.

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah, I always find it funny how far ingrained it is that you can't punch these days.

Even when the red mist completely descends like it did with Byron, he still remembers not to throw an actual punch. Remarkable discipline.

[Kawazaki]

Well if we're talking physical dominance, I guess Byron won that one. Tompkins was the one who ended up looking intimidated.

He didn't look intimidated to me. He did brilliantly not to react in fact. And besides, is Byron McGuigan really the player you want to die on a hill with when complaining about shithousery?! I mean FFS fellas, open your eyes and lose the anything anti-Sarries spiel once in a while.

[Margin__Walker]

Well if we're talking physical dominance, I guess Byron won that one. Tompkins was the one who ended up looking intimidated.

He didn't look intimidated to me. He did brilliantly not to react in fact. And besides, is Byron McGuigan really the player you want to die on a hill with when complaining about shithousery?! I mean FFS fellas, open your eyes and lose the anything anti-Sarries spiel once in a while.

Nothing to do with Sarries. I've not mentioned them once. It's clearly something in the game, not one club.

Of course Tompkins didn't react. That's the aim of the game. Let's not try and draw an equivalence between head tapping/taunting and rugby being a physical game though. That's a bit of a stretch.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Well if we're talking physical dominance, I guess Byron won that one. Tompkins was the one who ended up looking intimidated.

He didn't look intimidated to me. He did brilliantly not to react in fact. And besides, is Byron McGuigan really the player you want to die on a hill with when complaining about shithousery?! I mean FFS fellas, open your eyes and lose the anything anti-Sarries spiel once in a while.

The rare instance of Tompkins doing brilliantly by not reacting, normally his not reacting moments are saved for his defensive positioning which all too often leaves him stranded and doing little of any use.

[Niegs]

Yeah, I always find it funny how far ingrained it is that you can't punch these days.

Even when the red mist completely descends like it did with Byron, he still remembers not to throw an actual punch. Remarkable discipline.

Fair point! I was telling a friend new to rugby (and with a long ice hockey background) how stricter policing / red cards / weeks-long bans have virtually erased some of the stuff I showed in clips from the 90s back.

I think Paddington might be onto something about these annoying things being an outlet for this extremely physical contest.

[Niegs]

Sporstmanship has always been part of rugby, it's still there in the laws in the form of "spirit of the game" iirc.

Yes physical dominance is part of the game, but snidey wee shites guffawing, rubbing heads and celebrating errors is not physical domination and I believe it to be contrary to sportsmanship and the spirit of the game.

This particularly gets on my nerves. I recently watched some of the men's and women's Canadian university championships, and you'd hear this a lot. Clapping and whooping a knock-on, ffs. Numbers of fans were low, but I'm not sure if it was coming from the team's bench or the family/friends in attendance. Either way, it was sad.

Winning a turnover, I get, though I don't like the big show that's often put on by virtually the whole team running in. There was one in a recent women's international that annoyed me so much, given what I believe about turnovers. Carrier got really isolated and 'tackler' was able to drop her without herself falling, so was able to get over the ball immediately. She stood crouched over her for what seemed like three seconds before anyone else arrived and the whistle went for holding on. It really didn't look like there was much holding on and the defender made absolutely no effort to lift the ball. That trapping it in for a penalty thing, especially when it's clear the can't or they'd fall over (so many of O'Mahoney's efforts!), shouldn't be allowed but I seem to be in the minority saying you should either lift the ball or immediately get the penalty if, in one lift, you don't come away with the ball. (No second bites at it either, and you must have actually CLEARLY released.)

Phew ... rant over ...

[Kawazaki]

I'm curious what many on this thread think of sledging in cricket.

[sockwithaticket]

I'm curious what many on this thread think of sledging in cricket.

Gotta do something to pass the time. If cricket only lasted 80 minutes it'd be less understandable.

[Kawazaki]

Christophe Ridley is just shite isn't he. I'm a total neutral in this - he just gets so much wrong. It's actually impressive incompetence.

[sockwithaticket]

He does seem to need his team to tell him something's an offence long after the incident more than most refs.

[Prembore]

He's not world class. But then neither are Foley or Tempest. Or Maxwell Keys. Exceptional referees are hard to find

[ASMO]

Bristol are just toilet, just clueless

[sockwithaticket]

He's not world class. But then neither are Foley or Tempest. Or Maxwell Keys. Exceptional referees are hard to find

And yet they let JP Doyle go. Madness.

[ASMO]

Sheedy is shocking, a complete drag anchor on their backline. Do they have another 10 they can use?

[sockwithaticket]

And Glaws get the try BP to go with the win. Bristol leave with nothing.

I wonder what kind of break clause was in Pat Lam's massive extension.

[Kawazaki]

Zero chance Bristol make the top-4.

[fishfoodie]

And Glaws get the try BP to go with the win. Bristol leave with nothing.

I wonder what kind of break clause was in Pat Lam's massive extension.

It's very strange.

I'm a massive Lam fan; & was thinking about this a few weeks ago; & I wonder if he just doesn't function well; when he has too many resources.

He failed at Blues; where he had endless players; & then he goes off to Connacht; where he doesn't have a pot to piss in; but he turned them into League winners; & then he goes to Briz; where he has one of the richest owners in the League; & again; the sum of the parts doesn't measure up.

He's a lovely guy; & coaches a brand of rugby that's great to watch; but you get the feeling he needs a co-coach with him;in the same way Lancaster on his own didn't work; but put him & Leo together; & give them their responsibilities; & you've a great coaching team.

I know Connacht would take him back in a heartbeat.

[Kawazaki]

I know Connacht would take him back in a heartbeat.

Steve Lansdowne would bite their hands off. There is another explanation - he reached his limit with Connaught.

[fishfoodie]

I know Connacht would take him back in a heartbeat.

Steve Lansdowne would bite their hands off. There is another explanation - he reached his limit with Connaught.

I'd be more inclined to that view; if they hadn't played such lovely stuff last season; & fully earned their final position.

If all Premiership teams chucked their coaches out after 3 months of dodgy results; there wouldn't be any of them in position for more than a year at a time.

[sockwithaticket]

I know Connacht would take him back in a heartbeat.

Steve Lansdowne would bite their hands off. There is another explanation - he reached his limit with Connaught.

I'd be more inclined to that view; if they hadn't played such lovely stuff last season; & fully earned their final position.

If all Premiership teams chucked their coaches out after 3 months of dodgy results; there wouldn't be any of them in position for more than a year at a time.

You've actually got me wondering about coaches who've been going well, gone into a dive and pulled out. There aren't many that spring to mind. Both Sarries and Exeter have had seasons under their current gaffers that started poorly but finished with trophies. Not so bad as winless by Christmas, mind, which Bris could well be. Usually, when clubs go into a slide, they don't come out with the same man at the helm.

I wondered with Wasps whether we might have rid ourselves of Dai a bit prematurely or whether he'd at least earnt longer to try and turn things around. Blackett obviously did well in the immediate aftermath, but last season was middling fare and this one's not going particularly well. The injury apocalypse makes it difficult to know whether that's a continuation of last season.

Big test for Lam. To the bolded, as well as they could play at times, there's always been the suspicion of a soft underbelly and there were some results that definitely didn't do anything to mitigate the impression.

[sockwithaticket]

Not even ten minutes played in the Wasps game and Umaga has failed to find touch with two penalties, Bassett's off with an HIA and Worcester scored a breakway try.

Feels like it could be a disappointing afternoon already.

[sockwithaticket]

Twice we've dropped the ball in attack and seen Worcester run 60+ metres to score

Follow up swiftly with one of our own, though. Dan Frost is playing very well, like a younger, quicker and more powerful Cruse.

[Kawazaki]

Malins is having a poor game.

[sockwithaticket]

Worcester finish the half with a healthy lead after scoring a try they actually had to work for.

Middling performances from both sides. Given our current form, I'm not sure if Wasps have the ability to overhaul the defecit having gifted 14 points.

[Kawazaki]

Christ, they still play the Red Indian music as the teams come out after half-time.

[Torquemada 1420]

WTF is wrong with Wasps? I know they have injuries but being bummed by Wuss?

[Raggs]

WTF is wrong with Wasps? I know they have injuries but being bummed by Wuss?

We appear to be trying a new attacking structure, and our defense has gone to pot.

Lots of injuries haven't helped, especially to key players. Throw Cruse, Launch, Gaskell, Jack Willis, Robson, Fekitoa, Odogwu etc back in, and we'd look better. Still embarrassing though.

[Raggs]

That was a harsh call for rolling I reckon.

Barbeary is just on another level with his physicality.

[Raggs]

Wasps using the crab, apparently Wuss players weren't informed of it;s existence since they've nto got a clue, just gave away a pen.

[Torquemada 1420]

WTF is wrong with Wasps? I know they have injuries but being bummed by Wuss?

We appear to be trying a new attacking structure, and our defense has gone to pot.

Lots of injuries haven't helped, especially to key players. Throw Cruse, Launch, Gaskell, Jack Willis, Robson, Fekitoa, Odogwu etc back in, and we'd look better. Still embarrassing though.

Play like that next week and Munster will kill you.

[sockwithaticket]

WTF is wrong with Wasps? I know they have injuries but being bummed by Wuss?

We appear to be trying a new attacking structure, and our defense has gone to pot.

Lots of injuries haven't helped, especially to key players. Throw Cruse, Launch, Gaskell, Jack Willis, Robson, Fekitoa, Odogwu etc back in, and we'd look better. Still embarrassing though.

Play like that next week and Munster will kill you.

I'll be amazed if Blackett puts out what's left of our first team for the second tier of Europe, so they may well kill us. It's an absolute nothing competition, though.

[Raggs]

They've just had a break, might be better to just play to get more cohesion.

[sockwithaticket]

They've just had a break, might be better to just play to get more cohesion.

Perhaps, but any injuries sustained to first team players in that competition will really stick in the craw. We've lost Fifita today, how many more can go down while we're waiting for others to come back?

[Torquemada 1420]

We appear to be trying a new attacking structure, and our defense has gone to pot.

Lots of injuries haven't helped, especially to key players. Throw Cruse, Launch, Gaskell, Jack Willis, Robson, Fekitoa, Odogwu etc back in, and we'd look better. Still embarrassing though.

Play like that next week and Munster will kill you.

I'll be amazed if Blackett puts out what's left of our first team for the second tier of Europe, so they may well kill us. It's an absolute nothing competition, though.

Have I been whooshed? You are in the Champions Cup?

[sockwithaticket]

Play like that next week and Munster will kill you.

I'll be amazed if Blackett puts out what's left of our first team for the second tier of Europe, so they may well kill us. It's an absolute nothing competition, though.

Have I been whooshed? You are in the Champions Cup?

I thought we were in the Challenge, my bad. For all the likelihood of us making the knock outs, the distinction doesn't really matter.