NPR

Dogbert wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:28 pm Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:47 pm

Dogbert wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:28 pm Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

Oh. Is it not our army?

My previous point exactly - There is this weird idea in some sections of the population that Scotland should be grateful to the union for having access to the armed forces. Scottish people pay the same taxes as the rest of the UK and as such they are as much our army, navy and air force as anyone's.

tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:06 pm

My previous point exactly - There is this weird idea in some sections of the population that Scotland should be grateful to the union for having access to the armed forces. Scottish people pay the same taxes as the rest of the UK and as such they are as much our army, navy and air force as anyone's.

Yes its a dumb argument....flat out wrong, condescending and counter productive.

I suppose from my political PoV its satisfying to see one shared British institution that the SNP cant rename and cover in saltires (sometimes at great expense like the Transport Police) having a high profile.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:38 pm

Dogbert wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:28 pm Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

Why is the obese slug Johnson getting his vaccination before all health workers?

Tattie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:46 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:31 pm

Dogbert wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:28 pm Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

The British army (well armed forces) is also the Scottish army....and I know for a fact they are deployed across the UK.

Also the geographical and population dispersion challenges outside of the central belt in Scotland are unique and probably need the extra logistical support.

Exactly. There is this weird idea in some sections of the population that Scotland should be grateful to the union for having access to the armed forces. Scottish people pay the same taxes as the rest of the UK and as such they are as much our army, navy and air force as anyone's.

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:34 pm

Tattie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:46 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:31 pm

The British army (well armed forces) is also the Scottish army....and I know for a fact they are deployed across the UK.

Also the geographical and population dispersion challenges outside of the central belt in Scotland are unique and probably need the extra logistical support.

Exactly. There is this weird idea in some sections of the population that Scotland should be grateful to the union for having access to the armed forces. Scottish people pay the same taxes as the rest of the UK and as such they are as much our army, navy and air force as anyone's.

I think it's more to push back at the SNPs narrative that everything bad is due to the Union and Scotland doesn't get anything out of it. I mean Sturgeon has been pushing the independence narrative through the pandemic. I don't blame them for counter measures.

Tattie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:47 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:34 pm

Tattie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:46 pm

Exactly. There is this weird idea in some sections of the population that Scotland should be grateful to the union for having access to the armed forces. Scottish people pay the same taxes as the rest of the UK and as such they are as much our army, navy and air force as anyone's.

I think it's more to push back at the SNPs narrative that everything bad is due to the Union and Scotland doesn't get anything out of it. I mean Sturgeon has been pushing the independence narrative through the pandemic. I don't blame them for counter measures.

What by distorting the truth? I think everyone agrees that the military are doing a good job in supporting the vaccination effort but to make out that they're a gift from Westminster and that we wouldn't have this resource if we were independent is wrong and pathetic.

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:02 pm

Tattie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:47 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:34 pm

I think it's more to push back at the SNPs narrative that everything bad is due to the Union and Scotland doesn't get anything out of it. I mean Sturgeon has been pushing the independence narrative through the pandemic. I don't blame them for counter measures.

What by distorting the truth? I think everyone agrees that the military are doing a good job in supporting the vaccination effort but to make out that they're a gift from Westminster and that we wouldn't have this resource if we were independent is wrong and pathetic.

No one has claimed they are a gift from Westminster, that's just the spit from Nats. They have said just that it's good the unions resources can help each other and it's something that simply doesn't get highlighted in the Scottish political sphere.

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:14 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:02 pm

Tattie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:47 pm

What by distorting the truth? I think everyone agrees that the military are doing a good job in supporting the vaccination effort but to make out that they're a gift from Westminster and that we wouldn't have this resource if we were independent is wrong and pathetic.

No one has claimed they are a gift from Westminster, that's just the spit from Nats. They have said just that it's good the unions resources can help each other and it's something that simply doesn't get highlighted in the Scottish political sphere.

I think you are missing the point from the original shit stirring post that started this and the ongoing responses

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:19 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:14 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:02 pm

No one has claimed they are a gift from Westminster, that's just the spit from Nats. They have said just that it's good the unions resources can help each other and it's something that simply doesn't get highlighted in the Scottish political sphere.

I think you are missing the point from the original shit stirring post that started this and the ongoing responses

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

I missed that.

Matt Hancock has set out tough new measures to stop Covid-19 variants from entering England, including a 10-year sentence for incoming passengers who lie about where they have travelled when abroad.
The health secretary said people who entered the UK from 33 high-risk countries would have to pay up to £1,750 to quarantine in government-designated hotels. He also confirmed a new “enhanced testing” regime for all international travellers, with two tests required during the quarantine process from next Monday.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:26 pm Blimey!!

Matt Hancock has set out tough new measures to stop Covid-19 variants from entering England, including a 10-year sentence for incoming passengers who lie about where they have travelled when abroad.
The health secretary said people who entered the UK from 33 high-risk countries would have to pay up to £1,750 to quarantine in government-designated hotels. He also confirmed a new “enhanced testing” regime for all international travellers, with two tests required during the quarantine process from next Monday.

Stable door, horse bolted springs to mind though

tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:39 pm So about 2 million more doses to go to get all the top four categories dosed at least once...should be doable this week.

This week was then one when the document the SG accidently published showed the expectation was for about 30% less supply.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:14 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:24 pm I see South Africa have decided not to bother with the cheap AZ vaccine, because although it still seems very effective against prevent severe illness against the SA variants, it doesn't seem that effective against mild or moderate illness, so it's apparently not worth bothering with. Obviously, as SA have such huge vaccine reserves they can afford to use only the absolute best vaccines...

Sorry FalseBay, but this is the reason ZA aren't doing well with vaccinations, not other mean countries buying up doses, but a seemingly incompetent government.

You are probably right.

One of Ex-President Zuma's ex-wives (as a polygamist, he has a number of these) was narrowly defeated in a Presidential election and still commands a lot of power in Government.

Although she is a medical doctor, she lacks logic and was responsible for a series of bizarre decrees which overruled President Ramaphosa's decisions on lockdown regulations.

I see her bossy authoritarian fingerprints all over this.

Glaston wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:00 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:38 pm

Dogbert wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:28 pm Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

Why is the obese slug Johnson getting his vaccination before all health workers?

Mate you need to visit Specsavers.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:20 pm Pretty fucking spectacular vaccine program so far!! I don't know how they managed to get it going so fast, but I can only imagine how many Tory Party fundraisers are getting £1 per jab completed.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:20 pm Pretty fucking spectacular vaccine program so far!! I don't know how they managed to get it going so fast, but I can only imagine how many Tory Party fundraisers are getting £1 per jab completed.

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:14 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:02 pm

Tattie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:47 pm

What by distorting the truth? I think everyone agrees that the military are doing a good job in supporting the vaccination effort but to make out that they're a gift from Westminster and that we wouldn't have this resource if we were independent is wrong and pathetic.

No one has claimed they are a gift from Westminster, that's just the spit from Nats. They have said just that it's good the unions resources can help each other and it's something that simply doesn't get highlighted in the Scottish political sphere.

I think you are missing the point from the original shit stirring post that started this and the ongoing responses

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

Dogbert wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:58 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:14 pm

eldanielfire wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:02 pm

No one has claimed they are a gift from Westminster, that's just the spit from Nats. They have said just that it's good the unions resources can help each other and it's something that simply doesn't get highlighted in the Scottish political sphere.

I think you are missing the point from the original shit stirring post that started this and the ongoing responses

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

But who pushed that line that that the Scottish Vaccine effort was only saved by the British Army , well practically the whole of the mainstream media - The Times , The Telegraph , The Sun , The Record , The Mail , The Express , The Mirror , BBC , STV etc

Are you telling me that they have some sort of agenda ?

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:51 pm Got my jab today

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:39 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:20 pm Pretty fucking spectacular vaccine program so far!! I don't know how they managed to get it going so fast, but I can only imagine how many Tory Party fundraisers are getting £1 per jab completed.

You should have left it at that.

Calculon wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:21 pm

Rinkals wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:14 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:24 pm I see South Africa have decided not to bother with the cheap AZ vaccine, because although it still seems very effective against prevent severe illness against the SA variants, it doesn't seem that effective against mild or moderate illness, so it's apparently not worth bothering with. Obviously, as SA have such huge vaccine reserves they can afford to use only the absolute best vaccines...

Sorry FalseBay, but this is the reason ZA aren't doing well with vaccinations, not other mean countries buying up doses, but a seemingly incompetent government.

You are probably right.

One of Ex-President Zuma's ex-wives (as a polygamist, he has a number of these) was narrowly defeated in a Presidential election and still commands a lot of power in Government.

Although she is a medical doctor, she lacks logic and was responsible for a series of bizarre decrees which overruled President Ramaphosa's decisions on lockdown regulations.

I see her bossy authoritarian fingerprints all over this.

The decision to suspend the rollout was taken on the advice of the Ministerial Advisory Committee (MAC) on COVID-19 vaccines. You can read the chairperson of the MAC (Professor Barry Schoub) explaining the decision here:

https://www.sabcnews.com/sabcnews/prof- ... suspended/

I don’t see how that decision is any way indicative of government incompetence

Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:27 pm Interesting that the EU is now begging for the Russian vaccine! The last that Western scientists were saying is that it's unsafe and not as good...

It's also a typically strong response from the EU to the Navalny situation... oh wait

Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:27 pm Interesting that the EU is now begging for the Russian vaccine! The last that Western scientists were saying is that it's unsafe and not as good...

It's also a typically strong response from the EU to the Navalny situation... oh wait

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:27 pm

Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:27 pm Interesting that the EU is now begging for the Russian vaccine! The last that Western scientists were saying is that it's unsafe and not as good...

It's also a typically strong response from the EU to the Navalny situation... oh wait

No, they weren't saying it was unsafe and not as good. They were saying that it hadn't undergone sufficient trials yet, and when they were supposedly giving it Putin's kids (right?) it hadn't finished trials.

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:51 pm Got my jab today

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:24 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:27 pm

Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:27 pm Interesting that the EU is now begging for the Russian vaccine! The last that Western scientists were saying is that it's unsafe and not as good...

It's also a typically strong response from the EU to the Navalny situation... oh wait

No, they weren't saying it was unsafe and not as good. They were saying that it hadn't undergone sufficient trials yet, and when they were supposedly giving it Putin's kids (right?) it hadn't finished trials.

The point was that Sputnik didn't go through Phase 3. At all.

It did phase 1 and 2, which proved the basics - that at small scale it was safe, and that from a medical perspective it produced antibodies. Off the back if that, tge Russian health authority/government signed it off, while everyone in the west moved to a large scale double blind trial.

Sputnik is badly misunderstood. It's actually 2 different adenovirus vaccines masquerading as a single vaccine - shot 2 is not the same as shot 1. The reason for that is that both shots are based on human adenovirus - so there's a high chance (unquantifiable thanks to a lack of
Phase 3) that the immune response after the 2nd dose is not a strengthened Covid19 response. It's one if several reasons that the Sputnik team want to see what happens using AZ as the 2nd dose (the other major reason being that they're struggling badly with the production of their second dose).

As an aside, the fact that AZ is based on a chimp Adenovirus is both what makes it known to be safe, but also means that in a some small populations globally it cannot be the local vaccine. Chimp adenovirus are known to be capable of infecting humans. But they struggle badly to live in the human body, get wiped out quickly, and aren't transmissible. So we know that they're safe as a base, but there's around 1% of the global population who are carrying antibodies for the underlying adenovirus who will need a different vaccine. But as I say, due to the lack of transmissability, they're very localised

Ymx wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:50 am Father in law had it. Said he had a very uncomfortable uneasy stomach issues on day 2.

Heard though that it’s a good sign and demonstrated the immune system has detected it as a threat.

Calculon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:53 am

Saint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:24 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:27 pm

No, they weren't saying it was unsafe and not as good. They were saying that it hadn't undergone sufficient trials yet, and when they were supposedly giving it Putin's kids (right?) it hadn't finished trials.

The point was that Sputnik didn't go through Phase 3. At all.

It did phase 1 and 2, which proved the basics - that at small scale it was safe, and that from a medical perspective it produced antibodies. Off the back if that, tge Russian health authority/government signed it off, while everyone in the west moved to a large scale double blind trial.

Sputnik is badly misunderstood. It's actually 2 different adenovirus vaccines masquerading as a single vaccine - shot 2 is not the same as shot 1. The reason for that is that both shots are based on human adenovirus - so there's a high chance (unquantifiable thanks to a lack of
Phase 3) that the immune response after the 2nd dose is not a strengthened Covid19 response. It's one if several reasons that the Sputnik team want to see what happens using AZ as the 2nd dose (the other major reason being that they're struggling badly with the production of their second dose).

As an aside, the fact that AZ is based on a chimp Adenovirus is both what makes it known to be safe, but also means that in a some small populations globally it cannot be the local vaccine. Chimp adenovirus are known to be capable of infecting humans. But they struggle badly to live in the human body, get wiped out quickly, and aren't transmissible. So we know that they're safe as a base, but there's around 1% of the global population who are carrying antibodies for the underlying adenovirus who will need a different vaccine. But as I say, due to the lack of transmissability, they're very localised

I’ve not read the article in the lancet detailing the results of the phase 3 trails for sputnik v, but I would I suspect that the authors would claim the reason for the 92% efficacy is at least partly due to a heterogenous boost (using AD26 and an AD5 booster). It is the same lack of heterogenous boost that some virologist theorized was the reason that the AstraZeneca vaccine “only” had 62% efficacy from phase 3 trials results published back in December. This was also for this reason that it was first suggested the AZ vaccine and Sputnik V be combined, and why AZ and Pfizer vaccines will be trailed together and sputnik v and CanSino – the latter uses a weakened type 5 strain of the adenovirus as vector.

Carrying antibodies for the vector virus also does necessarily preclude the vaccine from working. Baseline antibodies for AD26 (used as the vector for the J & J and the first shot of sputnik v) does not appear to neutralize an AD26 vaccine. This was from a study of over 80 000 Africans who received AD26 vaccines for HIV and Ebola. I don’t know if this is also the case for AD5, however it is interesting to note that AD5 CanSino has reported similar efficacy percentage to the AD26 Johnson & Johnson, both are single dose vaccines.

All the vector vaccines, including the AZ one, uses attenuated vaccines so I would be surprised if AZ chose the chimp adenoviruses over AD5 and AD26 based on safety reasons. More likely they chose it since as you say only one percent of people have antibodies to the chimp adenovirus (probably due to cross immunization) and because Oxford already had considerably experience working with that vector as a vaccine.

dpedin wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:14 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:39 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:20 pm Pretty fucking spectacular vaccine program so far!! I don't know how they managed to get it going so fast, but I can only imagine how many Tory Party fundraisers are getting £1 per jab completed.

You should have left it at that.

Spectacular it is - Probably because we asked the NHS supported by the army to lead the vaccine drive and told Serco, Deliottes, etc to feck off! Just imagine how good the Test, Trace and Isolate programme could have been for a fraction of the price we paid the Tory pals. Dont even mention the PPE prices ... I see the £100+m of stuff they ordered via the Florida Jewellery designer is not fit for purpose and can't be used.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:30 am

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:51 pm Got my jab today

Been awake most of the night with flu like symptoms (aches, pains and shivers) - known short term side effects of the AZ vax. My sister had the same after her jab. Bloody uncomfortable.