NPR

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:01 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:18 pm Thistle Pod on Twitter saying that Duhan has copped a 3w ban and misses the rest of the 6N. Which makes me doubt anyone on the citing panel actually watched the incident.

The notion that a red card has to come with a ban perhaps should be challenged. I can get on board with the idea it’s a red card if the impact is he misses the rest of the game he was playing in, and if it’s a serious incident there will be further punishment. The current system treats wildly different incidents more or less from the same starting point which seems wrong.

For the record I don’t have any particular issue with it being a red. Whilst the incident was tame, it’s easy to argue that it was clumsy and it was obviously direct contact to the face. If you don’t want a card, don’t do it. Equally, it’s difficult to argue the sanction for the incident should be the same as for Haouas punching Richie, for instance.

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:21 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:01 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:18 pm Thistle Pod on Twitter saying that Duhan has copped a 3w ban and misses the rest of the 6N. Which makes me doubt anyone on the citing panel actually watched the incident.

The notion that a red card has to come with a ban perhaps should be challenged. I can get on board with the idea it’s a red card if the impact is he misses the rest of the game he was playing in, and if it’s a serious incident there will be further punishment. The current system treats wildly different incidents more or less from the same starting point which seems wrong.

For the record I don’t have any particular issue with it being a red. Whilst the incident was tame, it’s easy to argue that it was clumsy and it was obviously direct contact to the face. If you don’t want a card, don’t do it. Equally, it’s difficult to argue the sanction for the incident should be the same as for Haouas punching Richie, for instance.

yup, I'm the same. I can just about see the argument for red within the current way things are being reffed, although I don't agree. But it's an obviously mistimed incident with zero malice so I would think the red would be enough. It's not dangerous by any stretch of the imagination

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:18 am Where was this level of outrage when it was the SH lads getting reds and bans for connecting with the head?

All I seem to remember are lectures about the need to go lower.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:10 am Confirmed as Bradbury to Bristol.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:17 am Yep. There’s a bit of a logjam in the back row at Edinburgh so it’s probably a good move for him, and for some of the younger guys as well.

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:21 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:10 am Confirmed as Bradbury to Bristol.

Good move for him I reckon. If there is one player that seems to excel when forced out of his comfort zone, it's him.

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:18 am Where was this level of outrage when it was the SH lads getting reds and bans for connecting with the head?

All I seem to remember are lectures about the need to go lower.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:30 am

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:18 am Where was this level of outrage when it was the SH lads getting reds and bans for connecting with the head?

All I seem to remember are lectures about the need to go lower.

Maybe look up the incident in question before spouting about things that aren't related? Go lower pertains to tackle heights, not fending.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:27 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:21 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:10 am Confirmed as Bradbury to Bristol.

Good move for him I reckon. If there is one player that seems to excel when forced out of his comfort zone, it's him.

Completely agree. Muncaster looks like a great prospect so allows him more game time.

Jimmy Smallsteps wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:18 am Where was this level of outrage when it was the SH lads getting reds and bans for connecting with the head?

All I seem to remember are lectures about the need to go lower.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:42 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:27 am

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:21 am

Good move for him I reckon. If there is one player that seems to excel when forced out of his comfort zone, it's him.

Completely agree. Muncaster looks like a great prospect so allows him more game time.

Yes on comfort zone and yes on Muncaster.

The two team thing strikes again, we just don't have the game time available for everyone coming through.

There is no quick fix for that, so moves like this are best for all concerned.

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:21 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:17 am Yep. There’s a bit of a logjam in the back row at Edinburgh so it’s probably a good move for him, and for some of the younger guys as well.

Muncaster's form and development is coming along very nicely so not as much a blow as it might have been 12 months ago or so

Plus Mata, Kunavalu and Haining....and Rudi who made his debut on Friday, at the age of 18

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:06 am

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:21 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:17 am Yep. There’s a bit of a logjam in the back row at Edinburgh so it’s probably a good move for him, and for some of the younger guys as well.

Muncaster's form and development is coming along very nicely so not as much a blow as it might have been 12 months ago or so

Plus Mata, Kunavalu and Haining....and Rudi who made his debut on Friday, at the age of 18

This may be harsh but I'd far rather watch any of the young lads than Haining, including Brown. Again, probably due to Baradbury having an down season of two but investing in Bradbury would have Neen better than Haining but contract timing and form buggered that.

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:06 am

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:21 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:17 am Yep. There’s a bit of a logjam in the back row at Edinburgh so it’s probably a good move for him, and for some of the younger guys as well.

Muncaster's form and development is coming along very nicely so not as much a blow as it might have been 12 months ago or so

Plus Mata, Kunavalu and Haining....and Rudi who made his debut on Friday, at the age of 18

This may be harsh but I'd far rather watch any of the young lads than Haining, including Brown. Again, probably due to Baradbury having an down season of two but investing in Bradbury would have Neen better than Haining but contract timing and form buggered that.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:41 am

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:06 am

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:21 am

Muncaster's form and development is coming along very nicely so not as much a blow as it might have been 12 months ago or so

Plus Mata, Kunavalu and Haining....and Rudi who made his debut on Friday, at the age of 18

This may be harsh but I'd far rather watch any of the young lads than Haining, including Brown. Again, probably due to Baradbury having an down season of two but investing in Bradbury would have Neen better than Haining but contract timing and form buggered that.

Not sure how after watching the game 2 days ago but I had forgotten about Brown. Another great prospect that needs game time.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:41 am

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:06 am

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:21 am

Muncaster's form and development is coming along very nicely so not as much a blow as it might have been 12 months ago or so

Plus Mata, Kunavalu and Haining....and Rudi who made his debut on Friday, at the age of 18

This may be harsh but I'd far rather watch any of the young lads than Haining, including Brown. Again, probably due to Baradbury having an down season of two but investing in Bradbury would have Neen better than Haining but contract timing and form buggered that.

Not sure how after watching the game 2 days ago but I had forgotten about Brown. Another great prospect that needs game time.

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:46 am With DvDM out for the rest of the 6N what do folks think Kyle Rowe's chances are? I'd quite like to see him given a chance, certainly over Kinghorn. Rufus Mclean is injured I believe too, I suppose Steyn is a decent replacement but he appears to me to be a smaller, slower, less explosive version of DvDM.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:53 am

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:46 am With DvDM out for the rest of the 6N what do folks think Kyle Rowe's chances are? I'd quite like to see him given a chance, certainly over Kinghorn. Rufus Mclean is injured I believe too, I suppose Steyn is a decent replacement but he appears to me to be a smaller, slower, less explosive version of DvDM.

Hastings and Thompson have been added to the squad, to me that says Kinghorn is starting on the wing - I'd go Price, Finn, Kinghorn, Johnson, Bennett, Graham, Hogg and have at it.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:53 am

Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:46 am With DvDM out for the rest of the 6N what do folks think Kyle Rowe's chances are? I'd quite like to see him given a chance, certainly over Kinghorn. Rufus Mclean is injured I believe too, I suppose Steyn is a decent replacement but he appears to me to be a smaller, slower, less explosive version of DvDM.

Hastings and Thompson have been added to the squad, to me that says Kinghorn is starting on the wing - I'd go Price, Finn, Kinghorn, Johnson, Bennett, Graham, Hogg and have at it.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:01 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:18 pm Thistle Pod on Twitter saying that Duhan has copped a 3w ban and misses the rest of the 6N. Which makes me doubt anyone on the citing panel actually watched the incident.

The notion that a red card has to come with a ban perhaps should be challenged. I can get on board with the idea it’s a red card if the impact is he misses the rest of the game he was playing in, and if it’s a serious incident there will be further punishment. The current system treats wildly different incidents more or less from the same starting point which seems wrong.

For the record I don’t have any particular issue with it being a red. Whilst the incident was tame, it’s easy to argue that it was clumsy and it was obviously direct contact to the face. If you don’t want a card, don’t do it. Equally, it’s difficult to argue the sanction for the incident should be the same as for Haouas punching Richie, for instance.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:07 pm I wouldn't be surprised to see Vellacot on the bench just to nail him down to Scotland.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:13 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:07 pm I wouldn't be surprised to see Vellacot on the bench just to nail him down to Scotland.

In for a penny... get Vellacot taking quick taps and running at forwards from 70 mins


Did you notice that it was an outside centre he left for dead whilst running in his try on Friday? It might as well have been a tight head prop, he was accelerating away at a ridiculous rate.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:55 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:01 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:18 pm Thistle Pod on Twitter saying that Duhan has copped a 3w ban and misses the rest of the 6N. Which makes me doubt anyone on the citing panel actually watched the incident.

The notion that a red card has to come with a ban perhaps should be challenged. I can get on board with the idea it’s a red card if the impact is he misses the rest of the game he was playing in, and if it’s a serious incident there will be further punishment. The current system treats wildly different incidents more or less from the same starting point which seems wrong.

For the record I don’t have any particular issue with it being a red. Whilst the incident was tame, it’s easy to argue that it was clumsy and it was obviously direct contact to the face. If you don’t want a card, don’t do it. Equally, it’s difficult to argue the sanction for the incident should be the same as for Haouas punching Richie, for instance.

Haoas got a longer ban he just didn't question the red card so got a reduction in weeks. Duhan questioned the red card so there had to be a full disciplinary hearing and therefore no reduction. Would've been what a one week reduction I guess.

I think it's odd rugby citings so closely follow the English judiciary systems but they do and the SRU know it. I guess it's worth the risk.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:38 pm Scottish Schools boys finals at Murrayfield today. Free entry (although they're asking you to register for track and trace purposes), four games to be played. Bars and food stalls open.

North Berwick High School v Queen Victoria School | U16 Shield Final, 2.30pm kick-off at DAM Health Stadium

Queen Victoria School v Loretto School | U18 Shield Final, 4.45pm kick-off at DAM Health Stadium

Dollar Academy v George Watson's College | U16 Cup Final, 4.15pm kick-off at BT Murrayfield

Stewart's Melville College v Merchiston Castle School | U18 Cup Final, 6.30pm kick-off at BT Murrayfield

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:36 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:55 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:01 am

The notion that a red card has to come with a ban perhaps should be challenged. I can get on board with the idea it’s a red card if the impact is he misses the rest of the game he was playing in, and if it’s a serious incident there will be further punishment. The current system treats wildly different incidents more or less from the same starting point which seems wrong.

For the record I don’t have any particular issue with it being a red. Whilst the incident was tame, it’s easy to argue that it was clumsy and it was obviously direct contact to the face. If you don’t want a card, don’t do it. Equally, it’s difficult to argue the sanction for the incident should be the same as for Haouas punching Richie, for instance.

Haoas got a longer ban he just didn't question the red card so got a reduction in weeks. Duhan questioned the red card so there had to be a full disciplinary hearing and therefore no reduction. Would've been what a one week reduction I guess.

I think it's odd rugby citings so closely follow the English judiciary systems but they do and the SRU know it. I guess it's worth the risk.

The result was the same though, regardless of the means to get there, that was my point. Deliberately punching a player in the face should never end with the same ban as a clumsy incident while handing off a player regardless of the route to sanction at least in my view - one is a pre-meditated act and the other an accident. Perhaps that is another argument entirely though. The fact that questioning the sanction leads to essentially a longer ban needs looked at too tbh, given how subjective both the citing and then the adjudication of these incidents are (i.e. Nigel Owens thought this one was only a yellow). I understand the imperative to reduce wasted time, but it doesn't sit well with incidents like this which as I say are hugely subjective.

As an aside, I'm surprised the clubs aren't up in arms about it yet - Duhan will miss an additional club game as a result of the SRU taking a punt. There was nothing to lose for the SRU as 3 games is the same as 2 for them, but obviously his club now cops the extra 1 game ban. Presumably its Duhan himself that makes the decision, but that will be heavily influenced by the SRU.

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:42 pm Or maybe not... website saying online tickets have sold out....

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:36 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:55 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:01 am

The notion that a red card has to come with a ban perhaps should be challenged. I can get on board with the idea it’s a red card if the impact is he misses the rest of the game he was playing in, and if it’s a serious incident there will be further punishment. The current system treats wildly different incidents more or less from the same starting point which seems wrong.

For the record I don’t have any particular issue with it being a red. Whilst the incident was tame, it’s easy to argue that it was clumsy and it was obviously direct contact to the face. If you don’t want a card, don’t do it. Equally, it’s difficult to argue the sanction for the incident should be the same as for Haouas punching Richie, for instance.

Haoas got a longer ban he just didn't question the red card so got a reduction in weeks. Duhan questioned the red card so there had to be a full disciplinary hearing and therefore no reduction. Would've been what a one week reduction I guess.

I think it's odd rugby citings so closely follow the English judiciary systems but they do and the SRU know it. I guess it's worth the risk.

The result was the same though, regardless of the means to get there, that was my point. Deliberately punching a player in the face should never end with the same ban as a clumsy incident while handing off a player regardless of the route to sanction at least in my view - one is a pre-meditated act and the other an accident. Perhaps that is another argument entirely though. The fact that questioning the sanction leads to essentially a longer ban needs looked at too tbh, given how subjective both the citing and then the adjudication of these incidents are (i.e. Nigel Owens thought this one was only a yellow). I understand the imperative to reduce wasted time, but it doesn't sit well with incidents like this which as I say are hugely subjective.

As an aside, I'm surprised the clubs aren't up in arms about it yet - Duhan will miss an additional club game as a result of the SRU taking a punt. There was nothing to lose for the SRU as 3 games is the same as 2 for them, but obviously his club now cops the extra 1 game ban. Presumably its Duhan himself that makes the decision, but that will be heavily influenced by the SRU.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:56 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:42 pm Or maybe not... website saying online tickets have sold out....

That's going to be because the event has started (gates opened at 1). Give the ticket office a call to check - I'm sure you'll still be ok.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:45 pm van der Merwe misses two six nations games plus a club game for an accidental fleshy underside of the forearm coming into contact with a tackler's face.

iirc Haouas didn't miss any games after punching Jamie Ritchie in the face because rugby was postponed after that match due to covid.