The Springboks vs British & Irish Lions 1st Test Thread

[Blackmac]

We’ve seen plenty reds given for that. I couldn’t believe he didn’t even get a yellow.

I thought not. Barely above the horizontal and clearly landed on his arms and elbows before milking the head knock.

But at the very least checked?

I was under the impression they did. Certainly looked that way. And yes would be surprised that they didn't.

[Openside]

Can anyone argue that Itoje is not the best second row in the world right now? He was the best player on that pitch by a country mile

Imagine how good he’d be if he hadn’t spent most of the last year playing diddy teams.

He would walk into any team on the planet as first name on the sheet (taranaki girls 2nd XV excepted of course)

<name drop mode>I was playing tennis with John Mitchell today, I told him I thought Maro was the most destructive rugby player on the planet atm. He agreed

[Big D]

WTF is Warburton on about? Why would you consider changing 9 and 10?

If anyone gave a toss about player welfare Biggar shouldn't play the next Test as he failed the HIA.

Yes, agreed but that wasn't the point he was making. It was performance based.

[Blake]

All the pressure is on Rassie and the Boks now. Another loss and its goodnight sweetheart

Good. They need to feel a bit of pressure to motivate them. This “we are playing to bring hope to our country” bullshit needs to stop. We can’t always use the misery of our country to motivate the team. That shit only works when you are an underdog.

When you keep harping on and on about it, it doesn’t work anymore. We need a different motivator and hopefully tonight’s loss will light a fire again.

[ASMO]

Harris for Daly only change needed.

What can the Springboks do to come back now?

Would agree, Daly was an empty shirt today.

[OomStruisbaai]

Imagine how good he’d be if he hadn’t spent most of the last year playing diddy teams.

He would walk into any team on the planet as first name on the sheet (taranaki girls 2nd XV excepted of course)

<name drop mode>I was playing tennis with John Mitchell today, I told him I thought Maro was the most destructive rugby player on the planet atm. He agreed

Must be his Nigerian culture and orugin

[Sandstorm]

Faf kicks, Pollard kicks, Willie kicks, De Allende crashes. And when it isn’t working, there’s no Plan B.

We have an awesome backline, but they never get a chance with ball-in-hand.

When you are in possession in your own half, between the 50m and 22m line, your highest percentage play is ALWAYS a contestable box kick. It just is. If the kick is good you have a chance at gaining possession again. Either in the air, or at the breakdown, or with a counter ruck when going in hard against a retreating opposition pack and a misaligned defensive line.

It’s not going to work every time, but it will work more often than not and put you in range for a penalty or some other opportunity from a scrum or lineout.

Trying to play attacking rugby in that zone against modern defenses is suicide. Every tackle is a breakdown contest and you are either going to get turned over resulting in a turnover try, or concede a kickable penalty.

Fuck off Jake

[Ymx]

Just watched it. Blimey the boks were very unlucky with a number of calls there.

Call of clear and obvious in front of the kicker (which it needed to be due to the on field try call). Was anything but clear. The TMO even said words to that effect, but then still claimed it as ahead. Weird decision process.

I probably missed something but Faf trying to clear the ball from the “ruck” right on the try line. Emoji reached over the “ruck” and grabbed the ball also. Somehow became a lions pen??

The lifting above the horizontal and not returning to the ground down with care. In what world was that not a card. Not that I bay for cards.

The lions maul try looked a bit of a fumble. It might not have been, but it certainly deserved more angles of scrutiny there.

[ASMO]

If it was a fumble, it would have been a penalty try and a YC for Eben collapsing the maul.

[Sandstorm]

If it was a fumble, it would have been a penalty try and a YC for Eben collapsing the maul.

Never seen a yellow for a defender “making” the attacking team fall over the line to try to score from a maul.

[boere wors]

Just watched it. Blimey the boks were very unlucky with a number of calls there.

Call of clear and obvious in front of the kicker (which it needed to be due to the on field try call). Was anything but clear. The TMO even said words to that effect, but then still claimed it as ahead. Weird decision process.

I probably missed something but Faf trying to clear the ball from the “ruck” right on the try line. Emoji reached over the “ruck” and grabbed the ball also. Somehow became a lions pen??

The lifting above the horizontal and not returning to the ground down with care. In what world was that not a card. Not that I bay for cards.

The lions maul try looked a bit of a fumble. It might not have been, but it certainly deserved more angles of scrutiny there.

Spot on all your observations.

[ia801310]

Agree with this

https://www.planetrugby.com/five-takeaw ... irst-test/

"South African fatigue
The Springboks are worthy world champions, but even their resilience and ruggedness is no match for the global pandemic we have recently seen. There’s no doubt they faded in the second half and the longer the game went on, the more powerful the visitors appeared to get.

They had their moments; Pieter-Steph du Toit was his usual immense self and Eben Etzebeth matched him blow for blow, but both came second this time to their old foes, Lawes and Itoje. In the centres Lukhanyo Am and Damian de Allende were almost flawless in the first half, but the second saw them blowing and unable to claw their way back into the game.

However, as mentioned, these are a team of world champions in a country where rugby is the only common religion; they’re also a team that are the masters of analysis and they’ll regroup, recharge and rejuvenate to try and level the series next week.

They’re a 50 minute side right now, but in seven days’ time, they might well be back to their usual 80 minutes. Watch out Lions, it’s game on."



Also I see Gatland's mind games have worked.

https://www.keo.co.za/get-rid-of-jonker ... he-series/

"Marius Jonker must be replaced now as the TMO. Not because he is a cheat but because he was petrified to rule anything in the favour of the Springboks. He is incompetent, writes Mark Keohane.

I don’t blame Jonker for the Springboks first Test defeat against the British & Irish Lions, but my god it was embarrassing listening to Jonker crumble whenever a decision was referred his way. Even when he had to rule the Springboks try in their favour, he sounded apologetic for actually not finding something he could not rule against.

World Rugby, never make the mistake again of putting a local referee in the box for an international series.

Jonker’s biggest moment came with Willie le Roux’s try. The on-field decision was a try. He was asked if there was compelling evidence to change the decision. His response was that there was nothing ‘definitive’ but that Willie appeared to be in front.

Was he or was he not?

There was nothing ‘definitive’. His words. Not mine

.Jonker should never be a TMO again when the Springboks play

But he will because it is World Rugby’s way.

Stuff it up and we give you the next big game, as they did when Romain Poite stuffed up the third and final Test in the Lions versus All Blacks in 2017.

Where was Jonker when Tom Curry illegally scrummed into the Boks loosehead Ox Nche, on repeated television replays?

Nowhere!

Penalty Lions.

Jonker was a disgrace on Saturday night … not to South Africa but to TMO’s.

He was so out of his depth, it was as embarrassing watching it, as it will be for him for the rest of his life.

What a prick.

In a year, we will read of his heartache in feeling obliged in making the wrong decision.

His apology, every time he had to rule in favour of South Africa, was a cringe.

The Lions, this week, made a lot of South African being the TMO. They shouldn’t have. He was always going to be gold to them.

They should have been thankful.

What they don’t know about South Africans, is that (like Jonker) so many of them are so awed through insecurity that they would rather make the mistake and be applauded internationally.

Marius Jonker: You should never be allowed near a television set, let alone a rugby field.

Regardless of your nationality, you didn’t have the balls to make a rugby decision tonight because in your heart you know that Willie was not in front of the kicker and that Hamish Watson should have been carded.

You despicable coward.

Fuck You

*PS … Boks to win the series 2-0."

[Gumboot]

Harris for Daly only change needed.

What can the Springboks do to come back now?

Would agree, Daly was an empty shirt today.

Thought VDM had a poor game as well. Would prefer Adams or Rees-Zammit for the second test.

[ia801310]

Boks team is OK they are just stymied by the effects of Covid. They will be fitter and stronger next week.

Only change I would make next game is swap Wiese for Smith, Smith is too lightweight.

[Ymx]

Blimey faf and those box kicks drove me mad. Reminded me of Aaron Smith a couple of years back. So frustrating. Deserves some treatment from his own forwards for doing that crap.

[JM2K6]

If it was a fumble, it would have been a penalty try and a YC for Eben collapsing the maul.

Never seen a yellow for a defender “making” the attacking team fall over the line to try to score from a maul.

Maybe just for the in at the side and tackling the guy with the ball, then

[Slick]

*PS … Boks to win the series 2-0."

Seems reasonable

[boere wors]

https://www.keo.co.za/get-rid-of-jonker ... he-series/

"Marius Jonker must be replaced now as the TMO. Not because he is a cheat but because he was petrified to rule anything in the favour of the Springboks. He is incompetent, writes Mark Keohane.

I don’t blame Jonker for the Springboks first Test defeat against the British & Irish Lions, but my god it was embarrassing listening to Jonker crumble whenever a decision was referred his way. Even when he had to rule the Springboks try in their favour, he sounded apologetic for actually not finding something he could not rule against.

World Rugby, never make the mistake again of putting a local referee in the box for an international series.

Jonker’s biggest moment came with Willie le Roux’s try. The on-field decision was a try. He was asked if there was compelling evidence to change the decision. His response was that there was nothing ‘definitive’ but that Willie appeared to be in front.

Was he or was he not?

There was nothing ‘definitive’. His words. Not mine

.Jonker should never be a TMO again when the Springboks play

But he will because it is World Rugby’s way.

Stuff it up and we give you the next big game, as they did when Romain Poite stuffed up the third and final Test in the Lions versus All Blacks in 2017.

Where was Jonker when Tom Curry illegally scrummed into the Boks loosehead Ox Nche, on repeated television replays?

Nowhere!

Penalty Lions.

Jonker was a disgrace on Saturday night … not to South Africa but to TMO’s.

He was so out of his depth, it was as embarrassing watching it, as it will be for him for the rest of his life.

What a prick.

In a year, we will read of his heartache in feeling obliged in making the wrong decision.

His apology, every time he had to rule in favour of South Africa, was a cringe.

The Lions, this week, made a lot of South African being the TMO. They shouldn’t have. He was always going to be gold to them.

They should have been thankful.

What they don’t know about South Africans, is that (like Jonker) so many of them are so awed through insecurity that they would rather make the mistake and be applauded internationally.

Marius Jonker: You should never be allowed near a television set, let alone a rugby field.

Regardless of your nationality, you didn’t have the balls to make a rugby decision tonight because in your heart you know that Willie was not in front of the kicker and that Hamish Watson should have been carded.

You despicable coward.

Fuck You

*PS … Boks to win the series 2-0."

Proper rant by keo

[Yr Alban]

Harris for Daly only change needed.

What can the Springboks do to come back now?

Would agree, Daly was an empty shirt today.

Thought VDM had a poor game as well. Would prefer Adams or Rees-Zammit for the second test.

Genuinely confused as to how you reached this conclusion. What exactly did he do badly, or wrong? The way the Lions set out to play would probably have suited Williams or Adams more, but he did everything that was asked of him.

[Gumboot]

Thought VDM had a poor game as well. Would prefer Adams or Rees-Zammit for the second test.

Genuinely confused as to how you reached this conclusion. What exactly did he do badly, or wrong? The way the Lions set out to play would probably have suited Williams or Adams more, but he did everything that was asked of him.

Thought he was ineffectual on attack and unconvincing under the high ball. Even the much shorter Cheslin Kolbe outjumped him at times - thought that would've been one of VDM's strengths. Not sure how anyone could rate him much higher than a charitable 5/10 tbh. Time to give one of the other blokes a crack.

[Enzedder]

Jakies Takey

https://www.planetrugby.com/five-takeaw ... qQ29hw9wtE

[Yr Alban]

Thought VDM had a poor game as well. Would prefer Adams or Rees-Zammit for the second test.

Genuinely confused as to how you reached this conclusion. What exactly did he do badly, or wrong? The way the Lions set out to play would probably have suited Williams or Adams more, but he did everything that was asked of him.

Thought he was ineffectual on attack and unconvincing under the high ball. Even the much shorter Cheslin Kolbe outjumped him at times - thought that would've been one of VDM's strengths. Not sure how anyone could rate him much higher than a charitable 5/10 tbh. Time to give one of the other blokes a crack.

You must have been watching a different game. The guy I was watching got very little service, but did the best he could with what came his way. Had both hands to a high ball with the try line gaping in the 2nd minute, and made an excellent break in the 2nd half where he would have been in if he hadn’t slipped (though it would have been pulled back for an earlier knock-on anyway). He didn’t screw up under the high ball any more than anyone else did -including the ‘bomb defuser’ Liam Williams. But hey, it’s all about opinions.

[JM2K6]

Didn't he knock that one on in the 2nd minute?

Largely thought he suffered from the Lions lack of shape and cohesion, tbh.

[sockwithaticket]

Also I see Gatland's mind games have worked.

https://www.keo.co.za/get-rid-of-jonker ... he-series/

"Marius Jonker must be replaced now as the TMO. Not because he is a cheat but because he was petrified to rule anything in the favour of the Springboks. He is incompetent, writes Mark Keohane.

I don’t blame Jonker for the Springboks first Test defeat against the British & Irish Lions, but my god it was embarrassing listening to Jonker crumble whenever a decision was referred his way. Even when he had to rule the Springboks try in their favour, he sounded apologetic for actually not finding something he could not rule against.

World Rugby, never make the mistake again of putting a local referee in the box for an international series.

Jonker’s biggest moment came with Willie le Roux’s try. The on-field decision was a try. He was asked if there was compelling evidence to change the decision. His response was that there was nothing ‘definitive’ but that Willie appeared to be in front.

Was he or was he not?

There was nothing ‘definitive’. His words. Not mine

.Jonker should never be a TMO again when the Springboks play

But he will because it is World Rugby’s way.

Stuff it up and we give you the next big game, as they did when Romain Poite stuffed up the third and final Test in the Lions versus All Blacks in 2017.

Where was Jonker when Tom Curry illegally scrummed into the Boks loosehead Ox Nche, on repeated television replays?

Nowhere!

Penalty Lions.

Jonker was a disgrace on Saturday night … not to South Africa but to TMO’s.

He was so out of his depth, it was as embarrassing watching it, as it will be for him for the rest of his life.

What a prick.

In a year, we will read of his heartache in feeling obliged in making the wrong decision.

His apology, every time he had to rule in favour of South Africa, was a cringe.

The Lions, this week, made a lot of South African being the TMO. They shouldn’t have. He was always going to be gold to them.

They should have been thankful.

What they don’t know about South Africans, is that (like Jonker) so many of them are so awed through insecurity that they would rather make the mistake and be applauded internationally.

Marius Jonker: You should never be allowed near a television set, let alone a rugby field.

Regardless of your nationality, you didn’t have the balls to make a rugby decision tonight because in your heart you know that Willie was not in front of the kicker and that Hamish Watson should have been carded.

You despicable coward.

Fuck You

*PS … Boks to win the series 2-0."

Far be it from me to get in the way of a good rant, but shouldn't someone going off on the credibility of TMO's know that they can't weigh in on technical offences like a scrum penalty?

[Happyhooker]

To whoever said that they'd swap LCD for owens, stop sniffing glue. LCD was immense, owens is military medium at best.

VDM was used incorrectly today, so any abuse of him is just wrong. Also, daly's stats may be horrendous but have you actually looked at the ball he was given. There was literally no rugby played outside the 10 channel today.

I did enjoy that saffa rant about jonker posted above. Glorious, especially the 2-0 prediction

The reffing of the scrums was also appalling. Sutherland had their 3 on toast but still got penalised. There was one penalty the saffas got given where their prop was basically lying full length on the ground. (Itoje's turnover on the line was bullshit as well, knees all over the player)

Anyway, fuck it, looking forward to next week

[Certain Navigator]

The first half in particular wasn't a great advertisement for international rugby. Overall, the Lions deserved to take it because they at least played with some intent, albeit only occasionally. For the Boks, by contrast, on the rare occasions that de Klutz forgot to kick the ball, Dullard quickly made up for it.

The officiating was generally good, even if Jonker was almost having seizures when provided with incontrovertible evidence for over-turning two Boks' tries. He should also have rejected the 3rd one (clear knock-on), but that would undoubtedly have caused a spontaneous combustion episode.

The love on this thread for Itoje is over-done. Did a few showy things early on, but his overall work rate was average at best — very few (and ineffectual) carries and not many more tackles. Great player, but this match wasn't the greatest piece of evidence for it.

Basically, two rusty teams knocking five bells out of each other with the slightly less rusty one occasionally remembering to play some rugby.

[JM2K6]

Itoje hammered Etzebeth early on and was immense in defence - his tackling stats matched that of the backrow and he plundered the breakdown + put huge pressure on the halfbacks. He bailed the Lions out time and again in that first half.

[Sards]

The Boks lost....its the refs fault

[OomStruisbaai]

The first half in particular wasn't a great advertisement for international rugby. Overall, the Lions deserved to take it because they at least played with some intent, albeit only occasionally. For the Boks, by contrast, on the rare occasions that de Klutz forgot to kick the ball, Dullard quickly made up for it.

The officiating was generally good, even if Jonker was almost having seizures when provided with incontrovertible evidence for over-turning two Boks' tries. He should also have rejected the 3rd one (clear knock-on), but that would undoubtedly have caused a spontaneous combustion episode.

The love on this thread for Itoje is over-done. Did a few showy things early on, but his overall work rate was average at best — very few (and ineffectual) carries and not many more tackles. Great player, but this match wasn't the greatest piece of evidence for it.

Basically, two rusty teams knocking five bells out of each other with the slightly less rusty one occasionally remembering to play some rugby.

Obviously still but hurt from the 2019 WC?


A few posts earlier from you on your own tournament

Who's the TMO? Having a total homer whoever he is. First he insists on Dixon getting a yellow for a tackle on Black's shoulder, then he talks a clear red on Heem down to just a penalty, and finally he misses a massive forward pass from Ioane that results in 3 points for the Blues. Outrageous

Sound like an Aussie, mate?

Vokof where you come from, nOOp, Poos

[OomStruisbaai]

The Boks lost....its the refs fault

That's Keo and his likes.

Die game is oor, ons het verloor.

We lost the first one against the better team on the day, there are many reasons.

The biggest one is we lost the aerial battle. Itoje was immense,

The Lions look hungry and wanted it more.

Let's give them credit and hope our lot learn some valuable lessons.

A week is a long time in rugby.

We are fortunate to see the Lions play against our beloved Springbokke.

Bring on the 2nd test.

[Gumboot]

Thought he was ineffectual on attack and unconvincing under the high ball. Even the much shorter Cheslin Kolbe outjumped him at times - thought that would've been one of VDM's strengths. Not sure how anyone could rate him much higher than a charitable 5/10 tbh. Time to give one of the other blokes a crack.

You must have been watching a different game. The guy I was watching got very little service, but did the best he could with what came his way. Had both hands to a high ball with the try line gaping in the 2nd minute, and made an excellent break in the 2nd half where he would have been in if he hadn’t slipped (though it would have been pulled back for an earlier knock-on anyway). He didn’t screw up under the high ball any more than anyone else did -including the ‘bomb defuser’ Liam Williams. But hey, it’s all about opinions.

Sorry, but that's hardly a ringing endorsement of his performance. He was fair to middling, at best.

But Planet Rugby rated him 8 and Rugby Pass 8.5 so what do I know.

[Torquemada 1420]

Harris for Daly only change needed.

What can the Springboks do to come back now?

Would agree, Daly was an empty shirt today.

Would start with Owens. LCD can't throw for sh*t. Conan and Henshaw did bugger all but not sure there is any better options. Front row got bummed in 1st half and maybe Vunipola should swap with Sutherland.

Lions got all the rub of the ball and SA were blowing at 60 due to COVID lack of game time. Don't expect that to be the same next week.

[_Os_]

I was quite confident before this one, not massively so and didn't have any firm ideas about the score.

I'm now thinking the Boks don't have much more left to bring to the table. Add Frans Steyn to the bench or start him at 12. Maybe change Smith for an actual eightman but it's apparent the Bok coaches want a footballer with all sorts of skills (strong enough in the loose to be a backline player, strong under the high ball, tackling, strong contesting at the breakdown) who can read the game (always in the right position because they think ahead, directs other players in attack and defence). Problem is other than Vermeulen that player doesn't exist at eightman, not convinced that selecting a player in a position with few/none of the core skills for that position is the way to go, Smith is an openside. But below the starters Rassie's selections in the backrow have always been a bit odd to me. I don't get this Elstadt fascination at all.

So I'm now just hoping the Boks bring their game plan (can't change anything now), execute better and get lucky.

It didn't seem a very high quality match to me. The Lions looked like they were capable of more, and the Boks looked good but not great.

[assfly]

Congratulations Lions. Best team won it, and Itoje was simply phenominal. It was like he was born for these big games. I enjoy his battles with Faf.

I called it earlier in the week that I could see the Lions taking it in the 2nd half.

I think our starting front row actually did very well, better than the holding move that was expected of them. I would have given them 10 more minutes in the 2nd half, but nobody predicted the replacement front row to be so poor.

Kwagga is a great player, but can we just stop the experiment of him as an 8 right now. I'd start Marco at 8 next week, we need some serious beef and someone with a much stronger ground game.

I thought DdA and Am looked in great form, just a pity they didn't get more ball.

But wow, did we lose the aerial battle. I agree with Blake that there is merit to our kicking game, as when we win the ball back it feeds the momentum that the Boks are looking for. But we were thoroughly found out today. I wonder if they need to consider Nkosi who is so good under the high ball.

Pressure is on us now.

[Sards]

Congratulations Lions. Best team won it, and Itoje was simply phenominal. It was like he was born for these big games. I enjoy his battles with Faf.

I called it earlier in the week that I could see the Lions taking it in the 2nd half.

I think our starting front row actually did very well, better than the holding move that was expected of them. I would have given them 10 more minutes in the 2nd half, but nobody predicted the replacement front row to be so poor.

Kwagga is a great player, but can we just stop the experiment of him as an 8 right now. I'd start Marco at 8 next week, we need some serious beef and someone with a much stronger ground game.

I thought DdA and Am looked in great form, just a pity they didn't get more ball.

But wow, did we lose the aerial battle. I agree with Blake that there is merit to our kicking game, as when we win the ball back it feeds the momentum that the Boks are looking for. But we were thoroughly found out today. I wonder if they need to consider Nkosi who is so good under the high ball.

Pressure is on us now.

The kicking game is soooooo 2007. Only for exiting your 22 really. It is not going to work with a tiny winger like Kolbe anyway. It was tried after 2007 and failed in 2011. Everyone forgot about it in 2019 when Rassie copied it and won that RWC. Trick is to grow the team from that. Not play for a wing and a prayer every game thereafter.

[assfly]

The kicking game is soooooo 2007. Only for exiting your 22 really. It is not going to work with a tiny winger like Kolbe anyway. It was tried after 2007 and failed in 2011. Everyone forgot about it in 2019 when Rassie copied it and won that RWC. Trick is to grow the team from that. Not play for a wing and a prayer every game thereafter.

I don't like it, but there is no denying it is effective. Look how we kicked against Wales in the RWC semi, which had similarities to yesterday's game. The big difference was our inability to win the kicks back.

I don't think it's a matter of a wing and a prayer. Rassie's gameplan is all about momentum. Even if we lose the aerial battle, we normally put the opposition under such pressure that their exit is poor. Momentum works both with and without the ball. But in yesterday's case we both lost the aerial battle and failed to put them under pressure which killed our momentum and aided theirs.

[_Os_]

The Boks were kicking more in this one and the SA A match, because the Lions have been defending with a lot of players up in the line and sometimes just one sweeper, there's a lot of space in behind them. It can work, but it's also not hard for the Lions to just drop their wingers back a bit deeper.

And this is where I reckon the Boks may have fucked up (it would take a second viewing to be sure and I'm not sure I'm up to it). As soon as the kicking forces the opponent to drop players back to cover the space, you have to switch to passing and running, not keep dementedly kicking. Needed to hammer the line a bit more in the second half.

[assfly]

Considering the amount of penalties we won, I would have loved to have seen us kick to the corner and go for the lineout and a drive.

[OomStruisbaai]

Vok Ox, why in the world would you want Frans Steyn. He is poor since lock down.

Agree with AF regarding van Staden. We can't afford to not playing a genuine 6 against the Lions.

Pollard field a lot of high kicks in the first half but disappear in the 2nd

[OomStruisbaai]

Considering the amount of penalties we won, I would have loved to have seen us kick to the corner and go for the lineout and a drive.

Our lineout drive was kak. Itoje disrupt it every time.