NPR

C69 wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:46 am

shaggy wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:34 am I should imagine many see the Lab-LD pact as a potential way to defeat PR and push Cons to irrelevance.

Could work until ego’s get in the way.

No way will there be a formal pact tbh. The way the vote for Labour directly transfered to the LDs in Tiverton will be worrying.
I doubt even Tory voters are scared of Starmer in a way they were of Corbyn.
The hatred of Boris is getting more tangible by the day. Every Minister who stays loyal and defends his integrity is laughed and and when in punlic now, Boris is booed.

Keep calling it mid term blues. Boris will have worse to come when the Parliamentary Standards Committee starts their investigation.

It's gonna be a rocky road.

The Tory Cultists just don't get it.
There may even come a tipping point where demonising striling workers will not cut it.
The Mail even blamed Labour for the Rail strike earlier this week. 12 fecking years the Tories have been in government

C69 wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:46 am

shaggy wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:34 am I should imagine many see the Lab-LD pact as a potential way to defeat PR and push Cons to irrelevance.

Could work until ego’s get in the way.

No way will there be a formal pact tbh. The way the vote for Labour directly transfered to the LDs in Tiverton will be worrying.
I doubt even Tory voters are scared of Starmer in a way they were of Corbyn.
The hatred of Boris is getting more tangible by the day. Every Minister who stays loyal and defends his integrity is laughed and and when in punlic now, Boris is booed.

The Tories face going into a GE with a Party leader who is so toxic, I can see him losing his own seat.

The public aren't cooperating, & forgetting Partygate, & all the other shit

So the new line seems to be "dishonest pact/voting"...

Wish I had a Lord Brownlow to fund all my ludicrous whims!

An interesting story in the Times (paywall) this morning, that Boris Johnson planned to spend £150,000 on buying a treehouse for his son Wilf at Chequers.
The newspaper has been told that the PM and his wife, Carrie, wanted to build the treehouse in autumn 2020, and it would have been financed by Lord Brownlow.

£150k for a fucking treehouse? But then with wallpaper at £600 a roll I suppose the costs would mount up

tabascoboy wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:58 am So the new line seems to be "dishonest pact/voting"...

The Tories really are rattled about the nudge and a wink voting pack.

Wait until she finds out they bribed the DUP with £1.5 billion...

SaintK wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:14 am Wish I had a Lord Brownlow to fund all my ludicrous whims!

An interesting story in the Times (paywall) this morning, that Boris Johnson planned to spend £150,000 on buying a treehouse for his son Wilf at Chequers.
The newspaper has been told that the PM and his wife, Carrie, wanted to build the treehouse in autumn 2020, and it would have been financed by Lord Brownlow.

£150k for a fucking treehouse? But then with wallpaper at £600 a roll I suppose the costs would mount up

Those champagne lifts don't come cheap

Insane_Homer wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:44 am Wait until she finds out they bribed the DUP with £1.5 billion...

Or the pact they made with the Brexit party not to stand in any of the seats the Tories held.

It's funny how scared they are. Fraser Nelson has been tweeting about it for a while. The Tories are terrified of the Lib Dems and Lab in a coalition bringing PR in instead of FPTP and ending the Tories.

Oliver Dowden the chief architect of the culture wars policy resigning is painted as the wrong man gone but he is a good person to resign for the Tories long term if they stop with the wedge nonsense. They need to start being reconciliatory as most people don't care about wedge issues they care about the price of food and fuel.

I like neeps wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:36 am

Insane_Homer wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:44 am Wait until she finds out they bribed the DUP with £1.5 billion...

Or the pact they made with the Brexit party not to stand in any of the seats the Tories held.

It's funny how scared they are. Fraser Nelson has been tweeting about it for a while. The Tories are terrified of the Lib Dems and Lab in a coalition bringing PR in instead of FPTP and ending the Tories.

Oliver Dowden the chief architect of the culture wars policy resigning is painted as the wrong man gone but he is a good person to resign for the Tories long term if they stop with the wedge nonsense. They need to start being reconciliatory as most people don't care about wedge issues they care about the price of food and fuel.

It would be very interesting to see how the political landscape would change if PR was introduced. The LDs would certainly benefit but it could also see the rise of parties on the far right/left as there'd no longer be such a case for 'broad church' parties.

Ovals wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:18 pm

It would be very interesting to see how the political landscape would change if PR was introduced. The LDs would certainly benefit but it could also see the rise of parties on the far right/left as there'd no longer be such a case for 'broad church' parties.

This already happens, to a degree, see the buying of the DUP vote in May's parliament, this wasn't the first time they did it either, John Major did a lot of horse trading with them in order to win votes in the Commons.

I used to be against PR because of this, but I've changed my mind, a consensus has to be reached and the fringe extremes are very unlikely to wield power

I don’t know what’s wrong with multiple transferable voting in a constituency; unlike PR it wouldn’t mean the BNP getting seats on 5% support, but it would make a new non-extreme party (or independent candidates) far more viable, and would save us from having to vote tactically.

Ovals wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:18 pm

I like neeps wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:36 am

Insane_Homer wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:44 am Wait until she finds out they bribed the DUP with £1.5 billion...

Or the pact they made with the Brexit party not to stand in any of the seats the Tories held.

It's funny how scared they are. Fraser Nelson has been tweeting about it for a while. The Tories are terrified of the Lib Dems and Lab in a coalition bringing PR in instead of FPTP and ending the Tories.

Oliver Dowden the chief architect of the culture wars policy resigning is painted as the wrong man gone but he is a good person to resign for the Tories long term if they stop with the wedge nonsense. They need to start being reconciliatory as most people don't care about wedge issues they care about the price of food and fuel.

It would be very interesting to see how the political landscape would change if PR was introduced. The LDs would certainly benefit but it could also see the rise of parties on the far right/left as there'd no longer be such a case for 'broad church' parties.

Although the impact of PR would depend to some extent on which system was used, there is little doubt that the main parties would have fewer seats, and fringe parties would gain seats. For example, if PR had been in place in 2015, UKIP would have been the third largest party in parliament with 83 seats, rather than the one they actually ended up with.

However, while PR would give a representative voice to more extreme minority groups, that’s probably preferable to them taking over and subverting the mainstream parties, as the Brexiteers have done with the Tories.

Lobby wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:00 pm

Ovals wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:18 pm

I like neeps wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:36 am

Or the pact they made with the Brexit party not to stand in any of the seats the Tories held.

It's funny how scared they are. Fraser Nelson has been tweeting about it for a while. The Tories are terrified of the Lib Dems and Lab in a coalition bringing PR in instead of FPTP and ending the Tories.

Oliver Dowden the chief architect of the culture wars policy resigning is painted as the wrong man gone but he is a good person to resign for the Tories long term if they stop with the wedge nonsense. They need to start being reconciliatory as most people don't care about wedge issues they care about the price of food and fuel.

It would be very interesting to see how the political landscape would change if PR was introduced. The LDs would certainly benefit but it could also see the rise of parties on the far right/left as there'd no longer be such a case for 'broad church' parties.

Although the impact of PR would depend to some extent on which system was used, there is little doubt that the main parties would have fewer seats, and fringe parties would gain seats. For example, if PR had been in place in 2015, UKIP would have been the third largest party in parliament with 83 seats, rather than the one they actually ended up with.

However, while PR would give a representative voice to more extreme minority groups, that’s probably preferable to them taking over and subverting the mainstream parties, as the Brexiteers have done with the Tories.

Not even just within parties - the ERG/corbyn etc. But, UKIP managed to force the biggest change in the British constitution in the last 20 years and only had 1 MP elected.

Mahoney wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:57 pm I don’t know what’s wrong with multiple transferable voting in a constituency; unlike PR it wouldn’t mean the BNP getting seats on 5% support, but it would make a new non-extreme party (or independent candidates) far more viable, and would save us from having to vote tactically.

I don't see why the BNP should not have 5% of seats if
- 5% of voters polled that way
- and the party is not breaking any laws

FWIW, the Tories are hardly that many steps removed from the BNP anyway.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:04 pm

Mahoney wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:57 pm I don’t know what’s wrong with multiple transferable voting in a constituency; unlike PR it wouldn’t mean the BNP getting seats on 5% support, but it would make a new non-extreme party (or independent candidates) far more viable, and would save us from having to vote tactically.

I don't see why the BNP should not have 5% of seats if
- 5% of voters polled that way
- and the party is not breaking any laws

FWIW, the Tories are hardly that many steps removed from the BNP anyway.

How dare you! they are the ENP.

Don't worry folks, the Tories are really listening, & they will change

As the unhappiness inside the Conservative party continues after their byelection defeats on Friday, some of the party’s MPs are blaming the women who reported Neil Parish for watching pornography in the Commons chamber.

The i reports one saying: “Parish shouldn’t have resigned.

“He should have just gone away with his wife for a few weeks and then come back to the job. I don’t know why the girls had to speak out like that.”

Another suggested the witnesses would “feel like a turd in the swimming pool”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... rikes-live

Torquemada 1420 wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:04 pm

Mahoney wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:57 pm I don’t know what’s wrong with multiple transferable voting in a constituency; unlike PR it wouldn’t mean the BNP getting seats on 5% support, but it would make a new non-extreme party (or independent candidates) far more viable, and would save us from having to vote tactically.

I don't see why the BNP should not have 5% of seats if
- 5% of voters polled that way
- and the party is not breaking any laws

FWIW, the Tories are hardly that many steps removed from the BNP anyway.

I agree it's probable a lot of mess could've been avoided if the BNP and then UKIP had seats in Westminster, and made all their arguments over years through the 2000s and 2010s. Rather than holding the 2016 referendum and not even discussing the issues at any length or depth beforehand. There's a BNP election broadcast from the late 90s on Youtube, that's more or less the Tory platform now.

Any electoral system balances accountability (directly electing the MP) and proportionality (MPs in proportion to the votes). The two are in tension like a seesaw, less of one means more of the other. Some people (guessing Mahoney among them) value the direct accountability more. But a lot of the accountability disappears from FPTP when the reality is factored in: candidate selection by parties (candidate lists often dictated from the centre), safe seats, voter apathy so deep they're unaware who their MP even is.

Constituencies are deeply entrenched in the UK's political culture. I think the Scottish parliament elections would be a good model for UK general elections. Half the seats would remain constituency FPTP seats, the other half would be elected from a regional PR list. There's some advantages to the PR seats being regional, tying them to a smaller area means you could use the existing recall mechanism to exercise some accountability over them (but it's a seesaw so you lose some proportionality). It also doesn't create a constitutional problem a pure PR system would, which would turn Westminster into an even more English parliament, because Scotland/Wales/NI could be given a larger allocation of regional PR list seats to maintain their representation.

The UK's electoral system wasn't supposed to accommodate the amount of parties that are winning seats now. If nothing changes there's going to be some of the things which can be disadvantages of PR (many parties and coalitions), but in a FPTP system where parties have power potentially wildly disproportionate to their strength (DUP) and even stable coalitions are likely to see the weaker party punished (Lib Dems).

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:04 pm Don't worry folks, the Tories are really listening, & they will change

As the unhappiness inside the Conservative party continues after their byelection defeats on Friday, some of the party’s MPs are blaming the women who reported Neil Parish for watching pornography in the Commons chamber.

The i reports one saying: “Parish shouldn’t have resigned.

“He should have just gone away with his wife for a few weeks and then come back to the job. I don’t know why the girls had to speak out like that.”

Another suggested the witnesses would “feel like a turd in the swimming pool”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... rikes-live

They really, “get it”.

Lobby wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:00 pm

Ovals wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:18 pm

I like neeps wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:36 am

Or the pact they made with the Brexit party not to stand in any of the seats the Tories held.

It's funny how scared they are. Fraser Nelson has been tweeting about it for a while. The Tories are terrified of the Lib Dems and Lab in a coalition bringing PR in instead of FPTP and ending the Tories.

Oliver Dowden the chief architect of the culture wars policy resigning is painted as the wrong man gone but he is a good person to resign for the Tories long term if they stop with the wedge nonsense. They need to start being reconciliatory as most people don't care about wedge issues they care about the price of food and fuel.

It would be very interesting to see how the political landscape would change if PR was introduced. The LDs would certainly benefit but it could also see the rise of parties on the far right/left as there'd no longer be such a case for 'broad church' parties.

Although the impact of PR would depend to some extent on which system was used, there is little doubt that the main parties would have fewer seats, and fringe parties would gain seats. For example, if PR had been in place in 2015, UKIP would have been the third largest party in parliament with 83 seats, rather than the one they actually ended up with.

However, while PR would give a representative voice to more extreme minority groups, that’s probably preferable to them taking over and subverting the mainstream parties, as the Brexiteers have done with the Tories.

The system in use in Scotland and Wales, with constituency and regional MPs is, I think, very good. Still have local representation and you need 6-7% (sometimes more) to break through and get a seat in a regional list.

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:04 pm Don't worry folks, the Tories are really listening, & they will change

As the unhappiness inside the Conservative party continues after their byelection defeats on Friday, some of the party’s MPs are blaming the women who reported Neil Parish for watching pornography in the Commons chamber.

The i reports one saying: “Parish shouldn’t have resigned.

“He should have just gone away with his wife for a few weeks and then come back to the job. I don’t know why the girls had to speak out like that.”

Another suggested the witnesses would “feel like a turd in the swimming pool”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... rikes-live

This is the thing we have to remember and impress upon those in our lives tempted to vote Tory again. Current Tory MPs are disatisfied with the sleaze and corruption of Johnson's cabinet/government only because it's beginning to hurt their electoral chances. They believe they should be able to do as they like without repercussion and if the litany of objectionable things had stayed out of the public eye they wouldn't have come close to giving a shit and they have been voting in favour of retrogressive legislation this whole time while we're distracted by the general awfulness of Johnson and chums.

sockwithaticket wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:06 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:04 pm Don't worry folks, the Tories are really listening, & they will change

As the unhappiness inside the Conservative party continues after their byelection defeats on Friday, some of the party’s MPs are blaming the women who reported Neil Parish for watching pornography in the Commons chamber.

The i reports one saying: “Parish shouldn’t have resigned.

“He should have just gone away with his wife for a few weeks and then come back to the job. I don’t know why the girls had to speak out like that.”

Another suggested the witnesses would “feel like a turd in the swimming pool”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... rikes-live

This is the thing we have to remember and impress upon those in our lives tempted to vote Tory again. Current Tory MPs are disatisfied with the sleaze and corruption of Johnson's cabinet/government only because it's beginning to hurt their electoral chances. They believe they should be able to do as they like without repercussion and if the litany of objectionable things had stayed out of the public eye they wouldn't have come close to giving a shit and they have been voting in favour of retrogressive legislation this whole time while we're distracted by the general awfulness of Johnson and chums.

Many true words. But as long as the major media outlets pull a story that BJ tried to push a job for his latest erotic interest (what’s that called when you pay for sex….escapes me) then the vast populace will be influenced by what they hear every day. Advertising works after all.

PCPhil wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:12 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:06 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:04 pm Don't worry folks, the Tories are really listening, & they will change




https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... rikes-live

This is the thing we have to remember and impress upon those in our lives tempted to vote Tory again. Current Tory MPs are disatisfied with the sleaze and corruption of Johnson's cabinet/government only because it's beginning to hurt their electoral chances. They believe they should be able to do as they like without repercussion and if the litany of objectionable things had stayed out of the public eye they wouldn't have come close to giving a shit and they have been voting in favour of retrogressive legislation this whole time while we're distracted by the general awfulness of Johnson and chums.

Many true words. But as long as the major media outlets pull a story that BJ tried to push a job for his latest erotic interest (what’s that called when you pay for sex….escapes me) then the vast populace will be influenced by what they hear every day. Advertising works after all.

How is Jennifer Arcuri's horizontal IT Training business going ?

I noticed that the Princess accompanied the curb crawler on this latest overseas visit; I wonder if she trusts him out of her sight in any other ones ?

Oops

Aren't there a couple more Tory seats that could turn into more by-elections ?

Welsh guy who crashed his car, & ran away; & the bloke doing lines of dandruff ?

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:03 pm Aren't there a couple more Tory seats that could turn into more by-elections ?

Welsh guy who crashed his car, & ran away; & the bloke doing lines of dandruff ?

There’s one arrested for rape.

sefton wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:10 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:03 pm Aren't there a couple more Tory seats that could turn into more by-elections ?

Welsh guy who crashed his car, & ran away; & the bloke doing lines of dandruff ?

There’s one arrested for rape.

Pffff, she obviously asked for it

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:11 pm

sefton wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:10 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:03 pm Aren't there a couple more Tory seats that could turn into more by-elections ?

Welsh guy who crashed his car, & ran away; & the bloke doing lines of dandruff ?

There’s one arrested for rape.

Pffff, she obviously asked for it

Bit of an assumption that the victim is a woman. The state of the Tories it'd be a surprise if they were only fucking mammals.

Crash669 wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:28 am

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:11 pm

sefton wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:10 pm

There’s one arrested for rape.

Pffff, she obviously asked for it

Bit of an assumption that the victim is a woman. The state of the Tories it'd be a surprise if they were only fucking mammals.

It’s already been revealed that the accuser is male: “ The Tory MP arrested this week on suspicion of rape was accused by a male politician who was in his teens when they met, it has been reported. ”

Lobby wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:33 am

Crash669 wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:28 am

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:11 pm

Pffff, she obviously asked for it

Bit of an assumption that the victim is a woman. The state of the Tories it'd be a surprise if they were only fucking mammals.

It’s already been revealed that the accuser is male: “ The Tory MP arrested this week on suspicion of rape was accused by a male politician who was in his teens when they met, it has been reported. ”

Has he been suspended? And will he be around for Boris and his third term.
3 terms eh. The man is truly off his gord

Also talks of some Tory MPs ready to defect, although that's according to Labour sources.

David Lammy saying on the TV today no party of government would be seen on the picket lines. Stupid for two reasons:

(1) public support is actually with the strikers according to polling. People are sick of rip off rail fares and our train companies being used as an ATM for foreign investors using our railways to subsidise theirs. Their policy on the strikes is basically begging the right wing press not to blame them. Newsflash for Sir Beers and the labour strategists. Look at the mail's relentless pursuit of Sir Beers after Delingpole jnr trespassed to get a picture of Starmer drinking a beer. They will literally not support unless they becoming embarrassingly out of public lockstep (see the sun in Scotland dabbling with the SNP).

(2) there's going to be a lot more strikes this year. Labour can't run scared of this because the tories and their press puppeteers might somehow pin it on labour. Running scared of strikes, running scared of the Brexit mess. Is there anything they have a credible and bold vision on? No.

Lib Dems saying get the army in to sort out the rail strikes. Utter balony. Are the army going to become barristers, teachers, care workers, and nurses too?

It's a shame with the government in such a bad state there's no opposition with any vision for the country. But Labour not supporting people watching their already not great living standards being eroded further begs the question of what is the point in them as a party. Conservatives without the corruption?

I like neeps wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:56 am David Lammy saying on the TV today no party of government would be seen on the picket lines. Stupid for two reasons:

(1) public support is actually with the strikers according to polling. People are sick of rip off rail fares and our train companies being used as an ATM for foreign investors using our railways to subsidise theirs. Their policy on the strikes is basically begging the right wing press not to blame them. Newsflash for Sir Beers and the labour strategists. Look at the mail's relentless pursuit of Sir Beers after Delingpole jnr trespassed to get a picture of Starmer drinking a beer. They will literally not support unless they becoming embarrassingly out of public lockstep (see the sun in Scotland dabbling with the SNP).

(2) there's going to be a lot more strikes this year. Labour can't run scared of this because the tories and their press puppeteers might somehow pin it on labour. Running scared of strikes, running scared of the Brexit mess. Is there anything they have a credible and bold vision on? No.

Lib Dems saying get the army in to sort out the rail strikes. Utter balony. Are the army going to become barristers, teachers, care workers, and nurses too?

It's a shame with the government in such a bad state there's no opposition with any vision for the country. But Labour not supporting people watching their already not great living standards being eroded further begs the question of what is the point in them as a party. Conservatives without the corruption?

The ‘get the army in’ thing is always the comment of morons. I’m sure there are a lot of squaddies who are trained in how to operate railway signalling systems just sitting in the barracks waiting for the call.

Biffer wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:06 am

I like neeps wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:56 am David Lammy saying on the TV today no party of government would be seen on the picket lines. Stupid for two reasons:

(1) public support is actually with the strikers according to polling. People are sick of rip off rail fares and our train companies being used as an ATM for foreign investors using our railways to subsidise theirs. Their policy on the strikes is basically begging the right wing press not to blame them. Newsflash for Sir Beers and the labour strategists. Look at the mail's relentless pursuit of Sir Beers after Delingpole jnr trespassed to get a picture of Starmer drinking a beer. They will literally not support unless they becoming embarrassingly out of public lockstep (see the sun in Scotland dabbling with the SNP).

(2) there's going to be a lot more strikes this year. Labour can't run scared of this because the tories and their press puppeteers might somehow pin it on labour. Running scared of strikes, running scared of the Brexit mess. Is there anything they have a credible and bold vision on? No.

Lib Dems saying get the army in to sort out the rail strikes. Utter balony. Are the army going to become barristers, teachers, care workers, and nurses too?

It's a shame with the government in such a bad state there's no opposition with any vision for the country. But Labour not supporting people watching their already not great living standards being eroded further begs the question of what is the point in them as a party. Conservatives without the corruption?

The ‘get the army in’ thing is always the comment of morons. I’m sure there are a lot of squaddies who are trained in how to operate railway signalling systems just sitting in the barracks waiting for the call.

Indeed it shows the intellectual black hole in every party in this country. None of them have any policies or vision at all past don't annoy a 90 year old Australian please Rupert be nice please please.

Lammy also doesn't support the BA strike which baggage handlers aren't asking for an increase in pay they are asking for a reversal in a pay cut. In an industry who can't find enough people to hire. Lammy is against BA workers being paid what they were pre covid with drastically lower inflation because it might ruin holidays not mentioning holidays are already being ruined because airlines can't hire enough people because of a policy (no Brexit free movement) he now supports but previously was dead against because this might happen. Astounding lack of honesty.

No government should support any strike, whether not wanting to take sides, whether wanting to be able to mediate, whether not wanting to see services withdrawn. Which is very different to supporting the right to strike. It'd be childish for them to actively go out and support a strike, it's childish to want them or any opposition to do so.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:58 am No government should support any strike, whether not wanting to take sides, whether wanting to be able to mediate, whether not wanting to see services withdrawn. Which is very different to supporting the right to strike. It'd be childish for them to actively go out and support a strike, it's childish to want them or any opposition to do so.

Who said anything about the Tories supporting the strike? I must have missed Labour getting into government in the last week.

A Labour shadow minister coming out and saying people's holidays are more important than critical infrastructure workers living standards is a bad look. What do Labour stand for if not improving conditions of the low paid?

What ministers miss is inflation is going to be baked in because high energy costs are baked in because Europe has cut off a main supplier of energy and energy is the economy. Unless Europe takes a drastically different approach to Russia then this high inflation is here to stay. Labour need a plan, predictably they don't have one past appease Murdoch.

I popped on to have a look at Guido earlier.
The Torues and their acolytes seem to be shitting themselves at the thought of a Lib Lab electoral pact.
Tbh Starmer's could be a real asset in this beacuse he is so bland and inoffensive that if the Tories try and colour him in a bad light they wont be able to frighten the blue rinsers or the Libs who will turn to Labour in Marginals.
I suspect that Labour voters will now have no issue at all with switching to LD in marginals where they are 3rd.
Just like in Tiverton.
Vote Liberal get Labour isn't going to frighten anyone now that Corbyn is gone.

tabascoboy wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:49 am Also talks of some Tory MPs ready to defect, although that's according to Labour sources.

The time for crossing the Chamber must surely have passed ?

It would be damn near impossible for either Party Leader to sell to his team. They'll be a committed Brexiteer, & in the last session they'll have voted to bring in voter suppression tactics, send refugees to Rwanda, remove the right to protest & a number of other, frankly fascist policies.

It's one thing when the MP can credibly claim it's a matter of conscious, but anyone moving now is obviously only out to save their own skin !

I like neeps wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:46 pm
A Labour shadow minister coming out and saying people's holidays are more important than critical infrastructure workers living standards is a bad look. What do Labour stand for if not improving conditions of the low paid?

Upholding the status quo and defending the interests of capital.

Who is impressed by, and falls for this shit?