NPR

Jamie Ritchie is out till preseason unfortunately, I think he would have toured as captain in the summer with a view to taking over long term

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:46 pm

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:30 pm
Scotland aren't in pot 3 because of not making it out of the pool in 2019. They're in pot 3 because a vindictive WR, using a Covid-related excuse, decided to bring forward the already-ridiculously-early world rankings cut-off date to an even earlier date that meant that performances after that RWC didn't count. I don't expect that to happen again, so there will be time next time to return to pot 2.

IIRC, Japan got the slot that would have been allocated to Scotland had the draw been done the same way it always has been, that would mean being second seeds in Pool D

England
Japan
Argentina
Samoa
Americas 2

Didn’t realise that! Jesus, that stings

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:14 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:46 pm

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:30 pm
Scotland aren't in pot 3 because of not making it out of the pool in 2019. They're in pot 3 because a vindictive WR, using a Covid-related excuse, decided to bring forward the already-ridiculously-early world rankings cut-off date to an even earlier date that meant that performances after that RWC didn't count. I don't expect that to happen again, so there will be time next time to return to pot 2.

IIRC, Japan got the slot that would have been allocated to Scotland had the draw been done the same way it always has been, that would mean being second seeds in Pool D

England
Japan
Argentina
Samoa
Americas 2

Didn’t realise that! Jesus, that stings

Not only that, but getting out of that pool means facing Wales or Australia in the QF.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:45 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:14 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:46 pm

IIRC, Japan got the slot that would have been allocated to Scotland had the draw been done the same way it always has been, that would mean being second seeds in Pool D

England
Japan
Argentina
Samoa
Americas 2

Didn’t realise that! Jesus, that stings

Not only that, but getting out of that pool means facing Wales or Australia in the QF.

Just stop

Dogbert wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:24 am If not Townsend - then who ?

Exactly my thoughts but have a look on page 3 of this article lol, that list isn't exactly inspiring either bat ons who is NOT taking the job and another who isn't leaving Ireland and a crack at another URC title!!

Why Gregor is even on this article I don't know, presumably it's because of the incident last weekend!

https://www.ruck.co.uk/three-six-nation ... lace-them/

Scottish Caley Fan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:51 am

Dogbert wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:24 am If not Townsend - then who ?

Exactly my thoughts but have a look on page 3 of this article lol, that list isn't exactly inspiring either bat ons who is NOT taking the job and another who isn't leaving Ireland and a crack at another URC title!!

Why Gregor is even on this article I don't know, presumably it's because of the incident last weekend!

https://www.ruck.co.uk/three-six-nation ... lace-them/

Lancaster absolutely would take the job. What joy is winning the URC every year and internationals is a clear step up. He also played for Scotland age grades so presumably has some emotional buy in.

I bet nobody would've thought we'd have got Clermont coach Cotter when we were a total basketcase. The reality is there's 8 or 9 top international jobs and so it's always going to appeal to someone.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:30 am

Scottish Caley Fan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:51 am

Dogbert wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:24 am If not Townsend - then who ?

Exactly my thoughts but have a look on page 3 of this article lol, that list isn't exactly inspiring either bat ons who is NOT taking the job and another who isn't leaving Ireland and a crack at another URC title!!

Why Gregor is even on this article I don't know, presumably it's because of the incident last weekend!

https://www.ruck.co.uk/three-six-nation ... lace-them/

Lancaster absolutely would take the job. What joy is winning the URC every year and internationals is a clear step up. He also played for Scotland age grades so presumably has some emotional buy in.

I bet nobody would've thought we'd have got Clermont coach Cotter when we were a total basketcase. The reality is there's 8 or 9 top international jobs and so it's always going to appeal to someone.

Are we seriously considering Lancaster?

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:41 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:30 am

Scottish Caley Fan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:51 am

Exactly my thoughts but have a look on page 3 of this article lol, that list isn't exactly inspiring either bat ons who is NOT taking the job and another who isn't leaving Ireland and a crack at another URC title!!

Why Gregor is even on this article I don't know, presumably it's because of the incident last weekend!

https://www.ruck.co.uk/three-six-nation ... lace-them/

Lancaster absolutely would take the job. What joy is winning the URC every year and internationals is a clear step up. He also played for Scotland age grades so presumably has some emotional buy in.

I bet nobody would've thought we'd have got Clermont coach Cotter when we were a total basketcase. The reality is there's 8 or 9 top international jobs and so it's always going to appeal to someone.

Are we seriously considering Lancaster?

No but if Dodson called he's not going to say "sorry I'm too invested in the URC". He'd at least interview.

There are three clear camps appearing on this; the pro Townsend camp who won't hear too many bad words on him, the Townsend must go camp who are the reverse of camp 1 and the camp in the middle who think something isn't right and it needs to be sorted one way or another.

Both this senior group of players and Townsend will be forever linked as when Townsend goes it will be close to the end of some. Whether they been successful because of Townsend or vice versa will never be definitively proven. Townsend has seen a 57% win rate, these players are on an 8 year run of a 54% win rate and have seen their two coaches have the best win rates of any coach (but not individual reign - that is Geech).

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:00 am There are three clear camps appearing on this; the pro Townsend camp who won't hear too many bad words on him, the Townsend must go camp who are the reverse of camp 1 and the camp in the middle who think something isn't right and it needs to be sorted one way or another.

Both this senior group of players and Townsend will be forever linked as when Townsend goes it will be close to the end of some. Whether they been successful because of Townsend or vice versa will never be definitively proven. Townsend has seen a 57% win rate, these players are on an 8 year run of a 54% win rate and have seen their two coaches have the best win rates of any coach (but not individual reign - that is Geech).

Having seen the press conference stuff which was poor from coach and captain I'm coming round to the idea that there is something gone wrong in the squad. There is obviously a split between some senior players and the rest and the going out incident is becoming more and more unforgivable in my eyes.

I've seen some saying that, as with any organisation, the leader can stay around too long and it starts getting rotten and this seems to be happening. I don't blame one person for that, it does just happen. This might be a bit brutal, but it seems Finn is at the centre of everything that goes wrong, so I want him out. Time to move on.

Hogg should have the captaincy removed. I think he has been a brilliant captain and it obviously means so much to him, but there has to be consequences and it might actually help his game. Any slipping of standards has to stop here for the sake of the younger lads coming through and if it needs to be brutal, so be it. For me, that will do for now, Townsend deserves one more bash at a 6N and the WC with the slate at least partially cleared.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:17 am

Having seen the press conference stuff which was poor from coach and captain I'm coming round to the idea that there is something gone wrong in the squad. There is obviously a split between some senior players and the rest and the going out incident is becoming more and more unforgivable in my eyes.

My concern is people are going to focus on them going out which is a symptom rather than the "illness".

They are obviously allowed to drink in camp which is fine, but is it any surprise that we put out our worst performance of the campaign after some of the players got blootered?

I am coming round to there being a total clear out of leadership positions. Wouldn't be binning some of the players completely if they are willing to toe the line and follow the new captain (presumably Ritchie).

Edit: The more I think about it, the I am more furious at the "ripping the arse out of it" than the guys breaking covid protocol (which was clearly wrong). We had a chance to break so many tropes in that Wales game; a win in Cardiff, a win v Wales for Townsends Scotland that couldn't be spoken down about, a chance to say "yes we are contenders, at least until France" etc. This latest thing is just the ketchup on a shite sandwich that was the 6N.

Another Edit: Get FInn help with his apparent alcohol issues. If he takes it, then allow him to come back in time, if not then continue to offer him help and keep him out the picture. The lad and his family understandably have certain views about the SRU but he needs to screw the nut for his own sake.

Another Edit: Get FInn help with his apparent alcohol issues. If he takes it, then allow him to come back in time, if not then continue to offer him help and keep him out the picture. The lad and his family understandably have certain views about the SRU but he needs to screw the nut for his own sake.

100% this. Absolutely keep the door open for him to come back but he clearly has an issue and needs help, and those issues seem to be dragging others down with him which sadly happens. This is certainly not blame Finn and leave him on his own. Give him all the support he needs but remove him for a minimum period of time and I think that probably means at least a year

Good article here:
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/stuart-h ... iew-253621

SOB on a game in the AIs wrote: "They win a turnover in the middle of the field and they're all celebrating and going absolutely crazy. What they need to do is get on with it and focus on the next job. Go and beat these teams, rather than jumping around and shouting at lads... You're looking at them going, 'You haven't won anything major in the last while. Go on to the next job and go win these games'."

Every side does it at the breakdown but you could change this comment slightly and apply it to post England game and it be valid.

Is Rob Robertson the first journo to break ranks and flat out say Townsend should go?

Wonder if someone is briefing against GT (and not just Finn)?

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:15 pm Good article here:
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/stuart-h ... iew-253621

SOB on a game in the AIs wrote: "They win a turnover in the middle of the field and they're all celebrating and going absolutely crazy. What they need to do is get on with it and focus on the next job. Go and beat these teams, rather than jumping around and shouting at lads... You're looking at them going, 'You haven't won anything major in the last while. Go on to the next job and go win these games'."

Every side does it at the breakdown but you could change this comment slightly and apply it to post England game and it be valid.

Ellis Genge made some similar comments about Italy celebrating little things in games they were losing on The Good, The Bad and The Rugby last year and I want nothing more than to play him clips of him and other England team mates doing exactly the same while behind on the scoreboard.

It's a nonsense criticism. As you say, all teams do it these days. I'd prefer they didn't, but it is what it is and singling anyone out for it is because you wanted to be negative about them anyway.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:02 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:15 pm Good article here:
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/stuart-h ... iew-253621

SOB on a game in the AIs wrote: "They win a turnover in the middle of the field and they're all celebrating and going absolutely crazy. What they need to do is get on with it and focus on the next job. Go and beat these teams, rather than jumping around and shouting at lads... You're looking at them going, 'You haven't won anything major in the last while. Go on to the next job and go win these games'."

Every side does it at the breakdown but you could change this comment slightly and apply it to post England game and it be valid.

Ellis Genge made some similar comments about Italy celebrating little things in games they were losing on The Good, The Bad and The Rugby last year and I want nothing more than to play him clips of him and other England team mates doing exactly the same while behind on the scoreboard.

It's a nonsense criticism. As you say, all teams do it these days. I'd prefer they didn't, but it is what it is and singling anyone out for it is because you wanted to be negative about them anyway.

More context is needed though and I can see why players do it. In a tight game winning these small contests can often be pivotal. Imo celebrating a turnover after being camped on your try line for dozens of phases is perfectly acceptable and probably something that everyone has celebrated.

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:35 pm Is Rob Robertson the first journo to break ranks and flat out say Townsend should go?

Wonder if someone is briefing against GT (and not just Finn)?

Mark Palmer has wrote a lot of criticisms of Townsend the last few weeks. The BBC Scotland rugby podcast found it very hard to say anything positive about him last episode. ToL are also treading that line of not calling for him to go but heavily suggests that he should.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:19 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:02 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:15 pm Good article here:
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/stuart-h ... iew-253621



Every side does it at the breakdown but you could change this comment slightly and apply it to post England game and it be valid.

Ellis Genge made some similar comments about Italy celebrating little things in games they were losing on The Good, The Bad and The Rugby last year and I want nothing more than to play him clips of him and other England team mates doing exactly the same while behind on the scoreboard.

It's a nonsense criticism. As you say, all teams do it these days. I'd prefer they didn't, but it is what it is and singling anyone out for it is because you wanted to be negative about them anyway.

More context is needed though and I can see why players do it. In a tight game winning these small contests can often be pivotal. Imo celebrating a turnover after being camped on your try line for dozens of phases is perfectly acceptable and probably something that everyone has celebrated.

Agreed, but my point was that we could say that about after the England game and it rings true. Last two years, win v England in week 1 and fluff our lines v Wales. Even allowing for the red card we should be winning those games not some players "ripping the arse out it" after beating England. The team needs to be better at focusing on what comes next, by all means have a couple of beers but in the last 5 years, we've never had a live last game for a triple crown win despite at least twice having the best start and a winnable game v Wales second.

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:33 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:19 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:02 pm

Ellis Genge made some similar comments about Italy celebrating little things in games they were losing on The Good, The Bad and The Rugby last year and I want nothing more than to play him clips of him and other England team mates doing exactly the same while behind on the scoreboard.

It's a nonsense criticism. As you say, all teams do it these days. I'd prefer they didn't, but it is what it is and singling anyone out for it is because you wanted to be negative about them anyway.

More context is needed though and I can see why players do it. In a tight game winning these small contests can often be pivotal. Imo celebrating a turnover after being camped on your try line for dozens of phases is perfectly acceptable and probably something that everyone has celebrated.

Agreed, but my point was that we could say that about after the England game and it rings true. Last two years, win v England in week 1 and fluff our lines v Wales. Even allowing for the red card we should be winning those games not some players "ripping the arse out it" after beating England. The team needs to be better at focusing on what comes next, by all means have a couple of beers but in the last 5 years, we've never had a live last game for a triple crown win despite at least twice having the best start and a winnable game v Wales second.

I completely agree

I'm relieved the whole thing is over and that we've got an impossible RWC challenge next year. For the first time in years I feel very relaxed as a Scotland fan - no hope, no worry.

My emotional investment can now go to the Warriors and their heroic run to the URC knock outs, where they will inevitably end up second best against one Irish team or another.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMU39-GnUr4

Hogg comes across as a bit of a cock in this post match interview, doesnt think the opinion of the fans is important to him or the team...remember, the ones who ultimately pay his wages.

ASMO wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:24 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMU39-GnUr4

Hogg comes across as a bit of a cock in this post match interview, doesnt think the opinion of the fans is important to him or the team...remember, the ones who ultimately pay his wages.

Exeter?

ASMO wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:24 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMU39-GnUr4

Hogg comes across as a bit of a cock in this post match interview, doesnt think the opinion of the fans is important to him or the team...remember, the ones who ultimately pay his wages.

I think he'll really regret that when he calms down. He, I think more than anyone, has been integral in building that bridge between the supporters and the team over the last few years

ASMO wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:24 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMU39-GnUr4

Hogg comes across as a bit of a cock in this post match interview, doesnt think the opinion of the fans is important to him or the team...remember, the ones who ultimately pay his wages.

He definitely could have handled it better. The issues asked about were all his doing so front up and answer them.

In saying that, I'm not too fussed what gets said, it has been the shame dull shit for years.

And, the SRU should have released the news of punishment on Monday and let Hogg front up to press midweek. It coming out on Friday was just silly.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:41 pm I'm relieved the whole thing is over and that we've got an impossible RWC challenge next year. For the first time in years I feel very relaxed as a Scotland fan - no hope, no worry.

My emotional investment can now go to the Warriors and their heroic run to the URC knock outs, where they will inevitably end up second best against one Irish team or another.

That’s how I felt yesterday.

Today I’m worrying about beating Wales at home next year

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:41 pm I'm relieved the whole thing is over and that we've got an impossible RWC challenge next year. For the first time in years I feel very relaxed as a Scotland fan - no hope, no worry.

My emotional investment can now go to the Warriors and their heroic run to the URC knock outs, where they will inevitably end up second best against one Irish team or another.

I spent 2000-2012 feeling no hope and having no worry.

I'm sad that the best collection of Scottish players in the last 20 years have been crap for a year. What a waste.

I don’t want to be in the Toony out camp, but I fear I am. Because something is significantly wrong in the Scotland camp, and the fastest and most definitive way to address it is to change the coach. Everyone gets a fresh start and a (more or less) clean slate. Maybe even Russell. He isn’t going to change his ways for Toony, that much is clear, but he might for a new coach.

https://news.stv.tv/sport/six-nations-q ... tuart-hogg

FFS maybe there is something in the Townsend to be sacked rants of fans and journalists because STV Rugby journalist Mr Borthwick is also saying he's under "severe pressure" and there are "severe questions being asked about his future".

I think you can see clearly that I am in the "Townsend must stay" camp though I am not saying he's blameless in the 6N ineptness, yes his selections can be questioned, I totally get that!

I just don't see what difference sacking him is going to achieve, especially when the only realistic contenders are: Stuart Lancaster, Dan McFarland (my choice if GT goes), Jamie Joseph and perhaps Jake White (what do you guys reckon?).

This next month is going to be interesting thats for sure, it's going to be interesting to see what comes out of the tournament review, surely some rugby journalist will find out lol.

Anyway, as I'm new to club rugby I'll enjoy the Gallagher Prem and European tournaments whilst also try to watch as much URC as possible :D.

I say I'm neutral but I have a soft spot for Ulster haha.

Scottish Caley Fan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:16 am
I just don't see what difference sacking him is going to achieve, especially when the only realistic contenders are: Stuart Lancaster, Dan McFarland (my choice if GT goes), Jamie Joseph and perhaps Jake White (what do you guys reckon?).

I think that is a dangerous argument in sports teams though. If inside the SRU it has gone from "Townsend is still the right man for the job and can turn this around" to "what does sacking him achieve" then it might be closer to times up than many think.

There will always be different coaches pop up into contention. Nobody thought of Cotter or Rennie coming to Scotland.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:20 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:41 pm I'm relieved the whole thing is over and that we've got an impossible RWC challenge next year. For the first time in years I feel very relaxed as a Scotland fan - no hope, no worry.

My emotional investment can now go to the Warriors and their heroic run to the URC knock outs, where they will inevitably end up second best against one Irish team or another.

I spent 2000-2012 feeling no hope and having no worry.

I'm sad that the best collection of Scottish players in the last 20 years have been crap for a year. What a waste.

Aye, I'm sad and disappointed too - especially because it looks like the players who pulled us out of the marsh haven't instilled a culture that might give the next generation a real chance at achievement (so no O'Driscoll scenario for Scotland).

But it feels oddly comforting to be back in the early '10s mindset of any win is worth celebrating and howlers of losses against the likes of Italy and Tonga are par for the course.

I'm in the Keep Toonie In camp.

As was said elsewhere, if the players get rid of Townsend they have far too much control and what is to stop them getting rid of the next guy?

It is the players who have set that culture of "yeah fuck this, I'm just going for a sesh, see youse Tuesday"

I'd rather lose with guys who would crawl over broken glass to wear the shirt.

Scottish Caley Fan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:16 am https://news.stv.tv/sport/six-nations-q ... tuart-hogg

FFS maybe there is something in the Townsend to be sacked rants of fans and journalists because STV Rugby journalist Mr Borthwick is also saying he's under "severe pressure" and there are "severe questions being asked about his future".

I think you can see clearly that I am in the "Townsend must stay" camp though I am not saying he's blameless in the 6N ineptness, yes his selections can be questioned, I totally get that!

I just don't see what difference sacking him is going to achieve, especially when the only realistic contenders are: Stuart Lancaster, Dan McFarland (my choice if GT goes), Jamie Joseph and perhaps Jake White (what do you guys reckon?).

This next month is going to be interesting thats for sure, it's going to be interesting to see what comes out of the tournament review, surely some rugby journalist will find out lol.

Anyway, as I'm new to club rugby I'll enjoy the Gallagher Prem and European tournaments whilst also try to watch as much URC as possible :D.

I say I'm neutral but I have a soft spot for Ulster haha.

I rate Dan McFarland extremely highly.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:47 am

Scottish Caley Fan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:16 am https://news.stv.tv/sport/six-nations-q ... tuart-hogg

FFS maybe there is something in the Townsend to be sacked rants of fans and journalists because STV Rugby journalist Mr Borthwick is also saying he's under "severe pressure" and there are "severe questions being asked about his future".

I think you can see clearly that I am in the "Townsend must stay" camp though I am not saying he's blameless in the 6N ineptness, yes his selections can be questioned, I totally get that!

I just don't see what difference sacking him is going to achieve, especially when the only realistic contenders are: Stuart Lancaster, Dan McFarland (my choice if GT goes), Jamie Joseph and perhaps Jake White (what do you guys reckon?).

This next month is going to be interesting thats for sure, it's going to be interesting to see what comes out of the tournament review, surely some rugby journalist will find out lol.

Anyway, as I'm new to club rugby I'll enjoy the Gallagher Prem and European tournaments whilst also try to watch as much URC as possible :D.

I say I'm neutral but I have a soft spot for Ulster haha.

I rate Dan McFarland extremely highly.

He could bring Roddy Grant with him, just to get our own back

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:37 am I'm in the Keep Toonie In camp.

As was said elsewhere, if the players get rid of Townsend they have far too much control and what is to stop them getting rid of the next guy?

It is the players who have set that culture of "yeah fuck this, I'm just going for a sesh, see youse Tuesday"

I'd rather lose with guys who would crawl over broken glass to wear the shirt.

The players always have control, whether it's an outright mutiny (which this isn't) or just giving a percent or two less because the messages are wearing thin, they no longer enjoy it and they no longer believe in the tactics as much.

Look at Edinburgh, the players immediately responded positively to Cockers trenchant discipline and had three great seasons. Then it wore thin and they just downed tools a bit last season. And this season are revitalised with Blair. Maybe in 3-4 years they'll get bored of him too and maybe not consciously but the performances just wain a bit. But that's a natural cycle in sport. Not just sport either how many people these days stay in the same jobs with the same boss and the same company for a number of years.

The really amazing successes are Garland who got a decade and the Baxter's, McCall's of this world in the premiership.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:09 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:37 am I'm in the Keep Toonie In camp.

As was said elsewhere, if the players get rid of Townsend they have far too much control and what is to stop them getting rid of the next guy?

It is the players who have set that culture of "yeah fuck this, I'm just going for a sesh, see youse Tuesday"

I'd rather lose with guys who would crawl over broken glass to wear the shirt.

The players always have control, whether it's an outright mutiny (which this isn't) or just giving a percent or two less because the messages are wearing thin, they no longer enjoy it and they no longer believe in the tactics as much.

Look at Edinburgh, the players immediately responded positively to Cockers trenchant discipline and had three great seasons. Then it wore thin and they just downed tools a bit last season. And this season are revitalised with Blair. Maybe in 3-4 years they'll get bored of him too and maybe not consciously but the performances just wain a bit. But that's a natural cycle in sport. Not just sport either how many people these days stay in the same jobs with the same boss and the same company for a number of years.

The really amazing successes are Garland who got a decade and the Baxter's, McCall's of this world in the premiership.

For some of these guys it is 10/10+ seasons of Townsend coaching them. it is a long time with the same dominant voice for all/parts of the season.

I have seen people say "it is the coaches head on the block", but in international rugby the players only have a finite time left on that stage and it must also be frustrating for them. The breaking covid protocol is one incident, and it is the first time someone not named Finn has apparently went out their way to break some rule (or understanding). It is a symptom rather than the issue itself.

One thing that has gone way under the radar is that we once again paid compensation for a coach (Zondagh) who had contributed very little in a positive way to the game plan. That is a failure thus far and it is on Townsend as I doubt he was dropped on Townsend without agreement.

Deleted as weird duplicate of the above.

I think what annoyed me most about the press conference was Hogg saying they are keeping it amongst the important folk like the players and management.

It's got me thinking how much the players care about your average punter like us. You'd like to think it goes through their mind how much people are putting in to supporting them, or when singing the anthems in Paris being chuffed with how many Scots are there having travelled over. But maybe that's just a romantic notion and they couldn't give a fuck outside their bubble.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:37 am I'm in the Keep Toonie In camp.

As was said elsewhere, if the players get rid of Townsend they have far too much control and what is to stop them getting rid of the next guy?

It is the players who have set that culture of "yeah fuck this, I'm just going for a sesh, see youse Tuesday"

I'd rather lose with guys who would crawl over broken glass to wear the shirt.

I'm still in that camp as well.

I think it was yourself that mentioned bringing in a specialist breakdown coach which seems sensible. But it's 18months to the WC, which seems to be the line in the sand, and GT has turned things around before and deserves another chance. I think Finn has to be left out and planning done on the basis of him not being selected.

I reluctantly think Hogg has to move on from the captaincy and it given to one of the new generation, Ritchie really. The most important thing is that we protect the young guys from the fall out of this and have one of their generation leading

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:37 am
I'd rather lose with guys who would crawl over broken glass to wear the shirt.

Problem is Townsend is the only guy that can change that. I've lost, probably all, respect for Hogg but a new coach might change his attitude.

This Thistle in their newsletter suggesting what happened was:

While the events of Saturday evening (and Sunday morning) are not entirely clear, and not just due to the strength of a Why Not jaeger bomb, we know from the SRU that Stuart Hogg, Finn Russell, Ali Price, Darcy Graham, Sam Johnson and Sione Tuipulotu were all disciplined for breaching team protocols after their Six Nations victory over Italy. While the Murrayfield media machine provided few details beyond this, the Thistle spies tell us that the following is rumoured to have taken place:

The players were told they were allowed a few drinks on the plane back from Rome to celebrate Ali Price’s 50th cap , but to leave it at that, with a recovery day planned for the Sunday

The six players mentioned decided to carry on the night out after landing in Edinburgh, despite the warnings of some back room staff members, and made their way to fabled George Street institution Why Not

Gregor Townsend somehow found out about the illicit night out (perhaps he had his suspicions and was surveying the Why Not Facebook page…), rang Hogg and ordered the players back to the hotel within thirty minutes, otherwise they would be dropped for the Ireland match

Some of the players obeyed the instruction (including Hoggy) but others such as Russell and Johnson carried on with their night

We understand that although Johnson returned to the hotel at c.4am, Russell instead went to his parents house in Stirlingshire, and failed to attend the next day’s recovery session

I don't doubt they have people in camp as they got every selection correct. Makes for tough reading. I think this will drag on with reviews to be done. Think it's the end of the road for Hogg as captain.