on Brexit
Support a second EU referendum
Support revocation of Article 50 if it is the only alternative to no deal
Protect the funding Scotland receives through EU Structural and Social Funds
Maintain current and future EU standards and regulations in key areas like animal and plant health
on immigration and trade
Support creation of a 'Scottish visa'
Oppose "hostile environment"
Implement declaratory system for registration of EU citizens
Oppose the £30,000 minimum salary threshold for immigrants
Reduce cost of citizenship application process
Preserve freedom of movement with the EU
Extend the no-deal three-year 'temporary leave to remain'
Where is the overlap with UKIP?
Unicorns.
And hating people from another country.
That's what both parties have in common
If the conservatives were pro eu, SNP would back leave.
See, this is what a lot of English people just don't get, the motivation for independence isn't about England or English people, it really isn't about you at all.
The SNP used to be known as Tartan Tories, it's not about party politics either , it's about a country being responsible for its own actions and future, one of their policies is try to re-join the EU, or was, I don't know what the current situation is on this as I don't actually support the SNP.
There are some idiots in Scotland who whine about "The English", just as you get people in England talking about Sweaties and Jocks, you get fuckwits everywhere and Scotland is no different in that respect, but that is not what self-determination is about.
Unicorns.
And hating people from another country.
That's what both parties have in common
If the conservatives were pro eu, SNP would back leave.
See, this is what a lot of English people just don't get, the motivation for independence isn't about England or English people, it really isn't about you at all.
The SNP used to be known as Tartan Tories, it's not about party politics either , it's about a country being responsible for its own actions and future, one of their policies is try to re-join the EU, or was, I don't know what the current situation is on this as I don't actually support the SNP.
There are some idiots in Scotland who whine about "The English", just as you get people in England talking about Sweaties and Jocks, you get fuckwits everywhere and Scotland is no different in that respect, but that is not what self-determination is about.
I expect to see a lot more of this sort thing from the Tory/Unionist press in the lead up to the election in May next year, the polls have them spooked.
Blackford made a mistake, as soon as he realised it he apologised and took down the tweet. That is the normal course of events between adults, but it's not enough for the agenda-driven Torygraph or for MSPs from a party in opposition, seemingly.
The only ones trying to stir something up are the people using this non-story for their own ends - "MP apologises for mistake in thinking someone broke procedures during pandemic", is what happened here.
Blackford made a mistake, as soon as he realised it he apologised and took down the tweet. That is the normal course of events between adults, but it's not enough for the agenda-driven Torygraph or for MSPs from a party in opposition, seemingly.
That you think it’s perfectly normal for a high profile MP to attack an ordinary citizen publicly show just how warped the nationalist moral radar is.
See, this is what a lot of English people just don't get, the motivation for independence isn't about England or English people, it really isn't about you at all.
The SNP used to be known as Tartan Tories, it's not about party politics either , it's about a country being responsible for its own actions and future, one of their policies is try to re-join the EU, or was, I don't know what the current situation is on this as I don't actually support the SNP.
There are some idiots in Scotland who whine about "The English", just as you get people in England talking about Sweaties and Jocks, you get fuckwits everywhere and Scotland is no different in that respect, but that is not what self-determination is about.
I expect to see a lot more of this sort thing from the Tory/Unionist press in the lead up to the election in May next year, the polls have them spooked.
Blackford made a mistake, as soon as he realised it he apologised and took down the tweet. That is the normal course of events between adults, but it's not enough for the agenda-driven Torygraph or for MSPs from a party in opposition, seemingly.
The only ones trying to stir something up are the people using this non-story for their own ends - "MP apologises for mistake in thinking someone broke procedures during pandemic", is what happened here.
Ian Blackford made a mistake?
He sure did
Why didn't he just private message the photographer to find out first, instead of tweating a message that all his rabid SNP followers could get their teeth into?
Shame we don't get to see their comments isn't it.
You must be particularly naive if you believe that SNP motivation for their cause isn't based on anti English sentiment.
Blackford was hoping for more SNP bile so that his vision of an independent Scotland becomes a reality
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:04 am
by Insane_Homer
Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:50 am
You should see how efficient the Dutch are....l
You're pinning our hopes of a frictionless trading relationship on our EU trading partners
Which unfortunately is only half the equation. The assumption we'll be as prepared & efficient this side is a tad optimistic?
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:16 am
by Longshanks
Just to add
I don't have any particular affection for the Tories (or any party in truth)
I'm just not keen on groups or individuals that hate people from another country just because they come from another country
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:29 am
by Tichtheid
Longshanks wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:59 am
Ian Blackford made a mistake?
He sure did
Why didn't he just private message the photographer to find out first, instead of tweating a message that all his rabid SNP followers could get their teeth into?
Shame we don't get to see their comments isn't it.
You must be particularly naive if you believe that SNP motivation for their cause isn't based on anti English sentiment.
Blackford was hoping for more SNP bile so that his vision of an independent Scotland becomes a reality
I think you're making quite a few leaps there, to be honest.
Social media isn't a good method of taking the temperature on any subject, look at the comments in the Daily Mail or Torygraph when the subject of the SNP or independence comes up, or the twitter comments on their pieces which are filled with EDL and England First style vitriol and bile. There is no way I think that is "normal" from English people. I live in England and my children were born here.
Look, I get it, it was actually explained to me by an Englishman, he says it's nigh on impossible for someone from England, the overwhelming majority, to understand what someone from one of the other countries feels when there is a Union of those countries, in name at least.
This bit
....SNP motivation for their cause isn't based on anti English sentiment.
You have to separate "English" from, perhaps, "The System". English people have been under the yoke as much as anyone as a result of that system - I have as much in common with the people around Humberside where my in-laws live as I do with people from my home county.
People talk about the South East as being some sort of "paved with gold" panacea, but it's not, some areas of London are in a bad way, as are towns in Sussex, east and west.
However, it's still not about any of that, it's about a wish to be answerable to ourselves, the old "it's not you, it's me" break up story.
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:49 am
by Longshanks
OK
So what would you suggest was Blackford's motivation behind this tweet to the photographer and his 100k followers?
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:55 am
by Tichtheid
Longshanks wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:49 am
OK
So what would you suggest was Blackford's motivation behind this tweet to the photographer and his 100k followers?
You are asking me to guess what was in his head when he did that.
I cannot possibly do that accurately, but I'm inclined to think he was of the opinion that the guy broke guidelines during the pandemic and called him out on it.
See, this is what a lot of English people just don't get, the motivation for independence isn't about England or English people, it really isn't about you at all.
The SNP used to be known as Tartan Tories, it's not about party politics either , it's about a country being responsible for its own actions and future, one of their policies is try to re-join the EU, or was, I don't know what the current situation is on this as I don't actually support the SNP.
There are some idiots in Scotland who whine about "The English", just as you get people in England talking about Sweaties and Jocks, you get fuckwits everywhere and Scotland is no different in that respect, but that is not what self-determination is about.
I expect to see a lot more of this sort thing from the Tory/Unionist press in the lead up to the election in May next year, the polls have them spooked.
Blackford made a mistake, as soon as he realised it he apologised and took down the tweet. That is the normal course of events between adults, but it's not enough for the agenda-driven Torygraph or for MSPs from a party in opposition, seemingly.
The only ones trying to stir something up are the people using this non-story for their own ends - "MP apologises for mistake in thinking someone broke procedures during pandemic", is what happened here.
Can't back you up on this one. That is absolutely classic SNP tactics that they repeat over and over.
Longshanks wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:49 am
OK
So what would you suggest was Blackford's motivation behind this tweet to the photographer and his 100k followers?
You are asking me to guess what was in his head when he did that.
I cannot possibly do that accurately, but I'm inclined to think he was of the opinion that the guy broke guidelines during the pandemic and called him out on it.
A private message would have done the job
Instead of a public shaming of the 'English law breaker'
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:23 am
by Rhubarb & Custard
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:29 am
However, it's still not about any of that, it's about a wish to be answerable to ourselves, the old "it's not you, it's me" break up story.
Once we get nationhood at the level of individual homes do we still need to go further and actually each pick a room?
Longshanks wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:49 am
OK
So what would you suggest was Blackford's motivation behind this tweet to the photographer and his 100k followers?
You are asking me to guess what was in his head when he did that.
I cannot possibly do that accurately, but I'm inclined to think he was of the opinion that the guy broke guidelines during the pandemic and called him out on it.
A private message would have done the job
Instead of a public shaming of the 'English law breaker'
Blackford obviously didn’t know the guy had moved there months before, Blackford was guilty of not fact-checking and perhaps a bit of hubris.
It reads like you want him to be guilty of something more sinister.
This isn’t particularly unusual either, not from you particularly because I don’t know you, but this is all part of it.
Like I say, I expect a lot more and a lot worse in the coming months
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:33 am
by Paddington Bear
Blackford has a history of playing dirty, no? Kennedy certainly thought so
Blackford made a mistake, as soon as he realised it he apologised and took down the tweet. That is the normal course of events between adults, but it's not enough for the agenda-driven Torygraph or for MSPs from a party in opposition, seemingly.
That you think it’s perfectly normal for a high profile MP to attack an ordinary citizen publicly show just how warped the nationalist moral radar is.
"Attacked" is a bit strong no - strongly criticised maybe more accurate. I mean its not like he leaked his address to a scumbag intending him actual bodily harm or anything here!
You are asking me to guess what was in his head when he did that.
I cannot possibly do that accurately, but I'm inclined to think he was of the opinion that the guy broke guidelines during the pandemic and called him out on it.
A private message would have done the job
Instead of a public shaming of the 'English law breaker'
It reads like you want him to be guilty of something more sinister.
We were discussing the reason why Farage would fit in well with the SNP. A public face of respectability but hateful motivation lurks within.
UKIP had policies that sounded great, take back control and the like (not that different are they?), but ugly things also, like Breaking point posters and not wanting to live next door to Romanians. As Ruth Davidson said, Scottish independence is a noble cause to aspire to, and if that's what Scotland decide good luck to them. But there is an ugly side to the SNP just like UKIP. Open your eyes.
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:53 am
by sturginho
The fail are recycling old Yes Minister storylines?
A private message would have done the job
Instead of a public shaming of the 'English law breaker'
It reads like you want him to be guilty of something more sinister.
We were discussing the reason why Farage would fit in well with the SNP. A public face of respectability but hateful motivation lurks within.
UKIP had policies that sounded great, take back control and the like (not that different are they?), but ugly things also, like Breaking point posters and not wanting to live next door to Romanians. As Ruth Davidson said, Scottish independence is a noble cause to aspire to, and if that's what Scotland decide good luck to them. But there is an ugly side to the SNP just like UKIP. Open your eyes.
ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Sturgeon
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:16 am
by fishfoodie
Can you take the SNP hate over to the Scottish Politics thread please
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:45 am
by Longshanks
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:16 am
Can you take the SNP hate over to the Scottish Politics thread please
EU still trying to control our lives
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:54 am
by Northern Lights
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:33 am
Blackford has a history of playing dirty, no? Kennedy certainly thought so
Yep, he is seriously nasty piece of work.
He knew exactly what he was doing with his dog-whistle antics for the cyber-nat lunatics.
Poor form on anyone trying to excuse away this from him, i will have absolutely zero sympathy if the press and anyone else piles onto him
Blackford made a mistake, as soon as he realised it he apologised and took down the tweet. That is the normal course of events between adults, but it's not enough for the agenda-driven Torygraph or for MSPs from a party in opposition, seemingly.
That you think it’s perfectly normal for a high profile MP to attack an ordinary citizen publicly show just how warped the nationalist moral radar is.
"Attacked" is a bit strong no - strongly criticised maybe more accurate. I mean its not like he leaked his address to a scumbag intending him actual bodily harm or anything here!
Nope attacked in terms of cyber-bullying is very much his and their form.
That you think it’s perfectly normal for a high profile MP to attack an ordinary citizen publicly show just how warped the nationalist moral radar is.
"Attacked" is a bit strong no - strongly criticised maybe more accurate. I mean its not like he leaked his address to a scumbag intending him actual bodily harm or anything here!
Nope attacked in terms of cyber-bullying is very much his and their form.
Ah yeah I know, I wasn't trying to excuse his behaviour at all - I was more trying to knock bimbo off his high horse. I don't think he'd be as critical of Boris even though he actually did do the above.
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:58 pm
by Longshanks
Ursula telling EU leaders to compromise to get deal done.
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:06 pm
by Insane_Homer
Longshanks wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:58 pm
Ursula telling EU leaders to compromise to get deal done.
Your source?
In a downbeat assessment of progress in post-Brexit trade talks, EU chief Ursula von der Leyen warned Wednesday that any deal must not undermine the EU single market.
"We will do all in our power to reach an agreement, we're ready to be creative," she told the European Parliament, warning that Britain must agree to fair trade rules.
"But we are not ready to put into question the integrity of the single market, the main safeguard for European prosperity and wealth," the president of the European Commission said.
She repeated Brussels' warning that Britain will not enjoy the benefits of EU membership from the outside: "There will be a clear difference between being a full member of the Union, and being just a valued partner."
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:12 pm
by Yeeb
Depends of course what ‘benefits’ are being talked about by Ursula: any subsidies or grants or infrastructure building, of course the uk should not benefit from these. (I found it particularly amusing that Cornwall voted to leave, realised they wouldn’t get all their EU subsidies any more , and then say the uk govt must replace all this funding !)
Freedom of movement - ditto for most people too, at least for working and living.
But if she means benefits like quotas and tariffs and the whole ability to trade thing, then that’s probably too far to make a meaningful agreement so WTO and hard border in Ireland it is then. There is an element of indirect free rider benefits , similar to say how all of the Eu benefited from the military protection and gdp spend that US and (much lower) uk put in for decades.
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:15 pm
by Longshanks
IH why do you want my source? You usually accept anything as long as it fits your agenda
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:15 pm
by Longshanks
Ursula von der Leyen has urged EU leaders to back the Brexit trade agreement at their Brussels summit next month but warned talks with Britain could still end in no deal.
The European Commission president predicted on Wednesday that the Dec 10 EU summit, which is the latest deadline for a UK-EU deal to be done, would be crucial for Brexit.
“The European Council will be an opportunity to turn to action,” she said, ahead of the looming end-of-year no-deal deadline.
She told the heads of state and government of the remaining 27 member states to stay united and be ready to compromise if Michel Barnier secured a finalised deal after "genuine progress" was made in negotiations.
“It is when we negotiate hard, and then stick to the compromise found that we move forward fast,” she said in the European Parliament in Brussels.
“These are decisive days for negotiations with the United Kingdom. But, frankly, I cannot tell you today if in the end, there will be a deal,” she told MEPs, who must ratify the deal after it is backed by EU leaders.
Ursula von der Leyen has urged EU leaders to back the Brexit trade agreement at their Brussels summit next month but warned talks with Britain could still end in no deal.
The European Commission president predicted on Wednesday that the Dec 10 EU summit, which is the latest deadline for a UK-EU deal to be done, would be crucial for Brexit.
“The European Council will be an opportunity to turn to action,” she said, ahead of the looming end-of-year no-deal deadline.
She told the heads of state and government of the remaining 27 member states to stay united and be ready to compromise if Michel Barnier secured a finalised deal after "genuine progress" was made in negotiations.
“It is when we negotiate hard, and then stick to the compromise found that we move forward fast,” she said in the European Parliament in Brussels.
“These are decisive days for negotiations with the United Kingdom. But, frankly, I cannot tell you today if in the end, there will be a deal,” she told MEPs, who must ratify the deal after it is backed by EU leaders.
Needs a cheese metaphor to get through to our negotiation team.
Ursula von der Leyen has urged EU leaders to back the Brexit trade agreement at their Brussels summit next month but warned talks with Britain could still end in no deal.
The European Commission president predicted on Wednesday that the Dec 10 EU summit, which is the latest deadline for a UK-EU deal to be done, would be crucial for Brexit.
“The European Council will be an opportunity to turn to action,” she said, ahead of the looming end-of-year no-deal deadline.
She told the heads of state and government of the remaining 27 member states to stay united and be ready to compromise if Michel Barnier secured a finalised deal after "genuine progress" was made in negotiations.
“It is when we negotiate hard, and then stick to the compromise found that we move forward fast,” she said in the European Parliament in Brussels.
“These are decisive days for negotiations with the United Kingdom. But, frankly, I cannot tell you today if in the end, there will be a deal,” she told MEPs, who must ratify the deal after it is backed by EU leaders.
Needs a cheese metaphor to get through to our negotiation team.
Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:50 am
You should see how efficient the Dutch are....l
You're pinning our hopes of a frictionless trading relationship on our EU trading partners
Which unfortunately is only half the equation. The assumption we'll be as prepared & efficient this side is a tad optimistic?
No, I’m pinning it on the efficiency of a private sector that rarely fails us. Billions of tonnes moving around the globe and arriving at our doors or in our factories every day.
Longshanks wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:49 am
OK
So what would you suggest was Blackford's motivation behind this tweet to the photographer and his 100k followers?
You are asking me to guess what was in his head when he did that.
I cannot possibly do that accurately, but I'm inclined to think he was of the opinion that the guy broke guidelines during the pandemic and called him out on it.
Blackford made a mistake, as soon as he realised it he apologised and took down the tweet. That is the normal course of events between adults, but it's not enough for the agenda-driven Torygraph or for MSPs from a party in opposition, seemingly.
That you think it’s perfectly normal for a high profile MP to attack an ordinary citizen publicly show just how warped the nationalist moral radar is.
"Attacked" is a bit strong no - strongly criticised maybe more accurate. I mean its not like he leaked his address to a scumbag intending him actual bodily harm or anything here!
That was in the summer when he leaked Boris’s location inviting a security risk.
Re: The Brexit Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:11 pm
by Slick
Yeeb wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:12 pm
Depends of course what ‘benefits’ are being talked about by Ursula: any subsidies or grants or infrastructure building, of course the uk should not benefit from these. (I found it particularly amusing that Cornwall voted to leave, realised they wouldn’t get all their EU subsidies any more , and then say the uk govt must replace all this funding !)
Freedom of movement - ditto for most people too, at least for working and living.
But if she means benefits like quotas and tariffs and the whole ability to trade thing, then that’s probably too far to make a meaningful agreement so WTO and hard border in Ireland it is then. There is an element of indirect free rider benefits , similar to say how all of the Eu benefited from the military protection and gdp spend that US and (much lower) uk put in for decades.
Wasn't that part of the leave deal, that EU funding would be replaced by our own UK funding from all the cash we would save?
