The Springboks vs British & Irish Lions 1st Test Thread

[_Os_]

Considering the amount of penalties we won, I would have loved to have seen us kick to the corner and go for the lineout and a drive.

Forget penalties. With the Lions starting hooker in the lineout form he was in the first half. The Boks should've kicked from hand into the stands more, to force Lions lineouts. We can expect Ken Owens to start in the second test unfortunately.

[Sards]

The kicking game is soooooo 2007. Only for exiting your 22 really. It is not going to work with a tiny winger like Kolbe anyway. It was tried after 2007 and failed in 2011. Everyone forgot about it in 2019 when Rassie copied it and won that RWC. Trick is to grow the team from that. Not play for a wing and a prayer every game thereafter.

I don't like it, but there is no denying it is effective. Look how we kicked against Wales in the RWC semi, which had similarities to yesterday's game. The big difference was our inability to win the kicks back.

I don't think it's a matter of a wing and a prayer. Rassie's gameplan is all about momentum. Even if we lose the aerial battle, we normally put the opposition under such pressure that their exit is poor. Momentum works both with and without the ball. But in yesterday's case we both lost the aerial battle and failed to put them under pressure which killed our momentum and aided theirs.

Biggest problem yesterday was replacing the front row so early. They were arrogant and wanted to destroy the Lions forwards and make a big statement. It backfired terribly. Not a single bomb squad player added any value. It was strange because most of them play together in a provincial setup so it's not like they met for the first time. And the starting squad had already softened up the Lions and got a decent lead. When Kittsie came on and his first touch he bellyflopped behind the advantage line I suspected we were in trouble. And then they could not dominate the scrums and those forwards were more used to doing rolling mauls than countering it. It was game over. The first half showed what we can do. We needed some better ball carriers to come on at the change. Why oh why Rassie persists with Elstadt just blows my mind. He is vokken useless. And the twins will rightly tell Rassie to vok off after twice now being dissed by Rassie for his old pels. Rassie needs to decide whether he is building the side he couldn't create at the Stormers or whether he is building a national side . The sidelining of Fassi with smoke and mirrors was the perfect example of this. What better player is there to take over from Kolbe who Was struggling or our fullback that was injured. Great under the high ball and full of pace. Ja. Some deep thinking required from the coaches and I would even suggest that Rassie has dug himself into a hole here and he has got to make some magic happen here happen with the players he has favored. Problem is. He only has 1 more chance. That's it. So its going to be a very interesting week.

[_Os_]

Vok Ox, why in the world would you want Frans Steyn.

A ridiculously strong big game player. 3 RWCs, never lost a RWC match he's played in. One previous Lions series, won the tests he started.

I'm guessing he wasn't ready. He makes the bench minimum. Can't think of many other fit players that can be added. Reinach on the bench maybe.

It's basically going to be same again and try to do it better.

[Sards]

Vok Ox, why in the world would you want Frans Steyn.

A ridiculously strong big game player. 3 RWCs, never lost a RWC match he's played in. One previous Lions series, won the tests he started.

I'm guessing he wasn't ready. He makes the bench minimum. Can't think of many other fit players that can be added. Reinach on the bench maybe.

It's basically going to be same again and try to do it better.

I would definitely include Frans as he is there. I would also include Fassi and Reinach. Herschel looked like a deer in the headlights yesterday

[Sards]

As one pundit mentioned...the Springboks managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.....with their replacements

[ASMO]

Problem with the Boks is that if plan A fails (Kick, chase, pressure defence and bully the forwards), they continue to try plan A as there is no plan B

[OomStruisbaai]

Vok Ox, why in the world would you want Frans Steyn.

A ridiculously strong big game player. 3 RWCs, never lost a RWC match he's played in. One previous Lions series, won the tests he started.

I'm guessing he wasn't ready. He makes the bench minimum. Can't think of many other fit players that can be added. Reinach on the bench maybe.

It's basically going to be same again and try to do it better.

I would definitely include Frans as he is there. I would also include Fassi and Reinach. Herschel looked like a deer in the headlights yesterday

Both of you don't watch local rugby. Frans is fat, slow, can't kick, catch, tried and tested all season by the Cheetahs.

[OomStruisbaai]

Problem with the Boks is that if plan A fails (Kick, chase, pressure defence and bully the forwards), they continue to try plan A as there is no plan B

True. It's print in our DNA from 7 year olds

[Gumboot]

As one pundit mentioned...the Springboks managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.....with their replacements

Nah, that suggests they were the dominant team throughout but somehow blew it at the death. Their 9-point HT lead got some of your compatriots very excited indeed, thinking the Boks were destined for a comfortable win. But then they were comprehensively outplayed for much of the second half.

[sorCrer]

[Sandstorm]

Most Bok phases before we kicked: 4. Fucking 4 phases. Like watching a bloody soccer team.

[Sards]

Give the ref a vokken break......

[Sards]

Most Bok phases before we kicked: 4. Fucking 4 phases. Like watching a bloody soccer team.

[Sandstorm]

Give the ref a vokken break......

If Willie got injured, we could have had 65 mins of 5Bar.

[sorCrer]

Give the ref a vokken break......

If Willie got injured, we could have had 65 mins of 5Bar.

Willie was injured and left the field.

[Sandstorm]

I forgot Watson was also a sub. My bad.

[boere wors]

[

If Willie got injured, we could have had 65 mins of 5Bar.

Why is Willemse called 5bar?

[Gumboot]

Yellow.

[OomStruisbaai]

[

If Willie got injured, we could have had 65 mins of 5Bar.

Why is Willemse called 5bar?

Ask Chillie. It's the amount WP pay him. If we scored after his heroics in the last minute, he could add another 0 to his 5 bar pay. Elstadt vok it up.

[boere wors]

[

If Willie got injured, we could have had 65 mins of 5Bar.

Why is Willemse called 5bar?

Ask Chillie. It's the amount WP pay him. If we scored after his heroics in the last minute, he could add another 0 to his 5 bar pay. Elstadt vok it up.

Ah ok.
Yeah who else but Elstadt could have lost that ball

[Big D]

The laws, or the way they are applied for this sort of tackle are a bit silly.

A lot of refs would say he lands on his elbow so it is penalty only. A lot would say yellow. I'd have given a yellow but many refs wouldn't.

If he hadn't stuck his elbow out he'd have landed on his shoulder or head and it would have been a card.

[OomStruisbaai]

Why is Willemse called 5bar?

Ask Chillie. It's the amount WP pay him. If we scored after his heroics in the last minute, he could add another 0 to his 5 bar pay. Elstadt vok it up.

Ah ok.
Yeah who else but Elstadt could have lost that ball

If we didn't had the alcohol ban, I would thrown my Castle to the TV.

[Slick]

He was very lucky not to get a yellow IMO

Edit: I hate all the pre game attempts at influencing refs, but Gatland undoubtedly got into the TMO’s head

[sorCrer]

The laws, or the way they are applied for this sort of tackle are a bit silly.

A lot of refs would say he lands on his elbow so it is penalty only. A lot would say yellow. I'd have given a yellow but many refs wouldn't.

If he hadn't stuck his elbow out he'd have landed on his shoulder or head and it would have been a card.

Whether he sticks his elbow out or anything else us of no consequence. As soon as he is beyond horizontal it's a card. Noting that Willie had to leave the field.

[Uncle fester]

Like it as not but PSDT was involved in that as well.

[Big D]

The laws, or the way they are applied for this sort of tackle are a bit silly.

A lot of refs would say he lands on his elbow so it is penalty only. A lot would say yellow. I'd have given a yellow but many refs wouldn't.

If he hadn't stuck his elbow out he'd have landed on his shoulder or head and it would have been a card.

Whether he sticks his elbow out or anything else us of no consequence. As soon as he is beyond horizontal it's a card. Noting that Willie had to leave the field.

That isn't what it says in the laws.

[boere wors]

It is a big problem that we don't have a decent 8 in the squad. Kwagga and Wiese are not up for it. The two decent alternatives are Dan du Preez, who Rassie has sent home and Marcel Coetzee, not in squad. I would bring Marco at 6 for the next test and shift Kolisi to 8. It doesnt matter where he doesnt perform, and he will be in the XV anyway. Also bring in Cobus instead of herschel and Fassi instead of Elton, Willemse can cover 10. At least that gives us some xfactor. Start with Lood and let him empty his tank before Mostert or Rensburg can take over. Actually clueless about the front row.

01. Nche
02. Bongi
03. Trevor
04. Eben
05. Lood
06. Van Staden
07. PSdT
08. Kolisi
09. Faf
10. Pollard
11. Mapimpi
12. De Allende
13. Am
14. Kolbe
15. Willie

16. Kitshoff
17. Marx
18. Malherbe
19. Janse v Rensburg
20. Mostert
21. Cobus
22. Fassi
23. Willemse

[Uncle fester]

Saffers gameplan/selection makes no sense.

If you're going to kick the leather off the ball, you should be going with the heaviest pack you can manage. Instead, you picked a light mobile pack more suited to running the ball.

[JM2K6]

The laws, or the way they are applied for this sort of tackle are a bit silly.

A lot of refs would say he lands on his elbow so it is penalty only. A lot would say yellow. I'd have given a yellow but many refs wouldn't.

If he hadn't stuck his elbow out he'd have landed on his shoulder or head and it would have been a card.

Whether he sticks his elbow out or anything else us of no consequence. As soon as he is beyond horizontal it's a card. Noting that Willie had to leave the field.

No, there's a system for determining whether it's a card.

Anyway, elbow or no elbow, he's always going to land on his arm and shoulder there. It's far from the most dangerous tip tackle I've seen.

[Blackmac]

The laws, or the way they are applied for this sort of tackle are a bit silly.

A lot of refs would say he lands on his elbow so it is penalty only. A lot would say yellow. I'd have given a yellow but many refs wouldn't.

If he hadn't stuck his elbow out he'd have landed on his shoulder or head and it would have been a card.

Whether he sticks his elbow out or anything else us of no consequence. As soon as he is beyond horizontal it's a card. Noting that Willie had to leave the field.

No, there's a system for determining whether it's a card.

Anyway, elbow or no elbow, he's always going to land on his arm and shoulder there. It's far from the most dangerous tip tackle I've seen.

Spot on. Not a clever tackle by Watson but anyone saying that is a red is talking absolute shite. I do like how Willie falls face down but immediately grabs the back of his head. Prick.

[sorCrer]

The laws, or the way they are applied for this sort of tackle are a bit silly.

A lot of refs would say he lands on his elbow so it is penalty only. A lot would say yellow. I'd have given a yellow but many refs wouldn't.

If he hadn't stuck his elbow out he'd have landed on his shoulder or head and it would have been a card.

Whether he sticks his elbow out or anything else us of no consequence. As soon as he is beyond horizontal it's a card. Noting that Willie had to leave the field.

No, there's a system for determining whether it's a card.

Anyway, elbow or no elbow, he's always going to land on his arm and shoulder there. It's far from the most dangerous tip tackle I've seen.

Law 9 18: A player must not lift an opponent off the ground and drop or drive that player so that their head and/or upper body make contact with the ground.

[SaintK]

Whether he sticks his elbow out or anything else us of no consequence. As soon as he is beyond horizontal it's a card. Noting that Willie had to leave the field.

No, there's a system for determining whether it's a card.

Anyway, elbow or no elbow, he's always going to land on his arm and shoulder there. It's far from the most dangerous tip tackle I've seen.

Spot on. Not a clever tackle by Watson but anyone saying that is a red is talking absolute shite. I do like how Willie falls face down but immediately grabs the back of his head. Prick.

Conceensus of the folks I was sitting with that would have been at least a yellow in the Prem or Champions Cup.
REckon they would have gone over the mitigation with a fine tooth comb before deciding red or yellow.

[_Os_]

Saffers gameplan/selection makes no sense.

If you're going to kick the leather off the ball, you should be going with the heaviest pack you can manage. Instead, you picked a light mobile pack more suited to running the ball.

Also you start Morne Steyn and Frans Steyn, if you're going to kick everything.

To me it looks like the idea was to try and kick it in behind into space when it was on to do that, but otherwise use a possession based game (I'm not saying the possession would be used to run it from everywhere Barbarians style). Then somehow that's ended up being "kick as the primary attacking option", and it looks like the idea with the pack selection is if you have faster players (like Smith at eightman) they can get around the park more and help contest/pressure after the Lions catch. If the players are slow it means you can't kick as deep (because the players aren't fast enough to get to a deeper kick), the idea seems to be to kick deep with enough chasers/pressure to generate momentum/force errors.

I think the Boks have got the balance wrong, and forgot that you need to kick sometimes and hold the ball other times to keep the opposition defence honest.

[handyman]

It is a big problem that we don't have a decent 8 in the squad. Kwagga and Wiese are not up for it. The two decent alternatives are Dan du Preez, who Rassie has sent home and Marcel Coetzee, not in squad. I would bring Marco at 6 for the next test and shift Kolisi to 8. It doesnt matter where he doesnt perform, and he will be in the XV anyway. Also bring in Cobus instead of herschel and Fassi instead of Elton, Willemse can cover 10. At least that gives us some xfactor. Start with Lood and let him empty his tank before Mostert or Rensburg can take over. Actually clueless about the front row.

01. Nche
02. Bongi
03. Trevor
04. Eben
05. Lood
06. Van Staden
07. PSdT
08. Kolisi
09. Faf
10. Pollard
11. Mapimpi
12. De Allende
13. Am
14. Kolbe
15. Willie

16. Kitshoff
17. Marx
18. Malherbe
19. Janse v Rensburg
20. Mostert
21. Cobus
22. Fassi
23. Willemse

Great post. Only thing I would change is a SOS to Marcel Coetzee for the bench in place of Janse van Rensburg.

[Yr Alban]

Thought he was ineffectual on attack and unconvincing under the high ball. Even the much shorter Cheslin Kolbe outjumped him at times - thought that would've been one of VDM's strengths. Not sure how anyone could rate him much higher than a charitable 5/10 tbh. Time to give one of the other blokes a crack.

You must have been watching a different game. The guy I was watching got very little service, but did the best he could with what came his way. Had both hands to a high ball with the try line gaping in the 2nd minute, and made an excellent break in the 2nd half where he would have been in if he hadn’t slipped (though it would have been pulled back for an earlier knock-on anyway). He didn’t screw up under the high ball any more than anyone else did -including the ‘bomb defuser’ Liam Williams. But hey, it’s all about opinions.

Sorry, but that's hardly a ringing endorsement of his performance. He was fair to middling, at best.

But Planet Rugby rated him 8 and Rugby Pass 8.5 so what do I know.

I’d have given him 7 - wasn’t given much to do, did what he did get OK. No more than that. I just thought 5 was too harsh.

[Big D]

Whether he sticks his elbow out or anything else us of no consequence. As soon as he is beyond horizontal it's a card. Noting that Willie had to leave the field.

No, there's a system for determining whether it's a card.

Anyway, elbow or no elbow, he's always going to land on his arm and shoulder there. It's far from the most dangerous tip tackle I've seen.

Law 9 18: A player must not lift an opponent off the ground and drop or drive that player so that their head and/or upper body make contact with the ground.

"A player who commits foul play must either be cautioned or temporarily suspended or sent off"

The referee is under no obligation to card him. The fact he lands on his elbow makes it less severe than head/neck (definite red), shoulder (yellow), back/side/arms are often at refs discretion.

I'd have given a yellow but the ref is under no obligation to card him.

[Yr Alban]

No, there's a system for determining whether it's a card.

Anyway, elbow or no elbow, he's always going to land on his arm and shoulder there. It's far from the most dangerous tip tackle I've seen.

Law 9 18: A player must not lift an opponent off the ground and drop or drive that player so that their head and/or upper body make contact with the ground.

"A player who commits foul play must either be cautioned or temporarily suspended or sent off"

The referee is under no obligation to card him. The fact he lands on his elbow makes it less severe than head/neck (definite red), shoulder (yellow), back/side/arms are often at refs discretion.

I'd have given a yellow but the ref is under no obligation to card him.

I think we can all agree that it was a stupid thing to do, and quite out of character for Mish. I reckon he came off the bench with a point to prove, and got the red mist. And probably cost himself a start in the process.

[JM2K6]

Whether he sticks his elbow out or anything else us of no consequence. As soon as he is beyond horizontal it's a card. Noting that Willie had to leave the field.

No, there's a system for determining whether it's a card.

Anyway, elbow or no elbow, he's always going to land on his arm and shoulder there. It's far from the most dangerous tip tackle I've seen.

Law 9 18: A player must not lift an opponent off the ground and drop or drive that player so that their head and/or upper body make contact with the ground.

Thank you for quoting the law that says it was not a legal tackle, a thing that is agreed in this thread by literally fucking everyone

[Dinsdale Piranha]

If both Harlequins 1st choice props had started the game yesterday then both sides would have been better off.

[SaintK]

If both Harlequins 1st choice props had started the game yesterday then both sides would have been better off.

Now that would have been tasty as they'd have been proppingt against each other!!